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View Poll Results: Which villain would come out on top?
Darth Sidious 97 65.54%
Voldemort 51 34.46%
Who voted? Voters: 148
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(Posted as Jarlaxle Baenre)
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(08-Dec-2005 at 03:29)


cleaned up some quote box blah

Originally Posted by emo kat:
Hmm...if you kill Sidious and he has a clone, you'd still be killing Sidious in the end. Killing Voldemort, and it's the same Voldemort who comes back from his Horcruxes. I don't think they should be left out of the argument, because they're a valid part of deciding who wins.
To clarify this: The clone only provides a physical vessel. The conciousness and abilities of Sidious inhabit the clone, and he comes back fully regenerated. The clone is himself at approximately 20 years of age, with flash-cloning making clones come out fully mature in a matter of months.

Quote:
Sidious can't use his lightsaber skills unless he has a lightsaber in hand.
As Voldemort has Accio, Sidious has telekinesis. The loss of the wand would be more crippling to Voldemort than the lightsabre to Sidious, I would think. If it serves as an amplifying device, the wand would be required to cast AK, and Crustacius as well (The Crucio incantation requires touch, mind you). Sidious could toss up some debris to block attacks and seize hold of Voldemort's throat, and begin choking him. Would he be able to maintain focus when being axphyxiated?

All in all, because of the similarity of their abilities and power, it comes down to focus and strategy. Who could maintain their focus through the largest distraction, and who can utilize their powers to their full extent?

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Last edited by djot76, 08-Dec-2005 at 10:20.
#21  
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(08-Dec-2005 at 04:04)


Originally Posted by emo kat:
As an added note, we both agree that Darth Vader would completely pwn Voldemort.
What version of Darth Vader? Sidious is more powerful than Vader in Return of the Jedi and in Revenge of the Sith, so I don't get it.

Vader had potential, but he never was more powerful than Sidious.

Unless Voldemort just has a weakness against pretty boys...

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Last edited by MAPS, 08-Dec-2005 at 04:06.
#22  
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(Posted as Lodewijk)
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(08-Dec-2005 at 08:54)


I'd go Voldemort for versatility. I mean he's got Protego, Expelliarmus, AK...not to mention he could just Imperius Sidious. Even if Sidious tried to force grab his wand he could just Protego to deflect it. And he's got like a million other spells...

...all here.

http://www.hp-lexicon.org/magic/spells/spells.html

With that kind of arsenal, I'd back Voldemort

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#23  
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(08-Dec-2005 at 09:06)


when people say, oh the Siths can use their force against LV,
in order to use their force, they must target something that they can see right?

In wat way does it restrict LV from casting invisibility on himself?
Okay, there's Force Seeing, but that's a Light Power, how about LV apprating around Sidius?

There are limited things that the Force can do, but magic is almost unbound.
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(08-Dec-2005 at 10:01)


really what i still think it coems down to is this voldy NEEDS his wand in order to do ANYTHING at all, when he has it, ill give u the fact they are equalish

but as i said numerous times if thatw as taken away its sidious fight, period

so maybe they go toe to toe for a bit, both acting as if they are the top dog for awhile, but eventually sidious would get that wand anway from voldy, and thats it

as for the vader thingy, i read somewhere that vader would have been TREMENDOUSLY more powerful than sidious before the little incident on mustifar (in episode 3), because of that lil problem he was tremendously weakened, considering he is like have cyberenitics...ever realize that vader nver used force lightning, its cuz he COULDNT, he dosent even have a real hand, which you need to use force lightning....anyways the only POSSIBLE time that Vader could have been stronger than sidious is in episode 3, BEFORE his fight with obi-won....basically MAPS is right on that fact that emo kat saying vader would win and sidious wouldnt is kinda crazy

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(Posted as Electric Prince)
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(08-Dec-2005 at 10:36)


I see many people coming here saying to distract LV, before running behind him and hacking him down or whatever. Don't you guys think at all? LV is the most powerful wizard in the wizarding world. Would someone be distracted by a piece of debris that easily? Furthermore, I'm sure he can blast anything away with Reducto. Besides, when it comes down to a disarming contest, LV sure has the upperhand.

For that I'm backing LV to win.


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#26  
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(08-Dec-2005 at 10:45)


ah geesh...what the hell are arguing about...lol

i dunno...voldemort cant kill a lil kid, so how could how could he own daft sidioius or whoever?

ps. Maxkool sucks
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(08-Dec-2005 at 10:47)


as far as a disarming contest goes, it dosent even matter if sidious is beat 10 fold, what does he have to disarm? his lightsaber? so? thats not even his true stregth....tell you what voldy can take sidious's saber, and sidous takes voldy's wand....

i doubt seriously that voldy can hold on to that wand when sidious is pulling at it with the fulls trength of the force

and as for voldy being the powerful wizard there is, sidious has the highest mitichlorian count (with his kaber krystal) so thats a moot point as well

basically it comes down to this

-voldys magic vs sidious force use = a tie
-voldies focus for magic (his wand) vs sidious focus for the force (basically nothing) = sidious advantage
-voldys virtual complete ineptatude in hand to hand combat vs sidious being completely badass with a lightsaber = HUGE sidious advantage

according to thoose 3 points (which are the most important 3 id think) voldy's best comparison is a TIE, whereas sidious easily wins the other two

i really dont see how sidious could lose this one

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#28  
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(08-Dec-2005 at 11:20)


Darth Sidious, why? Because Light Saber and knowing force ( telekinesis in all forms ) will be bit more powerful than a piece of stick and long long enchants :P

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#29  
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(08-Dec-2005 at 12:51)


Well.. it would really depend on who acts first. A wizard needs a wand to focus spells so I doubt Voldy would be able to cast Avada Kedavra without one but if he does cast Avada Kedavra before Sidious can take his wand then there's nothing Sidious can do to stop him. Also if Sidious takes his wand before he can cast his spell then Voldemort can always apparate away, preferably someplace from which he can get another wand.

Assuming at the start of the duel, both of them are facing each other around 10 metres apart.. what I would do if I were Voldemort is to apparate (this doesn't require a wand or any verbal statement, just a thought so it should be instantaneous) to somewhere behind Sidious and quickly cast Avada Kedavra before Sidious can react.

Assuming Voldemort does this I don't think Sidious can win.
#30  
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(08-Dec-2005 at 13:15)


Re: Darth Sidious vs Voldemort: Which villain would come out on top?

Originally Posted by Chillin:
really what i still think it coems down to is this voldy NEEDS his wand in order to do ANYTHING at all, when he has it, ill give u the fact they are equalish

sorry to spoil your fun Chillin, LV doesn't need a wand to cast medium to some difficult spells. Can't blame you if you havn't read the books etc.

Originally Posted by homppa:
ah geesh...what the hell are arguing about...lol

i dunno...voldemort cant kill a lil kid, so how could how could he own daft sidioius or whoever?
well, kinda hard to explain the plot of the book in one reply, but i'll try my best to explain how he can't kill a kid and managed to massacre the rest.

mods sorry to go abit on the sidenote, but its needed to answer the question.

ITS A SPOILER so your warned.

Harry Potter's mother casted an ancient defending spell for Harry the moment she died. (the very spell that caused LV's downfall.) This spell is bound by blood, thus he needs to go back to his Blood Aunty's place every year for the spell to work.
In the latest movie, LV has managed to get some of Harry's blood, and his re-carnation spell enabled him to share Harry's blood, thus, he can touch Harry without getting himself "killed" like in the previoius movies.
In the process of trying to kill harry the first time, his killing spell got deflected by Harry's shield spell, so LV actually is the first person to survive the killing curse, rather than Harry.

So basically, if Harry didn't have that spell in the begining, he's already dead. And well now, in the 4th movie, the only reason Harry surivied his Deul with LV is because his wand and LV's want are "brother wands" made with the Core of the Phoneix in Prof. D's room. They share a magical bond, and if forced to duel against each other they will have weird effects, Reverse something or rather, slipped my mind atm.

So yeh anyway, LV can easily kill Harry Potter by his own. Oh yeh, the spell Harry's mother cast can't be cast on self.

Originally Posted by Chillin:
as far as a disarming contest goes, it dosent even matter if sidious is beat 10 fold, what does he have to disarm? his lightsaber? so? thats not even his true stregth....tell you what voldy can take sidious's saber, and sidous takes voldy's wand....

i doubt seriously that voldy can hold on to that wand when sidious is pulling at it with the fulls trength of the force

and as for voldy being the powerful wizard there is, sidious has the highest mitichlorian count (with his kaber krystal) so thats a moot point as well

basically it comes down to this

-voldys magic vs sidious force use = a tie
-voldies focus for magic (his wand) vs sidious focus for the force (basically nothing) = sidious advantage
-voldys virtual complete ineptatude in hand to hand combat vs sidious being completely badass with a lightsaber = HUGE sidious advantage

according to thoose 3 points (which are the most important 3 id think) voldy's best comparison is a TIE, whereas sidious easily wins the other two

i really dont see how sidious could lose this one
again chilling, you forgot, disarming spells dont just include getting rid of the weapon, it also includes curses, such as Stun, Paralize, or Transfiguration. If LV transfigures Sidious into a cockaroach, i'd love to see the Chain Lighting from that

Magic is not also about offence, it also have alot of defence, and remember, the only person LV ever feared is Proff D. So he is god-like.
Also, just because a wizard can't fight hand to hand, reminds me of the ninja vs samurai etc threads.

This time, the wizard can actually use his stealth, or tatics against Sidioius. Once LV is out of Sidious' range, and sight, he is open to anything.
What can stop LV from apprating somewhere at the instant the duel is started. The force will have an idea where he is goign to teleport to, but it will be still out of his range. From that range, LV can do what ever he likes, including summoning creatures, casing illusions, or just spells to disable, injure or kill.
#31  
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(Posted as Jarlaxle Baenre)
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(08-Dec-2005 at 15:38)


Ok, let's get something cleared up;

Sidious would not have to see Voldemort.

Even if LV can cast difficult spells without a wand, what about AK? That is, presumably, one of the most powerful spells in existance.

Quote:
it also includes curses, such as Stun, Paralize, or Transfiguration. If LV transfigures Sidious into a cockaroach, i'd love to see the Chain Lighting from that
So would I; it'd be quite amusing to see LV's ass kicked by a cockaroach. And completely possible.

Quote:
Furthermore, I'm sure he can blast anything away with Reducto. Besides, when it comes down to a disarming contest, LV sure has the upperhand.
How so? Sidious has the Force; it's pretty damn hard to get that away.

Quote:
I'd go Voldemort for versatility. I mean he's got Protego, Expelliarmus, AK...not to mention he could just Imperius Sidious. Even if Sidious tried to force grab his wand he could just Protego to deflect it. And he's got like a million other spells...
How could he use Protego to block a Force-grab? The term itself is a bit misleading; what you're doing is manipulating the wand itself. If the shield is in front, push it backwards. Hell, snap it. If a crash into a tree can snap a wand, a force-user could do it easily.

And remember, they're both strong in will. If Sidious wasn't, wouldn't the Jedi have used their mind-tricks on him?

Quote:
In wat way does it restrict LV from casting invisibility on himself?
Okay, there's Force Seeing, but that's a Light Power, how about LV apprating around Sidius?
He doesn't need to see LV to use the Force; the Force is not sight-based at all. As for apparation, that has it's disadvantages for the user as well as Sidious.

Quote:
I see many people coming here saying to distract LV, before running behind him and hacking him down or whatever. Don't you guys think at all? LV is the most powerful wizard in the wizarding world. Would someone be distracted by a piece of debris that easily?
He needs to take his eyes off Sidious just for a second or two. Throwing up a dust cloud could accomplish that without breaking his concentration. What Sidious really needs is cover.

Quote:
I see many people coming here saying to distract LV, before running behind him and hacking him down or whatever. Don't you guys think at all? LV is the most powerful wizard in the wizarding world. Would someone be distracted by a piece of debris that easily?
There's a counter for AK we've all been missing: physical objects. Logically, if it can be blocked by phyiscal objects, Sidious could block it with debris, possibly even his lightsabre.

Quote:
This time, the wizard can actually use his stealth, or tatics against Sidioius. Once LV is out of Sidious' range, and sight, he is open to anything.
Not so; Sidious doesn't need sight, and range for Force-manipulation is long enough that it can be used during space combat; Kyp Durron used it when fighting the Vong to toss Torpedoes at their Coralskippers.

Rumours of my demise are greatly exaggerated
Do the impossible
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Last edited by Jarlaxle Baenre, 08-Dec-2005 at 15:38.
#32  
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(08-Dec-2005 at 16:02)


grr.. Sideous can't lose

I think everyone's missing the grander sceme of things when it comes to this contest.

First and foremost no one's touched Sideous' greatest ability. Pure, raw politics and manipulation. The fact is, Voldemort would either find himself by the emporer's side or dead of a blaster rifle bolt long before he ever made it to sideous. We're also assuming that the unforgivable death curse thing would even have an effect. The dark side is so strong in the emperor, and his will is so strong, I really doubt that such a thing as a curse would really do anything to slow him down. More likely than not, he'd absorb the green glowing curse stuff and state to Voldy, "now, you shall feel the unbridled power of my will" and he'd fire lighting, only this time it would be green. If you really want a good fight, and you want to compare certain aspects of character, you can take Voldemort 10 minutes before he met Harry Potter, and Sideous 10 minutes after he's taken over the borg As discribed here! Basically, Voldy would try a spell, Palpatine would deflect it with an energy shield and turn Voldy into a borg, thus giving the borg jedi and magic powers further adding to thier unstopableness.

All in all if you want to go real movie vs real movie, Voldemort is a bumbling fool with 13 lackeys who happens to know a few good spells. Sideous has an entire galaxy behind him, space aged technology and millions of underlings to do his bidding. And as stated above, Voldy would be his servant, or would be left in 5 rather large disembodied hunks on the ground. You'd never see Sideous lose a fight to a 1 year old baby. The end.

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#33  
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(Posted as Electric Prince)
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(08-Dec-2005 at 16:18)


I agree with the 10 minutes before Voldy met Potter thing, but you missed something. You don't strike fear into everyone just by having 13 'lackeys' who know a 'few' spells. Voldy by himself killed more people than his lackeys added together. He's not the best, or second-best if you like, for nothing ye know

I'm not very familiar with Star Wars so I can't say for certain, but Voldy isn't one to mess around with in a duel. He has more in his arsenal than just the AK.


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#34  
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(Posted as Grand Wizard)
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(08-Dec-2005 at 17:08)


Volly would win from Darthy! His magic power is much greater than the mere force of D. Volly would turn him into a duck with ease.

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#35  
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(08-Dec-2005 at 17:30)


In Book 5, Voldemort actually Disappeared in the MoM, and disappeared for a little while, and as I remember, Dumbledore pretty much shit himself at that point. Then...BAM!!!...suddenly he's inside Harry Potter. What stops him from getting inside Sidious and killing him from there.
I just don't think the Force has a chance against Magic. Magic has literally endless combinations. You say Sidious has a whole galaxy behind him. Well what would stop Voldemort from conjuring a Boggart. I don't know what would happen, because I don't know what Sidious fears most, but he wouldn't be able to get away from it because he doesn't know magic and can't get rid of it.

End of fight. Voldemort wins with a simple Boggart-conjuring spell.

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(08-Dec-2005 at 19:10)


Hahaha I love these debates. So pointless, and fun! Anyways, I side with Sidious. The force is instantaneous, whereas even non-verbal spells take some time to complete. All Sidious needs to do is force-push voldemort (to get him off guard and not give him time to start a spell) and then disarm his wand, then force lightning/choke him to pieces. The only way voldy could win is if he somehow got the first move.

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#37  
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(08-Dec-2005 at 19:41)


well you cant actually kill VM so itll be a draw
#38  
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(Posted as Jarlaxle Baenre)
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(08-Dec-2005 at 22:45)


Re: Darth Sidious vs Voldemort: Which villain would come out on top?

Originally Posted by O s i r i s:
well you cant actually kill VM so itll be a draw
Yes you can; you just have to kill him 7 times. Sidious has at least that many clones. Probably more.

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#39  
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(08-Dec-2005 at 23:05)


Well.. Sidious would win, no doubt. Voldemort is a wuzz.

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Avada Kedavra
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