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-   -   Do you believe in God? (https://forums.utopiatemple.com/showthread.php?t=18887)

asunti2506 03-Jan-2003 05:05

Quote:

(Originally posted by shadeslinger)

You say the bible is flawed. I have yet to see anyone post anything specific from the bible that is "flawed". There are absolutely no flaws or errors in the bible that could possibly lead to the conclusion that: 1) God does not exist
2)Bible teachings are false.
I find it all so very interesting that people "seemingly" find "flaws" or "Contradictions" in the bible and instead of trying to study further to test their hypothesis, arbitrarily dismiss the entire work based on a few shallowly researched self declared flaws.
Oh, c'mon, I can recall at least 4 examples from the top of my head. Different accounts of Genesis, Jesus' last words, implying that PI = 3 and that the Earth is flat. Take a look at http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra.html which lists over 100 contradictions.

toasted 03-Jan-2003 06:25

There are many contradicitions because that fiction book was written by man at that time! It's a storybook with lots of stories and morals. I beleive we can find "fairy-tale collection" books at any respectable book retailer. Of course, at that time, people were more violent so the thought of cutting someone's head off was not a big shock to kids (so it CAN be a kid's story book). Or maybe a short story book for adults.

frezzy 03-Jan-2003 06:34

Quote:

(Originally posted by Digi Kid Izzy)
Basically, your one of those fanatics that considers atheist from the pits of hell. It's okay, I enjoy watching brainwashed foolsl ike yourself.
=) Precisely what I say in my previous thread. =) We'll see who enters Hell. =) At least you are more prepared to enter than me. =) Enjoy your furnace of fire. Oh, When you see Satan, do remember to tell him that FreZzy's Laughing.

Little Kid Izzy 03-Jan-2003 06:48

Quote:

(Originally posted by frezzy)

=) Precisely what I say in my previous thread. =) We'll see who enters Hell. =) At least you are more prepared to enter than me. =) Enjoy your furnace of fire. Oh, When you see Satan, do remember to tell him that FreZzy's Laughing.
Why should I fear something that I don't believe even exists? I mean, look at yourself, you seem to believe you are right, and without any evidence. If I see Satan, I'll ask him if I can join him in the destruction of Heaven, if it exists.

If a lot of these churchies are right, I might still go to heaven even if I don't believe in it if I do awesome in life. So, oh well. I guess that's life.

And there's still no proof of the afterlife

nutty 03-Jan-2003 07:06

Quote:

(Originally posted by Digi Kid Izzy)

Why should I fear something that I don't believe even exists?
you shouldn't fear anything you dont believe exists. i cant stand it when i hear people bragging about being good god-fearing people. since when do you brag about being a coward. now, i understand that he is all-powerful, but when is the last time you ever did anything that pissed him off enough to do anything about it. just face it, if there is a god, he isnt worried whether or not you are afraid of him or going to hell, if that exists either. personally, i think theres a god. i dont have a clue whether there is an afterlife, but i really dont care. if i live good and there is a heaven, i will go there. if i live bad and there is a hell i will go there. i might move around in a cast system. i dont really care. all i know is real is my life and the world i live in now. whatever anybody wants to believe is fine with me as long as they dont force it on me and as long as it doesnt call for harming anyone but themselves.

frezzy 03-Jan-2003 07:21

Quote:

(Originally posted by Muzzle)

I want to ask something:

Is Atheism really a Sin?

In teh bible, one of the comandments was to not worship any other. Atheists dont worship any god, so is that really a sin in christian eyes?
Hey pal, Think all you like about Atheists isn't a sin. In the Bible it says that Jesus is the way, the truth, the light. No one gets to eternity, only through Him.

Those who are really interested to know God, below is my email. Can't be bothered to read threads from those who are here simply to talk rot.

[email protected]

Little Kid Izzy 03-Jan-2003 07:32

It's funny to see people like him, I was as deluded as him. I thought believing in god would make me happy, safe, secure, hopeful. Guess what? Right before I started questioning christinaity, I was a suicidal wreck because it seemed that the all loving god hated me because I was bi.

Back up your claims, Freenzy Fanatic, with actual proof.

frezzy 03-Jan-2003 07:39

Quote:

(Originally posted by dourag0n)

From what I've experienced, MOST - NOT ALL - Christian's choose what is right and wrong and make up their own rules.

However, Athiests are usually good people who just can't see how others believe that an invisible man lives in the clouds, decides what we can and cannot do, chose TEN rules, and sends you to Hell to be tortured for all eternity if you break these rules.

And, I also wonder about this: One of the commandments states: "Thou shalt not steal." Another states: "Thou shalt not kill." Killing is basically stealing someone's life. It is also called taking a life. This is another thing that is quite odd.

Somewhere in the Bible I remember reading that God spoke to Moses in simple order words, not in parables. Meaning He simple told Moses to go to the Pharoah, and not show Moses a dove flying towards egypt or something. What I'm trying to say is that in the time of Moses, God list down clearly what to do, and what not to do. It's that's clear. Actually during the Old testiment, The 10 commandments are all that is needed to know. The rest are for the priests of the people, who were the advocates for the Israelites, to God.

frezzy 03-Jan-2003 07:51

Quote:

(Originally posted by Digi Kid Izzy)

It's funny to see people like him, I was as deluded as him. I thought believing in god would make me happy, safe, secure, hopeful. Guess what? Right before I started questioning christinaity, I was a suicidal wreck because it seemed that the all loving god hated me because I was bi.

Back up your claims, Freenzy Fanatic, with actual proof.
Don't quite understand what you are talking about. But as for the proof, =) It's there. Read the Bible. The Bible is the key to unlock doubts for those who believe, for those who trust Him. It's not really a book that tells you what to do. but tells you what is God like. I can give my best and tell you all I know. But what is important is that whether when spoken, will you take them as points to note and live with it. =) What sorts of proof you want? My life is the best proof I believe. Care for a chat, Izzy? leave me a msg in my email. =)

Little Kid Izzy 03-Jan-2003 07:56

I am tryign to say that I was a devout, zionist Christian once. Yes people, I actually believed the bible and almost everythign it said, if not everything. Quite contrary to how I am now. I thought god loved me, I thought he would take care of me. Then I find out he says I am bad because I like boys. I start questioning, I find holes, mistakes, etc. I start seeing if this god person cared for us soo much, why did he single out groups? I kept on going, searching for my own truth. And I have found it. I am hapy now, I have my best friend, who I love, my online big bros. Before, I had nothign but a bible.

Shadowkit 03-Jan-2003 10:39

I question the bible itself. It was written by several different people with bias views. Who is to known is they didn't make up the miracles so the miracles can be admire ad viewed as good. IMO the so-called miracles from the past were simple illusions and the people easily believe the tricks. Why should I take their words?

Also look at the current world. How many major religions pop up recently that hasn't splited from another faith?

Hero of Time 03-Jan-2003 16:58

ok, people. Let's stop and think here. Do you realize that it is a historical fact that many people that helped write the Bible DIED for what they wrote and believed? Why would they DIE for a lie? That would be stupid. They could have went on living if they would have denied it, and said they no longer believed. But they didn't, did they? Why would they DIE for a lie? That's just stupid. I mean, if it is all a lie that they just made up, why would they die for it? Tht wouldn't make sense. No one would take a lie to death just to trick people.

Hero of Time 03-Jan-2003 17:20

<i>And there's still no proof of the afterlife</i>

I beg to differ. First, how dare you challenge the Most High? I feel sorry for you, when the day of your death comes, it will not be a pretty one. You want proof of the afterlife? Jesus talked about it all throughout his life. He is a VERY credibable witness in my opinion, but then, if you do not believe, that is your choice to make. If you do not choose to believe the Lord, then I don't know why you would believe me right now, or anyone else. I don't even know why you would believe yourself if you deny the Lord. I don't think you do believe yourself. Deep down, if you all feel for it, you'll feel Jesus tugging at your heart. Hey, whether you believe or not, God loves you, but if you continue to let sin corrupt you...well, let's just say you aren't gonna be having fun. As Jesus said,

"You will look for me, but not find me, where I am, you cannot come"

You cannot follow Him to heaven without believing. You will look for a faith, and a god, and a lord, but you will not find Him. But now, He has given you a chance. I am not forcing my faith upon you, but I strongly suggest, repent, for the Kingdom of God will come soon! We will all be judged, and I want as few people as possible to be judged guilty.

Hero of Time 03-Jan-2003 17:21

"And there's still no proof of the afterlife"

well it won't let me put this in italics, and I don't know how to do the quote thing, so just live with that being a quote.

I beg to differ. First, how dare you challenge the Most High? I feel sorry for you, when the day of your death comes, it will not be a pretty one. You want proof of the afterlife? Jesus talked about it all throughout his life. He is a VERY credibable witness in my opinion, but then, if you do not believe, that is your choice to make. If you do not choose to believe the Lord, then I don't know why you would believe me right now, or anyone else. I don't even know why you would believe yourself if you deny the Lord. I don't think you do believe yourself. Deep down, if you all feel for it, you'll feel Jesus tugging at your heart. Hey, whether you believe or not, God loves you, but if you continue to let sin corrupt you...well, let's just say you aren't gonna be having fun. As Jesus said,

"You will look for me, but not find me, where I am, you cannot come"

You cannot follow Him to heaven without believing. You will look for a faith, and a god, and a lord, but you will not find Him. But now, He has given you a chance. I am not forcing my faith upon you, but I strongly suggest, repent, for the Kingdom of God will come soon! We will all be judged, and I want as few people as possible to be judged guilty.

Hero of Time 03-Jan-2003 17:23

heh, double post, and I can't delete, so live with it. :) lol

AznBlade 03-Jan-2003 19:23

Wow... No matter where I go, on any forum I post, in any chat I go... there's always the most contraversey in religious threads.

Quote:

i guess constant rain for forty days and the magical appearance of several trillion litres of water, 9 foot tall warriors without spinal problems and nine hundred year old men are all fairly common...
It depends on your interpretation of the bible. 40 was a number of repentance and cleansing... 40 days at sea, 40 days in the desert, etc... People were small back then, so 6ft could look like 9ft. There was also a different system of measurements, so the translations may not be very accurate. 900 can be an example of an exageration for someone who lived to say 60. People didn't live very long because of the hard labor. It can also be used in a sense of how long their names have lived in their offspring.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Quote:

Aznblade:

I have read some of those examples you have posted (used the link you have provided) and I did post a response to at least one of those examples. All of the examples I read can also be just as easily explained.
IF you look at the page the link links to, you'll see a list of responses to the contradictions and responses to those responses.
Quote:

As to the proven science statement....evolution has never been proven that is why it is called the "Theory" of evolution not the Law of evolution as the Law of Gravity. There is no hard evidence for Macro-evolution (the change of one kind of animal into another) however I will go so far as to say there is Micro-evolution (bacteria becoming resistant to antibiotics for example).
I never said evolution was a proven law. I'm talking about the validity of fossils, dating techniques, etc.

If you believe in micro-evolution, why is it so hard to believe a series of micro-evolutions going into macro-evolution?
-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-
Quote:

god is not real, he is just an item/person/whateva to cling onto in times of need, light in darkness, comfort in bad times, so on and so forth.

no such thing
I have no proof you exist. I have no proof Julius Ceasar ever existed either. Documents could be made up, and statues could've been made just because.

Now, give me 3 objective reasons why God doesn't exist.
-=-=--=-=-=-==-
Quote:

Why must people rely on the existance of a higher being to give validity to their lifes? Why must people believe that anything that gives them hope is related to god? Why can't people rely on their own inner strength instead of belieivng everything a book says?
The center of at least my religion is NOT the bible. I take it as mainly a big metaphor. Perhaps someone people's inner strength rellys in a higher presense? Not all people are the same. We all have strengths and weaknesses, differences, and similarities.
-=-=-=-=-=
Quote:

I want to ask something:

Is Atheism really a Sin?

In teh bible, one of the comandments was to not worship any other. Atheists dont worship any god, so is that really a sin in christian eyes?
Depends on your interpretation of the bible. First of all, which set of commandments from which bible publication, trasnaltion, type, and era? IF you're just going to say general commandments of Christians, then it may or may not be according to individual beliefs. I believe actions are what are ultimately judged, and religion is just sort of an honor class in life.
-=-=-=-=-=-=
Quote:

There are many contradicitions because that fiction book was written by man at that time! It's a storybook with lots of stories and morals. I beleive we can find "fairy-tale collection" books at any respectable book retailer. Of course, at that time, people were more violent so the thought of cutting someone's head off was not a big shock to kids (so it CAN be a kid's story book). Or maybe a short story book for adults.
And why is it so hard to believe it could've been a metaphor for morals and lessons that were taught to a people?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Quote:

Hey pal, Think all you like about Atheists isn't a sin. In the Bible it says that Jesus is the way, the truth, the light. No one gets to eternity, only through Him.

Those who are really interested to know God, below is my email. Can't be bothered to read threads from those who are here simply to talk rot.
Ok... what about:
a) People before Jesus
b) People who've never heard of Jesus
c) People who've had bad experiences with Christians and associate Jesus with that bad experience
d) People who have other religious parents that aren't Christian

Any way, according to you, they're screwed. Why? Because they're born or had bad experiences out of their control. Wouldn't that make God unjust?
-=-=-=-=---=
Quote:

I question the bible itself. It was written by several different people with bias views. Who is to known is they didn't make up the miracles so the miracles can be admire ad viewed as good. IMO the so-called miracles from the past were simple illusions and the people easily believe the tricks. Why should I take their words?

Also look at the current world. How many major religions pop up recently that hasn't splited from another faith
a) Miracles can be believed or not, there's no forcing on them to be a Christian or believe in God
b) Try taking the bible as a metaphor on how to live, and it'll make more sense
c) Yes, miracles can be faked... yet, if there really is a God, then they can be real. So, if you don't know if God exists, how can you be sure the miracles didn't?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Quote:

"And there's still no proof of the afterlife"
There isn't.
Quote:

well it won't let me put this in italics, and I don't know how to do the quote thing, so just live with that being a quote.

I beg to differ. First, how dare you challenge the Most High?
Why can't one ask? Isn't that the route to knowledge?
Quote:

I feel sorry for you, when the day of your death comes, it will not be a pretty one. You want proof of the afterlife? Jesus talked about it all throughout his life. He is a VERY credibable witness in my opinion,
Ok, a man talked about it. There've been thousands who've talked about earth gods and afterlives of milk and honey... wow. Not all people believe in Jesus the way you do.
Quote:

but then, if you do not believe, that is your choice to make. If you do not choose to believe the Lord, then I don't know why you would believe me right now, or anyone else.
There is no assurance anyone believes what anyone says.
Quote:

I don't even know why you would believe yourself if you deny the Lord.
Saying there's no proof doesn't mean you're denying God.
Quote:

I don't think you do believe yourself. Deep down, if you all feel for it, you'll feel Jesus tugging at your heart. Hey, whether you believe or not, God loves you, but if you continue to let sin corrupt you...well, let's just say you aren't gonna be having fun. As Jesus said,

"You will look for me, but not find me, where I am, you cannot come"
You may feel that... but then again, that may be a psyco-somatic reaction to what you've been taught all your life.
Quote:

You cannot follow Him to heaven without believing. You will look for a faith, and a god, and a lord, but you will not find Him. But now, He has given you a chance. I am not forcing my faith upon you, but I strongly suggest, repent, for the Kingdom of God will come soon! We will all be judged, and I want as few people as possible to be judged guilty.
A chance?
What about:
a) People before Jesus
b) People who've never heard of Jesus
c) People who were born under different parents and raised under a different faith (buddhism, Judaism, etc.)
d) Jews... the same people Jesus was raised from
e) People who associate bad experiences with Jesus? (victims of Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, etc.)

They're all screwed by you, and what chance do they have?

Let me guess.. you believe in Revelations. You sound like it too. Lol... I'm sure Jesus is a boy with a double bladed sword down his throat, holding 7 stars while also being a lamb with 7 heads and 7 eyes and that flies with the head of men and crowns of kings will come to bite me for 7 years for not having devout beliefs and questioning what others try to brainwash you into thinking from a source (the bible) which isn't entirely accurate and which I choose to believe isn't all literal.

Little Kid Izzy 03-Jan-2003 19:34

Quote:

(Originally posted by Hero of Time)

ok, people. Let's stop and think here. Do you realize that it is a historical fact that many people that helped write the Bible DIED for what they wrote and believed? Why would they DIE for a lie? That would be stupid. They could have went on living if they would have denied it, and said they no longer believed. But they didn't, did they? Why would they DIE for a lie? That's just stupid. I mean, if it is all a lie that they just made up, why would they die for it? Tht wouldn't make sense. No one would take a lie to death just to trick people.
No they wouldn't. Okay, so, according to these people, they heard a voice and they wrote some stuff down. Isn't that like a mental illness nowadays? Hearing voices and doing what they tell you to do?

cid12 03-Jan-2003 19:40

If someone wants to refute evolution, he might try to argue it (even thou I doubt he has enough knolege) in evolution vs creationism thread, particullary now that people have started posting more accurate profs in it.

I hope that if there is a heaven there is a hell, because if heaven is full of priests and cathequeist, I WANT TO GO TO HELL!

Little Kid Izzy 03-Jan-2003 19:41

Quote:

(Originally posted by Hero of Time)

I beg to differ. First, how dare you challenge the Most High?
I challenge your Most High because there is no proof of his existance because he causes millions to be persecuted upon.

Quote:

I feel sorry for you, when the day of your death comes, it will not be a pretty one.
I dont' fear death, I don't fear a painful death. I will stand by what I believe.
Quote:

You want proof of the afterlife? Jesus talked about it all throughout his life. He is a VERY credibable witness in my opinion, but then, if you do not believe, that is your choice to make.
What a lot of you religious people seem to do is treat us atheist like if we are lost. Don't you see that you believe in a book that there has never been proof for, or nobody has given this proof? I feel that you people are blind.

Quote:

If you do not choose to believe the Lord, then I don't know why you would believe me right now, or anyone else. I don't even know why you would believe yourself if you deny the Lord. I don't think you do believe yourself. Deep down, if you all feel for it, you'll feel Jesus tugging at your heart.
LOL, I use to be like you. I wised up. People talk about how god and jesus is in their lives, making a difference. It's called a placebo. They use it on people to make them believe something while nothing at all is happening, but their self esteem goes up and they do beter
Quote:

Hey, whether you believe or not, God loves you, but if you continue to let sin corrupt you...well, let's just say you aren't gonna be having fun.
I'm having a ball in life, and I don't believe god exists. So wouldn't that prove you wrong?
Quote:

As Jesus said,

"You will look for me, but not find me, where I am, you cannot come"

You cannot follow Him to heaven without believing. You will look for a faith, and a god, and a lord, but you will not find Him. But now, He has given you a chance. I am not forcing my faith upon you, but I strongly suggest, repent, for the Kingdom of God will come soon! We will all be judged, and I want as few people as possible to be judged guilty.
Why should I repent to someone I don't believe in. Why should I care to be judged by a being who's existance is the most controversial of all time?

I swear, I use to be like you...I pity myself.

Eskaflaner 03-Jan-2003 19:42

YES i do


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