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(Posted as B1ackAurora)
Posts: 433/469
(12-Dec-2011 at 22:09)


Get it fixed! Part 2: Reforming the EU

Hello RGD-ers!

Welcome to another edition of my new series of topics where im gonna try to trigger some nice discussions. In each part, I will present a problem in the world. It's up to you to present us with a roadmap towards a solution. Now, the focus of these threads is -not- on whodunnit or what-should-really-be. Look at the situation at hand and think of what -you- would consider the best way to come to a proper, solid solution. Also, we can discuss the suggestions that have been posted.

Part 2: Reforming the EU

I think we can all agree the European Union is a unique and ambitious project and institution. After the bloodiest century Europe ever had it majorly contributed to a Europe where war between European nations seems more unlikely than ever.

However the EU has hit hard times. In the early nineties it was mostly an economic union. About 10 years ago the Euro was introduced though and attempt was made to form a political union. This attempt eventually lead to the Lisbon treaty, establishing the EU in it's current form.

Euroscepticism is on the rise in the member nations. A lot of people feel that the EU lacks proper democratic representation and can not represent it's citizens. Internally, the nations struggle to come to agreements when it comes to solving problems and presenting a foreign policy.

The form of and system behind the Euro have caused a financial crisis that is leaning on the edge of a whole series of countries collapsing.The geopolitical landscape is transforming to a situation where the say of an individual European country has little weight, with new powers like the BRIC on the scene.

Whenever changes are made, they just seem to be another patchwork treaty adding to the pile of paperwork that is the EU. But what is the solution to all this? Which way should the EU go? Should it centralize further and become more of a superstate? Or should the EU take a step back and return to areas that infringe less on national souvereignty?

How would you reform the EU?
#1  
View Public Profile Visit Black Oranje's homepage Find more posts by Black Oranje Add Black Oranje to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
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(13-Dec-2011 at 15:41)


There are many things but I think the most important should be the ability to kick out failures like Greece. Also I think there should be a strict economic oversight so that again situations like Greece can be avoided

The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common; they don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit the views
#2  
View Public Profile Find more posts by DHoffryn Add DHoffryn to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 6885/7006
(13-Dec-2011 at 16:42)


The problem is the Euro, not the EU. It is a currency without sovereignty and hence without a 'lender of last resort' backing it. This is a necessary evil, unless political union is achieved, so that is what the EU needs - a central government.

On Greece; who lent them the money that has got them into debt? You guessed it - the same EU countries (most notably Germany) who are bitching at them now. That, and the debt is not the problem anyway.

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." But let it be considered that he did not mean a real and generous love of our country, but that pretended patriotism which so many, in all ages and countries, have made a cloak of self- interest.
#3  
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Posts: 1496/1637
(14-Dec-2011 at 01:37)
Re: Get it fixed! Part 2: Reforming the EU

1. Kick the satellite nations out of the EU.
2. Get rid of that bitch Merkel.
4. Make Berlin the capital of the EU.
5. Erect collossal monuments of Charlemagne and rename the EU into the Holy Roman Empire.
#4  
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(Posted as B1ackAurora)
Posts: 434/469
(14-Dec-2011 at 18:49)


Re: Get it fixed! Part 2: Reforming the EU

Originally Posted by Gotterdammerung: View Post
1. Kick the satellite nations out of the EU.
Which nations do you propose should be kicked out of the EU?

Quote:
2. Get rid of that bitch Merkel.
How do you propose getting rid of a democratically elected leader?

Quote:
4. Make Berlin the capital of the EU.
You missed 3. Also, how would the situation improve from moving the capital to Berlin instead of Brussels?

Quote:
5. Erect collossal monuments of Charlemagne and rename the EU into the Holy Roman Empire.
What is it with you and ancient empires?
#5  
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(15-Dec-2011 at 03:35)
Re: Get it fixed! Part 2: Reforming the EU

Originally Posted by B1ackAurora: View Post
What is it with you and ancient empires?
Just a bit of self-parody.

But honestly, I think making Berlin the capital of the EU and moving towards centralization is a very good idea.
#6  
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(Posted as B1ackAurora)
Posts: 436/469
(16-Dec-2011 at 23:35)


Re: Get it fixed! Part 2: Reforming the EU

Originally Posted by Gotterdammerung: View Post
But honestly, I think making Berlin the capital of the EU and moving towards centralization is a very good idea.
Why would making Berlin the capital of the EU be a good idea? What are the advantages over having Brussels as the 'capital'?
#7  
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(17-Dec-2011 at 17:40)


Maybe because it is in Germany? I don't know, but I too would like to hear what Götterdämmerung has to say.

As a side line, and because your post count is relatively low so you may not have debated with him much, don't take Götter too seriously. He is not what he appears! He is a smart guy, and he does have morals, but he likes to play devils advocate which is why he takes these radical positions.

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." But let it be considered that he did not mean a real and generous love of our country, but that pretended patriotism which so many, in all ages and countries, have made a cloak of self- interest.
#8  
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Posts: 1501/1637
(19-Dec-2011 at 03:11)
Re: Get it fixed! Part 2: Reforming the EU

Originally Posted by B1ackAurora: View Post
Why would making Berlin the capital of the EU be a good idea? What are the advantages over having Brussels as the 'capital'?
The socialistic pipedream that was the European union is collapsing. A new model needs to be established, namely international corporatism.

It is nonsensical to have economically diverse nations in a so-called union, without proper direction and organization. Not only should Germany, the strongest and most influencial nation, manage the financial flow of money, but they should also manage each sector of the union to maximize collective efforts, stability and above all corporate responcibility (and not get into such destructive situations as the one currectly caused by vapid, corrupt, pipedream socialism).

Berlin is the logical centre of European corporatism. It is the physical and intellectual centre. The future of the 'union starts in Berlin.
#9  
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(Posted as B1ackAurora)
Posts: 438/469
(19-Dec-2011 at 14:59)


Without trying to Godwin, that sounds a whole lot like fascism/national socialism.
#10  
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(20-Dec-2011 at 00:10)
Re: Get it fixed! Part 2: Reforming the EU

Originally Posted by B1ackAurora: View Post
Without trying to Godwin, that sounds a whole lot like fascism/national socialism.
Why not.
#11  
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(26-Dec-2011 at 05:38)


Re: Get it fixed! Part 2: Reforming the EU

Originally Posted by B1ackAurora: View Post
Without trying to Godwin, that sounds a whole lot like fascism/national socialism.
He has a Hitler fetish

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"
R.I.P. InJustice!
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EWE-tah
#12  
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Posts: 1672/1675
(05-Jan-2012 at 23:26)


id like to pose some questions instead:

(how) is the EU failing exactly?

have there been successes?

is it a problem to struggle to come to agreements? (isnt that what democracy is about?)

Is euroscepticism a problem? Popular opinion doesnt necessarily always reflect real world situations

Im asking these things because without a substantial problem you cant really formulate a solution. In the case of the Israel-Palestine case theres a clearly defined problem (people are killing each other, living in fear, causing massive suffering) and as such we can think about preventing this from happening, but what needs to be prevented or solved in case of the EU? What is its core unique (set of) problem(s)?

"Observers worldwide have been expressing great pity for the people of Gaza [...] This pity may be a natural emotional reaction, yet it is unethical and immoral." - Adi Dvir, Ynetnews editor
#13  
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Posts: 6909/7006
(06-Jan-2012 at 13:13)


Quote:
(how) is the EU failing exactly?
High unemployment, slow growth, debt repayments sky-high because they have to borrow at market rates instead of having a national bank to borrow from, and a bunch of idiots obsessed with austerity running the show.


Quote:
have there been successes?
Creating the EU, and the Euro, at all. It is a great idea, and every country in Europe needs it, but I am appalled by the way it is implemented.


Quote:
is it a problem to struggle to come to agreements? (isnt that what democracy is about?)
Consensus is the problem, not the answer. By the time they have pratted about with an idea to get 27 (or whatever the number is now...) groups of politicians to agree to it, it has invariably been compromised into a feeble, meaningless, shadow of the original concept.


Quote:
Is euroscepticism a problem? Popular opinion doesnt necessarily always reflect real world situations
An irritation perhaps, but you get right-wing nuts in every country. The best thing is to ignore their ignorant childish rantings.

What Europe needs is more integration, more centralised control, and less blabbering about "Ooooh! Ooooh! What about our sovereignty?"

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." But let it be considered that he did not mean a real and generous love of our country, but that pretended patriotism which so many, in all ages and countries, have made a cloak of self- interest.
#14  
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Posts: 1526/1637
(07-Jan-2012 at 14:40)
Re: Get it fixed! Part 2: Reforming the EU

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason: View Post
What Europe needs is more integration, more centralised control, and less blabbering about "Ooooh! Ooooh! What about our sovereignty?"
Indeed it does. It is literally written in the fabric of the union. The prosperity would write itself if not for all the lunchtime gossip.

But then, what would it require to 'get shit done'? I think you know.
#15  
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