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(19-Jan-2003 at 21:27)


Quote:
(Originally posted by stoffi)

One word:


LOL
If you're going to post such nonsense like that which doesn't even contribute to the discussion, but rather to mock someone, do it over PM.

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#1561  
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(Posted as Lord Hawk1)
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(19-Jan-2003 at 21:29)
As far as evolution, I am not sure I am a big fan of it myself. As far as creation, that was too long ago for any human to possibly comprehend what god could have possibly meant by it all.

I do belive, to an extent, the punctuated equillibrium theory. The idea of punctuated equillibrium is not gradual evolution, but that when something evolved, it did it all at once, it didn't do it slooowly and gradually. If you look at huge gaps in fossle records, you will see that this is a fairly good explaination.

As far as us being from a basic species, I am not totally sure. I think that we could have been made from several base simple creatures, assuming it is all true. I don't believe we all are relatives of bony fish or jellyfish ro anything like that.

I am a christan< i know, and I DO know that evolution is true to an extent, but to say it is all true since the beginnings of this earth would be very ignorant.
#1562  
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(19-Jan-2003 at 23:57)
Man I hate adding to these arguements, I only feel satisfied when everyone agrees with me, and in this instance is impossible!

Well incase these points crop up ill say some things again:

1- Carbon dating is accurate, the rate of decay is the variable used to determine the age of the object in question.

2- The earth has not always had Oxygen on it, like other planets it was acidic and hostile... no life from this age could live in it.

3- Impact from meteors and comets caused protiens to form and water to become available (due to fragments of matter left from the creation of the universe travelling the universe) - a pretty common belief from science minded people these days.

4- These single celled organisms used the hostile atmosphere to thrive, oxygen was the bi-product of their respatory system (cells act like plants, carbon dioxide in oxygen out)

5- This changed the atmosphere gradually and killed most of these types of organisms which allowed adaptation and other types of life to evolve.

6- The Earth settled in tectonic movement and in environment and many niches became available and the organisms adapted/evolved to fit them.

7- We came along and talked *poop* about a god because we didnt understand these concepts we believe today.

8- Godlovers take some of the bible literally unless it makes no sense then its metaphorical! Could it not all be metaphorical and made up?

9- I think science is more accurate and a better belief mainly because we can adapt or scientific beliefs but out of principle religion is static in its beliefs otherwise it falls through.... as it is doing in modern times. Also having metaphorical belierfs sounds a bit silly, ie:

Person 1: "This bit in the bible doesnt make much sense?!?!"

Person 2: "Oh dont worry the church guy said that bit is metaphorical"

P1: "What the hell does that mean"

P2: "Well mainly it makes no sense so they change its meaning and try to make it seem sensible"

P1: "That sucks"

P2: "Thats religion"

... sorry for that, just wanted to express an opinion trough an imaginary conversation :P

Im suitibly happy this will give you lot something to argue over.

I wont be replying to any, I uually make one post per topic in this sort of crap.

ps the 'facts' I pointed out is recent scientific belief... i say science IS fact, that may not be true for some of you, but its just the same as believing in God believing in science, it just doesnt sound as stupid :P
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(20-Jan-2003 at 00:17)


Quote:
(Originally posted by Crazyfool)

3- Impact from meteors and comets caused protiens to form and water to become available (due to fragments of matter left from the creation of the universe travelling the universe) - a pretty common belief from science minded people these days.

4- These single celled organisms used the hostile atmosphere to thrive, oxygen was the bi-product of their respatory system (cells act like plants, carbon dioxide in oxygen out)
That's a pretty big leap... from proteins to self-replicating proteins. Prove that and macroevolution (species evolving into different species altogether), and evolution is as good as scientific law.

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(Posted as Andruil)
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(20-Jan-2003 at 01:05)


to quote superintendant chalmers from the simpsons:

Quote:
"Prayer has no place in the public schools, just like facts have no place in organized religion"
#1565  
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(20-Jan-2003 at 01:17)
From what ive read from the bible, i dont think the flood was covering the world for anywhere long enough for significant coral to grow on mountain tops...corel takes quite a while to grow. Im sure we all know how very basically how plate tectonics work, and how the himalayas are still growing, so i won't bother explaining that
#1566  
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(20-Jan-2003 at 01:20)


This is an interesting topic but I'm really tired of watching it go through the same exact subjects. Dig through the pages and you can find answers that nobody disputed. For instance, I posted why macro-evolution is exactly the same as micro evolution, yet people keep on saying that they're not. I understand some of you weren't here for the whole thread but you should probably look back at the largest posts in the thread, those usually contain the undisputed answers.

*Pant pant* I need to breath during those rants. *Pant pant*

My name is spelled wrong on purpose.
The statement below is a lie.
The statement above is a lie.
#1567  
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(20-Jan-2003 at 01:40)
I have spent my whole life debating this question....

The truth is .... Evolution is a joke..

C'mon you pitiful irresponsible cop outs....
The problem is people dont want to be obliged to anyone and they would like to think we are not responsible for their actions... therefore the evolution theory suits you all bexause it makes the whole thing seem like "just a fluke".

How ridiculous...
In the Beginning..." all the mass in this "Barren" universe comes together due to forces of Nature(which by the way shouldn't exist yet according to evolution) then the random gravity factor causes everything to explode out into a universe of life and cohabitation and Birds and flowers and food and food-consumers and life and love and beauty and mornings and nights....

OH Yeah!!! What a cop-out...

such a ridiculous arguement but due to the independent need for glory or lack of responsibility, people would like to believe this when "FACTS" actually show that when masses of this force actually do compress due to gravity... they create higher levels of gravity... even to the point where gravity turns into black holes.... So in fact... the Big Bang theory is a joke to be considered by naive children..
Because we know when mass and gravity increase to these levels "NOTHING" not even light can escape....

There is proof that Creation occured...
We are in fact all responsible to a creator... and he will one day judge each and every one of us...

Wheres the proof?????????
You poor blind fools....... open your minds, then open your hearts and eyes!!!

Think about the act of life. 2 seperate sexes of the same race come together, they share their lives and love... then they share their seeds.... a life begins.... then it grows like a miracle inside 1 of the members.. while it grows... without the "Mother" even realising... her body donates every imaginable chemical and element needed even causing cravings when something is needed. Eyes form... A brain is already programmed with rules for survival.. A body to provide interaction and sensation grows.. A memory (allready containing basic rules) starts to swell and absorb information, then it begins to digest and collate these new learnings.... Eyes convert rays of light(think about that!!!!) into the ability to distinguish ones surroundings.....


OK.. Now I know this may not be PROOF for most of you.... but there it is... If you study that previous paragraph the answer ti life lies in there..... Not that I am eloquent enough to convince you all immediately.... but all things have a reason.... And if you really look at the miracle of life and then ask why?, you will begin to love and respect the being who created all of these things....

I mean to this day man cannot even create a self-sustaining machine.... And yet we live in the middle of the greatest machine ever known to man or any other race.

A planet with the ability to cater for and care for a race of people put here by a creator, even tho they have turned their backs to him....

Why!!!

I should leave you to ponder this thought by yourselves....

But I will trust that you all who care enough to read this thread will ponder these words....
"Humans are put on this planet to learn..... all of our senses are designed to allow access to every kind of information....
Our bodies receive and consume information... we store it permanently and we recall it as it helps us to better understand future events....
This is the responsibility of the Human... this is the reason you are all here.....To learn about the need for love and respect..... to learn the fruitlessness of greed and arrogance...Yet so many of us choose to pretend that things are all "just a fluke"

I will return here and put many arguements forward to this discussion... there is a lot of proof that this uuniverse is not a "fluke".. You just have to start accepting the facts and being genuine in your search for wisdom....

Remember you are a spirit and your body is a piece of meat!!
I for one know that my spirit will live on long after this piece of meat ceases to function.....
#1568  
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(20-Jan-2003 at 01:51)


Sorry if this has already been picked up by somebdoy of a quick wit, but I noticed this and I thought I would straighten it out.

Quote:
Solid water is more dense than liquid water
I know this is slightly off topic, but solid water is NOT MORE DENSE than liquid water. We spent a whole unit in grade 10 chemistry learning about water being the only substance that occurs in nature that becomes less dense, the colder it gets. Its why ice cubes float, rather than sink (if they're solid anyway), and why when lakes freeze over, they freeze on the top first.

Anywho, back on topic.

All this talk of Creation vs. Evolution gave me an idea. Why not set up a computer-aided program that moniters several species over the period of a millenia. Data taken from this kind of program could prove or disprove that evolution/adaptation/general-change does indeed happen.

--Knowledge is Power, Hide it Well.
#1569  
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(20-Jan-2003 at 01:54)
creation is a belief that is all realy wait it is DEVINE CREATION

the reason evolution is always changing is due to the gaining of new technology but u will notice that new theorys will arise
#1570  
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(20-Jan-2003 at 02:34)
[quote](Originally posted by none)

I have spent my whole life debating this question....

The truth is .... Evolution is a joke..

Quote:

C'mon you pitiful irresponsible cop outs....
The problem is people dont want to be obliged to anyone and they would like to think we are not responsible for their actions... therefore the evolution theory suits you all bexause it makes the whole thing seem like "just a fluke".

How ridiculous...
In the Beginning..." all the mass in this "Barren" universe comes together due to forces of Nature(which by the way shouldn't exist yet according to evolution) then the random gravity factor causes everything to explode out into a universe of life and cohabitation and Birds and flowers and food and food-consumers and life and love and beauty and mornings and nights....

OH Yeah!!! What a cop-out...
LOL

If you are going to bash evolution, at least get the facts straight. It's not gravity that created birds and flowers. They evolved from a series of beings starting from a single celled organism.

As for the big bang, gravity is not random. Especially when it comes to a ball of gas, which has no gravity associated with it.

Quote:
such a ridiculous arguement but due to the independent need for glory or lack of responsibility, people would like to believe this when "FACTS" actually show that when masses of this force actually do compress due to gravity... they create higher levels of gravity... even to the point where gravity turns into black holes.... So in fact... the Big Bang theory is a joke to be considered by naive children..
Because we know when mass and gravity increase to these levels "NOTHING" not even light can escape....

There is proof that Creation occured...
We are in fact all responsible to a creator... and he will one day judge each and every one of us...

Wheres the proof?????????
You poor blind fools....... open your minds, then open your hearts and eyes!!!
If you truly believe this, you are quite a stupid person. How the hell can you call people who believe in evolution people who want an independant need for glory? This post makes YOU the one who is looking like the egotistical closed minded person you are calling the evolutionist.

And how the fuck can you call the big bang a joke to be considered by naive children? I hardly think our top scientists are naive children, rather, YOU are the child here, calling evolution a tool for obtaining glory.

And if I am not mistaken, isn't your "creator" supposed to NOT judge its subjects?

Quote:
Think about the act of life. 2 seperate sexes of the same race come together, they share their lives and love... then they share their seeds.... a life begins.... then it grows like a miracle inside 1 of the members.. while it grows... without the "Mother" even realising... her body donates every imaginable chemical and element needed even causing cravings when something is needed. Eyes form... A brain is already programmed with rules for survival.. A body to provide interaction and sensation grows.. A memory (allready containing basic rules) starts to swell and absorb information, then it begins to digest and collate these new learnings.... Eyes convert rays of light(think about that!!!!) into the ability to distinguish ones surroundings.....

OK.. Now I know this may not be PROOF for most of you.... but there it is... If you study that previous paragraph the answer ti life lies in there..... Not that I am eloquent enough to convince you all immediately.... but all things have a reason.... And if you really look at the miracle of life and then ask why?, you will begin to love and respect the being who created all of these things....

I mean to this day man cannot even create a self-sustaining machine.... And yet we live in the middle of the greatest machine ever known to man or any other race.

A planet with the ability to cater for and care for a race of people put here by a creator, even tho they have turned their backs to him....
Wow, you actually think that people will believe and follow your "creator" when thinking about birth, you are wrong. Why are we here? I don't have the answer to that, and I'm not sure there is one. I don't think that thinking about child birth will accomplish coming up with the right answer. Oh that's right, you think that flowers came on the earth from gravity, and so you do believe in things that are wrong.

And what do you mean by our race turning our backs on your "creator"? Are you saying this because not everyone believe in it? Well, if some of us don't believe in it, we have no one to turn our backs against, so we obviously don't give a flying fuck.

Quote:
Why!!!

I should leave you to ponder this thought by yourselves....

But I will trust that you all who care enough to read this thread will ponder these words....
"Humans are put on this planet to learn..... all of our senses are designed to allow access to every kind of information....
Our bodies receive and consume information... we store it permanently and we recall it as it helps us to better understand future events....
This is the responsibility of the Human... this is the reason you are all here.....To learn about the need for love and respect..... to learn the fruitlessness of greed and arrogance...Yet so many of us choose to pretend that things are all "just a fluke"

I will return here and put many arguements forward to this discussion... there is a lot of proof that this uuniverse is not a "fluke".. You just have to start accepting the facts and being genuine in your search for wisdom....

Remember you are a spirit and your body is a piece of meat!!
I for one know that my spirit will live on long after this piece of meat ceases to function.....
You really need to get over this fluke thing. I don't even know where you are getting that from. Any evolutionist will never say the formation of the universe was a fluke. It happened by chance, perhaps, but was not a fluke. Evolution is not a fluke, it is change over time.

Also, please explain to me what a spirit is. Is it personality, is it something that gives motion and function to our bodies? Hey, guess what actually does it? It's called the brain. Your spirit is your brain. When you die, so does your brain, therefore, your "spirit" is dead too.

Overall, by this post, I would say you are a childish and egotistical person brainwashed by the bible to believe in this so called creator who puts things on this earth as one way and thats how it is. Go read a fucking science textbook and stop reading the bible as if it was right, because the facts simply prove the bible wrong.

Simply another American opposed to Bush
#1571  
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(20-Jan-2003 at 02:41)
Quote:
(Originally posted by Raine Zacharin)
All this talk of Creation vs. Evolution gave me an idea. Why not set up a computer-aided program that moniters several species over the period of a millenia. Data taken from this kind of program could prove or disprove that evolution/adaptation/general-change does indeed happen.
Or you could:

1) Read up on the work Peter and Rosemary Grant did on the galapagos, studying finches. I recommend the book Beak of the Finch. Evolution clearly is happening on the galapagos.

2) Use common sense to realize if, for example, half of a population is immune to a particular virus, and half are not. Let's say this virus will kill a person who is infected, as some do. The half that doesnt have the immunity gets killed, and the ones that have the immunity survive. Therefore, the specie has evolved so that it is immune to this virus completely.

Simply another American opposed to Bush
#1572  
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(20-Jan-2003 at 02:58)
in order for an object such as a particles to move an outside force has to move it...this law comes from...physics...

an object not in moving will stay in the same place until an outside force moves it...am i not correct?

therefore how can a particle of gas move without a force?
therefore can u say that we evolve for apes?...if we did...it is surivival of the fittest proving that only the strong survive...but why is there people in this world willing to help 2nd born pandas?...(the mother panda doesn't care for the 2nd twin only the first).
therefore can u explain the term forgiveness or sacrifice...in survive of fittest...only the strong survive...not the weak...not the one who is willing to sacritice or forgive. can an ant forgive the grasshopper for taking the ant's food...NO....the grasshopper will become the ant's supper...hehe. but why do you forgive and sacrifice?

if (notice i said IF)the big bang was an accident...isn't the purpose of life an accident?...
if we are evolve for apes...why do they still exist...after all only the fittest lives...i dunno...throw you comments are me...i just wanna know your exuse of believe why we are top of the food chain while "our related chicken" is hiding from us...hehe
#1573  
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(20-Jan-2003 at 02:59)


Quote:
(Originally posted by none)

I have spent my whole life debating this question....

The truth is .... Evolution is a joke..

C'mon you pitiful irresponsible cop outs....
What proof do you have to support your notion that the belief in evolution causes a person to be pitiful and irresponsible?
Quote:
The problem is people dont want to be obliged to anyone and they would like to think we are not responsible for their actions... therefore the evolution theory suits you all bexause it makes the whole thing seem like "just a fluke".
Evolution doesn't state that we are not responsible for our actions, but rather we are the result of our actions. Where we live, how we live, and what we do determine the outcome of evolution.
Quote:
How ridiculous...
In the Beginning..." all the mass in this "Barren" universe comes together due to forces of Nature(which by the way shouldn't exist yet according to evolution) then the random gravity factor causes everything to explode out into a universe of life and cohabitation and Birds and flowers and food and food-consumers and life and love and beauty and mornings and nights....
a) Get your facts straight. You're describing a big-bang type situation, in which you aren't even close to
b) Those forces did exist according to the big bang
c) Yes, the bang resulted in what we see today, but after millions of years of development
Quote:
OH Yeah!!! What a cop-out...

such a ridiculous arguement but due to the independent need for glory or lack of responsibility, people would like to believe this when "FACTS" actually show that when masses of this force actually do compress due to gravity... they create higher levels of gravity... even to the point where gravity turns into black holes.... So in fact... the Big Bang theory is a joke to be considered by naive children..
Because we know when mass and gravity increase to these levels "NOTHING" not even light can escape....
Actually, the compression of mass only comes to a black hole because there's no energy so the mass collapses. In the theroy of the big bang, the mass compreses then inflates due to an expansion of energy. Research what you argue about before you post it.
Quote:
There is proof that Creation occured...
We are in fact all responsible to a creator... and he will one day judge each and every one of us...
So why can't creation and evolution co-exist?

In brightest day, in blackest night, No evil shall escape my sight.
Let those who worship evil's might, Beware my power, Green Lantern's Light
Slave of Justara
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#1574  
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(20-Jan-2003 at 03:14)
Quote:
(Originally posted by AznBlade)

So why can't creation and evolution co-exist?
Because creation didnt happen.

Quote:
if (notice i said IF)the big bang was an accident...isn't the purpose of life an accident?...
if we are evolve for apes...why do they still exist...after all only the fittest lives...i dunno...throw you comments are me...i just wanna know your exuse of believe why we are top of the food chain while "our related chicken" is hiding from us...hehe
What might good for apes (or anything else for that matter) in one area might not be the case for apes in another place. Therefore, these apes where stresses are occurring have to change in order to survive. Simple as that. That's why we have apes and humans.

Simply another American opposed to Bush

Last edited by Creoena, 20-Jan-2003 at 03:15.
#1575  
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(20-Jan-2003 at 04:02)
Quote:
(Originally posted by Lord Hawk1)

As far as evolution, I am not sure I am a big fan of it myself. As far as creation, that was too long ago for any human to possibly comprehend what god could have possibly meant by it all.

I do belive, to an extent, the punctuated equillibrium theory. The idea of punctuated equillibrium is not gradual evolution, but that when something evolved, it did it all at once, it didn't do it slooowly and gradually. If you look at huge gaps in fossle records, you will see that this is a fairly good explaination.

As far as us being from a basic species, I am not totally sure. I think that we could have been made from several base simple creatures, assuming it is all true. I don't believe we all are relatives of bony fish or jellyfish ro anything like that.

I am a christan< i know, and I DO know that evolution is true to an extent, but to say it is all true since the beginnings of this earth would be very ignorant.
Punctuated equilibrium probably has happened, perhaps with something like a disease wiping out everything that wasn't immune to it, but something like a specie immediately evolving into another probably hasn't happened.

Every being on land was evolved from something in the water, because beings went from the water to land. It was started actually before fish, but nonetheless every non-plant specie probably came from some sort of fish, as is evident from the gills many species form during development that goes away before the specie is born/hatched.

Simply another American opposed to Bush
#1576  
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(20-Jan-2003 at 04:09)


Quote:
(Originally posted by Raine Zacharin)





I know this is slightly off topic, but solid water is NOT MORE DENSE than liquid water. We spent a whole unit in grade 10 chemistry learning about water being the only substance that occurs in nature that becomes less dense, the colder it gets. Its why ice cubes float, rather than sink (if they're solid anyway), and why when lakes freeze over, they freeze on the top first.

Anywho, back on topic.
Thanks for correcting me on that. But still, I think that there is plenty.

If it works for them, they will use it.
If it doesn't work for them, they may still use it.
#1577  
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(20-Jan-2003 at 05:42)
Quote:
therefore can u explain the term forgiveness or sacrifice...in survive of fittest...only the strong survive...
If they are weaknesses, you will probably find that if an alien race with no morality decides to attack mankind, they may well wipe us out.
#1578  
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(20-Jan-2003 at 08:14)


For all you atheists out there:

I AM YOUR GOD.

The preceeding message was for entertainment purposes only.

If it works for them, they will use it.
If it doesn't work for them, they may still use it.
#1579  
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(20-Jan-2003 at 08:23)


technically, all evolutionists r racists.

if u r offended by that, then u need to re-examine ur beliefs

according to evolution, shouldnt ONE species be more dominate than another? so either blacks r better than whites or whites r better than blacks. or maybe its the AZNs who r the best. wait a second! isnt this racism? yes it is. be4 u tell me with a straight face that u r an evolutionist and not a racist, lets look at wat racism means:
Quote:
rac∑ism
n. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

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