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(16-May-2006 at 15:55)


Why do some people wish to live in olden times ?

Why do some people wish to live in olden times ?

Last sunday, my wife became ill. Very ill. So ill in fact we had to stop our journey back from her parents and call an ambulance. She was taken to hospital and needed major surgery from the most experienced doctors in that hospital (several consultants were involved). She is back home with me now and on the mend. If we lived in olden times, probably even just 100 years ago - 9 days after it started she would be either close to death or dead due to the problem, having experienced terrible pains for the remainder of her life.

Why do people wish for some 'golden' past ? Do these people not realise how easy death came before modern medicine ? How many friends & loved ones would have died in terrible pain from easily preventable problems / disease ? How poor the food was & how complete the social segreation that prevailed ?

The ways of the past are in the past because what we have now is better. Is there anyone here whom longs to live in the past ?

This is what every PvP argument boils down to:
Dear Devs:
Rock is overpowered, please nerf. Paper is fine.
Yours, Scissors
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(Posted as Belili)
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(16-May-2006 at 16:10)


Well, I feel the same way sometimes... wanting a more simple life. Yes it comes with less safety, less luxury, etc... but it also comes with less worry.

The "old" times don't refer to surfdom... but rather before the rush rush rush attitude of the industrial revolution.

With that said, I think our perception of the "old" times is a bit off. We think of it as less work and less stress... but really families had to work so much harder, work 50-60 hour work weeks, and live day to day on food and shelter.

If we lived as the rich in olden times, yea that would be nice... but that's less than 1% of the population... most of America, let alone the rest of the world, lived in poverty.

I think our perception is based on the beleif that the world is progressivly getting worse.

Belili : Sexy :: Naz : Warning Points
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(16-May-2006 at 16:12)


Re: Why do some people wish to live in olden times ?

Originally Posted by Belili:
Well, I feel the same way sometimes... wanting a more simple life. Yes it comes with less safety, less luxury, etc... but it also comes with less worry.
I'm pretty sure people used to have alot to worry about, we're just better at finding more petty stuff to worry about.
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(16-May-2006 at 16:20)


Firstly, sorry to hear about your wife. Hope she recovers without any hitches and she's up and going about soon.

Alot of people wish to live in the "golden past" as u put it because it was a time of supposed chivilry and honor. There was non of the crap of today;, no getting shot to death, no obesity, no media, NON of the stuff of today. You have to understand that when people say i wish i was in the past, they're not really thinking about all the crappy sides of it. They don't think about the disease and pain that existed.

i personally would like to live in the past for a certain amount of time... it'd be good to experience living and working like my ancestors... and i would love to have hands-on try at living/being a knight/squire and all that. really armor and arms.... wouldn't you honestly want to try it?
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(16-May-2006 at 16:20)


Re: Why do some people wish to live in olden times ?

Originally Posted by Belili:
Well, I feel the same way sometimes... wanting a more simple life. Yes it comes with less safety, less luxury, etc... but it also comes with less worry.

The "old" times don't refer to surfdom... but rather before the rush rush rush attitude of the industrial revolution.

With that said, I think our perception of the "old" times is a bit off. We think of it as less work and less stress... but really families had to work so much harder, work 50-60 hour work weeks, and live day to day on food and shelter.

If we lived as the rich in olden times, yea that would be nice... but that's less than 1% of the population... most of America, let alone the rest of the world, lived in poverty.

I think our perception is based on the beleif that the world is progressivly getting worse.
A well balanced post.

You are right of course, the threat of starvation always preyed on the minds of those in the past and the grinding, back breaking toil of agricultural life was one of the reasons people left the farms for the industrial revolution of the cities.

Today we live longer, healthier, work less, have time for recreational pursuits and enjoy far more luxuries than even our parents did.

From your post it seems to me what you really want want is to be rich (who dosn't !) - not live in the past.

Originally Posted by undied:
Firstly, sorry to hear about your wife. Hope she recovers without any hitches and she's up and going about soon.
Thank you - me too.

Quote:
Alot of people wish to live in the "golden past" as u put it because it was a time of supposed chivilry and honor. There was non of the crap of today;, no getting shot to death, no obesity, no media, NON of the stuff of today.
Everything you mentioned was there... even the media. Although obesity was for the rich. Starvation was for the poor.

Quote:
You have to understand that when people say i wish i was in the past, they're not really thinking about all the crappy sides of it. They don't think about the disease and pain that existed.
I know - I just think people are mad.

Quote:
i personally would like to live in the past for a certain amount of time... it'd be good to experience living and working like my ancestors... and i would love to have hands-on try at living/being a knight/squire and all that. really armor and arms.... wouldn't you honestly want to try it?
Not at all - was very hard work, with the distinct possabilty of slow death from nasty wounds. Not to mention the politics you had to be involved in if part of the landed gentry or again, starving to death if you were a mercenary.

This is what every PvP argument boils down to:
Dear Devs:
Rock is overpowered, please nerf. Paper is fine.
Yours, Scissors

Last edited by Grashnak, 16-May-2006 at 16:24.
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(16-May-2006 at 16:34)


you've made me think twice about what i said and i appreciate the luxuries of today. Running water, lights, food and all...

The risks of life then over the benefits were far from equal... Suddenly, my computer chair is looking soo much more comfortable
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(16-May-2006 at 17:04)


Forgetfulness, nostalgia, glamorizing the past, and the inability to cope with a rapidly changing world, but also past regrets, the experience of an ongoing breakdown of traditional social cohesion, and the knowledge that a luxurious, comfortable life is a mixed blessing, because we like security, but we can't stand dull routine, so we cage ourselves in to be free from the unpredictability of nature, only to be confronted by our own nature that wants to be freed from the predictability of that self-made cage.. you gotta love that clothed animal called man
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(16-May-2006 at 17:25)


This thread reminds me of something Frank Herbert said in one of his books; It is impossible to live in the future, pointless to live in the past, and difficult to live in the present.

I think people want to live in the past because they think complexity's the only cause of unhappiness. I remember having arguements with people who said that cavemen were the happiest, and that we should revert to a society similar to theirs. I love starvation, sudden death, and insane quantities of uncertainty, don't you? Besides, who wants to live past 35?
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(16-May-2006 at 17:32)


In my country, there is old preverb that goes roughly translated: "Time plates memories with gold" That means, we remember the good things and not that easily bad things. Bad seemed less worse after time and good even better. Yeah, I've noticed this myself as well. That is why I think peoples want to live in good olden days, as their memories and mind does the trick...

Generalization is rhetorics of simpletons.
"Sages learn from history... idiots learn from experience" -Fairy Tail manga
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(16-May-2006 at 17:51)


Alright... I came up with something to add.

Sometimes people are nostalgic for their own recent pasts because well, they already know that all the things they were stressing themselves out over all worked out in the end ... or alternatively they really were happier or had not yet lost some loved ones...

As for wanting to live in a time one has never experienced, well as has been said there is a certain tendency to romanticize things. I'd love to experience what life was like in certain eras and settings, but most certainly wouldn't want to be stuck there.

I grew up in the Ozark mountains area of Missouri and believe it or not, I had some good friends in a rural area that had no plumbing ... just the outhouse. I never spent the night .

Man is the only animal that blushes, or needs to.-- Mark Twain
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(Posted as TiCkLePiNkIsH)
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(16-May-2006 at 19:25)
Why do some people want to live in the past? I certainly wouldnt, esp being a woman, and having to experience childbirth. Woman and babies died from now preventable causes during labour. They had huge families, because infant mortality was high and so that the children would work and bring money into the home. Womans rights werent regarded, and marriage may have been more for necessasity than for love. Like someothers have said I think the past has been romanticised. You lived hard and died young.

Last edited by TiCkLePiNkIsH, 16-May-2006 at 19:29.
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(16-May-2006 at 19:35)


To me the longing for golden times means mainly longing for the time when things were real, men brave, women were women and everything was more simple. The world and our complex existence was more easily to be understood, cause we didnt have all this knowledge at hand.

ps. Maxkool sucks
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(Posted as Delicious Sage)
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(16-May-2006 at 19:49)


Re: Why do some people wish to live in olden times ?

Originally Posted by homppa:
To me the longing for golden times means mainly longing for the time when things were real
Things are still real, unless you're talking about CGI effects in movies, in which case...shall we go back to men in gorilla suits?

Originally Posted by homppa:
men brave,
I'd say the ratios of brave to cowardly men are about the same.

Originally Posted by homppa:
women were women
Silly, they still are! Unless they've invented an alternative to the vagina.

Originally Posted by homppa:
and everything was more simple. The world and our complex existence was more easily to be understood, cause we didnt have all this knowledge at hand.
The world has always been complex. And your idea that "things are easier to understand when we have less knowledge" isn't true. Maybe we THOUGHT we understood things, but having more information can only INCREASE our understanding.

We understand the world MUCH better than people did 50 years ago, and exponentially better than they did 100 years ago.

The less popular Sage
Really...most people forget who I am
But I was here first, damn it!

Willing to sell my soul for a Klondike Bar
#13  
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(16-May-2006 at 20:02)


Simple Days Lyrics

Here are the lyrics to a song that kind of makes me feel nostalgic.

The title is Simple Days from Babyface (Kenny Edmonds).

"I was born on the north side of a Midwestern town
There were nine of us living in a three bedroom house
Didn't have much money
But we made due
'Cause Momma worked all day long
And Daddy did too
Did all they could
Made sure we had clothes and food
Went to public schools and we
Followed public rules
We used second hand books, but oh
I didn't mind the books
Momma taught us early in life
Everybody's gotta struggle sometime

Bring back those simple times of yesterday
When a man was a man
And a friend was a friend
Bring back those simple times of yesterday
When you said what you meant
And you meant what you said

Had a friend named Bobby
Who always kept his word
We went through schoolyard fights
Had a thing for pretty girls
Didn't cost much money to
See the picture show
So we hopped the bus into town
That's where all the girlies used to go
Fifty cents would buy us popcorn for two
'Cause Bobby's girl, she worked there
And sometimes she'd break the rules
Picnics in the summer
Wouldn't wake up 'till noon
And even though Bobby's gone now
I can still hear him laugh
In the middle of June

[HOOK]

Sometimes I sit, I wonder
I reminisce, I think of all the good times
That we had in our lives
Sometimes I can't get over
How wonderful those days were
Back in our lives
Simple days for simple times

[HOOK]"

Thanks to your thread, I can't get it out of mind today. A year or so ago I got news of a childhood friend's death in a car accident and I listened to it like 10 times in a row while I cried in my beer and just, well, remembered. Anyhow... especially as you get older there is a bit of a longing for, as McCartney wrote, Yesterday, but I don't think anyone actually wants to throw away all the positive advances made in society or anything.

Man is the only animal that blushes, or needs to.-- Mark Twain
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(16-May-2006 at 21:22)


Re: Why do some people wish to live in olden times ?

Originally Posted by Delicious Sage:
Things are still real, unless you're talking about CGI effects in movies, in which case...shall we go back to men in gorilla suits?



I'd say the ratios of brave to cowardly men are about the same.



Silly, they still are! Unless they've invented an alternative to the vagina.



The world has always been complex. And your idea that "things are easier to understand when we have less knowledge" isn't true. Maybe we THOUGHT we understood things, but having more information can only INCREASE our understanding.

We understand the world MUCH better than people did 50 years ago, and exponentially better than they did 100 years ago.

what i ment was to describe how i've observed what ppl in general think of the golden times, not what i think. Sarcasm. Though i partly agree with "them"

:P

ps. Maxkool sucks
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(Posted as Falis4)
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(16-May-2006 at 23:48)


Quote:
The ways of the past are in the past because what we have now is better. Is there anyone here whom longs to live in the past ?
You have no evidence that the nowadays is better than the past (and vice versa to be honest). All your examples are disputable. That you could die easier isnt really an argument if you now live longer but dont like how you are living! Rather live a short but liveable life than being an undead methusalem. Medicine got better but our highly progressed lifestyle also brings health risks and especially whats so destructive is that nowadays lifestyle dehumanises one.
What i mean with dehumanise is that kapitalism sees man as commodity and that sucks! Humans are a commodity you get from the labor market in order to get a surplus value out of your invested money. A worker cant indentify himself with his work but in elder times one could, you d be a dirty farmer but at the end of the day you would be a happy human being. Maybe thats what people miss and what makes pre-modern times so attractive. Its the 'adventure' of being a human again, not a robot in the kapitalistic machinery.

Now if i had the chance to go back to my golden age id go back to the Abbasid Caliphate in Bagdad prior its destruction. Umm, id do it just for the adventure and to see how is was at that time even if my thinking is only 10% congruent to the reality.

Haha, you know what? The desire for the golden age is just the immortal wish to improve oneself or see his society improve. Every one has it even you, dont deny it

[Holy Qur'an (Surah Al-Furqan; the Criterion]
Blessed is He who sent down the criterion to His servant, that it may be an admonition to all creatures (25:1)
But the misbelievers say: "Naught is this but a lie which he has forged [...] (25:4)
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(17-May-2006 at 00:11)


Quote:
Maybe we THOUGHT we understood things, but having more information can only INCREASE our understanding.
pah you are obvisley young.

The reason people like the pass was that things were simple.
the reason for this is that there was less knowledge. so there were either no answers or undesputed sensible answers.

then along came stuff like science that discovered knowledge.
the problem now accors. the scientific knowledge isnt always sensible and creates more questions and contridicts accepted knowledge EG the bible.
it opens options that are causes debates that cant be easily answered.(ie IVF)
Dispersal of social groups were mentioned, this brings groups together that dont see eye-to-eye so iether you have to adjust your ideas or conflict.
as the saying goes"in a comprimise there are no winners".

There is also an american problem.
The idea that everybody can make it and everyone who does not is a failure and loser.
But if some make it then BY DEFERNITION some must fail.
american socity (classless socity) does not define a position for these people.
Old socitys were full off a defined places. of course being "richer" now then then, they thnik they would be higher up then.

if our labourers party is called Labour, the most conserivtive party are called Conserivitives, and the liberal party called the Liberal Domocrats why aren't the BNP called the English Racist Party.
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(Posted as Delicious Sage)
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(17-May-2006 at 01:37)


Quote:
the scientific knowledge isnt always sensible and creates more questions and contridicts accepted knowledge EG the bible.
Yeah, I hear those pesky scientists are saying the EARTH revolves around the SUN!

That's just not sensible.

Less knowledge doesn't make the "answers" more sensible. It makes them guesses. Most often, wrong guesses.

The ancient greeks had very little knowledge about the way the world worked, so they attributed lightning to the gods. The changing of the seasons: the gods. Bad growing seasons: the gods.

Is this sensible? More information allows us to get the truth, or closer to the truth, and better understand the world.

The less popular Sage
Really...most people forget who I am
But I was here first, damn it!

Willing to sell my soul for a Klondike Bar
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(Posted as Party Time)
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(17-May-2006 at 02:15)


Re: Why do some people wish to live in olden times ?

Originally Posted by Grashnak:
Why do some people wish to live in olden times ?
the answer is easy. In the "olden times" the times were simplier.

Never Forget

September 11, 2001
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(17-May-2006 at 02:16)


Re: Why do some people wish to live in olden times ?

Originally Posted by Delicious Sage:
More information allows us to get the truth, or closer to the truth, and better understand the world.
That's a good argument as to how we are more informed. Being informed doesn't necessarily make us better people. One could argue that more useless information just makes for more distracted masses...

Man is the only animal that blushes, or needs to.-- Mark Twain
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