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Posts: 199/289
(07-Jan-2003 at 07:42)


Quote:
(Originally posted by ton4052)

why would some people are willing to blow themselves up for a piece on land...(not gonna happen in utopia)
I guess you meant, "why would some people be willing to blow themselves up for a peice of land"?

Well, most wars are based on land ownership. So Im not sure exactly what you are getting at.

You seemed surprised and almost moked the fact that people fight over land?

As I have said, that is one of the main (if not the main) reason to start wars.

"If War is state sponsored Terrorism, then isnt Taxation state sponsored Robbery?"
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Posts: 200/289
(07-Jan-2003 at 07:44)


Quote:
(Originally posted by ton4052)

to tell u the truth...without religion...there won't be wars...i agree...but taking it away...does it help?
Of course there will still be wars if there was no religion...

And you wonder why people get upset with other people, when people make claims like that???

"If War is state sponsored Terrorism, then isnt Taxation state sponsored Robbery?"

Last edited by D Man, 07-Jan-2003 at 07:45.
Edit reason: Spelling
#242  
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(Posted as Lord Drizzt)
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(07-Jan-2003 at 10:24)


relgion is not the cause of wars, just the excuse. for example, look at the crusades. they werent fighting for jerusalem and god, rather goods, riches, land, and other things. why did osama attack the US? he states his reason is religion. if you study his cult then study the qu'ran, you would discover that he changed a whole lot of things. whoop, big excuse to gain support of muslims.
without religions, would there be wars? of course. different excuses, though.

s o u l f i r e
#243  
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(Posted as Phoenix BD)
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(07-Jan-2003 at 15:49)


I disagree. If there were no religions, people wouldn't be as different as they are. Therefore, less differences = less discrimination = less violence. If there was no religion Osama and other terrorists couldn't get people to die for them. They wouldn't go to heaven and have 70 virgins. So people would feel no motivation to go blow themselves up. Wouldn't they notice though, that Osama isn't blowing himself up for the cause. Youv would think he would want 70 virgins too.

Life is a test and I get bad marks.
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(07-Jan-2003 at 16:14)


I agree with Phoenix. Religion is and has been tearing the world apart- physicaly spiritualy and mentaly.

And religion isn't an excuse for wars. It is the cause of these wars. If everyone had the same religion, we might as well had 10 universal countries or so.
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(07-Jan-2003 at 23:59)


Quote:
(Originally posted by Phoenix BD)
I disagree. If there were no religions, people wouldn't be as different as they are. Therefore, less differences = less discrimination = less violence. If there was no religion Osama and other terrorists couldn't get people to die for them. They wouldn't go to heaven and have 70 virgins. So people would feel no motivation to go blow themselves up. Wouldn't they notice though, that Osama isn't blowing himself up for the cause. Youv would think he would want 70 virgins too.
You're all debating over the institution and the extremists. Is everyone just neglecting the faith itself?

When Osama propsed the jihad, he backed his excuses up with how Western culture was contaminating their lands and how Americans had no respect for them or their culture. 70 virgins is no excuse to blow yourself up. There was more to the cult than that.

If there is no religion, maybe there would be less differences. But, there is also a flipside to it. With all bad, there is good. With all good, there is bad. There may also be more poor, homeless, hungry, etc. There may also be more conflicts and violence. Religion does more than create differences. Most faiths give morals, values, ethics, etc. They help the needy and support those that need help or counsel.

Before I go on, are you reffering to religion as the institution, or religion as the faith itself?
-=-=-=-=-=-
Quote:
I agree with Phoenix. Religion is and has been tearing the world apart- physicaly spiritualy and mentaly.

And religion isn't an excuse for wars. It is the cause of these wars. If everyone had the same religion, we might as well had 10 universal countries or so.
Religion, politics, economics, soceity, enviroment, people, and almost everything else has been tearing the world apart. Yet, they all contribute to the healing and better of the world in their own form.

Please tell me some examples of how religion is the direct cause, and remained the only direct cause of the wars you say.

Wait, if everyone had the same religion? Didn't you just say religion was tearing our world apart? First you say it's bad, then good... make up your mind!

In brightest day, in blackest night, No evil shall escape my sight.
Let those who worship evil's might, Beware my power, Green Lantern's Light
Slave of Justara
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#246  
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(08-Jan-2003 at 18:37)
I though that this was about existence of God, not what people do with it.

Like crussades, jihad and 1950's jewish terrorism in Israel. I think they all have Abraham in their history, but really can see where "You shall not kill", fits in the above examples.

So, is this getting on track or what?
Lets get this to be one of this one of those religious discussions where people want to kill each other (in a way, makes me think maybe I should retract my 1 statement).

Maybe killing other people is right, I guess religion either is right or it isn't (regardless of the contradictions). If you believe something to be divine and right, that might be the definition of right and no matter how nice you think, you are wrong!

Even if all the expert agreed they might still be wrong.
Blinder then the blind man is the man that does not want to see. Convictions have hurt more the truth then lies.
The supreme victory is to win without doing battle.- Sun Tzu

Live each day as if it was your last. One day you will be right!
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(09-Jan-2003 at 04:18)
[
PHP Code:
PHP]Nothe word "Palestinian" isn't in the bible for Palestine wasn't formed yet
[/php]


Just a quick comment....Palestine is found in the bible in Joel chapter 3 verse 4, Exodus chapter 15 verse 14, Isaiah chapter 14 verse 29 and 31 King James Version.
#248  
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(09-Jan-2003 at 04:48)
FOOOllls of course deres god...
go read the bible.......
#249  
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(09-Jan-2003 at 05:05)
Whats wif all the teasing of other religons..
No1 knows what religon is right but we still beleive the religon we follow. we folow it cause in our hearts we know whats true about it.

Atheist, they beleive theres no god...
because they beleive what they want to beleive

Christains beleive that jesus is the son of god and so do i.
I didnt beleive it cause sum1 juss told me, i beleive it cause i go to church, read the bible and pray.but whatever any1 says, in my heart i will always beleive that jesus is the son of god

Muslims beleive that Muhammad is the last prohet, and
talked to god and angels.


Each religon has proof on what they beleive in,no1 noes which one is true but when d day comes evry1 will know..
#250  
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(Posted as Phoenix BD)
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(09-Jan-2003 at 08:20)


If any of you checked the Creation vs. Evolution thread I posted this :

************************************************** **********

God creates animals and then man - Gen 1:25-26
God creates man and then the animals - Gen 2:18-19

------------------------------------------------------------

Arpachshad's son was Shelah - Gen 11:12
Arpachshad's grandson was Shelah - Luke 3:35-36

------------------------------------------------------------

Noah takes 7 pairs of each type of animal onto the ark - Gen 7:2-3
Noah takes one pair of animal onto the ark - Gen 6:19

------------------------------------------------------------

Terah's lifespan.
According to Gen 11:26, Terah was 70 when Abraham was born and Abraham was 75 when he left Haran. Therefore he lived 70 years (ie. his age when Abraham was born) plus 75 years (the age of Abraham when he left Haran - as stated in Gen 12:4). He did not live beyond this as Acts 7:4 states Terah was dead when Abraham left Haran. So 70 + 75 = 145 years in total. However, Gen 11:32 states he lived 205 years.

------------------------------------------------------------

God promises Abraham the land of Canaan to live in - Gen 17:8
God did not allow Abraham to live in the promised land - Acts 7:5, Heb 11:8,9,13

************************************************** **********

The Bible is not a 100% correct document, therefore, it disproves the Christian God, he is perfect in every way so how can he give different information to different people?

Also these are examples of God breaking his own Commandments :

************************************************** **********

All forms of life destroyed because of one imperfect species - Genesis 6:5,7, 7:23.

Human sacrifice commanded by God - Leviticus 27:28,29.

God agrees that Jephthah sacrifices his daughter as a thanksgiving - Judges 11:29-40.

God sends ten plagues on Egypt because Pharaoh won't release the Hebrews, but he deliberately hardens Pharaoh's heart so he refuses to release the Hebrews making these plagues necessary in the first place - God admits this is so he can perform 'his wonders' (Exodus 11:9), ie. wholesale mass slaughter of life in Egypt - Exodus 7:3-4,13-14, 10:1,20.

God sanctions slavery and a man selling his daughter - Exodus 21:2- 6,7.

Death demanded for heresy - Deuteronomy 13:1,2,5,14,15.

God says that if a man strikes 'his slave', male or female, and they do not die immediately, the man shall not be punished because 'the slave is his money (ie. property)' - Exodus 21:20-21.

God orders people to slaughter their own relatives because they rejected Moses' religion; 3000 killed. Moses tells the killers that God would bless them for doing this by making them ordained for his service - Exodus 32:27-29.
A person to kill their own family for a difference of religion - Deuteronomy 13:6-10.

God demands death for anyone not circumcised - Genesis 17:9-14.

God demands the sick are to be driven out of the community - Numbers 5:1-4.

God burns people to death for complaining - Numbers 11:1.

God kills 24,000 people by a plague because one of them brought a Midianite woman to his tent - Numbers 25:6-9.

The curses of God upon the Hebrews (e.g. eating their own children) - Leviticus 26:14-39, Deuteronomy 28:15-68.

God arranges the Midianite slaughter - Judges 7:2,9,22.
(Note: Numbers 31:1-18 states that God instructed the mass slaughter of Midianites, and the Lord "slew every male", alongwith their rulers (31:7), and the Midianite women and children and animals were captured; Moses (God's mouthpiece - Numbers 12:6-8), then demands all the males, including babies and the women were to be slaughtered, but the young girls could be "kept alive for yourselves" (31:18). This story records the extermination of the Midianites, but later on, God AGAIN instructs the slaugher of the Midianites (Judges 6:16), It is the same with the
Amalekites - they are "ALL destroyed" in 1 Samuel 15:8, but they are destroyed yet again in 1 Samuel 27:8-9 and everyone - men and women - are killed; however, they are killed (- for the 3rd time) in 1 Samuel 30:1,16-17 except for 400 young men. At long last, they are are finally killed off in 1 Chronicles 4:43 when the 'remnant' were destroyed.

The Spirit of God comes upon Samson and he murders over a thousand people - Judges 14:19, 15:14-15.

The Psalmist praises God for his 'steadfast love' but then details his slaughtering in the past - Psalm 136:10-21.

God deliberately deludes people so they will not be saved - 2 Thess 2:11-12.

A girl not found to be a virgin was to be killed - Deuteronomy 22:13- 21 (Note the same did not apply to men).

God kills a baby for its father's wrongdoing - ignoring the father's pleas - 2 Samuel 12:15-20.

God kills 70,000 men - 2 Samuel 24:15.
was only God's mouthpiece (Numbers 12:6-8).

God has a friendly meeting with his arch enemy Satan - whom he doesn't even recognise - Job 1:6-7, and they have a wager (Job 1:8-12) over how much suffering it would take before righteous Job will reject God. Job then has his whole family killed and livelihood ruined (1:13-19) and then is afflicted by a loathsome plague (2:7-8).

************************************************** **********

Now if this isn't evidnece that men wrote the Bible for their own interests, i.e. Slavery, the slaughter of enemies, favor of the rich because only the poor would complain, killing of a non-virgin girl although it didn't apply to men, I don't know what is.

God delludes people so they deliberatley won't be saved? Now that doesn't seem all-forgiving to me. God all-knowing? He met Satan and didn't even know it, then ruined Job's life with a wager with the devil. Also I hope your circumsised cause God doesn't want you in heaven if you're not .

Life is a test and I get bad marks.

Last edited by Hurleyy, 09-Jan-2003 at 08:23.
#251  
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(Posted as Phoenix BD)
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(09-Jan-2003 at 11:17)


Did I scare all the churchies away or are you just not here?

Life is a test and I get bad marks.
#252  
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(09-Jan-2003 at 11:19)
How people believe in God is just beyond me,
A god that hides from us while he sits on puffy clouds and sends down 10 rules written in stone (what happened to those) and if we dont obey those rules we are sent down to hell!

I have heard people say "well what made all this shit around us!"
Can you imagine FOREVER? The time between your birth and now is NOTHING compared to the time & rolls of dice it took to stumble upon this galaxy we live in today.
Elements found here on Earth are found out in space (to the idiot who asked about the creation of water, you need a science book.)



I want a God who stays dead not plays dead - D.W.
#253  
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(Posted as Lord Drizzt)
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(09-Jan-2003 at 12:36)


phoenix check in the creation vs. evolution thread. i posted my reply there.

s o u l f i r e
#254  
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(09-Jan-2003 at 12:53)


there was this book i read abt how some ppl were trying to prove whether god exist by the laws of deduction. it's kinda funny though. see if it makes any sense to u.

the fact that u are arguing abt whether there is a god proves that there is a god. for example, u have a cup of plain water in it. a guy comes up and says there is no sugar in the cup. the person had no way of knowing whether there was any sugar inside. but when the person said there is no sugar in the water, he has already acknowledged the FACT that there is a substance called sugar. so comparing this to the arguement of whether god exist, the fact that u said god doesn't exist proves that god exists!

haha. cool huh? but of course there are some loop holes in the arguement above. sugar is a physical quantity whereas god is spiritual.
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(09-Jan-2003 at 12:58)


freak I don't belive in any god

NO

Elf with lots of self spells in Essence of MYTH
Proud to be the Wife of the sweet and lovely Aerath
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#256  
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(09-Jan-2003 at 14:53)


teeth

den u are admiting there IS a god! LOL.
#257  
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(Posted as Mokkan)
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(09-Jan-2003 at 14:59)
I believe in God. I'm glad I do, too.
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(Posted as BadReligion)
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(09-Jan-2003 at 15:27)
freak

I think the whole thing about Jesus is BS, why does he never show himsefl. the chiristians have many times said that god will come back and take the people that belives in him to heaven . Well, how long have you guys waited now 2003 years... in my school it's about 20 people of 350 that belives in god, so the future doesn't look good for the church.
and btw. christans people is all brainwhased, it's been proven that it wasen't god that made the earth, get over it!
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(Posted as Phoenix BD)
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(09-Jan-2003 at 15:46)


Lord Drizzt those examples I posted are just a few out of many. Not all can be considered a tranlsation mistake, because they don't involve numbers. Ill be back to post them. And you STILL didn't answer on why God breaks his own commandments.

Life is a test and I get bad marks.
#260  
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