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Posts: 1899/2247
Donated $4.24
(10-Dec-2008 at 20:09)


Re: Saint Sinner is going to JAIL

Originally Posted by godiva: View Post
Alimony is one thing, but as i said this is about supporting children that he chose to make... why should they suffer for his selfishness?
Well, what exactly do they get by him going to jail?

Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege!
Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia - The Fear of Long Words
#21  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Alexstrasza Add Alexstrasza to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 1/5
(10-Dec-2008 at 20:10)
As a parent my concern would have been placed in my children. Not my friends truck or her ass. I probably would have considered helping you until that. No courts dont go easy on dads who would rather do other things then take care of their kids. My question is this. How often do you spend with your kids now? Do you even see them? Stuff like that makes a difference. If you spent a good amount of time with kids would probably make a more positive impact and most likely would make us want to help you even more.
#22  
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Posts: 52/95
(10-Dec-2008 at 20:20)
and btw, i would feel exactly the same if the situation were reversed, and it was the mom ordered to pay support.
#23  
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Posts: 1652/1693
(10-Dec-2008 at 20:22)


Re: Saint Sinner is going to JAIL

Originally Posted by godiva: View Post
well, it's your money. if you choose to donate fine, but i don't want to see y'all crying when you don't see a dime of it back. and maybe he is good for it, but he's actually admitted to putting his own personal agenda over and above his very own children.

Alimony is one thing, but as i said this is about supporting children that he chose to make... why should they suffer for his selfishness?
Woah woah woah woah woah. Hold the fuck on.

You know absolutely nothing about the situation. You know nothing of the mother's financial status. You know nothing about the number, age, or situation of the children. For all we know their mother is in a perfectly suitable financial situation, but is trying to make a cash grab. If she did make an oral agreement (Which seems likely, otherwise why would she make this argument three years after the fact), she most likely felt that she would be capable of dealing with the child(ren?) on her own.

He did not place his own agenda over that of his children. He took a trip with money saved specifically for that purpose. Money that was his by rights due to the oral contract with the mother.

I mean, seriously, where the fuck do you get off? If you're trying to make sure that the children recieve some support, suggesting that we don't donate only ensures that he goes to jail. By donating, we support his ability to regain the means to make the payments!

Besides, your knowledge of the law is shaky. If the party with custody (Presumably the mother) waives her right to child-support payments, he has no obligation to make them! Zero!

To Alex: The forced payments is in regards to the court and the mother; showing that people whom SaSi has never met donated a sum of $1 500 would be a good reflection on his character, and will hopefully show good faith and get some leniency from the judge.

SaSi: we've had our disputes over the years, but they've always been differences of opinion; I have never doubted your character. It's unfortunate you've been locked into a he-said/she-said argument, and I recommend getting it in writing next time. Won't make it that much easier, but it will make your case that much stronger. I'm afraid my circumstances can't warrant a big donation, but I'll chip in what I can when I get to my home computer. I wish you luck.

Rumours of my demise are greatly exaggerated
Do the impossible
See the invisible
ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWER
#24  
View Public Profile Visit Eltargrim's homepage Find more posts by Eltargrim Add Eltargrim to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 4/4
(10-Dec-2008 at 20:33)
Oral agreements are for suckers. Never trust anyone, let alone a woman. If you want to trust a woman, you better do whatever it is that she wants you to do, because as soon as you go to Hawaii to get your Johnson serviced, you're going to go to court and pay her a lot of money.
#25  
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Posts: 952/1022
Donated $1.20
(10-Dec-2008 at 20:52)


Donated/loaned $30 dollars. Of course, the real sacrifice made is that I'm supposed to be down in the pub right now, and I'll get in trouble for being late.

SaSi, i don't actually know you that well, and not having a job myself means an expensive few weeks ahead for my poor bank account. Still, if there's any time for random acts of kindness to "strangers", it's Christmas.

Crap, now I'm dead late. Totally not gonna be worth it

Good luck SaSi. Have a good Christmas.

Noble Lady Sarak ~~ King Was Throne Away
The most extragant idea that a politican can have is to believe that it is enough for a people to march into a foreign country, for that country to adopt its laws and constitution. No-one likes armed missionaries; and nature and prudence both teach us to repel armed missionaries as enemies.
~ Maximilien Robespierre; January 1792
#26  
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Posts: 53/95
(10-Dec-2008 at 20:54)
verbal agreements aren't worth the paper they're written on, to quote an old cliche'

and it doesn't matter if that $1k was specifically saved for a trip. the fact of the matter is, it was a conscious choice on his part to use that money to get his you-know-whats off instead of being a responsible "adult" (and i use that term loosely).

it's all about priorities and choices. his priority was himself, when it should have been the children.

i have a very good RL friend who lived in poverty with her 3 children for many years because her jerk of an ex-husband wouldn't pay his support. So dead beat dads (or moms) make me angry.

You choose to make a baby, and your life is no longer your own. You KNOW what the consequences can be once you put your **** into that nice warm spot. You don't want the responsibility of children, then do what it takes to not cause it. be it abstention, or protection. I know protection isn't 100% guaranteed, but you still have made the conscious choice to put it where it's warm and it could happen despite all protection. you're still responsible for it.

you now have a new responsibility, over and above your own wants... and trust me going to hawaii is not a "need" it's a "want".
#27  
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Posts: 1693
(Post has been warned)
(10-Dec-2008 at 21:50)


Re: Saint Sinner is going to JAIL

Originally Posted by godiva: View Post
verbal agreements aren't worth the paper they're written on, to quote an old cliche'
That old clich is crap. Oral contracts are binding. The trick is in proving them. If you act on an oral contract, you may not be wise, but you are in no way in the wrong.

Originally Posted by godiva:
and it doesn't matter if that $1k was specifically saved for a trip. the fact of the matter is, it was a conscious choice on his part to use that money to get his you-know-whats off instead of being a responsible "adult" (and i use that term loosely).
Oh fuck off. He made an agreement with his ex-wife that he would not have to pay child support. That means that money is his. You still don't know what agreements they made beyond money, or the custodial status, or how much participation he has in his child's life.

Besides, this came up after the Hawaii trip. Somehow I don't think the trip would have happened if his ex slammed him with this beforehand

Originally Posted by godiva:
it's all about priorities and choices. his priority was himself, when it should have been the children.
Again, you have zero idea of what is going on. For all we know he has a huge role in their lives, without having to make child support payments. Parenting isn't just about money.

Originally Posted by godiva:
i have a very good RL friend who lived in poverty with her 3 children for many years because her jerk of an ex-husband wouldn't pay his support. So dead beat dads (or moms) make me angry.
Stop projecting. That's her (unfortunate) circumstance. This is a different one. This is not a dad trying to avoid making child support. This is a dad who did not have to make child support trying to get the means to retroactively pay child support. He is trying to pay! The court took away his means of making money to make the payments! SaSi is not trying to avoid payments, he is doing his damnest to make them!

Originally Posted by godiva:
You choose to make a baby, and your life is no longer your own. You KNOW what the consequences can be once you put your **** into that nice warm spot. You don't want the responsibility of children, then do what it takes to not cause it. be it abstention, or protection. I know protection isn't 100% guaranteed, but you still have made the conscious choice to put it where it's warm and it could happen despite all protection. you're still responsible for it.

you now have a new responsibility, over and above your own wants... and trust me going to hawaii is not a "need" it's a "want".
Responsibility doesn't need to involve money. Again, for all we know, he's as responsible as he can be (It seems like he doesn't have primary custody) in providing a good role model, providing a safe environment, and providing a father figure for his kid(s?). The ex agreed to waive child support. There is no inclination that his ex needed or wanted the support. This request only came after the Hawaii trip. Hmm. I wonder why that is?

In short:

There is a huge perception in the States of the "deadbeat dad". There is some grounding in reality (Godiva's unfortunate friend). However, if we go in assuming that every father without custody is a deadbeat dad, we ignore all of the circumstances surrounding the situation, and we ignore the possibility that maybe, just maybe, the dad was in the right. We do not know enough about the situation to decide if SaSi warrants imprisonment. We do know that he is trying to make the payment. From what I know about SaSi, that's good enough for me.

Godiva: stop projecting your friend's ex onto SaSi. And try and find her a pro-bono lawyer. That's a case that actually needs prosecuting. Unless there's something you're not telling us...

Rumours of my demise are greatly exaggerated
Do the impossible
See the invisible
ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWER
#28  
View Public Profile Visit Eltargrim's homepage Find more posts by Eltargrim Add Eltargrim to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 676/680
(10-Dec-2008 at 21:57)


So essentially, we've got people who know and like SaSi helping him out, and people who've just created an account for this very purpose as well as some lurker come out of their cave to get on a soapbox. Godiva, Milenkalot, shut the fuck up if you don't know what the hell is going on, and go back to your holes so the adults can talk in peace.

GNAR!!!!
#29  
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Posts: 3725/3863
(10-Dec-2008 at 22:04)


Re: Saint Sinner is going to JAIL

Originally Posted by godiva: View Post
verbal agreements aren't worth the paper they're written on, to quote an old cliche'
Unless it's a verified recording, or you have a reliable witness.

Quote:
and it doesn't matter if that $1k was specifically saved for a trip. the fact of the matter is, it was a conscious choice on his part to use that money to get his you-know-whats off instead of being a responsible "adult" (and i use that term loosely).
Yes it does matter. If he had been sensible and come to an written agreement prior, he could have budgeted accordingly to take into account any payments.

Quote:
it's all about priorities and choices. his priority was himself, when it should have been the children.
Maybe, but that's a rather uninformed judgement to make.

Quote:
i have a very good RL friend who lived in poverty with her 3 children for many years because her jerk of an ex-husband wouldn't pay his support. So dead beat dads (or moms) make me angry.
cos they're all the same right?


Quote:
You choose to make a baby, and your life is no longer your own. You KNOW what the consequences can be once you put your **** into that nice warm spot. You don't want the responsibility of children, then do what it takes to not cause it. be it abstention, or protection. I know protection isn't 100% guaranteed, but you still have made the conscious choice to put it where it's warm and it could happen despite all protection. you're still responsible for it.

you now have a new responsibility, over and above your own wants... and trust me going to hawaii is not a "need" it's a "want".
The only thing new about this situation is the demand for 3 years worth of child support. 3 years is a long time. Why hasn't his ex-wife asked him for child support before now?
I'm sure SaSi is quite aware of his responsibilities, and had he not reached a verbal agreement, which I'm sure he's now aware was totally stupid, he would have budgeted his finances accordingly.

It's very harsh to rush in and start shouting guilty, when you a, don't know all the facts; b, seem to have trouble understanding the information you have been given and C, are prejudging him as a "deadbeat dad" because the words "Child Support" are in the frame.

SaSi, I will make what contribution I can.

People, like snowflakes, are all slightly different, but we all follow the same patterns -Stewie
Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it.

Some people are like Slinkies- absolutely useless, but always fun to push down stairs!

Last edited by Azure Dragon, 10-Dec-2008 at 22:04.
#30  
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Posts: 54/95
(10-Dec-2008 at 22:15)
"go back into your hole"?

so what you're saying is that since i disagree with you, i don't have a right to state my opinion?

i would doubt that many of you know the complete circumstances around this, yet you are giving your opinion, and your money (stupidly imo). And all I'm doing is stating my opinion as well. And will continue to do so whether or not you like it. I'm a 50 yr old mom, and trust me, i will not shut up when it comes to the well being of kids.

IF, in fact, he is participating in the daily lives of these children (i'm sorry, i don't recall how many kids are involved here), that is a plus on his side. but i certainly don't see any evidence of it in his post. All i see is that he selfishly got his rocks off.

I don't necessarily agree that he should go to jail, or that he should lose his drivers license because of it. he should at least have the ability to make good on the court order, whether or not he agrees with it. if he doesn't like it, he should go to court to get it changed. And until it's changed in the court, he is responsible to make good on what they ordered in the first place.

but what i DO think is that if he is working, his wages should be garnished in order to pay this back child support.

personally i know what the job market is like, i'm going on 2 yrs unemployed myself, but i still make good on my commitments and financial responsibilities.

This is a "he said/she said" situation which is next to impossible to prove who is telling the truth unless there are witnesses to it. He was very foolish in doing anything verbally, especially if it contradicts court ordered child support. You can't just change a court order on a whim... verbally no less.
#31  
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Posts: 12/25
(10-Dec-2008 at 22:19)
I have a question for you godiva: how well do you know the details of Scott's exact situation?

That's right, you don't. So maybe you need to step back and disappear. Fine, you think this is a bad idea, your entitled to your opinion. We are also entitled to ours, and if you have a problem with that, then you should leave.

Scott's obviously having a hard time with this situation (yes, I made an ASSUMPTION, but its common sense), so maybe trampling all over his feelings isn't a good idea. Honestly, I would of warned you for flaming for calling him a "deadbeat dad". Now that I think about it, when someone called my own father that, do you know what I did? I left my mothers home and never lived there for more then a few months since. Its an extremely, extremely hurtful and offensive thing to say.

You have no idea what the situation is, so keep hurtful, offensive comments to yourself. For the record: Brother Green initiated all this, NOT Scott.
#32  
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Posts: 2/5
(10-Dec-2008 at 22:31)
I was just curious. The ones telling Godiva off. Do you have kids? Not every dad is a dead beat dad. And no its not all about money but you know kids are expensive and if 2 people create a child its not very fair for just one parent to provide for the child. No we dont know the story about SaSi and his relationship with his children and I am not going to pretend I do. I only can comment on what I know and what Ive been through. I do pay child support. Not because I am being made to but because I want my child to have the best. I know not everyone can do that and if you arent working it next to impossible to help take care of your children in the monetary way. I also think going to jail for not paying child support is a catch 22. Anyway SaSi I wish you luck with what you are going through.
#33  
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Posts: 1654/1693
(10-Dec-2008 at 22:38)


Re: Saint Sinner is going to JAIL

Originally Posted by godiva: View Post
i would doubt that many of you know the complete circumstances around this, yet you are giving your opinion, and your money (stupidly imo). And all I'm doing is stating my opinion as well. And will continue to do so whether or not you like it. I'm a 50 yr old mom, and trust me, i will not shut up when it comes to the well being of kids.
And I am a teacher, lifeguard, camp counsellor, older sibling, and cousin. Parenthood doesn't give you exclusive rights to decide on the well-being of children.

Originally Posted by godiva:
IF, in fact, he is participating in the daily lives of these children (i'm sorry, i don't recall how many kids are involved here), that is a plus on his side. but i certainly don't see any evidence of it in his post. All i see is that he selfishly got his rocks off.
Emphasis mine.

How was it selfish? In accordance with the oral contract, that was his money to use as he saw fit. There was zero obligation with that money; he didn't take a child support payment and splurge, he took his money and took a vacation which was within his rights to do so.

The number of kids has not been made public.

Originally Posted by godiva:
I don't necessarily agree that he should go to jail, or that he should lose his drivers license because of it. he should at least have the ability to make good on the court order, whether or not he agrees with it.
That is what this fund is for. He's trying to make good on it. He has jobs lined up, and had a job before he had his license confiscated. This loan is to allow him to get a job with which he can make the retroactive payments!

Originally Posted by godiva:
if he doesn't like it, he should go to court to get it changed. And until it's changed in the court, he is responsible to make good on what they ordered in the first place.
They didn't order anything in the first place! The courts only got involved after the trip to Hawaii.

To be clear: they made a verbal agreement to keep the courts out of it. They went along like this for three years. The courts only ordered the child support now. The issue with the back pay is that he (foolishly) relied upon a verbal agreement and trusted his ex to hold to it.

Originally Posted by godiva:
but what i DO think is that if he is working, his wages should be garnished in order to pay this back child support.
Tomato, tomahto. He's expressed his intent to pay; the only question is his ability.

Originally Posted by godiva:
personally i know what the job market is like, i'm going on 2 yrs unemployed myself, but i still make good on my commitments and financial responsibilities.
But he didn't have any! This only arose now. In addition, if the court didn't insist on immediate payment and on confiscating his drivers license, he would still have a job and would have been able to start making payments!

Originally Posted by godiva:
This is a "he said/she said" situation which is next to impossible to prove who is telling the truth unless there are witnesses to it. He was very foolish in doing anything verbally
This is true.

Originally Posted by godiva:
especially if it contradicts court ordered child support. You can't just change a court order on a whim... verbally no less.
There was no pre-existing court order.

Timeline:

T-3y; they split. Verbal agreement was made. Courts were not involved.
T-0y (aka now); his ex filed for child support. Courts were involved.

The ex just filed for child support. The courts only became involved now. Besides that, he is not trying to change the court order. He is trying to pay.

Again, stop projecting and look at this case individually. The vitriol in your original post was completely unwarranted.

Originally Posted by AlieNation:
I was just curious. The ones telling Godiva off. Do you have kids? Not every dad is a dead beat dad. And no its not all about money but you know kids are expensive and if 2 people create a child its not very fair for just one parent to provide for the child. No we dont know the story about SaSi and his relationship with his children and I am not going to pretend I do. I only can comment on what I know and what Ive been through. I do pay child support. Not because I am being made to but because I want my child to have the best. I know not everyone can do that and if you arent working it next to impossible to help take care of your children in the monetary way. I also think going to jail for not paying child support is a catch 22. Anyway SaSi I wish you luck with what you are going through.
It may not be fair for one parent to be forced to shoulder the costs by herself, but that was her choice when the contract was made. If she wanted Scott's aid, why did she not ask 3 years ago?

Rumours of my demise are greatly exaggerated
Do the impossible
See the invisible
ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWER

Last edited by Eltargrim, 10-Dec-2008 at 22:41.
#34  
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Posts: 3/5
(10-Dec-2008 at 22:51)
"It may not be fair for one parent to be forced to shoulder the costs by herself, but that was her choice when the contract was made. If she wanted Scott's aid, why did she not ask 3 years ago?"

I dont know why she didnt. She should have then if she was going to do it at all. I do know that sometimes (not saying this is the case here) that the children can get used as pawns in cases like this and its not fair to the child. Ive seen cases where women who wouldnt bother with child support go after it because the father has a new girfriend and Ive seen men hold out child support when the women get new boyfriends. I work in the legal field. This is one thing no one can really assume anything in because there are only 2 people that know every detail and that is SaSi and the mother of the children.
#35  
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Posts: 55/95
(10-Dec-2008 at 22:58)
again, "the contract" is a verbal one... and is unprovable unless both parties acknowledge it, or there are witnesses.

the fact is, whether you are the sperm or egg donor, you made a child, and you are responsible for that child's well being.

it is what it is... and he's responsible.

As far as I know the only statute of limitations regarding child support expires when the child is 18. (I'm not in the law field, so i could be wrong there, but i doubt it). So afaik, she is fully within her right to ask for child support at any time until the kid(s) 18th birthday.

Should he go to jail? probably not. Should he lose his license? probably not. Should he pay? YES... thru salary garnishment or whatever.

DON'T MAKE THE CHILDREN PAY FOR THE "selfish" MISTAKES OF THE ADULTS...

I'd like to see what the original divorce settlement says about the disposition of the children and provision for their support.

Last edited by godiva, 10-Dec-2008 at 23:01.
#36  
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Posts: 143/194
(10-Dec-2008 at 23:43)
Re: Saint Sinner is going to JAIL

"afaik, she is fully within her right to ask for child support at any time until the kid(s) 18th birthday"

True, but do not expect him to save the amount he is supposed to pay per month.
If you get extra funds returned by the goverment (tax or whatever), you do not hold on to them for 3 years either. You try to put them to good use by enjoying your life.

"DON'T MAKE THE CHILDREN PAY FOR THE "selfish" MISTAKES OF THE ADULTS..."

True, but the way I read it the goverment dug a hole --> threw him in and actually managed to make the pit bottomless.


In the end I doubt we really know what is going on, I do NOT believe this is the entire situation. This story looks way too positive for SaSi to be true, this does not mean he has been wrong. (But there is always more going on than 1 side of the story tells you, ALWAYS)

@ Godiva,
You stand in your right to voice your opinion.
You were wrong in insulting/attacking the persons that were donating by calling them "stupid". That is none of your concern and can only do wrong.

This story is written from only 1 side which is unreliable, but you godiva should shame on yourself for giving such a black/white response on it.

Sorry SaSi, I am not a rich guy and I will not give money to someone I do not know even though you do sound like you can make good use of it.

Good Luck

Pink ftw!
#37  
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Research Group
Posts: 3107/3400
Donated $25.30
(11-Dec-2008 at 01:01)


Re: Saint Sinner is going to JAIL

I wish I had time to address everything but I am rather busy at the moment but I did want to correct this

Originally Posted by Eltargrim: View Post




Timeline:

T-3y; they split. Verbal agreement was made. Courts were not involved.
T-0y (aka now); his ex filed for child support. Courts were involved.
T-5y split Verbal agreement was made. Courts were not involved.
T-2y ex filed for child support. Courts were involved.
Back support was calculated.
License was lost ect ect
T-6m last court hearing. One time payment equaling 10% of total owed was ordered
T-4m(roughly) Failing economy results in layoffs at work and scarce jobs which leads to the current situation

For a bit of clarification I have a daughter ... just the one.

When we first split I did offer her financial support, however she refused on the principle of pride, at least thats what she told me and at the time believed that
I did give her money before the court order when she asked for it. After the order I did make the payments which I had suggested, and was approved, to have taken out of my paycheck to avoid late payments or lost mail. I also discussed and requested that the maximum amount that was allowed by law be taken out of my pay in an attempt to pay back the back support that was owed. I had originally asked that at least 50% of my paycheck be deducted but it turns out they couldnt do that. This was done on MY request.
All income tax returns as well as the recent stimulus packages(thanks to GW for that) was used as payment.

As for the verbal agreement yea that doesnt mean much without a witness as it turns out
So yes I was foolish

There is a lot of speculation and assumptions flying around
I wish I could address everything now but at the moment I am busy.

Everyone is free to send me PMs if they have specific questions
I will try later to make time to post more
#38  
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Posts: 9/18
(11-Dec-2008 at 01:43)
BS. This is a scam of some sort.
NObody has their drivers license (of all things!) taken away due to child support. And NObody gets thrown in jail for debt.

What kind of fools do you take us for, Brother Green?

The Voices in my head don't like you, so be vewy careful...
#39  
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Posts: 13/25
(11-Dec-2008 at 02:01)
It is the United States of America, after all. People have gone to prison for much, much less.
#40  
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