Utopia Temple
Main Forum Page Register an Account for Free! Calendar Frequently Asked Questions about this Board View New Posts Advanced Search Login
  Utopia Temple Forums > General Discussions > Respectable General Discussions > Religious Discussions

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
  Post New Thread Reply
Author Thread
Posts: 1504/1637
(19-Dec-2011 at 04:47)
The Blood God

Every religion cannot be right. But maybe this is the point. Maybe we've got God wrong.

"I will make my arrows drunk with blood, and my sword will devour flesh."
-- Deuteronomy 32:42, The Holy Bible.


Does violence please Him? Could the existance of multiple, incompatible religions in today's world really be a divine plan to spill the blood of men and satisfy the hungry Lord?
#1  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Gotterdammerung Add Gotterdammerung to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Global Moderator
Posts: 3819/3863
(19-Dec-2011 at 05:35)


No.

There is no god, so there is no divine plan. All that exists are the words used to dominate the minds of the masses for the benefit of the few.

Finding divine meaning in words written by men is indulging in fantasy. Believing the fantasy is delusion.

People, like snowflakes, are all slightly different, but we all follow the same patterns -Stewie
Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it.

Some people are like Slinkies- absolutely useless, but always fun to push down stairs!

Last edited by Azure Dragon, 19-Dec-2011 at 05:38.
#2  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Azure Dragon Add Azure Dragon to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 209/209
(19-Dec-2011 at 05:39)


Originally Posted by Gotterdammerung: View Post
Every religion cannot be right. But maybe this is the point. Maybe we've got God wrong.

"I will make my arrows drunk with blood, and my sword will devour flesh."
-- Deuteronomy 32:42, The Holy Bible.


Does violence please Him? Could the existance of multiple, incompatible religions in today's world really be a divine plan to spill the blood of men and satisfy the hungry Lord?
Deuteronomy is old testament ... since you're quoting the Bible, implies a Christian point of view. With the death of Jesus, a change was made to follow new testament preachings - those of a loving, forgiving God.

"Well played, Roxtin. You are now officially the God of flying under the radar " ~MeliHeartsCloud from The Mafia of Zelda: Twilight princess
#3  
View Public Profile Visit Roxtin's homepage Find more posts by Roxtin Add Roxtin to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 1505/1637
(19-Dec-2011 at 05:54)
Re: The Blood God

Originally Posted by Azure Dragon: View Post
There is no god, so there is no divine plan.
How else can you explain the abnomally surrounding bloodshed in the name of religion?

Originally Posted by Roxtin: View Post
Deuteronomy is old testament ... since you're quoting the Bible, implies a Christian point of view. With the death of Jesus, a change was made to follow new testament preachings - those of a loving, forgiving God.
The God in the old testament is the same one in the new testament, yes? So how do you know that the death of Jesus didn't herald in a new age of bloodshed? Read:

"The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of Godís wrath. They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horsesí bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia."
-- Rev 14:19-20, New Testament
#4  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Gotterdammerung Add Gotterdammerung to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 6893/7006
(19-Dec-2011 at 13:42)


Quote:
How else can you explain the abnomally surrounding bloodshed in the name of religion?
Easy. Power hungry people using religion as an excuse, and masses of dumb people who believe them. Politics is very similar: power hungry people using political ideology as an excuse, and masses of dumb people who believe them.


Quote:
The God in the old testament is the same one in the new testament, yes?
Allegedly...

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." But let it be considered that he did not mean a real and generous love of our country, but that pretended patriotism which so many, in all ages and countries, have made a cloak of self- interest.
#5  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Voice of Reason Add Voice of Reason to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 1507/1637
(20-Dec-2011 at 00:00)
Re: The Blood God

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason: View Post
Easy. Power hungry people using religion as an excuse, and masses of dumb people who believe them. Politics is very similar: power hungry people using political ideology as an excuse, and masses of dumb people who believe them.
But stupidity alone doesn't make you violent, does it?

Is all violence a by product of brainwashing by power hungry people?

Are people THAT malleable?
#6  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Gotterdammerung Add Gotterdammerung to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 6895/7006
(20-Dec-2011 at 09:30)


Violence is inherently stupid, and only stupid people howl for violence. And yes, a lot of people really are that stupid and malleable.

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." But let it be considered that he did not mean a real and generous love of our country, but that pretended patriotism which so many, in all ages and countries, have made a cloak of self- interest.
#7  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Voice of Reason Add Voice of Reason to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Global Moderator
Posts: 3820/3863
(22-Dec-2011 at 03:05)


Re: The Blood God

Originally Posted by Gotterdammerung: View Post
But stupidity alone doesn't make you violent, does it?

Is all violence a by product of brainwashing by power hungry people?

Are people THAT malleable?
No, not all violence.

Religion, politics, nationalism, gangs or even sports teams all tap into the needs of the human psyche on a number of levels and in complicated ways.

It's illogical to be proud of your country of birth. You had no choice in it. You didn't work for the honour of being born there. Why be proud of it? And yet people are.

No-one ever chose their race; and yet people proclaim to be proud to be white, or proud to be black, as if they worked for it.

A Olympic gold medalist has something to be proud of. A fan of some football team who wins the league has nothing to be proud about... they didn't play, they didn't win it themselves.

Religion is just as illogical. Most people don't choose their religion. They get indoctrinated into their parents religion, and they lack the will or the desire to break free. Even if they don't really believe, life is easier if they pretend they do.

Look at the idea of Santa. Millions upon millions of children are indoctrinated to believe in "Santa"; the mythical man who leaves presents under the tree. Children believe in him so readily, they believe their parents lies, until such a time as the falsehood makes itself known.

Santa is only different from the idea of jesus or god, by the fact that what's promised is a tangible item, something that could be proven to exist or not exist.

The idea of Santa in his current form was a marketing ploy, it's success is a testament to how malleable human beings are to influence. That parents knowingly teach, suppport and reinforce a blatant lie to their child proves how sheep-like people are.

Most people are scared of stepping too far away from the "norm". Different people have a different tolerance for the "different". Some attack anything that is slightly different, while others are more tolerant and take longer to go on the attack. Most don't care so long as their lives are unaffected. But the norm can be changed and manipulated.

This manipulation of the norm is how religions, politicians and increasingly, corporations, work. Even hindsight of history clearly shows how the powerful have manipulated the masses.

Religion is just a tool. Nationalism is just a tool. Those who lust for power will always do so.

People, like snowflakes, are all slightly different, but we all follow the same patterns -Stewie
Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it.

Some people are like Slinkies- absolutely useless, but always fun to push down stairs!
#8  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Azure Dragon Add Azure Dragon to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 1510/1637
(22-Dec-2011 at 05:48)
Re: The Blood God

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason: View Post
Violence is inherently stupid, and only stupid people howl for violence. And yes, a lot of people really are that stupid and malleable.
I guess you have a point.

If you wanted to get your own way, you need to recruit others. If you were to work on your own, and be violent, you would most likely fail. The only exception would be if you were extremely surgical in your use of violence.

For example, there have been lots of assassinations in history that have also been religiously motivated. However, these are by far the exception to the rule. Assassins have to be smart and in the minority, counter to being stupid and in the majority.

Your rule holds true, VoR. And once again, the implications are very interesting.

[...]

Originally Posted by Azure Dragon: View Post
This manipulation of the norm is how religions, politicians and increasingly, corporations, work. Even hindsight of history clearly shows how the powerful have manipulated the masses.

Religion is just a tool. Nationalism is just a tool. Those who lust for power will always do so.
I think, more and more, I've just become frustrated with the ever-increasing realization that I've been jibbed.

At the same time it's enlightening to reflect on how you really ought fit into such skulduggery.

Last edited by Gotterdammerung, 22-Dec-2011 at 05:51.
#9  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Gotterdammerung Add Gotterdammerung to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 2808/2825
(08-Jan-2012 at 17:23)


Re: The Blood God

Originally Posted by Azure Dragon: View Post
No.

There is no god, so there is no divine plan. All that exists are the words used to dominate the minds of the masses for the benefit of the few.

Finding divine meaning in words written by men is indulging in fantasy. Believing the fantasy is delusion.
Originally Posted by Azure Dragon: View Post
No.

There is no god, so there is no divine plan. All that exists are the words used to dominate the minds of the masses for the benefit of the few.

Finding divine meaning in words written by men is indulging in fantasy. Believing the fantasy is delusion.
Depends on what you mean under god. If you go by the western Mary Sue version that is all powerful of course not. This is just beyond silly.

However we can always go back to the old alien stuff. Even now it is well within our power to engineer life forms and use them in social experiemnts on a remote island or something similar. Hell we can build islands. And let's face the massive technological leaps have been going only for a hundred or so years. If we keep the current technological pace for the next thousand years it's quite possible for us to engineer life, seed it on another planet and do one hell of a social experiment on it. So who knows it might very well be that we are a social experiment if some alien race. Well no, frankly let's face it there is not a very high probability of that but still never know what's out there. Hell we even explored our own planet

The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common; they don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit the views
#10  
View Public Profile Find more posts by DHoffryn Add DHoffryn to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 228/246
(12-Jan-2012 at 00:11)


Re: The Blood God

Originally Posted by Gotterdammerung: View Post
Every religion cannot be right. But maybe this is the point. Maybe we've got God wrong.

"I will make my arrows drunk with blood, and my sword will devour flesh."
-- Deuteronomy 32:42, The Holy Bible.


Does violence please Him? Could the existance of multiple, incompatible religions in today's world really be a divine plan to spill the blood of men and satisfy the hungry Lord?
Just pointing out that is out of context. If you put it into context you will see that it is about judgement, not just blood lust. You can take any religious text and twist it, but the best way to study it is in context of both the chapter and book as well as the whole of Scripture to gain understanding.

Honour, Courage, Integrity,
these are not just words,
they are a way of life
#11  
View Public Profile Visit Trent's homepage Find more posts by Trent Add Trent to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 1532/1637
(13-Jan-2012 at 03:15)
Re: The Blood God

Originally Posted by Trent: View Post
Just pointing out that is out of context. If you put it into context you will see that it is about judgement, not just blood lust. You can take any religious text and twist it, but the best way to study it is in context of both the chapter and book as well as the whole of Scripture to gain understanding.
It's easy to say that something is out of context if it is unpalatable.

Jesus spilt his own blood for the sins of the world. He is the sacrifical lamb of the old testament. His blood is the divine component. In the Eucharist we consume his blood for the cleansing of our own sins.

Blood is the central theme in the bible.
#12  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Gotterdammerung Add Gotterdammerung to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 229/246
(13-Jan-2012 at 05:04)


Re: The Blood God

Originally Posted by Gotterdammerung: View Post
It's easy to say that something is out of context if it is unpalatable.

Jesus spilt his own blood for the sins of the world. He is the sacrifical lamb of the old testament. His blood is the divine component. In the Eucharist we consume his blood for the cleansing of our own sins.

Blood is the central theme in the bible.
The Eucharist I would argue is Church tradition that was not the way it was done in the Apostles time. It is wine or juice and the substance or essence does not change. Jesus celebrated Passover and his comments there with the bread and wine make sense with all the symbolism. We Quakers find that outward ceremonies do not change the inward being but God can and needs no ceremony for it.

I find much of the OT palatable. It shows the failings of people quite clear. Blood is a common theme which does not bother me.

Honour, Courage, Integrity,
these are not just words,
they are a way of life
#13  
View Public Profile Visit Trent's homepage Find more posts by Trent Add Trent to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
  Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump:

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Religion Ninjoo Religious Discussions 63 28-Feb-2008 01:13
Conversation With God *Sense of Humour Required* Advocatus GoD The Lunatic Asylum 7 02-Feb-2006 04:13
Chrisitanity is full of hypocritical statments and lies! Lord Anubis Religious Discussions 304 02-Mar-2004 14:02
My friends thoughts about god, what ya'll think? Trial by Fire Religious Discussions 4 16-Oct-2003 14:57
Proof that God exists! akk The Lunatic Asylum 195 30-Aug-2003 15:20


All times are GMT+1. The time now is 01:20.

Powered by vBulletin (modified)
Copyright ©2000-2006, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.