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Posts: 39/48
(08-Sep-2003 at 11:38)
Overview Of Races This Age

review of races this age, please read and discuss if you want but refrain from asking noob questions.

Iím not gonna take into account how much elites cost, thanks to the new maintenance rules maintenance (and not training costs) will be the main bottleneck for obtaining and keeping elites. So the prices of training are just a minor effect on races and training is mainly achieved through battle.

1) HUMAN

+30% Income
+25% Science Maximum

+50% Spell Costs
-5% Max Population
20% Failure on Spells

5/6 Elite - $2100


As always, human is pretty strong and capable of holding itís own, if you want a fairly strong attacker who is hard to hit human is your choice. However, human doesnít have the power to do much damage and in war we will need attackers who do lots of damage (for the kd). With itís sci bonus human can easily overcome their drawbacks, they are capable of getting some power in the TM section but will never be able to do much damage. 20% failed spells is a bitch but as long as you only need self spells plenty of towers will cover that for you (for self spells only bottleneck is not your magic rate but the ammount of runes you have).

Conclusion: hard to hit and to destroy but will never be as strong and fearsome as other races, better pick something else.


2) ELVES

-30% Training Time
+40% Magic Effectiveness
-35% Combat Losses
-30% Military Costs
Cast Self Spells
on Kingdom Members

-1 General

5/5 Elite - $1800


Elves are mages. You can adapt them a little to TM but their thievery power is not that strong and you can make them mage-attacker but they lack military strenght to become a good attacking race. They do have the advantage of being hard to hit through magic but they lack 1 general and only have 5/5 elites which isnít that great.

Conclusion: strongest mages arround, every kd will need some as they have meteor showers and can cast self spells on others. They can ba adapted to TM or Mage-attacker but they will never be strong in it.

3) DWARF

40% Construction Time
+100% Birth Rate
-25% Military Maintenance
+25% Combat Gains

+40% Food Consumption
Cannot use Mercenaries

birth rate and lower construction time enables a verry fast first growth. Bigger combat gains ensure they will gain a lot of land in battle and will be hard to get war-wins from dwarf-kdís. The lower maintenace enable them to have 33% more elites with the same maintenance costs (even more) so it will strengthen their position at the end of the age.
Drawbacks: higher food consumption can be countered by picking shepherd or building plenty of farms so it is not that hard to overcome. Mercs is a minor drawback too, you will have more elites to cover this.

Conclusion: I think this is your race of choice for attacker race, they will rock from the beginning (fast growth) to the end (larger ammount of elites).


4) ORC

+15% Max Population
+10% Enemy Losses
Strong Massacre Attack

-50% Thievery Effectiveness
-50% Magic Effectiveness
+15% Combat Losses

8/1 Elite - $1800

Orc is only capabl;e of going attacker and you can expect to be GB-ed all age long (I speak out of experience) You have a larger poulation and awesome elites, so orcs can be DANGEROUS attackers, as long as they donít get hit by TM provinces.

Conclusion: Strong attacker but verry easy to take down by TM provinces.


5) FAERY

Access to All Spells
+20% Magic Effectiveness
+15% Thievery Effectiveness
-15% Exploration Costs

-20% Income
-35% Birth Rates

4/6 Elite - $1900

Acces to all spells, bonus on thieveryÖ Faery are strongest race for TM provinces. They can rival elves as mages and can almost keep up with halflings as thieves. They are capable of becoming good attackers too with their spells but loose their exploration bonus if so, lower birthrates make them vulnerable to attacks and their income and birth are too low to become a fast growing provicne. They will however be hard to hit with their elites and TM capabilities

Conclusion: This is my favourite all-time race and is still one of the strongest races if you go TM (and not pure thief or mage)


6) HALFLING

+1 Happiness Level
+50% Thievery Effectiveness
-50% Construction Cost
$300 Thieves
Double production of Elites from Armouries

4/5 Elite - $1800

Halfling are Thieves, they are ensure high hapiness and can easily train thieves, they have major thievery bonuses. Their elites will be trained through maxed amrs (and not by paying for them) but the maintenance costs will restrict their elites, it might even be beneficial to have no elites (larger income through smaller maintenance) because a bonus from 0/4 def to 4/5 def isnít that great.

CONCLUSION: halfling (pick rogue so you have acces to all thievery ops) are THIEVES, donít waste them in other TMA combinations and go pure T.


7) AVIANS

-25% Attack Time
+100% Elite Gains
Immune to Enemy Forts

+10% Military Costs
Cannot Use War Horses


To me they are the race everyone has forgotten about, they have some nice advantages but the new maintenance costs will surely hamper them: they can easily gain elites but maintenance will keep the number of elites they can afford low (10% extra costs). So they will have a hard time getting much elites And they canít use warhorses (which is a major drawback)

Conclusion: aargh this race sucks, but some good kd-strats can be build arround them if everyone joins in (lower attack time will be awesome in war when everyone did 3 attacks/24 hours or something)


8) UNDEAD

No Food Needed
No Offensive Combat Losses
Spreads The Plague
Immune to The Plague
WAR: +10% Military Strength
Homes hold 35 people

-25% Science Effectiveness
-25% Science Maximum
OUT OF WAR: -10% Attack Gains
*** (See Below)

6/5 Elite - $1300

OK last age I played undead and they should have been strenghtened but I donít see anything changed for them. With some undead you have a major power in war as they are hard to starve but lower sci is a major drawback (lower pop and military strenght) The homes-strat might be a solution but last age you dropped in hapiness when having over 10% homes so advantage of homes is limited too. Only spy related thieery ops sucks too, other races can easily steal some resources when they are getting short from a noob with no theives, undead canít and you always meet some provinces who stubbornly refuse to train thieves (and make advantage of this) but undead canít.

CONCLUSION: strong attackers, please donít try to become a TM or other combination as they have limited sciences. They have advantages and disadvantages but in war they can eb strong attackers but might need backup from TM provicnes.
#1  
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Posts: 40/48
(08-Sep-2003 at 11:40)
maybe i should first have added my view on changes this age...


Military / Combat

* Elite prices have changed. Maintenance is now $3 per Elite troop.


Elite prices went down but maintenace went up, last age as warrior I had 10k elites and payed 9k maintenance I think, this age I would have to pay 30k Ö. Maintenance is being paid even when your troops are out so I think reducing this mainenace is needed to get a large-elite army. Maybe it might be less usefull to even have elites.

* Soldier strength is now 1/1 instead of 2/2.

Good, this means inactives are easier to hit and people who log in and train all of their troops will get rewarded.

* Players now pay military maintenance on all troops, home and away.

See above: mainenace on elites will be hell.

* Specialist troops are 6/0 or 0/6 during Plunder Attacks. Plunders can also be made with no penalty into a kingdom at war.

Plunder!!!!!! Might be a nice thing for undead to do outside war, and enable us to hit easily on TM.

* War bonuses and penalties have changed (See the Guide).

EFFECTS OF WAR:
+15% Combat Gains for Both Kingdoms
+10% Offensive Strength for Both Kingdoms
-15% Military Losses from Combat
No Distance Penalties for Attacks
Access to All Offensive Thievery & Magic Operations
Highest effectiveness of Raze & Massacre Attacks
Highest Honor gains for all Attacks, Thievery, and Magic
Access to the Conquest Attack
No Military Maintenance for Troops on Attack
-60% Combat & Honor Gains for all Attacks by or to other Kingdoms
-60% Magic & Thievery Effectivess involving operations by or to other Kingdoms
+75% Exploration Costs
+50% Elite Training Costs
-20% Specialist Training Costs
-40% Troop Draft Costs
-5% Income
Loss of Paradise Magic Spell
Minimum Time: 36 Utopian Days
Not that much has changed but some things I would like to highlight:
No maintenance for troops on attack, so war will be usefull in reducing costs for attackers and enable you to train specs cheap and draft them easily.



Buildings

* Mines have been removed from the game.

* Banks now increase income by % per day (as opposed to % * 2); They also generate $30 / day in income.

Ok, so we donít need to choose between banks or mines.

* Training Grounds building added - these provide % * 2.5 decrease in maintenance expenses (50% Max).

Not sure what to think about this yet, at first sight they seemed useless but when calculating the maintenance costs I think they will be needed in order to get a large elite-force on your lands. Some races might even be better of without elites (halflings for example, from 0/4 to 4/5 elites you donít gain much defence and have to pay a lot more maintenance)

Races & Personalities

* Dwarves: -25% Maintenance Costs; +40% Food Consumption.

Dwarves are improoved again I think, 25% maintenance gives 33% more elites you can pay with the same income. Iím not sure but we will have this effect: dwarves are fast growers due to their other bonusses but compared to other ages they will now have the advantage of getting more elites compared to other races in the end of the age. I think they will be a strong attacker race.

* Orcs: No longer have a happiness penalty.

Ok so we are back on where we were 2 ages ago. Orc will be easy to GB and easily taken down by TM (even when mystic). A side effect of the new maintenance costs: elite armies will be a lot smaller so compared to 2 ages ago: orc will suffer again and will have less elites so I wouldnít pick them as attackerÖ

* Warriors: -25% Maintenance Costs.

Warriors will be able to have 33% more elites compared to non-warriors. I think this improves them a lot above other personalities (like generals). I think this might be an important personality this age for attackers.
#2  
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Posts: 41/48
(08-Sep-2003 at 11:42)
and now i am wondering what maintenance was last age... i even doubt if my statement about higher maintenance is correct...hell. lemme know if i made any mistakes.
#3  
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Posts: 39/297
(08-Sep-2003 at 11:57)


First, I did all the math, and with my human/rogue strat I can easily have 40 opa/55 dpa/7.53 tpa mod. Not awesome TPA, but enough to hit attackers and pure mages not watching out. Humans do have the possibility to do a lot in war if you make them an a/t or an a/m (but why would you?)

Second, Elves have pretty good attacking characteristics. I tried it one age and got pretty good results. Put on Elf/Sage to augment all the Elf's training bonuses.

Thirdly, I really disagree with you on dwarves. No mines and no MM, more elites is the last thing a dwarf wants. He will be paying everything towards his army. It's gonna take a good player to be a great Dwarf this age.

The rest is pretty much right on.
#4  
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(Posted as Old Enemy)
Posts: 202/290
Donated $0.60
(08-Sep-2003 at 12:09)


I couldn't possibly encourage anyone to go dwarf... A dwarf kingdom will be declared on 24/7 because dwarves are so amazingly feeble in war... Picking Human or Orc and being slightly slower off the starting blocks is definately worth it... IMO, dwarves are right down there with avians. Also, I reckon people are better off staying away from faery. If you want to try and hoard honour by being good at thievery and magic then they'll work ok, but IMO you're far better off going Elf or Halfling and specialising in magic and thievery respectively... Also, in a top kingdom with 20 or so attackers, orcs could expect some pretty spectacular results... They would beat humans and any other attacker race easily, certainly for networth... they could get a decent amount of honour too...

But on the whole, not bad.

I fight anyone...

Last edited by Farcanell, 08-Sep-2003 at 12:14.
#5  
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Posts: 3/41
(08-Sep-2003 at 12:10)
Quote:
(Originally posted by Suporia)

No mines and no MM, more elites is the last thing a dwarf wants. He will be paying everything towards his army. It's gonna take a good player to be a great Dwarf this age.
I thought mines gave crappy money anyway right? And with their lower maintenance costs Dwarfs will probably have it easier maintaining Elite armies than the other races.
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Posts: 18/41
(08-Sep-2003 at 12:12)
Umm, could you please show logic behind the orc comment. They and avians are they only 2 races with elites that have defence rating of equal or under def spec. IF anything, this change will strenghten them even more.
#7  
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Posts: 92/137
Donated $1.13
(08-Sep-2003 at 12:34)
It's an ELITE AGE! With training grounds you can bring your maintenace costs down to 50%. Combined with the dwarf or warrior bonus of -25% costs, a full elite army is easy to maintain. This means of corse, orcs will train elites now instead of just getting a bit from attacking. So they'll be really strong. Humans are as strong as always and dwarves are GREAT. Only problem with them is the food and merc thing which made me choose human instead of them (also because of the sci bonus they have). Undeads are still as good as they ever were; they aren't good OOW but once in war they ROCK. Avians now suck because well, they were bad last age too. And now that elites are so easy to train, their elite gains thing is usless. Their elites suck too.

So I'd say humans, orcs, and dwarves are the best generally(because undeads are too good in wars). Dwarves aren't good to have too many in your kd though because if somebody sends a dragon on you, declares, and keeps vermin/drought on them 24/7 they're dead.

Koker
#8  
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Posts: 320/1035
(08-Sep-2003 at 14:34)
True Training grounds would reduce the maintanance with 50% but where would the 20% needed be taken from?
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Posts: 377/681
(08-Sep-2003 at 14:43)
What is your problems with Orcs? Get 15 fellas in your KD t o play Orc and you are free from TMs. I think all of the attacking Races has suffered from the changes this age except Orcs.
#10  
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Posts: 37/120
(08-Sep-2003 at 14:46)
I agree totally with this post on race strats and weakness and strengths. Now all I need is to get my kingdom to come in here to see this. Later all.

Lightningwolf

Live each day as if your last, never turning around learning from the past. Live each as if no tomorrow, if not then cursed to eternity of your sorrow.
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Posts: 37/46
(08-Sep-2003 at 14:59)
Im going for elf/attacker. Which personality should i choose? Warrior or shepard?

btw. if i go shepard how much training grounds will we have to build to have the same effect of the warrior personality (-25% military upkeep)?

Im asking because i want the personality where i can have the most free space ..
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(Posted as fatt)
Posts: 11/64
(08-Sep-2003 at 15:08)


smile

This age, i would be human. but the problem is if you get too much elite then y would suffer. cause of elite maintance
#13  
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Posts: 42/48
(08-Sep-2003 at 15:12)
go read the guide...

10% training grounds
#14  
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Posts: 154/299
(08-Sep-2003 at 17:06)


I'm Human/Shepherd, but I disagree the first-post-Halfling description. Training Half-Giants is great. For 0/4 to 4/5 is a great thing. +25% defense. So, if you have 10000 Half-Giants, hat's like having 2500 Archers and you'll be hard to break. You must make At least enough Half-Giants to get ridd of the message "Out people dream of bigger armies...", becaseu if you don't, the Happiness bonus isn't worth a bit. You need 15 OPA to get ridd of the message, and one moer thing. Half-Giants served me greatly when a province with little defense comes along Or to jsut break smaller ones with Raze


Emir
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(Posted as draagdnul)
Posts: 60/179
(08-Sep-2003 at 17:23)


Quote:
Umm, could you please show logic behind the orc comment. They and avians are they only 2 races with elites that have defence rating of equal or under def spec. IF anything, this change will strenghten them even more.
I couldn't have said it better! Orc's and avians have a MAJOR advantage this age because they only need elites for attacking. That will make their income much higher than the other races.
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Posts: 110/370
(08-Sep-2003 at 20:44)


i disagree with him on saying dwarves are the best attacking race. with 25% higher gains when they get bigger they will get fat easily and have no major strength when they get huge. they are easily starved in war and aren't that great. human and orc on the other hand. with the orc happiness penalty removed they're basically what they were 2 ages ago when they ruled the charts. 8/1 elites and +15% pop can just be abusive. Humans with their sci is just insane. With max schools and max sci they can probably maintain at least a 5 to 1 elite to defensive spec ratio with the warrior personality. so imo orc and human will own this age.

you know you're living in a messed up world when the best golfer is BLACK the best rapper is WHITE and even germany doesn't want to go to war- chris rock
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Posts: 27/46
Donated $1.16
(08-Sep-2003 at 21:23)
Really?

Quote:
(Originally posted by Emir)

I'm Human/Shepherd, but I disagree the first-post-Halfling description. Training Half-Giants is great. For 0/4 to 4/5 is a great thing. +25% defense. So, if you have 10000 Half-Giants, hat's like having 2500 Archers and you'll be hard to break. You must make At least enough Half-Giants to get ridd of the message "Out people dream of bigger armies...", becaseu if you don't, the Happiness bonus isn't worth a bit. You need 15 OPA to get ridd of the message, and one moer thing. Half-Giants served me greatly when a province with little defense comes along Or to jsut break smaller ones with Raze
As far as the comment that with out 15 OPA your happiness sucks, I've played a halfling pretty much since age 3. Very rarely have I stepped outside of that.

Since happiness was introduced, and last age I ran a completely Def Spec Defense, no Elites and was Euphoric 24/7.

So, I really don't see the point you are getting at, at not using Half-Giants nerfs your happiness.

As for my take on the issue, elites are more or less worthless, unless you plan on going for some attacking capablilites, Plus, for one extra point, that just makes it so I need 4 Elites instead of 5 Specs, which doesn't effect a province much, at 3k Acres you get an extra, what 3k Soldiers to play with?
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Posts: 140/162
(08-Sep-2003 at 22:30)
Re: Really?

Quote:
(Originally posted by Madrox1096)

... which doesn't effect a province much, at 3k Acres you get an extra, what 3k Soldiers to play with?
Uh, 10 500 soldiers if you count 70 raw dpa and as an t/m you'll want to have something like that.

"It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others."
#19  
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Posts: 43/48
(09-Sep-2003 at 12:20)
Quote:
with the orc happiness penalty removed they're basically what they were 2 ages ago when they ruled the charts.
Higher upkeep is gonna restrict their elite/acre. Need me to say more?
And without proper backup from a kd orc is going to get wasted.


@Emir: and you gonna pay 30k/hour for those 10k elites? i don't say it is inpossible but according to me it might be worthwile NOT to have elites and have a higher income.

@people supporting orcs/avians: you mentioned it, they depend on their elites. it will be hard for everyone to get a large elite-army. I don't say it is impossible but it will be harder to maintain. Another disadvantage they have: plunder doesn't effect your elites, people attacking with specs get a 6/0 spec.
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