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-   -   Christians make bad athletes (https://forums.utopiatemple.com/showthread.php?t=75745)

Gotterdammerung 22-Feb-2008 02:33

Christians make bad athletes
 
19-year-old Brian O'Tool is a 100-metre specialist, and a Christian. He trains hard every morning (except on sundays) without complaint and is sure to go about his strength training to the letter. Unfortunately, last saturday, he lost the championship; to a younger competitor!

On that day, Brian lined up at the start of the race, clear headed and calm. His rival, however, 18-year-old Tim Henderson, is a sadistic freak. He takes pleasure in pushing himself beyond what is thought possible, and when he trains, which is a lesser 3 times a weak, he trains like a demon until collapse. Before the gun, Tim looked over to Brain and said, "I hate you. I am going to destroy you." Poor Brain only smiled, then replied, "Good luck to you too, buddy!"

It was over in 12 seconds. Brian could not keep up with the possessed drive of Tim. While crossing the line Brain still smiled humbled by second-place, though Tim only wanted to scream and do it again, "Arrggghhhh! Come on! Come on!" Others from near the stands came over to try to calm him.

...

My Question: is it ever possible for any 'turn the other cheek' philosophy to succeed in the physical world?

Brightbane 22-Feb-2008 03:02

I wouldn't think so. At least not without the use of some drugs. Maybe a Quad would follow that perspective, but that is only because they can't do anything about what is happening.


You should revise the title to 'Christians make bad atheists''.

Syke 22-Feb-2008 08:31

How does a fictitious anecdote constitute a valid argument? I fail to see how humility has any bearing on ability in sports. I've won and lost to both arrogant and humble opponents, and I've seen no real correlation between how they perform. The only reason that you might see more "humble" participants doing poorly is because their bloated self-image hasn't had reality back up their lofty estimation of themselves. If they were often victorious, they'd probably be as boastful as the rest of them.

Ninjoo 22-Feb-2008 09:07

I am most certainly more tired than a christian lamb but I still try.

How do I try? I make rythmic points that are valid and use language as a tool and the full brain both right ends and left ends to explain what I'm talking about.

So you can define weather you are left halved or right halved in brain study.

What you are saying doesn't make sense. (Ie (for not making sense) You lose because I say its not fact.

Thats deconstructive thus even in this thread your point hasn't made sense. (ie I can prove you wrong unless I am descontructive)

Thats the human danger point of mentally challenged individuals and why am I able to come up with this logic with out thinking.

I am assuming the language system we use actually exist in our conversation.
You can now disconinue using bad rythmic paterns by being descontructe in the english pre reqs of how you should speak.

Its not opinion, it works in real life and thus its fact and you should actually use the human language and not your impulses to prove me "wrong"

This isn't a discussion of what you are talking about until you assume this discussion exist (ie someone stretching)

Why should I have to prove that this english language is fact everytime I speak when that doesn't matter in the critera but only the question.

I finding I have to define the english language to more people on a national lvl than I should.

This doesn't just apply to america or the english language in general.

You must put your stero type in writing is.

Calculated uncalculated whatever.

Now that we are using the rules of language you can see a discussion happening mentally can't you?

ps

this is only to prove the valitidy of the last posters logic is right.

I am simply just guiding the cattle

Caelis666 22-Feb-2008 14:38

Err, yeah.

Quote:

I fail to see how humility has any bearing on ability in sports.
It has a huge influence on sports. People who are humble tend to accept when someone does better then they do. People who are egocentrical will believe that they are inherently better and that therefor their loss must lie in their lack of discipline/training, which causes them to step it up a notch.

The world of top athletes is filled with arrogance.

Draco Eudokus 22-Feb-2008 15:12

Even if your story were true, then it still wouldn't prove that "Christians make bad athletes." According to the story, Brian is in fact a good athlete. Also, in my experience 2nd place is still very good (especially in track meets where the combined score of the team is the determining factor).


I personally have known and still know many Christian athletes and they would be just as confused by your proposed story and question. Each of them has been to championships and won or lost but they still were very competitive.

I think part of the problem here is that you're suggesting that Christians are unable to be competitive because of "turn the other cheek" philosophy. That is simply not true. Humility allows one to accept defeat more gracefully but it doesn't affect an athlete's drive to do better.

Michael1 22-Feb-2008 15:26

Re: Christians make bad athletes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Caelis666 (Post 1628503)
It has a huge influence on sports. People who are humble tend to accept when someone does better then they do. People who are egocentrical will believe that they are inherently better and that therefor their loss must lie in their lack of discipline/training, which causes them to step it up a notch.

The world of top athletes is filled with arrogance.

I see absolutely no correlation between arrogance, piety, and competitiveness. The world of top athletes is filled with guys who praise God and their moms after victory. One's relationship with one's mother is just as likely to determine one's will to be victorious as one's relationship with God.

Besides, it would just as silly to conclude that atheists lack desire to win because they see no greater picture. Er, well, maybe not. History is not exactly littered with atheists willing to die for their cause. Maybe theists do have an advantage in that they are willing to fight to the death while atheists just quit when they no longer perceive it to be in their best interests.

Yep, the premise of this thread is all wrong. Atheists are much more inclined to be quitters. :lol

DHoffryn 22-Feb-2008 17:10

I don't think religion has much to do with athletic performance. Well maybe if you are a Shaolin monk or something but otherwhise i doubt it has much of an impact. It's all about your personality.

Caelis666 22-Feb-2008 17:36

Re: Christians make bad athletes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael1 (Post 1628506)
I see absolutely no correlation between arrogance, piety, and competitiveness. The world of top athletes is filled with guys who praise God and their moms after victory. One's relationship with one's mother is just as likely to determine one's will to be victorious as one's relationship with God.

Besides, it would just as silly to conclude that atheists lack desire to win because they see no greater picture. Er, well, maybe not. History is not exactly littered with atheists willing to die for their cause. Maybe theists do have an advantage in that they are willing to fight to the death while atheists just quit when they no longer perceive it to be in their best interests.

Yep, the premise of this thread is all wrong. Atheists are much more inclined to be quitters. :lol

I said nothing about piety. Christians can be just as self centered as Atheists, and they make just as good athletes. And history is not littered with Atheists willing to die for their cause because it has only been socially acceptable to admit that you're an atheist in the last 50 years or so. (And still not in the US).

Michael1 22-Feb-2008 18:33

Re: Christians make bad athletes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Caelis666 (Post 1628526)
And history is not littered with Atheists willing to die for their cause because it has only been socially acceptable to admit that you're an atheist in the last 50 years or so. (And still not in the US).

I think atheists aren't as willing as theists to die for their cause (or fight to the death, compete beyond the norm) because if they die, they're convinced that's it. End. Over. Done.

People who believe in an after life presumably can rationalize that there is something after this and that if they give their all and perish, meh ... so what.

I'm thinking the more brutal/lethal type of sports here obviously, like boxing and uh, ice skating :b .

Have you ever been on a college campus in the US? Atheism is all the rage. Really just a rebellious type thing. Eventually atheists mature and just stop talking about / preaching about their lack of faith. Most atheists mellow into apathetics or agnostics as they age. At that point, who is willing to put their life on the line for the cause of "I don't know" or "I don't care", especially in like an arena or boxing ring? Evil Knievel had a deathwish, probably only made possible by his complete rejection of atheism.

So yeah, atheists aren't willing to fight/compete to the death like theists are. It takes someone who believes in God to strap a suicide bomb vest on, after all. :\

Caelis666 22-Feb-2008 20:34

Nonsense. When talking about sporters especially, I read a (not too flattering) research the other day. A researcher asked a lot of professional athletes (anonymously) if they would take a drug which would enable them to win the highest prize in their discipline, with the unfortunate disadvantage that that same drug would kill them within some 10 years time.

The overwhelming majority said that they would.

It's beside the matter anyhow. If there is any difference at all, in the willingness to die, which I doubt, then those believers don't die for their cause but because they expect to be rewarded with heaven. Oh nobleness!

Gotterdammerung 23-Feb-2008 02:03

I'm sorry, but mentality is everything. I suppose that even this argument reflects our personalities in the same way. Some of us are willing to accept that it is fine and dandy to have a complacent mentality, whereas I believe that to succed in the physical world it is a better thing to be vehement to the point of stupidity (and then some!). I guess we will never know while we keep it to a battle of opinions. Though it's nice to indulge.

It is really simple in my eyes. Willpower is needed to push those muscles. The one with the greater will makes the greater athlete. The greater the belief behind the will the greater the result. And so, extreme mentalities make extreme athletes. Savvy?

Zelun 23-Feb-2008 03:39

Sure, if you are going to be the best in the world at something you are going to have to be pretty damn obsessive about it.

The only reaon I might argue (if I cared enough, which I don't) that Christians might not make such good elite sports people is that they wouldn't be able to be completely dedicated to their training as they would understand that there are ultimately more important things for them to be worrying about than a few fleeting years of being on top of the heap.

Mandraque 23-Feb-2008 03:42

i would be surprised if athletes are not the most religious of any profession.

Gotterdammerung 23-Feb-2008 13:22

Can I ask what we think is best belief system for the most successful human?

And if there is none that come to mind, can we manufacture one?

Mandraque 23-Feb-2008 19:50

Jews and Mormons seem to be very successful, and, from what ive heard, it does have to do with their religion. But, if Buddhist monks aren't 'successful', you cant really blame their religion for their goals are not success, in the meaning that is generally understood. I believe some religions to tend themselves to strive for success for than others, if you mean success as defined in a capitalistic society.

If you meant success spiritually, then the more strict the religion the better.

Gotterdammerung 24-Feb-2008 01:52

Then measuring success by how well the will is manifest in physical world. So buddhist monks stand-out by the feats of the body that they seem to be able to make. This may be attributed to a system of training and discipline rather than belief, maybe not.

Then what is spiritual success?

Mandraque 24-Feb-2008 04:43

if you fulfill your own standards for what you believe to be the apex of your ideals, then you can be said to be successful. If a Buddhist seeks nirvana and he reaches it, its the ultimate success for him; if a Christian dies and goes to heaven, that is his ultimate success.

Gotterdammerung 25-Feb-2008 00:42

Then do higher ideals lead to a higher spiritual fulfillment?

Mandraque 26-Feb-2008 03:11

i though i posted a reply, to make it short my answer is yes. The more you care about something and are good at it the more satisfaction you get from it. If your sole preoccupation is basketball and you happen to be Kobe, you are pretty successful in your own mind, but if your the best at b-ball and you dont care about it, your general success would be less.


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