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Posts: 16/58
(28-Jun-2004 at 07:34)
tongue On the topic of Evangilism and Finding your religion.

Howdy! My name is Belili! I have been reading several posts on this forum, and have seen very VERY negitive people.

Show some love and not hate for a change.

RELIGION IS ABOUT A LIFESTYLE THAT HELPS IMPROVE YOUR QUALITY OF LIFE AND BASIC MORALS. Nothing more. It is not a method of persecution or justification. It is designed to help guide the follower in life.

People are yelling at eachother and critizing eachother with little accomplishment. Every arguement made, and ideals expressed are taught by some former mentor. Don't deny it. Very few people think for themselves. Unless you were born on an island, without any outside influence, your ideas are not your own. Do not let your ancestors become your shepards.

So understand where people are coming from. Anger tword anyone based upon their beleifs is the height of ignorence. Progression of mankind is not possible without tollerance.

I term most people in this forum as "Sheep" because they shout anger that originated many, many years ago. Try to improve mankind, not repeat the same mistakes.

I am a sheep as well in some respects. I at least try to make an attempt to break from the herd.

Now. To the topic at hand. Some problems with religion today are....Evangilism....and Religion by acquaintance.

I beleive in NO outward evangilism. Writing a book does not count, because books rarely shout. One must read the book to learn, and besides advertisement, i have yet to involuntarily read.

My specific religion varies.

Sometimes I call myself a solitary wiccan. It is where my beleifs closely align. However ALOT of key wiccan concepts contradict my true beleifs. Sometimes because of this i just refer to myself as a "spiritualist".

------------ READ BELOW THIS LINE ONLY IF YOU TRULY WANT TO GO INTO MY SPIRITUALITY --------------------------------

This is the main points where my thought defers.

Diety - I beleive there is a supernatural (for lack of a better term) force out there. I see it every day in nature, and in life. I am not concrete enough, and sheeplike enough to personify this knowledge. I term it "GIA". No not the global independence army...GIA (like from captain planet heh). I beleive that what we know of life, is all part of this force gia. When conception occurs...GIA is given to this new "life". Once the life dies, it's spirit is returned to the gia. Our spirit does not die, it is just absorbed. Wiccan thought involved the Goddess and the God. With the incorporation of a "rebirth" lore.

Afterlife - Basic reincarnation, but I beleive we loose our individuality after death. Basicly like pouring a glass of water, then back into the pitcher, then back into the glass. It is different, but parts of the previous glass will show up in the new.

Most main points I agree with Wicca. I see magick and it's workings often. It is laughed at by almost everyone, but so was hypnosis years ago. There is much that we have no idea how it works, just that it does work.

---------------TOPIC OVER-----------------------------

Now I agree with the "organized religion is evil" concept. Yes it is. Religion should be as individualistic as possible. There are several guidelines (I.E. Christianity, Budhism, Taoism, Islamic, Wiccan, etc etc..). What people need to realize is the INTENT of religion. Religion was created by men (OOOH NO HE DI'INT?!) in a design to help better people's life and explain unexplainable things (not to control anyone....well...maybe some religions). All that all of these religions agree on is that "we are not alone". And some form of love. All religions formed out of the cavemen looking to the stars and wondering "OOH OOH, Up there what". ....well....something of that nature.

Religion should be adapted to the user based upon his commmon sense and heart. Just like the great Bruce Lee adapted different fighting styles to suit his style.

Problems - people with low mental capacity who see this will think, "OK I'LL CREATE A RELIGION FOR MYSELF WHERE MURDER IS GOOD!"...yea well how about no. This is a wiccan beleif, but i beleive it is essential in any religion that you shall find....HARM NONE. If you disagree...arguing that me saying "HARM NONE" is evangalism...well you are an idiot. If you do your best to not cause harm, that is the first step in any spirituality....

A religion that says otherwise is not a religion, it is an army.

Two other concepts are manditory in a spiritual quest. Betterment of your life - Betterment of others lives. The ballance of the two is up to you.

If you wish to avoid evangisists, and find your own religion, here are some tips.

1. CHALANGE EVERYTHING. Everything you beleive, question it. Faith is fine and dandy as long as it is actually faith instituted by yourself. Faith is more commonly used as an answer to any question about the religion the user cannot answer. I.E "Why do people give God credit for everything good, and no blame for anything bad"....."Uhh...umm..uhh Oh yea...Faith my son" I hate to rant on Christianity, but it is the most widely evangilistic religions in the modern world. Faith is a concept i hate. I really do. Faith allows others a reason to force beleif in a certan way by guilt and fear.

2. Do not automatically accept your parents religion. Being raised Irish Catholic (like myself) does not mean you are required to be such. If you change your mind, and your parents argue, they are not exercising reiligous tollerance, and being highly ignorant. Just think of 1 generation of evolution paying off...you are better than they are .

3. Do not conform based upon being "normal". Normality (did a presidant make up that word?) is an example of peer presue. Learn from truth ads. Just say no!

4. If you find a religion that you really like (like me and wicca)...QUESTION IT TOO! Question it's motives, it's origins, it's EVERYTHING.

5. I must profess yet again...these 3 concepts are required. Harm none - Betterment of oneself - Betterment of the world.

6. Read. If you have read this far in this extremly long post, reading is not a problem for you. Get out and read! Read about as much religion and religious history as you can handle.

7. Be individualistic. Do not tell your boyfriend everything about your religion. Most of the time, his interests will only be there because you beleive in it. Evangilism by marriage isn't wise. It can not only disrupt his true beleifs, but your relationship as well. Trust me on this lol.

8. RELIGIOUS TOLLERANCE. Your way is not the only "right" way.

9. Do not use religion to rebel. That motive will only lead you to trouble.

10. Evangilism should be limited to writen books, and questions by people who you view as TRULY INTERESTED. Not just "what is wicca" - "I will respond with my 5 page essay on wicca and shamanism...AHEM!...."

Anyway I am sorry for the lengthy post. These are most of my thoughts on basic religion. If you agree or disagree please post something.I will ignore anything preceded with a flame, so don't bother.

Blessed Be -
Belili
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(28-Jun-2004 at 08:17)


Well said pump. Well said. The first part of your post really touched me.

I don't agree with all of pump's views but the first part made a lot of sense and I've forgotten that lately.

paulthesane, RaveMaster, dravid, and all the others I've argued religion with...I know we don't agree on our beliefs but I think, like pump said, we all believe in love. My religion is right for me and yours is right for you and no one is to say who's right and what's wrong. I don't wanna argue religion anymore. It brings contention to us and I'm a firm believer in the relationship of the human race as brothers and sisters. Lets just love eachother guys.

(\ /)
( . .)
c('')('')
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(28-Jun-2004 at 16:00)


Re: On the topic of Evangilism and Finding your religion.

Quote:
(Originally posted by pump)

10. Evangilism should be limited to writen books, and questions by people who you view as TRULY INTERESTED. Not just "what is wicca" - "I will respond with my 5 page essay on wicca and shamanism...AHEM!...."

Blessed Be -
Belili
So according this, peoples shouldn't be preaching word of God? Is that what you mean? I doubt many peoples would TRULY BE INTRESTED of any religion. Heck not even I wasn't fond of any evangelists. That was before I became what I am today; religious Yahoo...

But evangelists are here and they preach word of God. They do that even peoples despise them and think they are weird. But they have got enlightment and joy of finding God and they wish to spread message of joy and happiness not necessarily a religion. They're fight is remarkable. I speak as christian for word of God.

I mean not to flame anyones religion nor say they're incorrect. I just say what I think. Peoples are free to listen what I have to say or ignore me. God gave man a freedom of choice. I respect anyones choices and I will not try to interfeare peoples choices. I am not evangelists, nope, not in a million years. I just tell what I think is right....

Generalization is rhetorics of simpletons.
"Sages learn from history... idiots learn from experience" -Fairy Tail manga

Last edited by Lord Menchalior, 28-Jun-2004 at 16:08.
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(28-Jun-2004 at 17:04)


Re: On the topic of Evangilism and Finding your religion.

Quote:

Howdy! My name is Belili! I have been reading several posts on this forum, and have seen very VERY negitive people.

Show some love and not hate for a change.

RELIGION IS ABOUT A LIFESTYLE THAT HELPS IMPROVE YOUR QUALITY OF LIFE AND BASIC MORALS. Nothing more. It is not a method of persecution or justification. It is designed to help guide the follower in life.

People are yelling at eachother and critizing eachother with little accomplishment. Every arguement made, and ideals expressed are taught by some former mentor. Don't deny it. Very few people think for themselves. Unless you were born on an island, without any outside influence, your ideas are not your own. Do not let your ancestors become your shepards.

So understand where people are coming from. Anger tword anyone based upon their beleifs is the height of ignorence. Progression of mankind is not possible without tollerance.

I term most people in this forum as "Sheep" because they shout anger that originated many, many years ago. Try to improve mankind, not repeat the same mistakes.
Greetings, welcome to Religious Discussions.

The 'sheep' are individuals, they are just stuck following some religious text that has been corrupted and hyped up in an effort to enslave them to certain rules.

However, this place is abundant with numerous people who have begun, and are questioning their beleifs. I have read many people's opinions on God, religion and spirituality. Every single one has provided me with either an entertaining debate, or an opptunity to compare and question my own beleifs.


Quote:
I am a sheep as well in some respects. I at least try to make an attempt to break from the herd.
To be an active and contributing part of society, we can only be sheep. People express their individuality in their own way, but for society to work there needs to be order, for order there needs to be rules, and for rules society needs a set of morals. We must abide by societies morals unless we wish to live outside society. Organised religions are merely an exploitation of this.

Quote:
This is the main points where my thought defers.

Diety - I beleive there is a supernatural (for lack of a better term) force out there. I see it every day in nature, and in life. I am not concrete enough, and sheeplike enough to personify this knowledge. I term it "GIA". No not the global independence army...GIA (like from captain planet heh). I beleive that what we know of life, is all part of this force gia. When conception occurs...GIA is given to this new "life". Once the life dies, it's spirit is returned to the gia. Our spirit does not die, it is just absorbed. Wiccan thought involved the Goddess and the God. With the incorporation of a "rebirth" lore.
I beleive you are discussing the Gaia Theory. I also follow your beleifs along this line, as I am sure people have read in previous posts of mine.

Quote:
Afterlife - Basic reincarnation, but I beleive we loose our individuality after death. Basicly like pouring a glass of water, then back into the pitcher, then back into the glass. It is different, but parts of the previous glass will show up in the new.
Again, I agree with you, and I consider this to be logical when you consider the laws of energy.

Quote:
Most main points I agree with Wicca. I see magick and it's workings often. It is laughed at by almost everyone, but so was hypnosis years ago. There is much that we have no idea how it works, just that it does work.
I dont know enough about Wicca and the workings of Magick to see it, however I agree that there is so much that we do not know or understand about our world that we should not be so close-minded about such things.

Quote:
Now I agree with the "organized religion is evil" concept. Yes it is. Religion should be as individualistic as possible. There are several guidelines (I.E. Christianity, Budhism, Taoism, Islamic, Wiccan, etc etc..). What people need to realize is the INTENT of religion. Religion was created by men (OOOH NO HE DI'INT?!) in a design to help better people's life and explain unexplainable things (not to control anyone....well...maybe some religions).
Many early religions, and some of the more "liberal" modern religions were merely scientific reasoning for events that happened. For events like the harvest season, it became a ritual to offer a sacrifice to the harvest god to make him give a good harvest.

This grew and grew, and eventually someone realised the potential of religion to unite and control a population of people.

Quote:
Religion should be adapted to the user based upon his commmon sense and heart. Just like the great Bruce Lee adapted different fighting styles to suit his style.
Quite agree, and I think people do adapt religion to a certain extent, just many fail to break the control of organised religions.

Quote:
Problems - people with low mental capacity who see this will think, "OK I'LL CREATE A RELIGION FOR MYSELF WHERE MURDER IS GOOD!"...yea well how about no.
This is not a problem. Societies morals would mean these people would be excluded from society. One thing society abhors is individual morals overcoming the groups morals. That is not to say a clever individual could not manipulate the groups morals.

Quote:
This is a wiccan beleif, but i beleive it is essential in any religion that you shall find....HARM NONE. If you disagree...arguing that me saying "HARM NONE" is evangalism...well you are an idiot. If you do your best to not cause harm, that is the first step in any spirituality....
I would disagree. If you follow the maxim "Harm none", then you are on your way to helping society evolve into a peaceful civilisation that is tolerant and open-minded.

Quote:
A religion that says otherwise is not a religion, it is an army.
Not an army, merely a way for religions to control society.

Quote:
Two other concepts are manditory in a spiritual quest. Betterment of your life - Betterment of others lives. The ballance of the two is up to you.
The balance is easy. Better your own life, but not at the expense of others.

To argue some points;

1. Depends how you interpret faith. Personally faith is the word to describe my beliefs despite the lack of proof.

2. You contradict yourself with tip 8 .

3. To a certain extent everyone conforms to normality. Normal is merely the sum of societies tolerance.

7. Be an individual, but be careful it is not at the expense of someone else.

9. Rebellious behaviour is typical in some people. The message should be not to use your religion merely as a means to rebel.

People, like snowflakes, are all slightly different, but we all follow the same patterns -Stewie
Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it.

Some people are like Slinkies- absolutely useless, but always fun to push down stairs!
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(28-Jun-2004 at 21:45)
Thank you for your reply mates!

Quote:
So according this, peoples shouldn't be preaching word of God? Is that what you mean? I doubt many peoples would TRULY BE INTRESTED of any religion. Heck not even I wasn't fond of any evangelists. That was before I became what I am today; religious Yahoo...
I beleive this form of evangelism is basicly saying that you beleive that YOUR religion is better than the religion the listener has. That is wrong.

Quote:
I beleive you are discussing the Gaia Theory. I also follow your beleifs along this line, as I am sure people have read in previous posts of mine.
Well Gaia is the most common spelling, I use Gia. No difference.

Quote:
I would disagree. If you follow the maxim "Harm none", then you are on your way to helping society evolve into a peaceful civilisation that is tolerant and open-minded.
How is that a disagreement? Isn't that what I said? Hehe.

Quote:
2. You contradict yourself with tip 8 .
How so? I am not telling you to cast aside your parents religion as being evil or wrong. I am just saying accept that it might not be right for you. The parents should exercise religious tollerance when/if you decide this. That is also the message of tip 8.

Azure rephrasing what I say is not an argument! Hehe anyway good feedback. Most of what you say otherwise I agree with.

MAPS, glad you feel this way. Now lets go to the middle east and pass out my flyers....



Or not.
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(29-Jun-2004 at 00:42)


The truth is Christ died for our sins. That is the truth. Its been told and peoples can take it or leave it. Men must hear the truth.

That is what preaching is: To give man a possibility to make choice. Its hardly a choice if you raisen into religion without possibility to choose one.

God loves you and I and each everyone of us. I say Gaia theory is incorrect, what if its half true, the spirit of the earth is part of the God's consciousness? God is not Old white man with long beard ( I guess he could be if he wanted ) but I belive he is higher consciousness, more of the "intelligent" energy and power than a physical from.

God is not man, nor a woman, he is both and none at same time. He is God, creator of all.

To me pounder the excistence of God is not relavent or what kind form he has. All I need to know is: He exists and loves us all, so much that he gave his only son to die for our sins!

You've been told that story for ages. You can choose to belive it or not to.

Maybe you will reconsider matter, after the brides have gone... World is in chaos and those believers who gain their belief will most likely to be killed horrific ways by torturing them. When time of sorrow has came...

Or something like that. Fact is, Christ will come again and brides will leave. Those who believe in christ with full heart will be leave in 1st. But even after that, its not too late...

Free will to people. I've made my choice. I just want to tell you my point of view. If its right, what can you loose? What if there is no such thing as re-incarnation? You only got one change to save your immortal soul? If I am incorrect and you're correct, who cares, you just re-incarnate again, like me...

Generalization is rhetorics of simpletons.
"Sages learn from history... idiots learn from experience" -Fairy Tail manga
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(29-Jun-2004 at 07:59)


Quote:
(Originally posted by Lord Menchalior)

God is not Old white man with long beard ( I guess he could be if he wanted ) but I belive he is higher consciousness, more of the "intelligent" energy and power than a physical from.


To me pounder the excistence of God is not relavent or what kind form he has. All I need to know is: He exists and loves us all, so much that he gave his only son to die for our sins!
..

Free will to people. I've made my choice. I just want to tell you my point of view. If its right, what can you loose? What if there is no such thing as re-incarnation? You only got one change to save your immortal soul? If I am incorrect and you're correct, who cares, you just re-incarnate again, like me...

Putting human emotions to something thats supposedly "intelligent" energy is a bit contradictory

[- P i G L e T -]
|I HATE HUMANS|
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(29-Jun-2004 at 08:58)
Now now piglet...don't denounce his faith....don't stoop as low as him

I'd like to thank you Mench for making an example of your kind. That may sound mean but, your post was worse.

What you are saying is that your religion is better than mine, I am wrong, you are right, and I will be totured forever because of it.

This thought is what gives power to Islamic extremists who fly planes into buildings.

This thought gives power to abortion clinic bombers.

This thought gave power to the crusades that murdered countless innocent people.

Can't you see the trouble the arrogance of your thought brings?

Now don't get confused. I am absolutly not calling you an abortion clinic bomber. I am not that insulting. But it is the same type of thought. Any form of religious intollerance feeds fuel to the fire that these extremists use in their hypocritic battles against mankind.

I have studied Christianity more than any other religion in my readings.

I have read the Christian Bible in a few of it's forms.

Beleive me, I know every argument you will make against my beleifs. I have heared it time and time again.

I don't consider myself firm in my beleifs, again I am a spiritualist. However, I will not listen to people like you any longer.

Your Bible, which is your only bridge between you and your diety tangibly, contradicts extreme evangilists. I will not go into extensive detail, but the basic concept is that Non-christians who are "good" can make it into heven, Christians who are "bad" will not. In this beleif, stated in the bible, converting me would be pointless. I don't claim to be, as Catholics would say, a saint. However I do beleive that as far as my way of life, I would qualify for this if it were true.

Now, it is obvious that your religion promotes evangilism, but in a different means.

This happens to be one form of evangilism I have little problems with. Evangilism to those with no spirituality at all, and no basic morals. I.E. - If you were to travel to a prison, with beasts of men taking advantage of the week to fit their gain, I would applaud you. If you were able to convert the most arrogant, and evil man there into a moraly sound Christian, I would personally thank you. That is what your religion promotes! That is what is good to mankind! That is what would progress the world greatly!

Try that for a change. If you are a heartful evangilist Christian, go out into that world of the spiritualy dead. Convert them! Do not convert the moraly sound as I. Your time would be better spint watching paint dry.

Please post again, I find pleasure in discussing topics such as this.

As far as your "What if your faith is wrong" idea. That comment could be made about any religion. That argument does what to the listener who beleives it?.....FEAR! Religion by fear is not healthy. I suggest avoiding such topics in the future.

Blessed Be -
Belili
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(29-Jun-2004 at 20:02)


Quote:
(Originally posted by P i G L e T)

Putting human emotions to something thats supposedly "intelligent" energy is a bit contradictory
a lot things is contradictory... Yet, they do exist. Scientiest say if humamns survive long enough, next evolution step is to form into beings of pure energy, with all emotions and reasoning and capbility of thinking, just humans without physical bodies...

Generalization is rhetorics of simpletons.
"Sages learn from history... idiots learn from experience" -Fairy Tail manga
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(29-Jun-2004 at 20:06)
I think someone has been watching too much star trek =)
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(29-Jun-2004 at 20:11)


I think I've watched way too much Babylon 5. Read too much prophets and bible...

Generalization is rhetorics of simpletons.
"Sages learn from history... idiots learn from experience" -Fairy Tail manga
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(05-Jul-2004 at 06:09)
The problem is that it is all very good to say that everyone can have there own religion/do there own thing - but the fact remains that if my religion says that it is the right one and hence others are wrong, how can they both be right?

And I am interested in your point about 'morally sound' people having no need of conversion. Evangelism should only be used on 'savages'? Your talk about Christianity being arrogant, yet you are saying yourself that cos you believe you have morals that you are better then someone else who doesn't have the same set of morals you do.

To turn it round. I believe that if you aren't Christian then you aren't morally sound. Therefore by your reasoning you shouldn't have any problem with me evangelising anyone.
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Something amusing just occoured to me - hope you like it..

It is true that the Bible encourages christians (of all flavours) to tell infidels of the miracle of Christ. BUT - could it be that God made infidels non-belivers for a specfic cause & that they will fail God's test of them if they convert to christianity ? It would cerainly explain why adult non-christians are so hard to convert, since converting would be subverting Gods purpose for them & that is why they resist so strongly.

This is what every PvP argument boils down to:
Dear Devs:
Rock is overpowered, please nerf. Paper is fine.
Yours, Scissors
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(05-Jul-2004 at 11:45)


Maybe it is without darkness, there are no light, without dispair, there are no hope, without infidels, there are no belivers... etc..

Yet, peoples are converted everyday. Nothing is more harder than convert adult jewish person to belive Christ... Yet number of Messianic Jewish is growing steadily.

And peoples like to think they're control of their own life, that no thing, like God could say what they do or control... God doesn't do that, he has given man free will...

Peoples do not need to hear word of God to be converted, peoples can see one movie to converted. Gibson's Passion of Christ has converted several thousands peoples to belive in Christ. I don't know what that means, yet, since I haven't sawn the film yet ( this is small town I live in, no much idea to go 65 miles to see a film )

Generalization is rhetorics of simpletons.
"Sages learn from history... idiots learn from experience" -Fairy Tail manga
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(28-Jul-2004 at 02:20)


I'm going to come with some old school arguments that I'm sure you've heard before.

There was a preacher on the street corner evangelizing. A hell's angel rolled up on his bike and asked the preacher "Whats the quickest way to Hell" the preacher said "young man hell could be right around the corner". With those words the Hell's angel roared off, made a sharp turn at the next corner, slammed into a car, and died.

Quote:
I beleive this form of evangelism is basicly saying that you beleive that YOUR religion is better than the religion the listener has. That is wrong.
if two mathmeticians were in a room and one said his answer to the equation was more right than the others then the other man would not be offended. There is only one right answer so if the two people come up with different answers then one has to be wrong.

Set religion aside for a moment

Aside from my religion as a religion take a look at the lifestyle. Its really the best way to live and I want everyone to have a part of that. I'm a 21 year old virgin, you may think I'm missing out on alot of things but I have no worries about STD's and sexual relationships and children. Everywhere I go I have family. I'm going to germany to visit my fiance in less than a week and I'm going to stop by and visit chruches that I know of there. I have family all around the world. Even if it wasn't a religion I would still want you to be a part of my family then maybe one day I could stop by your country and visit you. I've found a lifestyle I enjoy and no matter what happens to me I don't have fear because I know I have made an impact on people's lives. I've been in clubs, teams, public schools, and other group activities but the one place where there is constantly love and acceptance is in the church. People say churches are judgemental and its hard to find acceptance and maybe you've experienced that in some churches. Churches want to imitate christ in thier rules and judgements but we are also human. Now I'm not going to assume that your life is horrible or whatever but if the christian life isn't the way to live then why do people always ask me questions like. "Do you ever get angry?" or "how can you always stay so positive?".

Back onto religion

Corinthians chapter 13 and the last verse said

There is faith hope and love and the greatest of these is love.

I have faith and hope and I am overflowing with love even as I politely show people not neccesarily that thier religion is wrong but how right mine is. What more can I ask for than everything I've been given.

Do you know the story of Job? A brief overview of his life. The richest man around because God had given him alot. Satan told God that he was only serving Him because God had given him so much so God took it all away and allowed satan to make Job miserable however Job stuck by God and was rewarded with more than ever in the end.

I like to think that I would be like Job so that even if I was more miserable than ever before I could still have the love, faith and hope. How many people could go through what Job did and still have hope?

pump you sound like a very interesting person and if I never talk to you again then have a great life!!
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(28-Jul-2004 at 15:28)


A few Christians/religious people have already responded in this thread, but I'm going to try to explain my belief on why I feel it's necessary to 'evangelize'.

Menchalior already talked a little using the 'if I'm right' argument, but I'd like to elaborate. I believe that all people have sin and are separated from God. Death is what is owed to 'pay the debt' of sin. Christ paid our debt for us. All you have to do is say 'OK' and accept that gift.



Let's pretend for one minute that I am right, and then pretend that I lived my entire life doing what you've suggested: keepping what I believe to myself. At the end of time or judgement or whatever we want to call it, my brother comes up to me just before being sent to hell and says "WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL ME!?!?"

THAT is the only reason I evangelize. Because I very obviously do believe that I'm right, and if I'm right than you, my brother, my best friend, my grandpa, and many others that I care about are all on your way to hell. And, my friends, the thought of all of those people that I love so much spending eternity in a place without God is what motivates me to share my belief with them.

I'd rather everyone (including you) hate me for telling you about Christ then hate me for NOT telling you.

Because, **IF** I'm right, and **if** my way really is the only way, then isn't it my responsibility to do absolutely everything in my power to at least give you the best opportunity possibile to accept that gift?

BTW, I also find that the church is failing to do what Christ actually wanted it to do. Men have corrupted religion. On the contrary, however, I believe that the Bible is the inspired, living, inerrant, incorruptable Word of God. I believe that He has protected it from man's corrupting ways. But, that's a whole other discussion for an other day.

"So you see, it isn't enough just to have faith. Faith that doesn't show itself by good deeds is no faith at all it is dead and useless. Now someone may argue, "Some people have faith; others have good deeds." I say, "...I will show you my faith through my good deeds." James 2;17 & 18

Last edited by Astalder, 28-Jul-2004 at 15:35.
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(30-Jul-2004 at 10:50)


Quote:
(Originally posted by Astalder)
Let's pretend for one minute that I am right, and then pretend that I lived my entire life doing what you've suggested: keepping what I believe to myself. At the end of time or judgement or whatever we want to call it, my brother comes up to me just before being sent to hell and says "WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL ME!?!?"
And God will respond - "Did ye not read the scriptures ?"

Proverbs 16 : 4
"The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil."

John 12 : 40
"He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them."

2 Thessalonians 2 : 11 - 12
"God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned."

This is what every PvP argument boils down to:
Dear Devs:
Rock is overpowered, please nerf. Paper is fine.
Yours, Scissors
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(31-Jul-2004 at 12:13)


Peoples are not getting high positions in heaven by converting peoples but by loving peoples. Peoples that have not converted a single people stand higher than Deciples? Why: BEcause they loved other peoples more than diceples did. People who had given 100 parts of Love and gave 88 parts love back is not as good person than person who was given 5 parts of live and who gave 5 parts of love.

One Prophet in his book: Rick Joyner, was "visiting" in heavens. He talked with St. Peter there and he saw a man, sitting higher place than St. Peter. He recognized this man to be a street bum that he had seen earlier. Now Joyner asks of this from St. Peter and Peter answered with that Parts of Love thing. God had gave 100 parts of Love during his life and He manage to gave away 88 parts, that leaves 12 parts of Love ungiven. While this bum, had got only 5 parts of Love but he gave all 5 parts away. And God gave him 3 more parts Love witch this Bum gave away.

This is the same bum, than Mr. Joyner ( who is evangelist in U.S.A ) had seen earlier on street and there he was struckt by the thought what he thought when he saw that bum: That guy is nver going to be a saved.

Now that was God's way to make evangelist humble. But it also points that God doesn't judge peoples like we do. Peoples are judged by totally different measures by God than we do.

If you care more: FInd Rick Joyner's book: Deception, Fight, WIN ( or similar ) Its very intresting one...

Generalization is rhetorics of simpletons.
"Sages learn from history... idiots learn from experience" -Fairy Tail manga
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