Utopia Temple Forums

Utopia Temple Forums (https://forums.utopiatemple.com/index.php)
-   Religious Discussions (https://forums.utopiatemple.com/forumdisplay.php?f=68)
-   -   The Blood God (https://forums.utopiatemple.com/showthread.php?t=78775)

Gotterdammerung 19-Dec-2011 03:47

The Blood God
 
Every religion cannot be right. But maybe this is the point. Maybe we've got God wrong.

"I will make my arrows drunk with blood, and my sword will devour flesh."
-- Deuteronomy 32:42, The Holy Bible.


Does violence please Him? Could the existance of multiple, incompatible religions in today's world really be a divine plan to spill the blood of men and satisfy the hungry Lord?

Azure Dragon 19-Dec-2011 04:35

No.

There is no god, so there is no divine plan. All that exists are the words used to dominate the minds of the masses for the benefit of the few.

Finding divine meaning in words written by men is indulging in fantasy. Believing the fantasy is delusion.

Roxtin 19-Dec-2011 04:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gotterdammerung (Post 1698922)
Every religion cannot be right. But maybe this is the point. Maybe we've got God wrong.

"I will make my arrows drunk with blood, and my sword will devour flesh."
-- Deuteronomy 32:42, The Holy Bible.


Does violence please Him? Could the existance of multiple, incompatible religions in today's world really be a divine plan to spill the blood of men and satisfy the hungry Lord?

Deuteronomy is old testament ... since you're quoting the Bible, implies a Christian point of view. With the death of Jesus, a change was made to follow new testament preachings - those of a loving, forgiving God.

Gotterdammerung 19-Dec-2011 04:54

Re: The Blood God
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure Dragon (Post 1698925)
There is no god, so there is no divine plan.

How else can you explain the abnomally surrounding bloodshed in the name of religion?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roxtin (Post 1698926)
Deuteronomy is old testament ... since you're quoting the Bible, implies a Christian point of view. With the death of Jesus, a change was made to follow new testament preachings - those of a loving, forgiving God.

The God in the old testament is the same one in the new testament, yes? So how do you know that the death of Jesus didn't herald in a new age of bloodshed? Read:

"The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of Godís wrath. They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horsesí bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia."
-- Rev 14:19-20, New Testament

Voice of Reason 19-Dec-2011 12:42

Quote:

How else can you explain the abnomally surrounding bloodshed in the name of religion?
Easy. Power hungry people using religion as an excuse, and masses of dumb people who believe them. Politics is very similar: power hungry people using political ideology as an excuse, and masses of dumb people who believe them.


Quote:

The God in the old testament is the same one in the new testament, yes?
Allegedly...

Gotterdammerung 19-Dec-2011 23:00

Re: The Blood God
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason (Post 1698933)
Easy. Power hungry people using religion as an excuse, and masses of dumb people who believe them. Politics is very similar: power hungry people using political ideology as an excuse, and masses of dumb people who believe them.

But stupidity alone doesn't make you violent, does it?

Is all violence a by product of brainwashing by power hungry people?

Are people THAT malleable?

Voice of Reason 20-Dec-2011 08:30

Violence is inherently stupid, and only stupid people howl for violence. And yes, a lot of people really are that stupid and malleable.

Azure Dragon 22-Dec-2011 02:05

Re: The Blood God
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gotterdammerung (Post 1698938)
But stupidity alone doesn't make you violent, does it?

Is all violence a by product of brainwashing by power hungry people?

Are people THAT malleable?

No, not all violence.

Religion, politics, nationalism, gangs or even sports teams all tap into the needs of the human psyche on a number of levels and in complicated ways.

It's illogical to be proud of your country of birth. You had no choice in it. You didn't work for the honour of being born there. Why be proud of it? And yet people are.

No-one ever chose their race; and yet people proclaim to be proud to be white, or proud to be black, as if they worked for it.

A Olympic gold medalist has something to be proud of. A fan of some football team who wins the league has nothing to be proud about... they didn't play, they didn't win it themselves.

Religion is just as illogical. Most people don't choose their religion. They get indoctrinated into their parents religion, and they lack the will or the desire to break free. Even if they don't really believe, life is easier if they pretend they do.

Look at the idea of Santa. Millions upon millions of children are indoctrinated to believe in "Santa"; the mythical man who leaves presents under the tree. Children believe in him so readily, they believe their parents lies, until such a time as the falsehood makes itself known.

Santa is only different from the idea of jesus or god, by the fact that what's promised is a tangible item, something that could be proven to exist or not exist.

The idea of Santa in his current form was a marketing ploy, it's success is a testament to how malleable human beings are to influence. That parents knowingly teach, suppport and reinforce a blatant lie to their child proves how sheep-like people are.

Most people are scared of stepping too far away from the "norm". Different people have a different tolerance for the "different". Some attack anything that is slightly different, while others are more tolerant and take longer to go on the attack. Most don't care so long as their lives are unaffected. But the norm can be changed and manipulated.

This manipulation of the norm is how religions, politicians and increasingly, corporations, work. Even hindsight of history clearly shows how the powerful have manipulated the masses.

Religion is just a tool. Nationalism is just a tool. Those who lust for power will always do so.

Gotterdammerung 22-Dec-2011 04:48

Re: The Blood God
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason (Post 1698942)
Violence is inherently stupid, and only stupid people howl for violence. And yes, a lot of people really are that stupid and malleable.

I guess you have a point.

If you wanted to get your own way, you need to recruit others. If you were to work on your own, and be violent, you would most likely fail. The only exception would be if you were extremely surgical in your use of violence.

For example, there have been lots of assassinations in history that have also been religiously motivated. However, these are by far the exception to the rule. Assassins have to be smart and in the minority, counter to being stupid and in the majority.

Your rule holds true, VoR. And once again, the implications are very interesting.

[...]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure Dragon (Post 1698957)
This manipulation of the norm is how religions, politicians and increasingly, corporations, work. Even hindsight of history clearly shows how the powerful have manipulated the masses.

Religion is just a tool. Nationalism is just a tool. Those who lust for power will always do so.

I think, more and more, I've just become frustrated with the ever-increasing realization that I've been jibbed.

At the same time it's enlightening to reflect on how you really ought fit into such skulduggery.

DHoffryn 08-Jan-2012 16:23

Re: The Blood God
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure Dragon (Post 1698925)
No.

There is no god, so there is no divine plan. All that exists are the words used to dominate the minds of the masses for the benefit of the few.

Finding divine meaning in words written by men is indulging in fantasy. Believing the fantasy is delusion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure Dragon (Post 1698925)
No.

There is no god, so there is no divine plan. All that exists are the words used to dominate the minds of the masses for the benefit of the few.

Finding divine meaning in words written by men is indulging in fantasy. Believing the fantasy is delusion.

Depends on what you mean under god. If you go by the western Mary Sue version that is all powerful of course not. This is just beyond silly.

However we can always go back to the old alien stuff. Even now it is well within our power to engineer life forms and use them in social experiemnts on a remote island or something similar. Hell we can build islands. And let's face the massive technological leaps have been going only for a hundred or so years. If we keep the current technological pace for the next thousand years it's quite possible for us to engineer life, seed it on another planet and do one hell of a social experiment on it. So who knows it might very well be that we are a social experiment if some alien race. Well no, frankly let's face it there is not a very high probability of that but still never know what's out there. Hell we even explored our own planet

Trent 11-Jan-2012 23:11

Re: The Blood God
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gotterdammerung (Post 1698922)
Every religion cannot be right. But maybe this is the point. Maybe we've got God wrong.

"I will make my arrows drunk with blood, and my sword will devour flesh."
-- Deuteronomy 32:42, The Holy Bible.


Does violence please Him? Could the existance of multiple, incompatible religions in today's world really be a divine plan to spill the blood of men and satisfy the hungry Lord?

Just pointing out that is out of context. If you put it into context you will see that it is about judgement, not just blood lust. You can take any religious text and twist it, but the best way to study it is in context of both the chapter and book as well as the whole of Scripture to gain understanding.

Gotterdammerung 13-Jan-2012 02:15

Re: The Blood God
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Trent (Post 1699214)
Just pointing out that is out of context. If you put it into context you will see that it is about judgement, not just blood lust. You can take any religious text and twist it, but the best way to study it is in context of both the chapter and book as well as the whole of Scripture to gain understanding.

It's easy to say that something is out of context if it is unpalatable.

Jesus spilt his own blood for the sins of the world. He is the sacrifical lamb of the old testament. His blood is the divine component. In the Eucharist we consume his blood for the cleansing of our own sins.

Blood is the central theme in the bible.

Trent 13-Jan-2012 04:04

Re: The Blood God
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gotterdammerung (Post 1699237)
It's easy to say that something is out of context if it is unpalatable.

Jesus spilt his own blood for the sins of the world. He is the sacrifical lamb of the old testament. His blood is the divine component. In the Eucharist we consume his blood for the cleansing of our own sins.

Blood is the central theme in the bible.

The Eucharist I would argue is Church tradition that was not the way it was done in the Apostles time. It is wine or juice and the substance or essence does not change. Jesus celebrated Passover and his comments there with the bread and wine make sense with all the symbolism. We Quakers find that outward ceremonies do not change the inward being but God can and needs no ceremony for it.

I find much of the OT palatable. It shows the failings of people quite clear. Blood is a common theme which does not bother me.


All times are GMT+1. The time now is 04:04.

Powered by vBulletin (modified)
Copyright ©2000-2005, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.