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(Posted as Mr Krinkle)
Posts: 3/33
(23-Apr-2004 at 20:40)


Let's Ban Atheism!

Hello. I can't help but notice that some persons around here who are adamantly opposed to religion (most noticibly christians) are just as hypocritical as the people they attack. The problem, I feel, stems from the fact that these persons like to label themselves as a part of an in-group, Atheists. Not believing in God is fine, but these people have taken not believing and have started worshipping the idea. It comes time that we ban the term Atheist to be used in application of a person in a religious context (considering the definition of the word, this would ban the usage entirely), due to the fact that the very concept of a Atheist commune poisons the minds and souls of those who adopt the title.

These people should, from this point, be referred to only as "People without religion". They do not need a further label. Labels destroy individuality, and Atheism should be about hte individual, not some mythic community of people who do not believe in God.

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#1  
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(Posted as xens)
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Posts: 318/473
(23-Apr-2004 at 21:02)
sunglasses I had to do it!

re·li·gion ( P )

Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.


What about people who believe but not revere or worship, they also have no religion.

a·the·ist ( P ) n.
One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.


Quote:
the very concept of a Atheist commune poisons the minds and souls of those who adopt the title.
If I believed in souls I would actually be offended!


...besides, everyone knows it is the other way around. You are just trying to corrupt people souls! <-just making a silly remark like yours!

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#2  
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(Posted as Mr Krinkle)
Posts: 6/33
(23-Apr-2004 at 21:06)


Oh thank you, captain obvious. I'm curious, what was the point of you posting those definitions? As near as I can tell, they contribute nothing, mean nothing, and are completely irrelevant. I'm guessing you didn't read my post, or, if you did, your mind is so full of tripwire that the message got completely destroyed on it's path from eye to brain. My post was about how Atheists defining themselves as a entity, even if they just imply it (and they do), degrades the spirit of what they believe in, or, rather, don't believe in.

He had a lot to say
He had a lot of nothing to say
We'll miss him

#3  
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(23-Apr-2004 at 21:16)


I don't really see your point. Do you have a problem with it? Why shoulnd't Atheists be a 'group' itself. I don't like to call it a religion myself, but I aknowledge that I am a part of the Atheistic community. Maybe we should label "Theists" as "People who believe in God" instead, even though that is just about what it means?

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#4  
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(23-Apr-2004 at 23:04)


I can wait for RaveMaster to get a hold of this thread...

Anyways,

Quote:
due to the fact that the very concept of a Atheist commune poisons the minds and souls of those who adopt the title.
Could you please explain how by calling myself an Atheist because i don't believe in an all powerful god, poisons my mind and soul? Does Budist commune also poison the minds and souls of those who practice it?

Quote:
I can't help but notice that some persons around here who are adamantly opposed to religion (most noticibly christians) are just as hypocritical as the people they attack.
So wouldn't that also make you a hypocrite because you are adamantly opposed to those without religion (most noticibly atheists)

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#5  
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(23-Apr-2004 at 23:39)


Yes, Ravemaster will have fun with this thread.

Quote:
due to the fact that the very concept of a Atheist commune poisons the minds and souls of those who adopt the title.
Does it poison the minds and souls? Or does it open thier eyes a little bit more? Your choice, but most christians will see that as a lesser of two evils.

There isn't a world where "equal" exists. What we have is killing and being killed, that's it.
#6  
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(24-Apr-2004 at 02:59)


The guy has a point and that is there are many parallels between modern athiesm and theism. Hell atheism and humanism have all most become a religion with in themselfs.

so as Atheist cry out for the fall of modern religion, just remember you call for your own heads

militant Liberal Christian..funny string of words I got there
"when life gives you Lemons eat them whole..Peal and all"
-the great Ipoc
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#7  
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(24-Apr-2004 at 03:31)


Quote:
Hello. I can't help but notice that some persons around here who are adamantly opposed to religion (most noticibly christians) are just as hypocritical as the people they attack.
Am not! (Are too?)

Quote:
The problem, I feel, stems from the fact that these persons like to label themselves as a part of an in-group, Atheists.
Atheism has been an in-group since before theism. Then it became "out" with the coming Romans and Christians (and the Roman Empire and the Dark Ages, respectively). Gladiators composed of Jewish, black people, atheists, slaves (which were usually the first three), and prisoners of war were forced to fight to the death unless they were allowed to do slave labor. During the dark ages, an atheist would be burned at the stake for being a "heretic". We all know how the feudal days went, though.

Anyway, my point. Atheism isn't "in"--It's so old, it's Retro.

Quote:
Not believing in God is fine, but these people have taken not believing and have started worshipping the idea.
Technically, they can't worship the idea, because they'd be agnostics. Or if they believed in a God of Anti-Gods, a theist in itself.

Quote:
It comes time that we ban the term Atheist to be used in application of a person in a religious context (considering the definition of the word, this would ban the usage entirely)
Then I say we just skip the middle man and jump back a thousand years. Every Christian can be called "Christian" and everyone else can be called a "heretic", "jew", or "witch". Not only will it get rid of the term Atheist, but it'll get rid of the people who fit in that term. The theist groups that aren't torched to death will LOVE it!

Quote:
due to the fact that the very concept of a Atheist commune poisons the minds and souls of those who adopt the title.
That's what they all said about alcohol to push the Prohibition Era. Turns out that without alcohol being allowed, the Mafia came to be. Crime tripled, then tripled again, then tripled again. There was so much corruption within the Prohibition Act that even two of the three Presidents whose terms were under the dry era had alcohol (Harding and Coolidge), and the third President made out a report that stated Prohibition was a miserable failure! Thank goodness FDR put an end to that disaster.

What about Hitler's reign? Hitler said that Jews and other such minority groups were poisoning the moral fiber of the very world with their money-making ways and what-not. And I think everyone here knows what happened then, eh?

Quote:
These people should, from this point, be referred to only as "People without religion". They do not need a further label. Labels destroy individuality, and Atheism should be about hte individual, not some mythic community of people who do not believe in God.
Uhh, "Atheism" isn't a myth. And if the term "Atheism" should be replaced with "people without religion", then what should we do with "Theist" and "Agnostic"? Make them both "people with religion"? How will we determine which ones are religions with Gods?

Okay, now that I get that this isn't a "kill the godless monsters, they're evil" thread and about the term itself, I'll continue on a lighter note.... Heheh...

Quote:
Oh thank you, captain obvious. I'm curious, what was the point of you posting those definitions? As near as I can tell, they contribute nothing, mean nothing, and are completely irrelevant.
Someone needs a lesson in the teachings of the all-encompassing Dictionary! (My bible! )

Quote:
pron.
No thing; not anything: The box contained nothing. I've heard nothing about it.
No part; no portion: Nothing remains of the old house but the cellar hole.
One of no consequence, significance, or interest: The new nonsmoking policy is nothing to me.

n.
Something that has no existence.
Something that has no quantitative value; zero: a score of two to nothing.
One that has no substance or importance; a nonentity: “A nothing is a dreadful thing to hold onto” (Edna O'Brien).

adj.
Insignificant or worthless: “the utterly nothing role of a wealthy suitor” (Bosley Crowther).

adv.
In no way or degree; not at all: She looks nothing like her sister.
Thus, I can conclude that "theist" and "atheist" do not mean "nothing"!

Quote:
I'm guessing you didn't read my post, or, if you did, your mind is so full of tripwire that the message got completely destroyed on it's path from eye to brain.
Sounds like me.

Quote:
My post was about how Atheists defining themselves as a entity, even if they just imply it (and they do), degrades the spirit of what they believe in, or, rather, don't believe in.
Uhh.... Several points.

1. The term "theist" was coined first, and it meant the belief in a Supreme Being. Any religion with a Supreme Being was considered a theist religion, and its people theists. "Atheist" was later coined to mean people who did NOT believe in a Supreme Being. Thus, the root of the definition is theist, NOT atheist.
2. I don't believe in spirits. There is no spirit of skepticism either... So, well, yeah. Unless it's one of those ones Scrooge saw. But anyone on a 'shroom ride can see THOSE ghosts, if they try. I can assume things too, right?

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(24-Apr-2004 at 06:30)


question

Quote:
so as Atheist cry out for the fall of modern religion, just remember you call for your own heads
Question: How does that work? Last time I checked Atheism was NOT a religion and was not to even be considered one. (I know I'm not an Atheist but I'm going to pretend to be one for a second.) The only reason I could 'cry of modern religion' would be because they don't teach it correctly. I'm going to use Christianity for this one. My mom ( a devote Christian) even says that they need to have a Bible Study class that starts from the very beginning of the Bible and explains every verse all the way through, instead of skipping around to different sections of it.

Just to clarify, I do not call for the fall of modern religion, I call for an explanation of those which people do not understand unless they follow blindly, which is why I am no longer a Christian. *stops pretending to be an Atheist* well, that was interesting. I was half and half... can that work? Didn't think so....

There isn't a world where "equal" exists. What we have is killing and being killed, that's it.
#9  
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(24-Apr-2004 at 10:56)
Yet another example of some one try to use religon in order to subigate another person, has been happening for thousands of years and is nothing new. Remind me to tell you where to find the article in the constitution and in the agrements you click on when you join a chat room that protect freedom of speech.

Just cause you don't like it wont make it go away and if your attitude is as narrow your post i hope you go away.
#10  
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(Posted as RavEMasteR)
(User is Banned)
Posts: 1544/2492
(24-Apr-2004 at 17:47)


Oh yes, I'm going to have alot of fun with this thread.

Mr Krinkle, do you wish to delete the word atheism because we are atheists?

Or is it, because it really has no meaning at all?

You should know, by your standards, Christians should be labelled "people who believe in an imaginary friend". Heck, some "Christians" are so obsessed with the title that they begin to go around FORCING people to convert(Spanish Inquisition, Salem Witch Trials, etc. They claimed they are Christians and God is behind them).

Or, in another way, you're only wasting saliva. To say four words instead of one, I don't see a point.

Just a reminder, by your standards, "humans" should be labelled "apes without fur".

How absurd...

(I'm getting cranky in flaming for some reason. Gotta polish the rust off...)

Religion is the mental disease of the masses.
"Once again, religion is like sniffing gasoline. Both cause permanant brain damage." -- Obsidian
#11  
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(Posted as Mr Krinkle)
Posts: 7/33
(25-Apr-2004 at 05:04)


Atheism has taken a life of it's own, it is no longer merely a definition of one's beliefs, many Atheists think of Atheism as a religion in and of it's own. This defeats the point, this makes them hypocrites.

He had a lot to say
He had a lot of nothing to say
We'll miss him

#12  
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(25-Apr-2004 at 06:38)


Quote:
(Originally posted by Mr Krinkle)

Atheism has taken a life of it's own, it is no longer merely a definition of one's beliefs, many Atheists think of Atheism as a religion in and of it's own. This defeats the point, this makes them hypocrites.
Who says atheists must necessarily oppose organized religion? Strictly speaking, atheism means the belief that there is no God or supreme being. This definition does not imply that atheists oppose organized religion. However, in our society, in which monotheistic religions are the dominant organized religions, atheists are commonly associated with those who dislike organized religion.

And, many atheists do dislike organized religion. However, some atheists are part of organized religion. For example, Buddhism does assert the existence of a supreme being, so it can be considered an atheist (or at least agnostic) religion. Therefore, atheism does not imply a dislike of organized religion. Similarly, a dislike of organized religion does not imply atheism. For example, Voltaire made some very strong criticisms of the clergy and organized religion in general, yet he believed in God.

Therefore, atheism should not be a term to describe "people without religion."

Sapere Aude!
#13  
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(25-Apr-2004 at 07:48)


Quote:
Atheism has taken a life of it's own, it is no longer merely a definition of one's beliefs, many Atheists think of Atheism as a religion in and of it's own. This defeats the point, this makes them hypocrites.
A wise man once said "Know what you're talking about before you talk about it otherwise you'll look like a fool."

Atheism is the belief, or having faith that there is no God.

You seem to think that Atheism is about not being religious and not following a doctrine. It's not. It's simply having faith and believing there is no God. It's no different to any other religion. It still comes down to having faith.

When you say what you're saying about a belief that doesn't use faith then I'll agree with you.
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(25-Apr-2004 at 08:33)
guys, fellow atheists, you're not going to change the minds of those who are heavily indoctrinated since birth, do not listen to fact, who disregard definitions, calling them inpertinent when they are in fact the opposite.

You wont change things on a forum. Instead, grab a gun, and plant a silver bullet in the nearest christian's brain

thank you
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(25-Apr-2004 at 10:15)


I find it very disturbing that there exist groups that do not themselves perpetuate any ideas, but rather deny that others' ideas are worthwhile.

If you see the light at the end of the tunnel, then you passed the test.

Last edited by Cloud Strife, 25-Apr-2004 at 10:16.
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(25-Apr-2004 at 12:50)


In regards to Pestilenz I agree with you but that attitude is as old as humanity as is the reason Terrorism is a major problem at the moment.

On the other hand all of my life I've had people telling me that I should be a christian and goto church, denying me my beliefs and saying that my beliefs of atheism are not worthwhile. JW and LDS knocking on my door trying to convert me. They're not going to convert me and I'm not going to convert them. I do enjoy discussing it at times, especially on forums like this as you can walk away from it all so easily.
#17  
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(Posted as RavEMasteR)
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Posts: 1546/2492
(25-Apr-2004 at 14:56)


Quote:
(Originally posted by Mr Krinkle)

Atheism has taken a life of it's own, it is no longer merely a definition of one's beliefs, many Atheists think of Atheism as a religion in and of it's own. This defeats the point, this makes them hypocrites.
Why would that be?

Atheists are people who do not believe in God. In some cases, they are anti-religion.

A religion involves doctrines, and worshipping. Atheists don't have a doctrine, and they do not worship a divine being.

I don't see how that makes ALL atheists hypocrites.

Religion is the mental disease of the masses.
"Once again, religion is like sniffing gasoline. Both cause permanant brain damage." -- Obsidian
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(25-Apr-2004 at 19:15)


Quote:
(Originally posted by Cloud Strife)

I find it very disturbing that there exist groups that do not themselves perpetuate any ideas, but rather deny that others' ideas are worthwhile.
ohh dear thats quite a good point..

militant Liberal Christian..funny string of words I got there
"when life gives you Lemons eat them whole..Peal and all"
-the great Ipoc
UNITE! SPARK THE FIRE!
#19  
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(25-Apr-2004 at 21:01)


Quote:
(Originally posted by Cloud Strife)

I find it very disturbing that there exist groups that do not themselves perpetuate any ideas, but rather deny that others' ideas are worthwhile.
Most atheists are not atheist just to spite theists. By the same token, one could say theists exist merely to deny atheists' ideas. In both cases, these statements are incorrect. We merely have different beliefs. It is this confrontational attitude toward other religions that causes many of the religious tensions in the world. Just because other with differing beliefs exist, does not mean that their purpose is to deny your beliefs.

Also, atheists do have beliefs. However, because there are no large atheists organizations, our beliefs are not so uniformly perpetuated as other groups'.

Sapere Aude!
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