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Posts: 11/27
(22-Jan-2008 at 02:29)


"But you obviously hate us..."

So that little bit of wording was provided to me by my rather (scary) religious sister and her husband one night. We were discussing religion, or rather my defined lack there of. And to make a long story short it came down them saying that because I am an atheist I must HATE them, and all christians for that matter.

So what is my question you ask?

Where are they getting this? Is there some nut job out there preaching that all atheist hate christians? I know I have seen some absurd stuff saying that atheists are trying to destroy religion and what not but this was rather personal and I wonder where the hell it is coming from.

"I am somewhat preoccupied telling the laws of physics to shut up and sit down" V
I dont know how I got here, or where I was going, but now that Im here I am scared...
My moodiness makes me profound. I appreciate Herman Melville and you don't.
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Posts: 292/493
(22-Jan-2008 at 04:42)


Many atheists can be fervently opposed to religion and not scared of acting on this conviction; if you combine a person like this with a very religious person, I can see the potential for much conflict. Unfortunately, she is your sister, so you have to find a way of achieving this.

Never give in, never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. - Sir Winston Churchill, Speech, 1941, Harrow School
#2  
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(22-Jan-2008 at 04:47)


There are several nutjobs preaching that atheists are trying to destroy the very fabric of society and are really nothing more than a sec of satan worshipers. Allso some have refered to atheism as a sect of muslim but that made no sense so im guessing that the person wasnt being serious.
Anyhow as i allready said there are quite a few prominent vocal christians of various denominations that demonize atheists.

Official #la drunken bum and gun-nut
Ladies, does this rag smell of chloroform to you?
To Naz "Nacho, nacho man I've got to be, a nacho man Nacho, nacho man"
I don't respect your beliefs and I don't care if you're offended. Cheers.
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(22-Jan-2008 at 07:09)


It's simply the old us vs them mentality. The more fanatical a person is no matter about what religion,nationality,football the more sharply they will react when someone might even have the possibility of being against them and their programing. Good old paranoia.

The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common; they don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit the views

Last edited by DHoffryn, 22-Jan-2008 at 07:10.
#4  
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(22-Jan-2008 at 09:31)


Anything that opposes one's established social consciousness is to be considered a threat and enemy, because it is destroying one's shared identity. Read Durkheim, Elementary Forms of Religious Life, then The Division of Labour in Society. Perfectly ellucidates the collective consciousness and the mechanics that make this important.

"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."
-Soren Kierkegaard
"Those who know don't say, and those who say don't know."
- Lao Tzu
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(22-Jan-2008 at 17:16)


Re: "But you obviously hate us..."

Originally Posted by Irimholdil: View Post
Where are they getting this? Is there some nut job out there preaching that all atheist hate christians? I know I have seen some absurd stuff saying that atheists are trying to destroy religion and what not but this was rather personal and I wonder where the hell it is coming from.
Those nutjobs trying to destroy religion are the Atheists. You guys are systematically trying to strip religion from the American way of life which is grossly offensive to us. You demand anything that may hint at religion (intelligent design for example) be stripped from schools. You sue to remove crosses people erect alongside the roads. You sue to eliminate nativity scenes from public land during Christmas. You sue to eliminate "moments of silence" in school because people might have the audacity to pray. And Darwin forbid if anyone leads a prayer before a school football game.

Even more appalling is that you can encourage gay sex, communism, and anti-Americanism in school but the one topic of speech explicitly protected by the constitution (expression of religion) has somehow been banned by some mythical "wall of separation" between church and state.

As to atheists hating religious people, as with every generalization there are exceptions. Heck, there are probably even a few Al-Queda members who don't hate non-Muslims. But the atheists I've met generally fall into one of three categories: The "I hate religion" atheists, the "I'm an atheist because I'm smarter than you" atheists, and the "I don't care" atheists.

There are lots and lots of "I hate religion" atheists out there. They are the ones leading the ACLU against people who dare to express religion in public. They often bring up the crusades or some other travesties done in the name of religion as an excuse for their hatred.

There are also lots of "I'm smarter than you" atheists out there. They are often at college where their liberal professors have indoctrinated them into thinking religion is just a bunch of primitive superstition, or some sort of psychological blanket to allow the weak minded to cope with the injstices of the world. They often talk about science as if it is mutually exclusive with religion. They are thus generally hostile to religion as they see it as a hinderance to the advancement of science.

Perhaps the largest segment are the "I don't care" atheists. They probably wouldn't even call themselves atheists if asked. Although most numerous, you don't hear much from them (for example they wouldn't be posting in this section of the forum) so the atheist movement is largely defined by the other two groups.
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(22-Jan-2008 at 17:52)


If you were wondering whether those presuppositions were found in the general Christian public, then the answer is no. But people will believe different things. Just don't hate somebody for being Christian.

s o u l f i r e
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(22-Jan-2008 at 18:57)
Definitly some good points about atheist, exept I believe that it is more about the individual atheist, opposed to the atheist society in whole.
Its not only the atheist that try to over throw, religious ideas like "prayers in the class-room" and nativity scenes on christmas, sometimes, other religions are tired of seing a nativity scene, when they don't celebrate christmas.

Last edited by Rad Mc bad, 22-Jan-2008 at 18:59.
#8  
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(22-Jan-2008 at 23:51)


Re: "But you obviously hate us..."

Originally Posted by Royal Assassin3: View Post
Those nutjobs trying to destroy religion are the Atheists. You guys are systematically trying to strip religion from the American way of life which is grossly offensive to us. You demand anything that may hint at religion (intelligent design for example) be stripped from schools. You sue to remove crosses people erect alongside the roads. You sue to eliminate nativity scenes from public land during Christmas. You sue to eliminate "moments of silence" in school because people might have the audacity to pray. And Darwin forbid if anyone leads a prayer before a school football game.
The inteligent design example is a horrible one, because to be taught in science class it would need to be scientific and supported by evidence, it isnt. It falls into the same category as young earth creationism. The other examples you bring up are things i probably agree with you upon, it is being taken too far by a bunch of vocal idiots.
Quote:

Even more appalling is that you can encourage gay sex, communism, and anti-Americanism in school but the one topic of speech explicitly protected by the constitution (expression of religion) has somehow been banned by some mythical "wall of separation" between church and state.
What two consenting adults do is their business and you have no right to tell them otherways, if they want to be open about it thats their right aswell. As for encouraging communism and anti-Americanism im not sure what you are exactly geting at. But again at the expression of religion part i agree with you, its something that should be allowed.
Quote:

As to atheists hating religious people, as with every generalization there are exceptions. Heck, there are probably even a few Al-Queda members who don't hate non-Muslims. But the atheists I've met generally fall into one of three categories: The "I hate religion" atheists, the "I'm an atheist because I'm smarter than you" atheists, and the "I don't care" atheists.

There are lots and lots of "I hate religion" atheists out there. They are the ones leading the ACLU against people who dare to express religion in public. They often bring up the crusades or some other travesties done in the name of religion as an excuse for their hatred.
I don't like these people any more than you do or any more than I like people who Bring up Stalin as an example of how atheism is bad.quote]

There are also lots of "I'm smarter than you" atheists out there. They are often at college where their liberal professors have indoctrinated them into thinking religion is just a bunch of primitive superstition, or some sort of psychological blanket to allow the weak minded to cope with the injstices of the world. They often talk about science as if it is mutually exclusive with religion. They are thus generally hostile to religion as they see it as a hinderance to the advancement of science.[/quote] Acording to you I should fall into this group, but I arrived at that conclusion without any indoctrination at the age of 14 because of what i had by then learned about human history and the various religions that had existed andcontinued to exist by then. I am only hostile towards religion when it tries to bud into spheres that it has nothing to do with like science or when religious people think they have the right to tell me how I am suposed to live.
Quote:

Perhaps the largest segment are the "I don't care" atheists. They probably wouldn't even call themselves atheists if asked. Although most numerous, you don't hear much from them (for example they wouldn't be posting in this section of the forum) so the atheist movement is largely defined by the other two groups.
The same can be said about christians in America, by far the loudest group are the fundamentalists who suport their literal reading of the Bible as fanaticaly as any other religious fanatic in known history has. While the majority are sensible people who inadvertently catch some of the filth driping off their louder comrades.

Official #la drunken bum and gun-nut
Ladies, does this rag smell of chloroform to you?
To Naz "Nacho, nacho man I've got to be, a nacho man Nacho, nacho man"
I don't respect your beliefs and I don't care if you're offended. Cheers.

Last edited by Antikristuseke, 22-Jan-2008 at 23:54.
#9  
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Posts: 838/1971
(23-Jan-2008 at 01:28)


antikristuseke pretty much hit the nail on the head

ill add that i dont see why the "i dont care" atheists wouldnt be in this forum section - because while they may not have any specific belief on the existence or nonexistence of god, id say many would still be interested in the beliefs of others - which is basically why im here

Tax collectors are a valid military target - chobham
#10  
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(23-Jan-2008 at 06:03)


Re: "But you obviously hate us..."

Originally Posted by Royal Assassin3: View Post

There are lots and lots of "I hate religion" atheists out there. They are the ones leading the ACLU against people who dare to express religion in public. They often bring up the crusades or some other travesties done in the name of religion as an excuse for their hatred.
THIS IS UTTER BULLSHIT AND I'M SICK OF HEARING THIS!!!!

The ACLU is continually filing briefs, and representing people who express religion.

my nerves get so shot when I have to keep reading and hearing this kind of slander and libel.

"I KEEK A TOUCHDOWN!" - Garo Yepremian
#11  
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Posts: 4306/4829
(23-Jan-2008 at 16:06)


Re: "But you obviously hate us..."

Originally Posted by Sister Klon: View Post
THIS IS UTTER BULLSHIT AND I'M SICK OF HEARING THIS!!!!

The ACLU is continually filing briefs, and representing people who express religion.

my nerves get so shot when I have to keep reading and hearing this kind of slander and libel.
How does the fact that the ACLU occassionally joins with some nominally religious people in an effort to strip religion (particularly christianity) from public places counter what I said? Oh but I will grant they do a good job representing Muslims.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2006/...us_hypocr.html

ACLU joins with Lesbian Agnostics to ban Boyscouts from public land:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=48787

ACLU sues against nativity scene:
http://atheism.about.com/library/dec...USchundler.htm

ACLU sues against Crosses at war memorials:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=53179

More suits against even crosses privately maintained since 1934:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/taste/?id=110006747

ACLU sues against moments of silence:
http://www.sj-r.com/news/statehouse/...ment_of_silen/

ACLU suing football coaches for leading their teams in prayer:
http://www.aclu.org/religion/schools...s19990628.html

ACLU sues to remove protrait of Jesus:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=50846

ACLU sues to ban ten commandment monuments from courts:
http://www.freedomforum.org/template...cumentID=15708

ACLU sues to remove cross from Los Angeles county seal since 1957:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,121039,00.html
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(23-Jan-2008 at 16:56)
Re: "But you obviously hate us..."

Originally Posted by Royal Assassin3: View Post
ACLU sues to ban ten commandment monuments from courts:
http://www.freedomforum.org/template...cumentID=15708
Some of the suits may be silly, but this one is important. There must be no doubt as to what law is applied in courts.
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(24-Jan-2008 at 00:02)


This ACLU discussion is sort of off-topic and even more political than religious, I'll post my responses in a thread in RGD...and acknowledge my role in derailing this thread.

Back on topic: your sister must be brainless, Irim- to have grown up with you and have allowed someone outside your relationship to decide how you feel about her.

"I KEEK A TOUCHDOWN!" - Garo Yepremian
#14  
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Posts: 13/27
(24-Jan-2008 at 18:47)


Re: "But you obviously hate us..."

Originally Posted by Sister Klon: View Post
This ACLU discussion is sort of off-topic and even more political than religious, I'll post my responses in a thread in RGD...and acknowledge my role in derailing this thread.

Back on topic: your sister must be brainless, Irim- to have grown up with you and have allowed someone outside your relationship to decide how you feel about her.
Well I wouldnt go so far as brainless, but she isnt the sharpest knife in the drawer. She is maried to a man that didnt understand why the level of dirt didnt go down as plants grow...(a grown man)

However, it seems to me that she must fall into the same group as RA3 there. RA3 you do understand that I dont hate you or christians right? Just because I dont believe in your god? And the fact that you are damn right that I dont want prayer forced on my kids.

"I am somewhat preoccupied telling the laws of physics to shut up and sit down" V
I dont know how I got here, or where I was going, but now that Im here I am scared...
My moodiness makes me profound. I appreciate Herman Melville and you don't.
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(25-Jan-2008 at 05:35)


I just hope she learns to trust her experience with you over what some preacher or dittohead has told her... I would hate to have something like that happen with my sisters.

"I KEEK A TOUCHDOWN!" - Garo Yepremian
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(04-Feb-2008 at 04:30)


Re: "But you obviously hate us..."

Originally Posted by Irimholdil: View Post
So that little bit of wording was provided to me by my rather (scary) religious sister and her husband one night. We were discussing religion, or rather my defined lack there of. And to make a long story short it came down them saying that because I am an atheist I must HATE them, and all christians for that matter.

So what is my question you ask?

Where are they getting this? Is there some nut job out there preaching that all atheist hate christians? I know I have seen some absurd stuff saying that atheists are trying to destroy religion and what not but this was rather personal and I wonder where the hell it is coming from.

Before I answer your question I must say that you should definately ask your sister how she came to the conclusion that you hate her and her husband or religion (depending on the meaning of the pronoun "us" that she used).

I can only guess as to where they are "getting this". I would guess that it has more to do with your actions, and words over the time you've spent with your sister rather than one discussion about religion even if it was a heated argument. I can see how personal this comment was to you but I am sure that you have a better answer as to where it is coming from than any of us would. After all she is your sister and only you know her. I can say that while it could be some outside influence on your sister from church publications or whatever it is far more likely that she came to this conclusion based on her interactions with you.
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(05-Feb-2008 at 12:53)
I will start by telling you my own faith/lack of/uncertainty. I honestly couldn't say that I know what I believe. I do care, but I just can't decide or have enough faith to decide one way or another as much as it often frustrates me, upsets me etc....

However...I send my children to a catholic school and all have been christened. I guess..just in case? They go to catholic school because regardless of whether I believe or not, I think faith is important as is being taught a moral compass. They are very compassionate and have much empathy for others, partly taught by me but backed up by the teachings at their school.

If I were completely atheist, I would still have no problem with them participating in morning prayer, reflection time, advent etc...because it would pose itself as a very little sacrifice for the gains that they get from attending the school itself. It's one of the top schools in the country, a caring environment, relaxed, involved, everything I want from a school for my children.

I think it is wrong to stop christians from outwardly practicing their faith...You don't try to stop scientists advertising or practicing outwardly their beliefs!
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(05-Feb-2008 at 21:30)


Re: "But you obviously hate us..."

Originally Posted by Sweet Deanie: View Post
I will start by telling you my own faith/lack of/uncertainty. I honestly couldn't say that I know what I believe. I do care, but I just can't decide or have enough faith to decide one way or another as much as it often frustrates me, upsets me etc....

However...I send my children to a catholic school and all have been christened. I guess..just in case? They go to catholic school because regardless of whether I believe or not, I think faith is important as is being taught a moral compass. They are very compassionate and have much empathy for others, partly taught by me but backed up by the teachings at their school.
Why is faith important? How is blindly believing in something fictitious a beneficial trait? Santa Claus is one thing, dedicating their lives to a false reality is something completely different. Furthermore, I'm sick of hearing this moral compass rubbish. Do you honestly believe religion has any bearing on the development of morals? Religion is the codification of morals for a society. I wasn't raised religious, I'm an athiest, and yet somehow I have a significantly stricter "moral code" than does your average Christian. Humans are social animals. The way we learn and develop naturally predispose us towards possessing moral and ethical beliefs that are in line with the society and culture in which we're raised. Religion just attempts to force a certain similar moral code onto all its adherents regardless of the validity, relevance or rationality of those particular morals.

You should be raising your children to make decisions for themselves and to think using reason and intelligence. Given those faculties, when they're older and less impressionable they can use their reason, intelligence and ability to think with an open mind to decide if religion (and which) is the answer for them.

Originally Posted by Sweet Deanie: View Post
If I were completely atheist, I would still have no problem with them participating in morning prayer, reflection time, advent etc...because it would pose itself as a very little sacrifice for the gains that they get from attending the school itself. It's one of the top schools in the country, a caring environment, relaxed, involved, everything I want from a school for my children.

I think it is wrong to stop christians from outwardly practicing their faith...You don't try to stop scientists advertising or practicing outwardly their beliefs!
So you are making a choice, which is reasonable. The argument is against forced prayer and religious time. School is mandatory. So public schools cannot be allowed to force their students to pray, because it shouldn't be state policy to make certain every new generation is raised religiously. This harkens back to the old policy of "seperation of church and state." If a parent feels it's beneficial for their child to use their school time to pray, they can instruct their child to find time to do so. And when they come home from school, they can pray all bloody day long if that's what it takes.

Also, scientists don't "practice a set of beliefs" of any form. Hence why it is possible for a Christian, or a Muslim, or a Hindu, or any person of religious persuasion to also be a scientist. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."
-Soren Kierkegaard
"Those who know don't say, and those who say don't know."
- Lao Tzu
More Quotes...

Last edited by Syke, 05-Feb-2008 at 21:34.
Edit reason: Lleps kcehc
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(05-Feb-2008 at 23:59)
We hate God, that is why we ignore Him, overlooking Him as if we did not see Him, and pretending to be atheists. In reality we consider Him our enemy par excellence. Our negation is our vengeance, our atheism is our revenge.
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