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Posts: 1/2
(31-Dec-2002 at 16:37)
I do belive in God. And I belive the only way to be saved and achieve a place in heaven is thru Jesus Christ. Ouch closemined christian? What are you going to tell me that everyone is going to heaven as long as what they belive in something and truly beleive it. So basically you think you are good enough to go to heaven. I am not but thats the reason for the sacrific. I know yall must of heard this a thousand times but if I truly believe what i believe as somebody has said it to me then I would believe all this that I have been thinking. I am not a public speaker but dont slam the bible if you havnt read it. Not all christians are the same. There are some that are christians only in name. I believe salvation IS for everybody but there is only one way to do that.
#81  
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(31-Dec-2002 at 16:54)


There were quite a few interesting and good arguments made and I like the way some of you guys think.

I believe that there is a higher being, may you call it god or something else. I was raised without a proper religon, but I have made my own decisions in this regard and have my own beliefs now. I do not believe in any of the religions as such, but what I really don't believe in is the way a lot of religions are practiced. No offense to anyone. I'm not saying all people of any reliogon are bad, it's just that some people give it a bad name.

I am half German and half Arab, but I don't follow either religon. If you look closely at any religion you will find that they are not what you thought they were. There is a lot of wrong information floating around and makes the religions look bad.

I see religions a bit different. They are there to help people to deal with life and possibly guide them. One thing I personnaly have a problem with is that in all religions you have "leaders" (priests, Imams, etc.)that try to tell you what the religion is all about. In my opinion, everyone has to make their own decision of how they understand the religion and follow their own way!

There were a few comments, criticizing christianity for crusades and slavery and religions in general for things like terrorism and wars. -> Please remenber, no religion can do such a thing, as it is a belief! These things were commited by men/women and you cannot blame a religion for their actions!

I know there are people who take religions as an excuse for their crimes/terrorism, but they don't believe in any religion at all! They only want to reacha goal by any means!

I don't know if I actually make sense here, but I just wanted to share my thoughts on this.
#82  
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(31-Dec-2002 at 17:16)


What is up with the religion threads? We already have like 5 of these...
Quote:
I do belive in God. And I belive the only way to be saved and achieve a place in heaven is thru Jesus Christ.
Now, before I totally go out on you tell me your beliefs on these:
  • Stillbirths
  • People who've never heard of Jesus
  • Jews
  • Agnostics
  • People who have had bad experiences with Christians and relate that experience to the faith, therefore shunning it
  • Who would be more likely to go to heaven- A good atheist who's helped the poor all his life and done good deeds, or the serial killer Christian?
-=--=-=-=-
Quote:
when jesus (while he was crucified) said "oh god why have you left me?" isnt he comitting a sin?
thinking that god has left him
It was a part of a Psalm. I forget which one, but it was a psalm of saying how God is always there. The gospels writers only put down the first few words if they did.
-=---=-=-=-=
Quote:
I believe the bible is 100% accurate, barring difficulties in translation and places where language used it metaphor.
Before I make a complete rebuttle, tell me your views:
  • Which version, type, and pusblished version of the bible is 100% accurate?
  • Why do the gospels contradict on quotes if 100% accurate?
  • Why does the bible contradict in several places? Like here
-=-=-=-=-=-=
I do believe in God, although I know that many organized religions are hypocrites.

And as far as the whole archaeologist thing goes. They're not positive, it's speculation.

P.S. Did you know that earth is flat and the center of the universe? And if you sail west from europe you'll go straight to india? My point is that countless scientific "facts" have been proven false at later times, Christianity has survived over 2 millenia and changed the world more than anything else, and that can't be disputed.
[/quote]
Exactly how am I for example a hippocrite? I don't believe the earth is flat, neither do most modern Christians. Please tell me how being a Christians is hippocricy, and don't try to reference the past actions of other Christians, for religions evolves over time.
-=-=-=--=-
Quote:
snotzombie i believe in a higher power.

However, i am also vehemently opposed to most organised religion. I don't see how anyone could believe in things that are so illogical.

my 2 cents =p
Tell me what exactly I believe in is illogical.
-=----=-
Quote:
Phoenix BD Yes but I said you can debate evidence of whether there is or isn't a god, and if the bible s correct or not.

Did anyone know that archaeologists believe that the story of Moses could not have happened. Everyone knows the story of Moses, he was born a Jewish slave and sent down the river in a basket to avoid being killed and was adopted by the family of the Pharoah. God spoke to him through a bush and told him to set free the slaves.

Well archaeologists said that they found the records for the pyramids and it turns out that there is no evidence that Egyptians held Jewish slaves. The people who built the pyramids, were actually paid egyptian laborers, not Jewish slaves who were made to believe built the pyramids for the Egyptians. So doesn't this put an end to one of the biggest Bible stories there is?
That depends. How far back does the evidence point to, and is there a possibility that the evidence may be circumstantial in that the Jews were in Egyptians clothes and used Egyptian tools, or that there was a misinterpretation in evidence? There could also be the possibility that it was talking of another Egyptian city where the Jews were enslaved than where the evidence was found. Aren't there pyramids all over Egypt?
-=---=-
Quote:
Just out of curiousity can u prove I exist? How?
I see your typing as a reference point. At that, you stated "I" meaning you. Since you referenced yourself, you must exist to reference.
-=-=--
Quote:
"I think therefore I am"
Not entirely true. You must have a reference point to think from. No reference point, no thought. There wouldn't even be a definition to the word thought.
-=--=-
Quote:
But that difference is that he is real. God isn't it. I can prove Ben exists. I can't prove the existance of Ben.
Can you prove God isn't real? Can you prove time is real? Suppose some higher being is on a different plane as time is, or another plane of existance. How do you prove otherwise?


OK... that's it for now. I have to go check my utopia account.

In brightest day, in blackest night, No evil shall escape my sight.
Let those who worship evil's might, Beware my power, Green Lantern's Light
Slave of Justara
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#83  
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(Posted as Moamil)
Posts: 6/203
(31-Dec-2002 at 17:50)


I think that people around the world in different countries and with different cultures can not take the idea that all the universe is made up without any special power supporting it.
However, if people believe in god...I don'nt know why they have to assume that he set rules!
Maybe he just created this world for people to live in!
Maybe the people in the past that claimed that they are "prophets" and "massengers from god" are just trying to be common or trying to force their ideas on other people.
I am not saying that they were not great, they were because of all the great works they have done.

But at the end of the day at least a person has an idea to refer to, in times of need and in times of sorrow, just to calm ourselves down.
#84  
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(Posted as Phoenix BD)
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(31-Dec-2002 at 20:43)


There was a whole thing on the discovery or history channel about the Moses story. They said there was no records of any Jewish slaves in Egypt at the time when Moses story was to take place. Also, a big part of the story of Moses, is the Jewish slaves building the pyramids. Now they found records that say paid Egyptian laborers built the pyramids. That would contradict the entire story of Moses.

Life is a test and I get bad marks.
#85  
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(Posted as Digi Kid Izzy)
Posts: 399/4024
(31-Dec-2002 at 20:49)


Yeah, Egyption Laborers were the once that build the pyramids. The Egyptions felt that the inferior jews were not worthy to build the pyramids for their pharoahs.

Izzy is back and older than ever!
#86  
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(31-Dec-2002 at 20:58)


here is a quote from the movie "Dogma" that expresses my thoughts very well...

That poem, "The Walrus and the Carpenter" that's an indictment of organized religion. The walrus, with his girth and his good nature, he obviously represents either Buddha, or...or with his tusk, the Hindu elephant god, Lord Ganesha. That takes care of your Eastern religions. Now the carpenter, which is an obvious reference to Jesus Christ, who was raised a carpenter's son, he represents the Western religions. Now in the poem, what do they do...what do they do? They...They dupe all these oysters into following them and then proceed to shuck and devour the helpless creatures en masse. I don't know what that says to you, but to me it says that following these faiths based on mythological figures ensure the destruction of one's inner-being.
Organized religion destroys who we are by inhibiting our actions...by inhibiting our decisions, out of...out of fear of some...some intangible parent figure who...who shakes a finger at us from thousands of years ago and says...and says, "Do it--Do it and I'll fuckin' spank you!"
#87  
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Posts: 29/30
(31-Dec-2002 at 21:26)


Here is something very interesting I noticed in history.

During world war 2, Hitler had his SS officers. They gave orders to other soldires under the excuse, We follow hitler, We are the word of hiter, so you follow us like you would follow hitler or you will feel the wrath of hitler

Joseph Stalin- leader of the USSR had Commisars. These people told other soldires, We follow stalin, We are the word of stalin, so you follow us like you would follow stalin or you will feel the wrath of stalin

The chruch has priests, leaders of parishes ect. they say: the church is the word of god, so you follow the church like you would follow god or you will feel the wrath of god and go to hell and be in a lot of pain

Can anyone notice a small similarity in this? and since many churches have considerable wealth and power, just like the two unsavory characters above. The church, roman catholic, protestant, and all denonimations, (but I dont know whether this is true for muslim budhism, hindu or any others cos we had an RE teacher who was obsessed with convering us to christianaty). It also seemed to work since the chruches controlled an entire continent of several centuries

How can we take the bible as truth, since it is a book that has been copied loads of times, and almost all evidence is in the same book with very little physical proof. I think it is a piece of propaganda, to keep people under control, and keep the churches (and church leaders) having considerable power and influence over the ordinary people

try this. try imagining what being dead is like if heaven and hell dosent exist. it would be nothing. If you came back to life 1 million years later, you woud think you died last second. The human brain can not deal with being shut down, so heaven and hell was devised so people didnt have to deal with the possible of an iternaty of unconsiousness.

Blood is the price of Victory - Otto von Bismark

FTF #2 - Gen Edwards,
FTF Commisar.
#88  
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Posts: 2/2
(31-Dec-2002 at 21:40)
To reply to your questions AznBlade.

For one thing i think several times you only took a small section of what somone wrote and left the rest out that would explain their views.

I couldnt find the exact verse but the bible talks about accountablity and young children and those who have not heared of christ would not be held accountable and would have there own place in heaven.

Jews: If you are talking about jew as a race then it is the same as all other races each individual just has to make the decision, but if you are talking about the jewish religion then no unless they have been saved thru Jesus.

Agnositics: ignoring something doesnt mean it isnt there so they would be in the same boat.

All people who profess to be christian are not necessarly christian themselves. Someone just say they are because there friends or family are. But the God doesnt call us to be luke warm. The alsobible doesnt say to mock or scorn nonbeleivers, or any body. I am not perfect and dont deserve a place in heaven but Jesus has payed my way and yours. I am only 16 but I know what I believe, I have seen people who go to church and fca or what ever then talk trash to some geek or freak. God has love for everyone my own friends are largly not christian and I dont conform to secular things and they accept me.

It doesnt matter if you killed Billy Graham God would still forgive you and works alone will not buy you a ticket into heaven.
#89  
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(Posted as Phoenix BD)
Posts: 180/2385
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(31-Dec-2002 at 22:07)


Heres a question that backs up Gen Edwards. Would you rather die and go to hell, or die and cease to exist? I for one would rather go to hell then cease to exist indefinately. I would atleast be in a state aware of myself and what I am doing. Now all, or most religions, have some type of heaven and hell. There is always somewhere you go to after you die. Buddhism you are reborn again and again so essentially you are still alive. But maybe all these were created because people can't deal with the fact that we might just cease to exist when we die. In Christianity, even the evil people get to live on after death in hell, which is far better than no life at all.

Life is a test and I get bad marks.

Last edited by Hurleyy, 31-Dec-2002 at 22:08.
#90  
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(Posted as Brend AA)
Posts: 143/1003
(31-Dec-2002 at 22:10)
The only time I'd ever believe in a god would be if a person of that religion proved to me that their god did not exist. Until that point, it is impossible to say that a god exists.

Deliverance | IRC: #deliverance

Why should I blame her that she filled my day/With misery, or that she would of late/Have taught ignorant men most violent ways
#91  
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(31-Dec-2002 at 23:04)


Oi... Been awhile. Hmm... I love these controversial threads... I, for one, do not believe in God. But that's just because I can be a real cynical bastard sometimes when it comes to something that made everything that we know of in seven days. I just feel like God must be one twisted guy with a messed up sense of humor if He does exist.

I'm not paranoid... I'm just observant.
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(31-Dec-2002 at 23:13)


however I do find the bible to be a good story, whether it is more than a story or not is really up to you as far as I am concerned.

I'm not paranoid... I'm just observant.
#93  
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(Posted as Digi Kid Izzy)
Posts: 400/4024
(31-Dec-2002 at 23:20)


Aether, I completely agree with you. He must have some sick sense of human. According to christian people:

If an atheist did the following:
Destroyed Pollution
Destroyed Hunger
Destroyed Greed
Destroyed Disease

That person would still go to hell. I mean, shessh, just cuz he does'nt believe in god? That's just sick shit.

Izzy is back and older than ever!
#94  
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(31-Dec-2002 at 23:34)


Oh, aye. I agree with you on that but by sick sense of humor I meant more along the lines of why he would find it necessary to put a six year old's grandma in a car wreck, then into a coma for three days, and then put her into a cardiac arrest... and then make that kids life hell ever after... I mean I was just a six year old kid who had to watch his grandma wither away like some diseased rose... har de har har har... sick bastard...

I'm not paranoid... I'm just observant.
#95  
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Posts: 149/728
(31-Dec-2002 at 23:49)
Quote:
"I think therefore I am"
Not entirely true. You must have a reference point to think from. No reference point, no thought. There wouldn't even be a definition to the word thought.
The basis for Cogito Ergo Sum was that Descartes sat down and tried to come up with something that he knew was true. Without using definitions (like Carbon has 6 protons), he came up with I Think I Exist as a statement of irrifutable truth, and from there comes "i think therefore i am"
#96  
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Posts: 150/728
(31-Dec-2002 at 23:57)
Quote:
P.S. Did you know that earth is flat and the center of the universe? And if you sail west from europe you'll go straight to india? My point is that countless scientific "facts" have been proven false at later times, Christianity has survived over 2 millenia and changed the world more than anything else, and that can't be disputed.
That was back in the olden days, when the church had a heap of power, and science pretty much didnt exits, i.e. there was no chemistry, no physchology, physics was very limited, and an astronomer who came up with something got punished by the church. Since the church was the loudest opposition to the 'round world' ideas anyway...
Thankfully, somebody at some stage in history with some power managed to work out that the church wasn't really capable of looking after mankind, hence its separation from any real power. This was after they pretty much held back the world for a thousand years, until the rennaisance. (i think there still holding it back...look at genetics and stem cell research)
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(01-Jan-2003 at 00:00)


Quote:
Can anyone notice a small similarity in this? and since many churches have considerable wealth and power, just like the two unsavory characters above. The church, roman catholic, protestant, and all denonimations, (but I dont know whether this is true for muslim budhism, hindu or any others cos we had an RE teacher who was obsessed with convering us to christianaty). It also seemed to work since the chruches controlled an entire continent of several centuries
the same goes for most other governments. the police say we take orders from government. we r the word (law) of the government. if u dont listen to us, u will get the wrath of the government. is it just me or do u have something against organized heirarchy...

also, i was not aware any scientist or theologian proved who and how they built the pyramids, henceforth, one of the greatest mysteries. as the bible was written (old testiment) when the egytian were around, it would be the credible source.

and, if some one has never heard of God, or never had the spirit knocking on their door, they would be judged by God for what each has done. (i believe)

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"Light travels faster than sound, so
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#98  
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Posts: 34/42
(01-Jan-2003 at 00:10)


I don't know if this has been said in here all ready, haven't had time to review it yet, but I feel that christianity is a way of controlling the masses. That, or it has been perverted so much that it has become that. The way I see it, the only separation between church and state is that church works better. I mean it only makes sense. Without church, a man would kill someone and then spend about sixty-some-odd years in jail, with it a man would kill someone and then spend sixty-some-odd years in jail followed by the rest of eternity in the flames of hell... *shrug*

And then there is the whole rest of eternity thing. How can there be a rest of eternity? Eternity doesn't end. I am trying to figure it out but so far I can't see how eternity could have a beginning for a man either... I am trying to work it out at the moment, and getting more and more confused with each passing second... That's my two sense anyways...

I'm not paranoid... I'm just observant.
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(01-Jan-2003 at 00:11)


Quote:
(Originally posted by Dilbert)

the same goes for most other governments. the police say we take orders from government. we r the word (law) of the government. if u dont listen to us, u will get the wrath of the government. is it just me or do u have something against organized heirarchy...

also, i was not aware any scientist or theologian proved who and how they built the pyramids, henceforth, one of the greatest mysteries. as the bible was written (old testiment) when the egytian were around, it would be the credible source.

and, if some one has never heard of God, or never had the spirit knocking on their door, they would be judged by God for what each has done. (i believe)
Actually, there are already several working models on how the pyramids were built.
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