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God is not fully understandable, but he is definately understandable. For example, God is slow to anger. There. We understand that.
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(User is Banned)
Posts: 2271/2492 (23-Sep-2004 at 15:02) ![]() |
Re: Why ask the monothesists about God ?
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(Originally posted by Grashnak)
The monotheists all believe that God is omnipotent, omnicient & omnipresent. They all claim that they cannot hope to understand God - so why do forumers (including myself here) ask the thesists about God - how can they hope to answer with any authority on the subject of God itself ? They can comment on the written works inspired by God - but not God the ermm... for lack of a better word man. We also gather together for sharing our revelations and testimonies occassionally(although I don't, I trust more in the Lord than human beings). This is check each other for mistakes. Of course, like I said, this method is rather flawed as we are checking with flawed human beings, not God Himself. Religion is the mental disease of the masses.
"Once again, religion is like sniffing gasoline. Both cause permanant brain damage." -- Obsidian |
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(Originally posted by Lord Drizzt)
God is not fully understandable, but he is definately understandable. For example, God is slow to anger. There. We understand that.
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(Originally posted by dothackRAVE) <SNIP>
Dear Devs: Rock is overpowered, please nerf. Paper is fine. Yours, Scissors |
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(User is Banned)
Posts: 2273/2492 (23-Sep-2004 at 15:20) ![]() |
Quote:
(Originally posted by Grashnak)
God may reveal to you via prayer what he wants - but then he may misguide you. I seem to remember a story (think it was Abraham) where he was told by God to kill his son... this was a test & God did not want him to actually do it. I don't think the faithful can even claim an answer from a prayer is 100% 'the truth'. So, Abraham managed to pass the test of faith, and he, along with his son, was granted a spot in Heaven. So, whatever it was Abraham did, it was God's intention. Religion is the mental disease of the masses.
"Once again, religion is like sniffing gasoline. Both cause permanant brain damage." -- Obsidian |
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Posts: 475/1847
(23-Sep-2004 at 15:57) ![]() |
ravemaster
with all due respect your prayers etc getting word from god himself is not a valid argument - simply because its just things your mind experiances - whether true or not is not the debate - cause others also get this from toher gods etc and athiasts like myself have no god and dont get it - but because other gods also give the same thing to other people it makes the argument non valid and just an impulse on the mind same as athiasts saying - i dont get anything so there cant be a god - its fundementally flawed on your reality not others. i know why i ask thiests - its to explore my own world, to advance my knowledge past what it is, to take in others points of view - i attempt to understand others - but my reality is only guided by my mind - much like what im telling rave which means ill never trully understand - in fact none of us will ever understand if we are right untill we are dead, even then not maybe cause if you just die you will never know, but cease to exist Saint Sinner for President 2012 You're all fucking stupid You're mafia, dont deny it. Absalom |
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(User is Banned)
Posts: 2276/2492 (23-Sep-2004 at 16:53) ![]() |
Quote:
(Originally posted by Skraz)
ravemaster with all due respect your prayers etc getting word from god himself is not a valid argument - simply because its just things your mind experiances - whether true or not is not the debate - cause others also get this from toher gods etc and athiasts like myself have no god and dont get it - but because other gods also give the same thing to other people it makes the argument non valid and just an impulse on the mind
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same as athiasts saying - i dont get anything so there cant be a god - its fundementally flawed on your reality not others.
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i know why i ask thiests - its to explore my own world, to advance my knowledge past what it is, to take in others points of view - i attempt to understand others - but my reality is only guided by my mind - much like what im telling rave which means ill never trully understand - in fact none of us will ever understand if we are right untill we are dead, even then not maybe cause if you just die you will never know, but cease to exist
Religion is the mental disease of the masses.
"Once again, religion is like sniffing gasoline. Both cause permanant brain damage." -- Obsidian |
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Posts: 476/1847
(23-Sep-2004 at 17:02) ![]() |
rave :
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Do we have to be so narrowminded as to regard all other religions as worshipping different Gods? For all you know, they could be intertwined. How else can you get such a large percentage of ancient human beings coming up with their own Gods?
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This is based on faith. No faith = no message. I strongly believe that there is a God, and therefore, I hear Him.
those we call insane and lock up - they hear and listen to things that tell them to do stuff - what makes yours more valid?
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Grashnak's point was, why ask a flawed human being about something as incomprehensible as God?
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so why do forumers (including myself here) ask the thesists about God
Saint Sinner for President 2012 You're all fucking stupid You're mafia, dont deny it. Absalom |
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Posts: 39/81
(23-Sep-2004 at 17:32) ![]() |
Quote:
(Originally posted by Lord Drizzt)
God is not fully understandable, but he is definately understandable. For example, God is slow to anger. There. We understand that. |
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God is good
Devil is bad Faith is good Sin is Bad God fights against the sin. Remember Sodoma and Gomorra? Maybe the great flood? Word perfect doesn't mean somebody couldn't get angry. Even he is perfect. How you calim perfect thing cannot get angry? Do you know anyone perfect? God hates sins, but he loves us. That is why christ died for our sins. Who ever takes his blood and washes him/herself in it, will wash his sins away. When God looks man, he sees sin. But when God looks someone who has washed in Christs blood, he will see someone who has repented and who has faith. One who is then saved. There is fight between good and evil, that is raging even now. Wars of Heavens and hell are reflected to this world. God has been patient, but I think God's patience is wearing thin now. ( Look the hurricanes, earthquakes, drought and floods that occur now more than ever before ) Generalization is rhetorics of simpletons. "Sages learn from history... idiots learn from experience" -Fairy Tail manga |
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(Originally posted by dothackRAVE)
So, Abraham managed to pass the test of faith, and he, along with his son, was granted a spot in Heaven. So, whatever it was Abraham did, it was God's intention.
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(Originally posted by dothackRAVE)
<SNIP> Dear Devs: Rock is overpowered, please nerf. Paper is fine. Yours, Scissors |
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(Originally posted by Lord Menchalior)
God fights against the sin.
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Maybe the great flood?
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How you calim perfect thing cannot get angry? Do you know anyone perfect?
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When God looks man, he sees sin. But when God looks someone who has washed in Christs blood, he will see someone who has repented and who has faith. One who is then saved.
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There is fight between good and evil, that is raging even now. Wars of Heavens and hell are reflected to this world.
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God has been patient, but I think God's patience is wearing thin now. ( Look the hurricanes, earthquakes, drought and floods that occur now more than ever before )
![]() My Skype is kapteindynetrekk |
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Posts: 41/81
(23-Sep-2004 at 20:04) ![]() |
Quote:
(Originally posted by Lord Menchalior)
God is good Devil is bad Faith is good Sin is Bad God fights against the sin. Remember Sodoma and Gomorra? Maybe the great flood? Word perfect doesn't mean somebody couldn't get angry. Even he is perfect. How you calim perfect thing cannot get angry? Do you know anyone perfect? God hates sins, but he loves us. That is why christ died for our sins. Who ever takes his blood and washes him/herself in it, will wash his sins away. When God looks man, he sees sin. But when God looks someone who has washed in Christs blood, he will see someone who has repented and who has faith. One who is then saved. There is fight between good and evil, that is raging even now. Wars of Heavens and hell are reflected to this world. God has been patient, but I think God's patience is wearing thin now. ( Look the hurricanes, earthquakes, drought and floods that occur now more than ever before ) and the reference to the weather, majority of the world is unaffected by it. To say that god would discriminate and punish a few people for everyones actions would mean that god isn't perfect. |
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Posts: 1/262
(23-Sep-2004 at 21:15) |
It's funny how people decide what is perfection and what is God. And I say define, not refer to or exemplify. When you say what God can or cannot do, you are assuming a ceertain definition of God, that is, asserting His limits. But we say that God is (or would be, for an atheist) absolute: isn't this a definition for God? Well, if it is, then we would have a contradiction here, defining - and so puting limits - to the absolute, so He wouldn't be absolute. But what about if that phrase wasn't a definition of God but of our concept of absolute (or our definition of the word "absolute")?
For atheists, it seems easier to deny the existence of God pointing out inconsistencies within the faith of those who believe Him. But the fact that my knowledge is limited and fragmentary doesn't mean that that knowledge is not true. It doesn't even implies that God is playing trics on me. It is actually part of my freedom, a freedom so huge that only God could think of: the freedom to believe His own existence or not! If you don't see the point, let me explain a little more: if, by dedution alone, I could reach the conclusion of His existence, that wouldn't be my choice, just a coherent conclusion forced on me by my rational thinking; freedom of mind implies the responsability of the choice, otherwise computers wuould be free (freedom is obviously diferent from aleatory or flawed behaviour); so, in this World, human limited knowledge, is not a handicap but an oportunity to exercise our freedom. Something similar could be said about other limitations: suffering is a chance for love; despair for solidarity; ignorance for learning; etc. the same way that our lack of a natural flying capability was a chance (motivation) to develop planes. But let me, if you don't mind, ask you, atheists, a very simple question (the ansewr may not be so simple...): can you prove the non-existence of God? If you point out that the statement "God exists" is a dogma - an axiom, or a postulate, if you want - have you noticed that the statements "god doesn't exists" is also axiomatic? The same question goes to the agnostics who say "god's existence is not possibly to be known". (I ask you people to be lenient with my writting, but I'm not a native english speaker) |
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Posts: 273/651
(23-Sep-2004 at 21:54) ![]() |
Quote:
(Originally posted by Viriatus)
It's funny how people decide what is perfection and what is God. And I say define, not refer to or exemplify. When you say what God can or cannot do, you are assuming a ceertain definition of God, that is, asserting His limits. But we say that God is (or would be, for an atheist) absolute: isn't this a definition for God? Well, if it is, then we would have a contradiction here, defining - and so puting limits - to the absolute, so He wouldn't be absolute. But what about if that phrase wasn't a definition of God but of our concept of absolute (or our definition of the word "absolute")? For atheists, it seems easier to deny the existence of God pointing out inconsistencies within the faith of those who believe Him. But the fact that my knowledge is limited and fragmentary doesn't mean that that knowledge is not true. It doesn't even implies that God is playing trics on me. It is actually part of my freedom, a freedom so huge that only God could think of: the freedom to believe His own existence or not! If you don't see the point, let me explain a little more: if, by dedution alone, I could reach the conclusion of His existence, that wouldn't be my choice, just a coherent conclusion forced on me by my rational thinking; freedom of mind implies the responsability of the choice, otherwise computers wuould be free (freedom is obviously diferent from aleatory or flawed behaviour); so, in this World, human limited knowledge, is not a handicap but an oportunity to exercise our freedom. Something similar could be said about other limitations: suffering is a chance for love; despair for solidarity; ignorance for learning; etc. the same way that our lack of a natural flying capability was a chance (motivation) to develop planes. But let me, if you don't mind, ask you, atheists, a very simple question (the ansewr may not be so simple...): can you prove the non-existence of God? If you point out that the statement "God exists" is a dogma - an axiom, or a postulate, if you want - have you noticed that the statements "god doesn't exists" is also axiomatic? The same question goes to the agnostics who say "god's existence is not possibly to be known". (I ask you people to be lenient with my writting, but I'm not a native english speaker) As an atheist, I don't feel a need to prove that God doesn't exist. Since I don't have faith, for me the concept of God falls into the same category as that of ghosts, UFO landings, telepathy, and other concepts that connot be proven according to scientific reasoning. These concepts all share at least one thing in common: their adherants must have faith in them. Without faith, these concepts cannot exist, because they simply don't have any other footing in this world. Theists may counter that God exists whether we believe in Him or not, but that again is simply an article of faith. That belief cannot be supported by any reproducable experiments or observations. And let me say that when I compare the concept of God to UFO's, telepathy, etc. I am not trying to be flippant or disrepectful to anyone's faith. Note that I capitalize "God" and "Him", because I respect that others have different viewpoints than I do, and it won't kill me to show a little respect now and then. I realize that it is a bit of a cliche', but to me there are two kinds of people in this world: those with faith, and those without it. Faith opens up many paths of reasoning (yes, "reason" can go hand in hand with faith)that would not be logical to those without faith, while those without faith have similar challenges when trying to find their way in the world. You may note that in my entire time here, I've never tried to convince someone of faith that they are wrong. Not only is this disrespectful and intolerant, but when debating with someone who has faith, it is ultimately useless. Faith is not faith if it has to have a scientific basis. True faith absolutely must exist with or without a basis for proof. Anything less is simply someone trying to hedge their bets, and I doubt that God would appreciate that very much. On the other hand, when someone like yourself, in what I think is an honest attempt at understanding, asks me how I arrive at my views, I am more than glad to share them. Again, not to change your mind, but simply in the hope that you may understand mine. Last edited by Grotus, 23-Sep-2004 at 21:56. Edit reason: grammar |
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Posts: 3/262
(23-Sep-2004 at 22:19) |
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As an atheist, I don't feel a need to prove that God doesn't exist. Since I don't have faith, for me the concept of God falls into the same category as that of ghosts, UFO landings, telepathy, and other concepts that connot be proven according to scientific reasoning. These concepts all share at least one thing in common: their adherants must have faith in them. Without faith, these concepts cannot exist, because they simply don't have any other footing in this world. Theists may counter that God exists whether we believe in Him or not, but that again is simply an article of faith. That belief cannot be supported by any reproducable experiments or observations.
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Posts: 71/183
(24-Sep-2004 at 00:41) ![]() |
Thank you Viriatus and Grotus, for bringing a touch of civility to a debate that can sometimes get quite uncivilized.
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A perfect being needs to have perfect self control and calm. If a perfect being becomes angry, then the perfect being does not have perfect self control. It's as easy as that.
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Once again your giving god human traits. God is not human. God is without fault. God can't not be angry, that is trait of humans. Anger is a human weakness. Plus God is all knowing and all powerful. Even if he could be angry, why would he? He already knows everything that will happen, but yet will he will be angry about it? How can god hate anything? he created it all. He had full knowledge of what he was creating. He knew what would become of his creations. If he hated it, he would have never created it because that would be flawed.
And Nimon, why are you being antagonistic towards Lord Menchalior? He's just presenting his views, but because they disagree with yours you shoot them down. |
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And Nimon, why are you being antagonistic towards Lord Menchalior? He's just presenting his views, but because they disagree with yours you shoot them down.
Anger is a weakness??? WTF??? How is it?
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You mean that supersticious event that science has all but disproved?
God has not won the battle because He wants us. He wants us to choose Him. The final battle won't begin until the world ends. |
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Posts: 43/81
(24-Sep-2004 at 02:26) ![]() |
Anger not a weakness? Anger clouds judgement causes irrational behavior. Have you ever studied any martial arts? They are all based on not getting angry and losing control, but actually maintianing your cool and self-control.
And even if he somehow does have human emotions, why would he even bother with them? Why would god even bother getting angry? He is all knowing and all powerful. And even the bible defined god as perfect, not an absolute. Perfection is a very easy concept to understand. perfect = without flaw(s). Therefore in order to be perfect, he is limited to the boundries of perfection. The point is that God is without a flaw. |
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(User is Banned)
Posts: 2278/2492 (24-Sep-2004 at 02:39) ![]() |
Quote:
(Originally posted by Skraz)
rave : do you have to be so narrowminded to think you are correct - they could well be intertwined just like they could well not be - jut cause you think one way does not make it correct
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do you always listen to voices in your head?
those we call insane and lock up - they hear and listen to things that tell them to do stuff - what makes yours more valid?
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i asnwered that question - i cant help it if you have trouble reading and only read what you want ot hear
Religion is the mental disease of the masses.
"Once again, religion is like sniffing gasoline. Both cause permanant brain damage." -- Obsidian |
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