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-   -   Do you believe in God? (https://forums.utopiatemple.com/showthread.php?t=18887)

fishbaghan 04-Jan-2003 20:54

um u all raise interesting points but get a load of this:

how was god created?

HlR0 04-Jan-2003 22:05

Quote:

Tell me something... have any of you MET Julius Ceasar? I think noy. You may have, in a dream, in your head. Historians who are so bent on forcing everyone to believe in Julius Ceasar seem like people who would end up leading a cult later in life, brainwashing everyone they meet to have their beliefs.
So you change a couple words around? This thread isn't about Julius Ceasar. And you make no sense with changing a couple phrases. Somehow, historians will end up leading a cult? They don't FORCE anything. Most Christians will force their ideas into your head until you beleive in their god.

D Man 04-Jan-2003 22:15

Quote:

(Originally posted by dourag0n)

So you change a couple words around? This thread isn't about Julius Ceasar. And you make no sense with changing a couple phrases. Somehow, historians will end up leading a cult? They don't FORCE anything.

He used Julius Ceasar to prove a point. And so far you have not shown us how his point is wrong.

By the way, I would guess that most histoians would get pretty upset and try really hard to make you beleive in him, if you denied that he ever existed :-)

Quote:


Most Christians will force their ideas into your head until you beleive in their god.
That is TOTALLY untrue.

Where on earth do you guys get these baseless stereotypes from?

HlR0 05-Jan-2003 00:40

Quote:

He used Julius Ceasar to prove a point. And so far you have not shown us how his point is wrong.

By the way, I would guess that most histoians would get pretty upset and try really hard to make you beleive in him, if you denied that he ever existed
My point was that he may not have existed. There have not been very many arguments about that. However, there is more proof of Julius Ceasar than there is of Jesus.

Quote:

Where on earth do you guys get these baseless stereotypes from?
Did I say ALL? No, I said MOST, which is not a stereotypical word. Wherever I've been, almost everyone tries to convince me and everyone who doesn't beleive in God that he is there.

D Man 05-Jan-2003 00:52

Quote:

(Originally posted by dourag0n)

Did I say ALL? No, I said MOST, which is not a stereotypical word. Wherever I've been, almost everyone tries to convince me and everyone who doesn't beleive in God that he is there.
Did I say that you said "ALL" ???

And:

"Most" can be a steatypical word.

For example, if I said that most unemployed people were lazy bums, would that be a steatype?

YES.

Where exactly do you hang out? The local Priests Pub. The Nuns swimming club? The Popes favourite Cafe? :-)

If that is really the case, and you are always being forced to beleive in God by most people, then I strongly advise you go to a normal place to hang out and have fun.

D Man 05-Jan-2003 00:54

Quote:

(Originally posted by fishbaghan)

um u all raise interesting points but get a load of this:

how was god created?
That in the end is up to beleif.

I could just as easily say,

"How can space be infinate" ???

That goes against Physics and Science as well.

HlR0 05-Jan-2003 03:36

Quote:

Where exactly do you hang out? The local Priests Pub. The Nuns swimming club? The Popes favourite Cafe?

If that is really the case, and you are always being forced to beleive in God by most people, then I strongly advise you go to a normal place to hang out and have fun.
Smart remarks are not neeeded. The places I hang out are right by where I live. Everyone around here as well as at school are religious fanatics. Thus, when I say "most," it is completely true. Nine out of ten, okay? Do you understand now? Come to just about anywhere in Florida, and you'll be swarmed by these idiots.

ton4052 05-Jan-2003 08:54

dourag0n...

like i said before...me along with ma bros and sis in Christ are own in this world to tell u about who Christ is...THATS IT...lol

it seems like when they tell u...they are forcing it on to u...i know...been there...but do u know why?

cuz they (we) care...we don't want u to believe because they will be more of us...no...we want u to believe because...we love you...oopz...did i say "love"??!!!...YES
:lol

well...i dunno...it seems like u atheist out there and other religions are being attacked each day...but if u real look differently...Christianty is very different because the founder "Jesus" is the only "founder" to declare Himself God...

check the other religions...u find that to be true...
anyways...one other point...

why don't God just come down to earth and prove that He exist...u know why?
that is because he is...see might no see it...or hear it...but He is...now that is faith...
look at the birds in the air. who feeds them?
look at the flower in the meadow. who feeds them?
look at the people stuck in the tower during 9/11. who was looking at them and say "welcome home? He was.

yes science proof...bird get food from the trees...
trees get food from the sun...
do u believe it is all an accident that we exist...
do u kno in phyics...it states that a object that is not moving will stay no moved until a force is act upon it...
what is that force...it is not a what...BUT who?!

that i leave up to you

Warlyik 05-Jan-2003 09:05

Heh, I myself being an aetheist/agnostic don't appreciate someone of another religion, whether it be Christianity (ran into a few of those), Islam (None), or Judaism (None as well, go figure), that attempt to force their religion onto me. Usually I can come up with a debate or something that proves them wrong and they quickly scatter without being able to say much. Gotten a reputation for myself at school with some of my class-mates that way because a majority of the high school I'm at is of the Christian religion.

But besides that, there are three religions who basically believe in the same one "God". If you're going to accept monotheism then you should atleast check out each religion, their benefits, their beliefs, their goals, etc. Evaluate them for yourselves, don't just accept what other people tell you because their opinions can be quite biased. There are three to choose from, basically. They are of course, Christianity, Islam, and Judaism. It should be your choice which one you follow if you do follow them, and you shouldn't be swayed by someone else's opinion until you've gathered all the facts.

In reality, neither of these religions can be proved or disproved, atleast as of yet, but in the future this may change. Faith is the key to any of these religions who believe in "God" or even any of the other religions which are polytheistic which is the belief in more than one "god" for different aspects of life. You could even consider those if you're open-minded enough, I myself know people who follow other types of religions than monotheistic types, and they're perfectly good people.

Again, the choice is up to you which path you take along the long road that life winds itself down. Decisions in your life will affect your future, and you have a clear choice as to what you can believe. Don't be afraid to take a chance however, because everyone makes mistakes, and just because you're afraid of some divine punishment doesn't mean you shouldn't make the most of the time while you're alive and have the ability to reason.

Other than that, my advice has dwindled along with the dwindling essence my mind contains as it is about 3:00 AM here.. I'm really surprised I'm not that tired.. Oh well, hope I helped someone here. (;

Shadowkit 05-Jan-2003 09:19

Quote:

IT IS A HISTORICAL FACT, THAT WITNESSES OF CHRIST AND WRITERS OF THE BIBLE DIED FOR WHAT THEY BELIEVED AND WROTE!!!!!!
I agree with you there, they died for what they believe in just like the suicide cults. Just because they believe in it doens't make it true.

Quote:

Would they die for lies they wrote?
yea, people kill for things less then lies

Quote:

We cannot accept other religions' beliefs, because our God wishes for us to convert them, because He wants as many people in heaven as possible,
Does this occure before or after you taken the lands of the natives and use them as slave labor.(In case you are wondering I am talking about expansion into the "New" World)

Quote:

I am sorry, but He is not a pet.
[Joke]To bad, just think of all the things I can make him do[/Joke]

Warlyik 05-Jan-2003 16:48

Quote:

Where exactly do you hang out? The local Priests Pub. The Nuns swimming club? The Popes favourite Cafe?

If that is really the case, and you are always being forced to beleive in God by most people, then I strongly advise you go to a normal place to hang out and have fun.
D-Man, let me get this straight.. Because of a religion discriminating towards you and being intolerant, you have to move somewhere else? Since when does that make any sense? You know what this reminds me of? Black and White segregation. Racism. Plain pathetic is how I describe it. No one's going to make me move just because their silly religion is in my way. I don't know if you're Christian or not, but if you are I'd seriously start memorizing some morals from the Bible and reiterize on what you read if you did.

If this is truly how you or anyone reacts, then it is no better than some white hick wandering up to a black man in the middle of a city and saying, "Get out of my town, boy". Not that I'd think any stupid person would do that nowadays, what with the gun-toting serious people out there.. (No offense to anyone intended) I also hope that people have gotten over racial discrimination as well, and it's surprising how long religious discrimination has lasted throughout the centuries..

Think about how life would be without religion. There would be far less wars, as many of them are fought over religious disputes (Take Israel/Palestine for instance) and we wouldn't have people bothering eachother over senseless beliefs that can never be proven. We could accept eachother more freely, and the world would be more peaceful.. But instead everyone's gotta think they're always right, when the other thinks the exact same thing.. which creates conflicts.. Just think about what life would be without having faiths.

Just another of my comments on the situation, if you are offended by me then that really is your problem.. But I'm open-minded and quite fair if you ask me, I could be a lot worse.

AznBlade 05-Jan-2003 18:58

Since I have to go, I'll rebutt a few points.
Quote:

Why do you try to pull me from my God? Answer me that. If there is no god, as you think, then what harm will it do for me to believe in Christ?
a) I believe in a God
b) I'm not trying to pull you away from God, but I'm trying to defend against funamentalist remakrs
c) I beleive in Christ, so what's your problem?
Quote:

IT IS A HISTORICAL FACT, THAT WITNESSES OF CHRIST AND WRITERS OF THE BIBLE DIED FOR WHAT THEY BELIEVED AND WROTE!!!!!! Why would they do such a thing if it were not true? Would they die for lies they wrote?
a) The bible has been rewritten, revised, and redone over the years from the original. The modern isn't exactly what it used to be.
b) They could've died for the metaphoric message behind the bible which is what I believe in.
Quote:

We cannot accept other religions' beliefs, because our God wishes for us to convert them, because He wants as many people in heaven as possible, but only sinless and holy things can enter heaven, which we are not.
No, that's what you choose to believe by your interpretation. I don't have much belief in Paul myself and am still debating the facts on him. There are many sects of Christianity saying Paul is the anit-Christ for he changed the teachings of Jesus. I'm still looking into that, but the more evidence is having me doubt Paul.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Quote:

um u all raise interesting points but get a load of this:

how was god created?
either:
a) God is self-created
b) God always existed
-=-=-=-=-
Quote:

So you change a couple words around? This thread isn't about Julius Ceasar. And you make no sense with changing a couple phrases. Somehow, historians will end up leading a cult? They don't FORCE anything. Most Christians will force their ideas into your head until you beleive in their god.
a) You can't prove Julius Ceasar existed either because you haven't seen him, so you'll reference books. There's books on Jesus too.
b) I'm a Christian. I don't force ideas. I respect other beliefs and believe God sent a messenger to all peoples and to believe or not is your choice and I also believe actions ultimately are what are judged. So whats your problem with that?

HlR0 05-Jan-2003 21:38

Quote:

a) You can't prove Julius Ceasar existed either because you haven't seen him, so you'll reference books. There's books on Jesus too.
b) I'm a Christian. I don't force ideas. I respect other beliefs and believe God sent a messenger to all peoples and to believe or not is your choice and I also believe actions ultimately are what are judged. So whats your problem with that?
a) I never said anyone could prove Julius Ceasar existed, however, there is stronger evidence.
b) Did I single you out when I said "most?"

AznBlade 06-Jan-2003 00:48

Quote:

(Originally posted by dourag0n)
a) I never said anyone could prove Julius Ceasar existed, however, there is stronger evidence.
So, where is the line between strong evidence and weak evidence?

You can refernence Julius Ceasar's existance through statues, documents, and accounts. You can reference Jesus' existance through the same means. I know that most historians at least in the US agree that Jesus did exist. The only thing contraversial is the connection of Jesus and a higher being.
Quote:

b) Did I single you out when I said "most?"
No, but it's a generalization that since you said "most", "most" likely therefore includes me. Most implies the area of 50.1%. Therefore it is "most" likely you included me.

Warlyik 06-Jan-2003 01:27

Actually, Aznblade, fact is that Jesus hasn't had any statues made of him that can date back as far as when he existed, and hence the fact that no one really knows what he looked like, supposing he did exist. The only relative 'evidence' (if you can call it that) of Jesus' existence is in fact the Bible. There is very little to support it, so.. I can get why he's saying that Julius is probably more believable.

Also, if you're going to be technical about "most" then you could also be the 49.9% that he is not talking about. He obviously didn't mean it, so just forget it. Don't need to get technical over things futile as that :\

D Man 06-Jan-2003 01:58

Quote:

(Originally posted by Warlyik)

D-Man, let me get this straight.. Because of a religion discriminating towards you and being intolerant, you have to move somewhere else? Since when does that make any sense? You know what this reminds me of? Black and White segregation. Racism. Plain pathetic is how I describe it. No one's going to make me move just because their silly religion is in my way. I don't know if you're Christian or not, but if you are I'd seriously start memorizing some morals from the Bible and reiterize on what you read if you did.

If this is truly how you or anyone reacts, then it is no better than some white hick wandering up to a black man in the middle of a city and saying, "Get out of my town, boy". Not that I'd think any stupid person would do that nowadays, what with the gun-toting serious people out there.. (No offense to anyone intended) I also hope that people have gotten over racial discrimination as well, and it's surprising how long religious discrimination has lasted throughout the centuries..

I NEVER said he had to leave these places!!!

(because of this almost your WHOLE POST IS REDUNDANT)

Why dont you read what someone says, before comming in here and saying they said things which they NEVER said.

Especially if you are then going to make up ideas that they said anything (ANYTHING) along the lines of being Rascist or Discriminatory.

My point was that where on Earth must he hang out if everyone he talk to (or "most") is a religous fanatic.

The only reason that "most" people he talks to is a religous fanatic is if he hangs out in a very strange place. The majority of the world is NOT LIKE THESE PLACES.

(ie, most of the world would not have people in them like "the popes favourite Cafe and the Nuns swimming Pool")

Therefore, his view on the majority (or many) of Christians is flawed and I would like to make that clear.

Please, if any of you still do not understand my point, then please say so and I will try and say it in another way to help you understand what I am saying.

Quote:


Just another of my comments on the situation, if you are offended by me then that really is your problem.. But I'm open-minded and quite fair if you ask me, I could be a lot worse.
The only thing I am offended by is the fact that you made up the words in my mouth.

I never said 3/4 of the things you say I said.

Why would I be offended?

Warlyik 06-Jan-2003 03:28

No offense, D-Man, but I think you lack the ability to comprehend the words you type. You clearly stated

Quote:

If that is really the case, and you are always being forced to beleive in God by most people, then I strongly advise you go to a normal place to hang out and have fun.
I take that as a direct attempt to get someone to move just because other people are discriminatory against that person. No one should just get up and leave because other people feel the need to ridicule them for their beliefs. I clearly stated this before and you misinterpretted it for me attacking you, which I never did.

Quote:

(because of this almost your WHOLE POST IS REDUNDANT)
Not true, hence you lack the meaning of the word 'redundant'. Redundant is, for example, me calling someone a nerd geek. They both mean basically the same thing, thus are redundant, you only need to say 'nerd' or 'geek'. So, find a better word, even though it still doesn't fit.

Quote:

Especially if you are then going to make up ideas that they said anything (ANYTHING) along the lines of being Rascist or Discriminatory.
I related racial discrimination to the topic, not to what you said. Again, learn to comprehend before you explode like a nuclear bomb.

Quote:

The only reason that "most" people he talks to is a religous fanatic is if he hangs out in a very strange place. The majority of the world is NOT LIKE THESE PLACES.
Do you know where he lives? Do you know his lifestyle? Do you know him? You cannot possibly assume he frequents 'strange places'. These places are likely found all over the U.S. that act the same way, perhaps even other parts of the world. That is hardly strange.

Quote:

Therefore, his view on the majority (or many) of Christians is flawed and I would like to make that clear.
In this instance he is merely stating about how he feels of the people AROUND HIM, not the people in the entire world. You mistook his words and put words into HIS mouth, much like you think I put words into your mouth and yet I didn't, which is quite clear to anyone whom understood.

Quote:

The only thing I am offended by is the fact that you made up the words in my mouth.

I never said 3/4 of the things you say I said.

Why would I be offended?
First off, you are offended obviously and you've taken it far too seriously in the first place which I believe I warned people not to do. Secondly, I did NOT put words into your mouth. I stated my opinion as it was and those were MY words. Lastly, you shouldn't have a reason to be offended and yet you are. Think about it.

ton4052 06-Jan-2003 07:18

tell u the true u all...i would really stop talking like a Christian and start acting like one...

all of u should calm down...man this is not even a chat room...only a forum...lol

to tell u the truth...without religion...there won't be wars...i agree...but taking it away...does it help?

did u kno the terms "Jews" and "Palestines" are religious terms...all came from the Bible...

Did you kno why Jews and Palestines are fighting even till this day...than u can look in the Bible...from the beginning with Issac and Ishmael the sons of Abraham...(sorry bad spelling) :b fighting over who gets the blessing...
it was suppose to by dynastic succession...first born gets the blessing...but God had other plans. Ishmael was the first born but Issac got the blessing.

now the fighting is more intense. the God of the Jews and God of Palestines are the same...God of Abraham who is GOD!!! but BUT...wut makes the difference is the fact Christian believe that God did not limited his blessing to only the Jews or Palestines....no...after Jesus came down and die...and rose again, the blessing was given to the Gentiles whoever believes.

also i think the Bible states the world will end if there is "Peace in the Middle East" and the anti-Christ (Satan) will arise tempting everybody...i dunno about that...u can correct me....thanks... :D

AznBlade 07-Jan-2003 00:55

Quote:

(Originally posted by ton4052)
tell u the true u all...i would really stop talking like a Christian and start acting like one...
Talking and typing is an act last time I checked.
Quote:

all of u should calm down...man this is not even a chat room...only a forum...lol
What's the difference?
Quote:

to tell u the truth...without religion...there won't be wars...i agree...but taking it away...does it help?
Really? I didn't know the War of 1812, Vietnam, and the World Wars were fought on the main basis of religion.
Quote:

did u kno the terms "Jews" and "Palestines" are religious terms...all came from the Bible...
No, the word "Palestinian" isn't in the bible for Palestine wasn't formed yet. The Word "Jew" is the name for a person of the Jewish faith, and recorded long before the full assembliment of the bible.
Quote:

Did you kno why Jews and Palestines are fighting even till this day...than u can look in the Bible...from the beginning with Issac and Ishmael the sons of Abraham...(sorry bad spelling) :b fighting over who gets the blessing...
a) The fight between Israelies and Palestinians has to do with land claim.
b) If what you claim is true, please explain how the relation to Issac and Ismael affects today's soceity
Quote:

it was suppose to by dynastic succession...first born gets the blessing...but God had other plans. Ishmael was the first born but Issac got the blessing.
Point?
Quote:

now the fighting is more intense. the God of the Jews and God of Palestines are the same...God of Abraham who is GOD!!! but BUT...wut makes the difference is the fact Christian believe that God did not limited his blessing to only the Jews or Palestines....no...after Jesus came down and die...and rose again, the blessing was given to the Gentiles whoever believes.
a) There were no Palestianians at the time of Isaac and Ishmael! There was no fighting between them!
b) Palestinians are a culture of people. You are reffering to the religion, Islam. Islam promotes tolerance of all religions under one God and therefore are bound by the Koran/Noble Qu'ran to respect Christians and Jews unless provoked.
Quote:

also i think the Bible states the world will end if there is "Peace in the Middle East" and the anti-Christ (Satan) will arise tempting everybody...i dunno about that...u can correct me....thanks... :D
a) Revelations is generally supposed to be taken as metaphoric
b) Where are you getting this?

ton4052 07-Jan-2003 07:38

aznblade...i dunno if u r a christian or not but i was asking if i was rite or wrong...hmm...to u it seems wrong

anyway...issac was the son of Abraham and Sarah (according to the bible)...prue Jew...
ishmael...was the son of Abraham and a maidservant(Hagar)...
now ishmael was not jews because the maidservant was not jew...God send the maidservant and her son away and according to the Bible Ishmael was the father of 12 rulers...(nation?)

now tracing the root of the mulism and jews...they are all brothers...but the wanting of getting the "Holy Land" forced brother to fight against each other. each claiming they have the blessing. now the fighting is base on land claims...but the roots is who gets the blessing. check it out...why would some people are willing to blow themselves up for a piece on land...(not gonna happen in utopia) :lol
the jews and mulism are not gonna say that they are fighting over blessing cuz it has been "fog up" with the term "Holy Land"

ma point on wars is not on wars...hehe
ma point was if u taking religion out of this world...would it make it better or worse?

sorry i made a mistake about the palestines...i thought i saw that word in the Bible...turn out to be philistines...hehe. but i think the philistines and palestines have something to do with each other...


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