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Posts: 77/109
(04-Apr-2004 at 09:06)


question Whats the meaning of elites this age?

Why have elites this age, unless ur a Avian, Orc or Undead?
Ordinary off-specs(5/0) and def-specs(0/5), is better or equal to elites, depending on wich race u are, elites could be worse than specs......AND specs r much cheaper, except for fairy..

Have i missed something? or am i right?...having NO elites this age is better in some cases....

Valek is sexy!<==that was dissapointing :'( <3<==that's a start
#1  
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Posts: 213/655
(04-Apr-2004 at 09:20)


Quote:
Have i missed something? or am i right?...having NO elites this age is better in some cases....
depends on whether u know how to use them or not...elites still have its uses...i've got no complaints.


Quote:
Ordinary off-specs(5/0) and def-specs(0/5), is better or equal to elites, depending on wich race u are, elites could be worse than specs......AND specs r much cheaper, except for fairy..
no comment.....i agree with u a little..

Black + White = no colour

Make no colour your favourite colour!

#2  
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Posts: 214/655
(04-Apr-2004 at 09:25)


plus....this is the wrong place for this thread...the right place is in the Utopia Discussions....


Black + White = no colour

Make no colour your favourite colour!

#3  
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Posts: 508/1865
(04-Apr-2004 at 09:42)


Well, let me start off by saying that the Utopia Discussions is the place for this thread. RGD (Respectable General Discussions) is mainly for non-Utopia discussion. Now, to answer your questions.

Quote:
Why have elites this age, unless ur a Avian, Orc or Undead?
Or Dwarf. Dwarves' Elites are the equivalent of having twice as much offense specs and defense specs as normal, at the same time...

Quote:
Ordinary off-specs(5/0) and def-specs(0/5), is better or equal to elites, depending on wich race u are, elites could be worse than specs......
Unless you want to reap the benefits of the personalities. Personally, I didn't. Not worth it as an Elf/Mystic.

Quote:
AND specs r much cheaper, except for fairy..
Don't you mean Halfling?

Quote:
Have i missed something? or am i right?...having NO elites this age is better in some cases....
In some, definitely.

Now, I'm going to report this thread to the Mod Thread, so it can be moved to its proper place. I don't know if it's necessary, but threads take awhile to get moved on some occasions, and it'll save them the time of looking for it, I think.

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#4  
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Posts: 47/171
(04-Apr-2004 at 09:48)


Faery is worth the elites... particularly for faery mystic... where you get better defense AND extra runes cos they will always stay at home...
#5  
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(Posted as Gillie)
Posts: 133/297
(04-Apr-2004 at 10:05)


It's the elite personality bonus that counts

#DreamWorks - You got Dreams. We make em wet.
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Posts: 110/127
(04-Apr-2004 at 15:10)


You're not a mod are u.

The meaning of elites are that they are better than specs. =P

"Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever."
Napoleon Bonaparte
#7  
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Posts: 1/1
(04-Apr-2004 at 20:45)
I went undead general (keep wishing i'd gone warrior) this round. Originally figured strats with all elite offense....finally figured out I could get more offense for less money going all spec offense. Increased my income, my offense, and put in a few houses to offset the increased size of the military (instead of TGs to keep elite cost down).
Might end up with a problem happiness wise, but we'll see.

A warrior could probably still benefit from a 50/50 elite/spec offense setup, but anything else and I'd keep elites to a minimum. Well, orc elites obviously, but the population benefit from going elites to maximize the offense per troop can easily be offset by reducing income structures that support them and putting in houses. In the long run it'll save you money too.

Of course elites offer a little defense while home too, I won't have that, but a 55 dpa raw aint to bad.
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Posts: 78/109
(05-Apr-2004 at 02:35)


Quote:
AND specs r much cheaper, except for fairy..
yes i was talking about halfling(4/4), but thought of fairy(3/6)...sorry

Im Human/merchant(4/5), so in my case, having no elites must be better, since i dont have to pay 4gc/day for an equal o-spec....

Valek is sexy!<==that was dissapointing :'( <3<==that's a start

Last edited by Gortac, 05-Apr-2004 at 02:36.
Edit reason: no reason at all
#9  
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Posts: 40/61
(05-Apr-2004 at 02:37)


dorf warrior with 10 epa sounds good...
the popint of elites is that you can turtle with them home..or at least give some random facter and force people to try and catch a som on you
#10  
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Posts: 3/23
(05-Apr-2004 at 02:44)
i'm human and i'm building my elites... not all obviously, but a portion of my army will definately be elites.
#11  
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Posts: 12/200
(05-Apr-2004 at 03:24)


i have 50/50 elites/spec as avian warrior. which is 4.5 def per unit, instead of 2.5 def per unit and 3 off per unit instead 2.5 off per unit(if full spec army), thats not including the personality elite bonus. im pretty small at the mo and my dpa raw is over 60, so im reasonably happy with that
#12  
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Posts: 534/1301
(05-Apr-2004 at 03:35)
I'll probably have close to all elite army eventully as faery rogue, the 3/6 elites are better than /5 def specs

Pegster- Vanquisher of animals, wrestler of humans and succumber to high heels!
#13  
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Posts: 79/109
(05-Apr-2004 at 03:38)


Quote:
Im Human/merchant(4/5), so in my case, having no elites must be better, since i dont have to pay 4gc/day for an equal o-spec....
..again im wrong, i was meaning equal D-SPEC, my o-specs beats my elites...(soon im gonna get warned for spamming.....)

Valek is sexy!<==that was dissapointing :'( <3<==that's a start
#14  
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(Posted as final judgement)
Research Group
Posts: 102/1382
(05-Apr-2004 at 03:40)


Quote:
(Originally posted by Pegster)

I'll probably have close to all elite army eventully as faery rogue, the 3/6 elites are better than /5 def specs
post a cb of yourself, i want to c wtf your doing so that u can support yourself with all elites, im running 50/50 and making 15K an hour!

(600 acers)

I'm 1970's pimp smooth...
#15  
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Posts: 108/172
(05-Apr-2004 at 03:44)


Quote:
(Originally posted by Pegster)

I'll probably have close to all elite army eventully as faery rogue, the 3/6 elites are better than /5 def specs
Yup same here, ive already got 2k elites plus 1k intraining only 6k specs left :P. ill see how far i can go. If money becomes a problem ill stop but untill then the plan is all elites. Not only are my elites better (deffensively - TM) plus i get extra protection from AW and such because of rogue bonus.

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#16  
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Posts: 535/1301
(05-Apr-2004 at 03:44)
Quote:
(Originally posted by final judgement)

post a cb of yourself, i want to c wtf your doing so that u can support yourself with all elites, im running 50/50 and making 15K an hour!

(600 acers)
I don''t have all elite now, not even close to, but i will have it eventually, i am gradually converting my def specs to elites

Right now I have 5500 def specs and 1500 elites on 700 acres, and earn 18k an hour.

There's a nice little thing called ToG, and thieving money is another possibility if you can't make enough money to support an all elite army.

Pegster- Vanquisher of animals, wrestler of humans and succumber to high heels!
#17  
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Posts: 29/52
(05-Apr-2004 at 04:09)
The meaning of elites comes in 5 forms.

Orcs to maintain an incredibly high offensive force, modified the elites are just gross, the elites depending on personality can end up being 10/2 or 11/2. I dont think i really need to explain what you use those for.

Undead to also maintain some damaging force. They are 6/3 and honostly, this age id swear that the chances to catch the plague are much greater then previously. In the end you can make these offensively around 8/3 or 9/3 depending on personality. Again, really no need to expand on the many uses.

Avians to do anything they want. The elites are 6/4, and they are also dangerous with attack or defense, getting up to 8/4 or 9/4 depending on personality. This matched with their enhanced speed will allow them to hit you 3 times a day out of war if you are close to them isle wise.

Faerys as usual have the highest defensive elite at 3/6. This should come as no suprise that this paired with rogue or mystic makes them pretty difficult to break. Seeing as how they can pump up their elites to 3/7 or 3/8 again varying on personality. A faery mage can essentially go 2 tpa and leave the rest of the thievery defense to clearsight, WTs, and elite defense as long as they are using the rogue personality. Meanwhile a faery mystic will have to pump more thieves, but still going all elites will produce enough runes to make 1 of any spell per hour, and with towers that equates to 2 spells per hour. I would refuse to war an all faery kingdom this age, in 1 day of getting prepped for them changing their buildings over, they will come into hostile with the rune capacity to cast 48 fireballs/meteor showers/tornados each. Ill be the first to admit, i may be a good player, but i am definately not good enough to fend off that many assaults as an atatcker. A kingdom of half mystic and half rogue would produce enough runes altogether to give everyone enough runes to cast maximum spells.

The last would be halflings. While they are changing to specs now, they used the elites to boost em up, and honostly, even now, a lot of halflings still use them because it makes their NW seem too large for their size so most will pass over them simply because it would be a waste of mana or stealth to look at a province that problably has maximum specs (or so it may appear).

Im not saying that humans, elves, and dwarves cant use their elites, its just that this age its highly impractical for human or dwarves unless going merchant, and even more so for an elf who is afflicted with the problem of the weak halfling elites but the same possibilities as the faery rogue/mystic.
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Posts: 520/1865
(05-Apr-2004 at 05:14)


Quote:
Im not saying that humans, elves, and dwarves cant use their elites, its just that this age its highly impractical for human or dwarves unless going merchant, and even more so for an elf who is afflicted with the problem of the weak halfling elites but the same possibilities as the faery rogue/mystic.
Do I have to say it yet again?

Okay, picture a Dwarf at 1000 Acres with 10,000 off. specs and 10,000 def. specs. This person would have 50,000 raw offense and 50,000 raw defense. However! The same person at 1000 acres with 20,000 Elites would have 100,000 offense and 100,000 defense! When their entire army is home, they have as much the offense AND defense as a specialist army because they are the same in each department, they can fill both positions and be twice as strong in each field!

Cut to: Attacker. He's 1200 Acres and a bit of a bottomfeeder, with 60,000 Offense and 60,000 Defense (all specs). He spots two Dwarves at 1000 acres. First he gets a CB of the Elite Dwarf. His jaw drops. "100 raw DPA?! This guy's a madman! I won't attack him, he'll crush me!" So the guy goes and gets the CB of the second Dwarf. "Hmm... This guy is much weaker in each field, and the limit on the troops he can send out is 50,000! I can hit him without retal!" So he promptly sends out all his offense specs and the Dwarf now has a much higher OPA and DPA, in the way he did not want.

Okay, now, let's cut to a new scenario: AttackING. Both Dwarves, again, at the same 1000 Acres, one with 50,000 Offense and 50,000 Defense (all in specialists) and the second at 100,000 Offense and 100,000 Defense (all in Elites). Their target, a Halfling just under their size with 30,000 mod Defense. The Specialist province is happy, of course, because he gets to make the grab and promptly does so. However, since the remainder of his offense specialists contribute ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to his defense when left at home, he is left with the same 50,000 defense and with no offense as a deterrent, what's to happen?

Now, the next scenario is identical. Same target province, attacker is the 1000-acre Dwarf... With Elites. The Dwarf can send 6,000 Elites with his Generals and make the grab! What's more, because he kept 14,000 Elites at home, he now has 70 DPA at home, quite the force to deter enemy attacks!

Third scenario, cut to: Faery. This Faery is sitting at 900 acres with 60,000 defense, quite impressive. Anyway... This defensive force, unfortunately for Specialist province, is too much of a deterrence for him to attack with his measly 50,000 offense. He is forced to withdraw, and is more vulnerable to attackers than this Faery, of course the Faery is a T/M, so that is exemplified.

However, the Elite Dwarf has 100,000 total Offense, and although it would be taking directly from his defense and leaving him with less defense than the other Dwarf, he is able to make the land grab.

What did you learn here?

What I was trying to teach you is that not only does the Dwarf have twice as much defense and offense with all Elites as he would with half-and-half with the same number of troops, BUT since the offense and defense are directly linked to the same troop, he is allowed to freely cut into one to increase the other (to make more defense you can send less offense, and vice versa), much unlike the specialists which have no value other than, well, their specialty, and it is this flexibility that makes the Dwarf Elite clearly superior over the others, which unlike the Dwarf do not have both the offensive and defensive properties equaling the Specialists!

Of course, it is also because of this that other than Dwarves are the only critters that can rely on an all-Elite army other than Humans, who might not want to, and Halflings, who might be better off not doing so... Elves, Avians, Undead, and Orcs all have too little defensive value to rely on all Elites, and the Faery, well, should use all Elites if they can afford it. Halfling Elites are easily accessible, but unfortunately they are weak and it takes a complex system [that I have concocted] to make up for the lack of defense, and Humans are useless mages, making them only useful for Attacking and Thievery; With an all-Elite army, they are strictly Thieves because of their lack of an offensive force.

So for the last time in this post, I say Dwarves are the best and only Elite you can rely on COMPLETELY (depending on whether you're half-decent at the game or not).

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#19  
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Posts: 777/1232
(05-Apr-2004 at 07:41)


The best thing for a dwarf would be to have 50/50 def spec/elite because they wouldn't send out those extra elites anyway since that would be a suicide.
#20  
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