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Posts: 100/125
(17-May-2008 at 04:13)
cally allows gay marriage

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/0...nia-court.html

Seem parts of America has decided to join the Free world /discuss.

Terror's tha product ya push
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#1  
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(17-May-2008 at 04:21)


No just another example of judges writing law and not doing their job.

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September 11, 2001
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Posts: 101/125
(17-May-2008 at 04:29)
Re: cally allows gay marriage

Originally Posted by Invictus2001: View Post
No just another example of judges writing law and not doing their job.
If making and upholding laws isn't a judges job than what is?

Terror's tha product ya push
Well I'm a truth addict, oh **** I gotta headrush
#3  
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(17-May-2008 at 04:32)


Re: cally allows gay marriage

Originally Posted by bonez332: View Post
If making and upholding laws isn't a judges job than what is?
I always thought judges were to be a neutral unbiased mediator.

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(17-May-2008 at 04:33)


Judges job is to interpret the law. The Congress (or state legislature) makes the law. The Executive branch upholds the law. Its a little thing we call the separation of power. By "making" law, judges would be in violation of the Constitution, which is definitely not their job.

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(17-May-2008 at 04:44)
Re: cally allows gay marriage

Originally Posted by Necal: View Post
Judges job is to interpret the law. The Congress (or state legislature) makes the law. The Executive branch upholds the law. Its a little thing we call the separation of power. By "making" law, judges would be in violation of the Constitution, which is definitely not their job.
And thats exactly what they did in this case, someone claimed that their rights were being violated, they clearly were and the judges took steps to insure that his rights were protected.

The judges didn't just get together and say hay what can we do to piss people off today, no a case was brought to their court by a group that felt they were being discriminated against by an unconstitutional law and they acted accordingly. If this isn't how the system is supposed to work than i really don't know what you expect from your system.

Terror's tha product ya push
Well I'm a truth addict, oh **** I gotta headrush

Last edited by bonez332, 17-May-2008 at 04:46.
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(17-May-2008 at 04:44)


Re: cally allows gay marriage

Originally Posted by bonez332: View Post
If making and upholding laws isn't a judges job than what is?
Judges should only be making common law and making precedents. Not statute law.

Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege!
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Last edited by Alexstrasza, 17-May-2008 at 04:44.
#7  
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Posts: 1029/1971
(17-May-2008 at 04:59)


while it is not the court's duty to create law, it seems to me they have ruled that the law banning same-sex marriage is in violation of the contitution, and that is something they most definitely have the authority to do

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(17-May-2008 at 05:33)


Finding a law to be unconstitutional is most certainly in the job description. Now we'll have to endure weeks of "activist judges" rants.
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(17-May-2008 at 06:09)


Yup, I can't complain about the way they came to make this decision, for reasons others have already given.

And I certainly can't complain about them legalizing gay marriage. Simply enough, there is no good reason for it to be banned.

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin
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(17-May-2008 at 09:36)


URL: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle3949789.ece

I guess Ellen DeGeneres and her partner Portia De Rossi intend on getting married now. I’ll also bet that a lot of other same sex couples will be getting married, too.

Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege!
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(17-May-2008 at 12:07)


Re: cally allows gay marriage

Originally Posted by Spectre19: View Post
while it is not the court's duty to create law, it seems to me they have ruled that the law banning same-sex marriage is in violation of the contitution, and that is something they most definitely have the authority to do
Quote:
"Our state now recognizes that an individual's capacity to establish a loving and long-term committed relationship with another person and responsibly to care for and raise children does not depend upon the individual's sexual orientation," Chief Justice Ron George wrote for the court's majority.
That quote is not just saying the law was a bad one.

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#12  
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(17-May-2008 at 12:48)


Re: cally allows gay marriage

Originally Posted by Invictus2001: View Post
That quote is not just saying the law was a bad one.
Exactly. This is one of those social issues I care little about, but I agree that judges should not be making laws. Even if I agreed with gay marriage I would oppose the method used to enact it, just like how abortion became 'legal' across the US.

Shit like this, where the government usurps the ability of people to govern themselves arbitrarily, disturbs me FAR more than some imaginary loss of freedom from a very transparent Patriot Act.

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(17-May-2008 at 12:59)


Quote:
That quote is not just saying the law was a bad one.
yes it is, how is it not?? he's implying that it would be unconstitutional for it to depend on one's sexuality

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(17-May-2008 at 14:25)


Originally Posted by M1:
Exactly. This is one of those social issues I care little about, but I agree that judges should not be making laws. Even if I agreed with gay marriage I would oppose the method used to enact it, just like how abortion became 'legal' across the US.
If judges aren't making laws, they are interpreting and judging that it is unconstitutional. If judges shouldn't interpret laws, who should? The whole point Western democracy is to separate secular, religious, and judicial issues.


Quote:
Shit like this, where the government usurps the ability of people to govern themselves arbitrarily, disturbs me FAR more than some imaginary loss of freedom from a very transparent Patriot Act.
The whole point of GOVERNment is to govern the people, and most democrats are happy enough to let them do that.

Of course, if you are a rampant communist then you would prefer the people to rule themselves arbitrarily...


Originally Posted by Invictus:
"Our state now recognizes that an individual's capacity to establish a loving and long-term committed relationship with another person and responsibly to care for and raise children does not depend upon the individual's sexual orientation," Chief Justice Ron George wrote for the court's majority.
While I have no issue with same sex couples, I do have an issue with them raising children. Couples who are unable to have children is one thing, but couples who choose to be an inherently infertile relationship is another. Conceiving a child absolutely, 100%, does depend on sexual orientation.

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." But let it be considered that he did not mean a real and generous love of our country, but that pretended patriotism which so many, in all ages and countries, have made a cloak of self- interest.
#15  
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(17-May-2008 at 16:50)
Well, I think the right to adopt childeren and the right to marry people from the same sex is different. I have no problem if a gay couple chooses to marry. Although I think it's pretty awkward.
Anyway, there is no reason to ban it. Esepcially since there are certain financial bonuses that apply to married couples only I think it is important that everyone get's an equal chance. Medicines already failed so it's time to just accept ^^.
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(17-May-2008 at 17:28)
Re: cally allows gay marriage

Originally Posted by Michael1: View Post
Exactly. This is one of those social issues I care little about, but I agree that judges should not be making laws. Even if I agreed with gay marriage I would oppose the method used to enact it, just like how abortion became 'legal' across the US.

Shit like this, where the government usurps the ability of people to govern themselves arbitrarily, disturbs me FAR more than some imaginary loss of freedom from a very transparent Patriot Act.
Did I understand you correctly? You claim that when the courts decided that abortions were not illegal that infringed upon people's right to govern themselves? That when a court says that you can not constitutionally ban gay marriages you are infringing upon people's freedom? Seems to me that courts in these cases wants to limit the right of the government to regulate people's lives. Your support of the Patriot Act just confirms that you really want the government to have unlimited ability to regulate the lives of people.
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(17-May-2008 at 20:07)


I find it amazing that when the Courts decide in favor of michael1 or Invictus it is upholding the will of the people, but when it decides against their wishes, it is activist judges. Perhaps they would be kind enough to post who was on the bench and the political affirmatoin of these 'activists' judges.

The Constitution, AFAIK, does not limit rights for homosexuals, in fact my understanding of the US Constitution is that it designed to protect the rights of the minority. There should be no question about the ability of people to marry whomever they wish. Itr is not the government's business, not the neighbors business, not the employers business, and especially not the business of a few social retards that use religious texts as a means of protecting their delicate sensibilities from a situationthey may view as icky.

If one justifiable reason can be advanced why we should not allow gays to marry, please advance it.

Originally Posted by Maceman:
Well, I think the right to adopt childeren and the right to marry people from the same sex is different. I have no problem if a gay couple chooses to marry. Although I think it's pretty awkward.
You are basing the rights of others to marry those they love, on your feelings of awkwardness (although you do seem willing to overlook your personal bias towards this). I am also awkward around the issue, but do not feel my personal problems should impact on the feelings of others.

Originally Posted by VoR:
While I have no issue with same sex couples, I do have an issue with them raising children.
I understand your point, but can gays actually be any worse parents than many of the straights who have children? Should it not perhaps be judged on the ability to raise children in a loving home that is relatively stable, than the need to have proper role models within the home? A inclusive statement like this implies that all gays will be unfit parents, when judged against the straight community, which simply is not true. I know children and adults raised in both situations, and have heard far more horror stories about straight marriage than gay couples.

Originally Posted by Michael1:
Even if I agreed with gay marriage I would oppose the method used to enact it, just like how abortion became 'legal' across the US.
Why do you oppose gay marriage? Can you give a legitimate reason?

Originally Posted by Michael1:
Shit like this, where the government usurps the ability of people to govern themselves arbitrarily, disturbs me FAR more than some imaginary loss of freedom from a very transparent Patriot Act.
And yet do you not understand that by needing to make gay marriage legal in California, it did create a problem in how certain people were allowed to live, and pursue happiness through suppression of rights allowed to any other adult couple. What right does the government, or you, have in telling how a pair of adults must live one's life?

Originally Posted by Invictus:
That quote is not just saying the law was a bad one.
Your right, that quote is saying that gays should have the same rights as any other couple. What dastardly asses those judges are, forcing equality on the American people, and using the actual Constitution of the US to do it.

“The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread.”
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Posts: 103/125
(17-May-2008 at 20:08)
Re: cally allows gay marriage

Originally Posted by Michael1: View Post
Exactly. This is one of those social issues I care little about, but I agree that judges should not be making laws. Even if I agreed with gay marriage I would oppose the method used to enact it, just like how abortion became 'legal' across the US.

Shit like this, where the government usurps the ability of people to govern themselves arbitrarily, disturbs me FAR more than some imaginary loss of freedom from a very transparent Patriot Act.
The exact opposite is the exact reason why you have a judicial system in the first place. The system is their to judge people and concepts against the rule of law, not pander to the whims of the population.

If i was to take what you said word for word, (and somewhat out of context ill admit) Than if a community feels they have the right to hang someone for a crime than the judicial system has no right to interfere. Same would apply if a school suddenly decided it didn't want to admit black people.

The judical system needs the right to do whats right, even if it ruffles a few ignorant feathers (not you just the people who are making/signing the new petition.)

Terror's tha product ya push
Well I'm a truth addict, oh **** I gotta headrush
#19  
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(17-May-2008 at 20:19)


Re: cally allows gay marriage

Originally Posted by Michael1: View Post

Shit like this, where the government usurps the ability of people to govern themselves arbitrarily, disturbs me FAR more than some imaginary loss of freedom from a very transparent Patriot Act.
How exactly is giving equal rights to a minoroity taking away the ability of people to govern themselves? Now if you are banning civil marraige /christianity/ free speech for black people and so on that would disturb the rights of people. But as it is now. You are simply giving equal rights to one group while the minority remains completly unnafected.

And do you seriously think it's a good idea for the popualtion itself to decide what rights a minority should have? The tyrany of the majority seems like a bad concept to me


I am not even going to go on how insane i think is that this worries you more then the patriotic act

The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common; they don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit the views

Last edited by DHoffryn, 17-May-2008 at 20:21.
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