Utopia Temple
Main Forum Page Register an Account for Free! Calendar Frequently Asked Questions about this Board View New Posts Advanced Search Login
  Utopia Temple Forums > General Discussions > Respectable General Discussions > Religious Discussions

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Post New Thread Reply
Author Thread
Posts: 5001/5486
Donated $11.20
(05-May-2008 at 17:28)


Re: Professor: Atheists are more intelligent than believers

please delete

Man is the only animal that blushes, or needs to.-- Mark Twain

Last edited by Michael1, 05-May-2008 at 17:37.
Edit reason: strange double post ???
#21  
View Public Profile Visit Michael1's homepage Find more posts by Michael1 Add Michael1 to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 5002/5486
Donated $11.20
(05-May-2008 at 17:35)


Re: Professor: Atheists are more intelligent than believers

Originally Posted by Bernel: View Post
So? It would turn out you were wrong. I'm sure finding you were wrong has happened to you too.
Nope, never
Quote:
So, how would you feel if said creator had decided that only those who had true faith go to heaven? Agnostics, atheists and those with the wrong faith all go to hell.
I'd be a little pissed, and you?
Quote:
Wouldn't that make you feel just as stupid as the atheist?
Didn't you just say they shouldn't feel stupid? I wouldn't feel stupid because at least I had prepared myself for the possibility of still existing. Like I said, I'd just be pissed at God.
Quote:
Or even more annoying, what if there is a God who has deliberately hidden his existence, and who dislikes everyone who believed he exists so that it's the believers and agnostics who go to hell while the Atheists go to heaven?
No, us agnostics are safe. Why would a God who dislikes people who believed he exists punish people who really just don't give a fuck?

Quote:
Unless you have any any idea of what God is like, being agnostic is totally pointless.
Not really. Some people are certain there is a creator, some people are certain there isn't. We're simply not sure and are wise enough to know that until we're dead we won't really know, or we won't know that we don't know.

Quote:
Since you discount all established religions, what reason do you have to even suspect there might be a God giving you an afterlife?
I discount ceremonial aspects of organized religions. That has nothing to do with whether I'm open to the possibility of the existance of a creator.

Originally Posted by DHoffryn:
Not really. Not from what i've seen. Both the arrogant christians or _insert other religions_ and the arogant atheists seem to like bonding with others of their kind over how stupid non believers/beliefers are and how much better they are then the rest because they believe/don't believe
I'll take your word for it. I try to avoid arrogant people who are obsessed with claiming their superiority, be it spiritual or intellectual. To me they're all the same.

I do find it odd that no atheists chimed in on this thread to discount the intellectual superiority of atheists. That sort of proves my contention that atheists lack humilty. I'm not sure it's the only source of the general unhappiness of atheists but it certainly is a contributing factor to their social shortcomings.

Man is the only animal that blushes, or needs to.-- Mark Twain
#22  
View Public Profile Visit Michael1's homepage Find more posts by Michael1 Add Michael1 to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 408/564
(05-May-2008 at 23:52)
Quote:
I do find it odd that no atheists chimed in on this thread to discount the intellectual superiority of atheists. That sort of proves my contention that atheists lack humilty. I'm not sure it's the only source of the general unhappiness of atheists but it certainly is a contributing factor to their social shortcomings.
I find it odd that you find this odd..... I think the reasons for that are pretty obvious.

For my two cents - who the hell cares? The average intelligence of two groups does not necessarily have any bearing on which has the right answer to a particular problem.

Maybe we should look at the relative intelligence of people who think that this means anything versus those who don't?
#23  
View Public Profile Find more posts by dantendo Add dantendo to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
(Posted as matinog)
Posts: 742/922
(06-May-2008 at 03:01)


I dont think it is fair to view intelligence as atheist and religious people. If you can show me that both groups that were tested had the same educational background and had many other characteristics equal, im pretty sure the resulting difference would be way smaller.
#24  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Mandraque Add Mandraque to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 1637
(Post has been warned)
(06-May-2008 at 04:53)
Besides, intelligence forms out of insufficient strength or instinctal awareness. If you are bitter enough to pursue any hard-lined intellectual pursuit, in denial or assertion, you ought to be asking yourself what you are really miserable about. Push or pull in any reactionary direction, you're still a fustrated little sodomite, trying to make up for a lack of natural leader-antagonism resolute which you so envy.

All hail enlightened ideological indifference.
#25  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Gotterdammerung Add Gotterdammerung to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 957/1035
(06-May-2008 at 05:31)
Hmm the same professor apparently said that black people are less intellegent than white, the only conclusion you can actually draw from the test is that atheists scored better in the thing the guy tested than believers. That its intellegence he tested is his definition and not my.

And as I said its one aspect of intellegens but certainly not the only. IQ is easiest to measure and thus has been most widespread used.

Just to point it out the professor isnt wrong black people that live in Africa are less intellegent(have lower IQ that is) than people in rich countries - on average. Rich countries have an average IQ of 90+ while Africa below Safari has below 80.Link, looking at the classification, that would mean the average person in Africa is borderline mentally retarded. Of course this isnt the case just showing on the differences in education, culture and stability in African countries and rich countries.

Last edited by Pollock, 06-May-2008 at 05:38.
#26  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Pollock Add Pollock to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 7546/8194
(06-May-2008 at 06:11)
Re: Professor: Atheists are more intelligent than believers

Originally Posted by Michael1: View Post
Didn't you just say they shouldn't feel stupid?
Different cases. In one I didn't get sent to hell, in the other I did.
Quote:
I wouldn't feel stupid because at least I had prepared myself for the possibility of still existing.
How do you prepare yourself for that? A devout Christian can prepare through prayer and following all the rules in the Bible, but as an agnostic I don't see there is anything you can do.
Quote:
No, us agnostics are safe. Why would a God who dislikes people who believed he exists punish people who really just don't give a fuck?
Because he figures that people who don't give a fuck don't deserve a second chance? If you don't claim to know anything about a God you can't really rule out any strange behavior on his part.
Quote:
Not really. Some people are certain there is a creator, some people are certain there isn't.
An atheist simply means someone who doesn't believe in God. Some atheists are certain there is no God, but most just don't see any reason to believe there is one. For that matter there may be a creator who doesn't offer anyone an afterlife, who made the universe but has no special interest in us here on Earth.
Quote:
I do find it odd that no atheists chimed in on this thread to discount the intellectual superiority of atheists. That sort of proves my contention that atheists lack humilty.
Remember your earlier thread where you claimed atheists had no humor? As so often you made accusations against others that are a perfect description of yourself.
#27  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Bernel Add Bernel to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 493
(06-May-2008 at 14:46)


Re: Professor: Atheists are more intelligent than believers

Originally Posted by Bernel: View Post
So? It would turn out you were wrong. I'm sure finding you were wrong has happened to you too. Assuming said creator isn't the type who throw unbelievers in hell I assume most atheists would be rather happy to still exist.

So, how would you feel if said creator had decided that only those who had true faith go to heaven? Agnostics, atheists and those with the wrong faith all go to hell. Wouldn't that make you feel just as stupid as the atheist? Or even more annoying, what if there is a God who has deliberately hidden his existence, and who dislikes everyone who believed he exists so that it's the believers and agnostics who go to hell while the Atheists go to heaven? Unless you have any any idea of what God is like, being agnostic is totally pointless.

Since you discount all established religions, what reason do you have to even suspect there might be a God giving you an afterlife?
While you're busy attacking theism, consider this situation.

Mother Teresa: Spent her life devoted to the poor. Possibly one of the most selfless people in modern history. Died at the age of 87.

Josef Stalin: Tyrant of the Soviet Union. Estimated to have killed 20 million of his own countrymen. Died at the age of 75.

Yet, according to agnostics/atheists such as yourself, they end up in the same place (the perpetual blackness of death), despite the disparity in the morality of their lives.

Do you want to explain this? For Christians, Muslims, Jews, it is not hard to explain. Josef Stalin will burn in hell for his pernicious deeds.

See the problem with your scenario?

Never give in, never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. - Sir Winston Churchill, Speech, 1941, Harrow School
#28  
View Public Profile Visit hussein's homepage Find more posts by hussein Add hussein to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 410/564
(06-May-2008 at 15:13)
Re: Professor: Atheists are more intelligent than believers

Originally Posted by hussein: View Post
While you're busy attacking theism, consider this situation.

Mother Teresa: Spent her life devoted to the poor. Possibly one of the most selfless people in modern history. Died at the age of 87.

Josef Stalin: Tyrant of the Soviet Union. Estimated to have killed 20 million of his own countrymen. Died at the age of 75.

Yet, according to agnostics/atheists such as yourself, they end up in the same place (the perpetual blackness of death), despite the disparity in the morality of their lives.

Do you want to explain this? For Christians, Muslims, Jews, it is not hard to explain. Josef Stalin will burn in hell for his pernicious deeds.

See the problem with your scenario?
The only problem is that you can't accept that there might not be a balance to the universe. Bad deeds commited whilst living might just go unpunished - our reward for living well might, after all, really be nothing.

Why is that so hard for you to comprehend?
#29  
View Public Profile Find more posts by dantendo Add dantendo to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 7548/8194
(06-May-2008 at 16:12)
Re: Professor: Atheists are more intelligent than believers

Originally Posted by hussein: View Post
Yet, according to agnostics/atheists such as yourself, they end up in the same place (the perpetual blackness of death), despite the disparity in the morality of their lives.

Do you want to explain this?
You might wish that there is some justice after death, punishing the wicked and rewarding the righteous, but just because you want it to be so doesn't make it so. The universe isn't fair, that's all I can say. While religion may comfort poor people who believe they will get compensation after death, it can also have the unfortunate effect of making them accept injustice rather than fight it. Religious leaders often collaborate with the rulers telling the peasants to shut up, because God has decided that they should be poor while the rich and powerful deserve to be rich and powerful.

Quote:
For Christians, Muslims, Jews, it is not hard to explain. Josef Stalin will burn in hell for his pernicious deeds.
What if Stalin repented, accepted Jesus and asked for forgiveness just before he died? Then he goes to heaven according to Christian doctrine. Jews generally don't believe in hell.
Quote:
See the problem with your scenario?
Not really.
#30  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Bernel Add Bernel to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 5005/5486
Donated $11.20
(06-May-2008 at 18:14)


Re: Professor: Atheists are more intelligent than believers

Originally Posted by Bernel: View Post
How do you prepare yourself for that? A devout Christian can prepare through prayer and following all the rules in the Bible, but as an agnostic I don't see there is anything you can do.
Why not? I'm better prepared simply because I'm open to the possibility, whereas an atheist presumably will have never given the afterlife a second thought.

Quote:
An atheist simply means someone who doesn't believe in God. Some atheists are certain there is no God, but most just don't see any reason to believe there is one. For that matter there may be a creator who doesn't offer anyone an afterlife, who made the universe but has no special interest in us here on Earth.
I don't see any particular reason to believe in a God or to not believe in a God, but I don't go around attempting to associate my beliefs with my inherent intellectual superiority.

Quote:
Remember your earlier thread where you claimed atheists had no humor?
I find plenty of atheists to be funny as hell. I believe I stated that atheists generally weren't as happy as others.

Quote:
As so often you made accusations against others that are a perfect description of yourself.
I love it when a group of people, atheists in this case, get so upset at any criticism of them that they resort to personal attacks.

Hey, I wasn't the one who attempted to demonstrate that atheists are more intelligent than non-atheists. To me that's as bad as claiming aryans are superior.

Hmmm... I wonder if anyone has done any studies claiming that atheists tend to be more aryan than the general population. I'm betting that's the case. Makes me also wonder what the stats are on how affluent atheists are as compared to everyone else. I'm betting more so. Gender?

Yeah, I'm betting the average atheist is a spoiled rich white boy who thinks he's better than everyone else.

That's average, mind you. There's bound to be exceptions.

Man is the only animal that blushes, or needs to.-- Mark Twain
#31  
View Public Profile Visit Michael1's homepage Find more posts by Michael1 Add Michael1 to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 7549/8194
(06-May-2008 at 18:47)
Re: Professor: Atheists are more intelligent than believers

Originally Posted by Michael1: View Post
Why not? I'm better prepared simply because I'm open to the possibility, whereas an atheist presumably will have never given the afterlife a second thought.
Those atheists who have made a conscious decision that they don't believe in God despite having friends and family who do probably have thought more about the issue than most religious or agnostic people. I'm an atheist, and apart for a considerable surprise I'd have no problem with waking up to an afterlife, I don't think it'll happen, but it's not as if I would try to deny it if it happened. I still don't see how you are better prepared than that, although you certainly are better prepared than the average religious person, unless his particular religion happens to be the correct one. Imagine being a devout Jew and be greeted by Jesus after death.
Quote:
Hey, I wasn't the one who attempted to demonstrate that atheists are more intelligent than non-atheists. To me that's as bad as claiming aryans are superior.
Bad analogy. Would you be equally offended if anyone said professors were more intelligent than average people? Being religious is a conscious choice unlike belonging to a certain "race", and it is not surprising if intelligent people make different choices in many areas. It's not that being atheist makes you intelligent, it's that being intelligent you think more independently and are more likely to reject religion.
Quote:
Hmmm... I wonder if anyone has done any studies claiming that atheists tend to be more aryan than the general population.
I imagine you find a few in communist China as well
Quote:
Makes me also wonder what the stats are on how affluent atheists are as compared to everyone else. I'm betting more so.
Makes sense if atheists are more intelligent
Quote:
Gender?
No idea, probably fairly evenly split.
#32  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Bernel Add Bernel to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 5008/5486
Donated $11.20
(07-May-2008 at 03:16)


Re: Professor: Atheists are more intelligent than believers

Originally Posted by Bernel: View Post
Bad analogy. Would you be equally offended if anyone said professors were more intelligent than average people?
Sure, titles don't make one intelligent in the least bit. Would you? Oh never mind, I know you folk don't answer questions but merely demand.

Quote:
Being religious is a conscious choice unlike belonging to a certain "race", and it is not surprising if intelligent people make different choices in many areas. It's not that being atheist makes you intelligent, it's that being intelligent you think more independently and are more likely to reject religion.
BULLSHIT! Being intelligent does'nt make you more likely to be an aethist. Isn't that your new contention?

Quote:
you find a few in communist China as well
Yeah, pointing out people who are denied free will really makes your arguement.

oh wow... free will ... where do you stand on that matter again?

On the next responses, I conclude you agree that the average atheist is a spoiled rotten rich white boy. Thats' average worthless atheist who has no intention to make anything of his life, mind you. Of course, you never know for sure.

Man is the only animal that blushes, or needs to.-- Mark Twain
#33  
View Public Profile Visit Michael1's homepage Find more posts by Michael1 Add Michael1 to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 1602/2860
(07-May-2008 at 07:01)


Re: Professor: Atheists are more intelligent than believers

Originally Posted by hussein: View Post
While you're busy attacking theism, consider this situation.

Mother Teresa: Spent her life devoted to the poor. Possibly one of the most selfless people in modern history. Died at the age of 87.

Josef Stalin: Tyrant of the Soviet Union. Estimated to have killed 20 million of his own countrymen. Died at the age of 75.

Yet, according to agnostics/atheists such as yourself, they end up in the same place (the perpetual blackness of death), despite the disparity in the morality of their lives.

Do you want to explain this? For Christians, Muslims, Jews, it is not hard to explain. Josef Stalin will burn in hell for his pernicious deeds.

See the problem with your scenario?
I'll explain it: That sucks. It also sucks, that you didn't prove anything.

Mars II - American Scientist
PhD - Physical Chemistry
#34  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Mars II Add Mars II to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 7550/8194
(07-May-2008 at 07:18)
Re: Professor: Atheists are more intelligent than believers

Originally Posted by Michael1: View Post
Sure, titles don't make one intelligent in the least bit.
Obviously it isn't the title that makes you intelligent, but it does usually take a certain level of intelligence to get an academic degree.
Quote:
BULLSHIT! Being intelligent does'nt make you more likely to be an aethist. Isn't that your new contention?
I know of earlier surveys showing that scientists are less likely to be religious than the average person, and that more prominent scientists tend to be even less religious, which to me strengthen the belief that indeed scientists are on average more intelligent, but since you don't believe academics are more intelligent (however you define intelligence) that will obviously not convince you.
Quote:
Yeah, pointing out people who are denied free will really makes your arguement.
There are Christians in China as well. I'm not sure people in China has less free will in the matter than many Americans who live in areas where they will be expelled from the community if they publically declare their atheism.
Quote:
oh wow... free will ... where do you stand on that matter again?
Eh? The problem of free will really only exist for people who believe in an omnipotent creator God. Then they have to figure why they can do what they want rather than what he wants.
Quote:
On the next responses, I conclude you agree that the average atheist is a spoiled rotten rich white boy.
How did you reach that conclusion? Wishful thinking again? You really seem to hate atheists with a passion. An atheist stole your girlfriend in the past?
#35  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Bernel Add Bernel to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 162/164
(07-May-2008 at 07:32)
you guys are forgetting one thing...

That professor is not exactly...uhm...that cleaver himself. To be honest a lot of people here in denmark dont really listen to some of the crazy things he says. I wouldnt consider him a decent source of information at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmuth_Nyborg

All in all this guy is walking a fine line between doing propper research and being a racist...
#36  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Oluf Add Oluf to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 1874/2297
(07-May-2008 at 10:49)


Re: Professor: Atheists are more intelligent than believers

Originally Posted by Oluf: View Post
you guys are forgetting one thing...

That professor is not exactly...uhm...that cleaver himself. To be honest a lot of people here in denmark dont really listen to some of the crazy things he says. I wouldnt consider him a decent source of information at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmuth_Nyborg

All in all this guy is walking a fine line between doing propper research and being a racist...
And why is he a racist? Because he concluded from research that white people are on average slightly more intelligent then black people? It's quite pathetic how people fail to realise what academic honesty means. It would have been really bad if he had done this research and decided not to publish because the results were not politically correct.

So unless you have any real evidence that this guy is a racist (pictures of him in a white hooded cloak would suffice), I'm calling bullshit.

Modern world I'm not pleased to meet you

You just bring me down
#37  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Caelis666 Add Caelis666 to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 436/742
(07-May-2008 at 12:03)


Re: Professor: Atheists are more intelligent than believers

Originally Posted by Michael1: View Post
Sure, titles don't make one intelligent in the least bit.
1. Titles don't make people intelligent indeed, they are however a symbol for having had years of academic education, and it is proven that does on average make people more intelligent (the learned kind of intelligence that is, which is part of what IQ-tests measure).

2. Intelligent (the non-learned, natural talent kind, which is the other part of what IQ-tests measure) children are already more likely to end up with titles, because they have an easier time getting through the school system. The result of that is that decades later the average person with a title is more intelligent than the average person without. Not because they have the title, but because they already started out with higher ability, and trained themselves for years on top of that. The title of doctor doesn't cause intelligence, intelligence causes people to obtain doctor's degrees. It's so completely obvious and natural a process, i'm not sure why you're arguing against it, especially in such a simplistic fashion.

In exactly the same vein;

-Intelligent children are less likely to end up smoking as adults.
-Intelligent children are more likely to end up vegetarian in adulthood.
-Intelligent children are less likely to be obese in adulthood.
-Intelligent children are likely to end up living longer than less intelligent ones.
-Intelligent children are more likely to be healthy throughout adulthood.
-Intelligent children are more likely to be rich in adulthood.
-Intelligent children are less likely to have a lot of children in adulthood.

And intelligent children are (slightly) more likely to end up atheist in adulthood..

On average.

There's no direct causal link between the two, it is simply so that throughout life intelligence on average inclines one to make choices that result in ending up with less religious beliefs, and in communities that are generally less religious.

Don't argue against that out of emotional reflex, denying reality because it conflicts with your personal ideology is no praiseworthy affair. And i'm not even an atheist, mind you, but even God agrees with this particular statistic.

Your brain is unique in the history of the universe. Use it wisely.
#38  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Dusk Illz Add Dusk Illz to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 5009/5486
Donated $11.20
(07-May-2008 at 15:08)


Re: Professor: Atheists are more intelligent than believers

Originally Posted by Dusk Illz: View Post
There's no direct causal link between the two, it is simply so that throughout life intelligence on average inclines one to make choices that result in ending up with less religious beliefs, and in communities that are generally less religious.

Don't argue against that out of emotional reflex, denying reality because it conflicts with your personal ideology is no praiseworthy affair. And i'm not even an atheist, mind you, but even God agrees with this particular statistic.
I'm not actually interested in whether or not atheists on average are more intelligent than others. I'm more concerned about the arrogance it takes for them to attempt to establish that and use it to prop themselves up as 'holier than thou' if you will.

My disgust in a religious person claiming to be morally superior equals my disgust for atheists claiming to be intellectually superior.

One would think the average atheist, having dealt with theists looking down on them for their lack of morality, would not turn the tables and look down on theists for their lack of intellect. Alas, even if atheists are more intelligent they clearly demonstrate low levels of wisdom, maturity, and humility.

Man is the only animal that blushes, or needs to.-- Mark Twain
#39  
View Public Profile Visit Michael1's homepage Find more posts by Michael1 Add Michael1 to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
(Posted as Celtic19)
Posts: 272/410
(07-May-2008 at 15:24)


Originally Posted by Michael1: View Post
I'm not actually interested in whether or not atheists on average are more intelligent than others. I'm more concerned about the arrogance it takes for them to attempt to establish that and use it to prop themselves up as 'holier than thou' if you will.

My disgust in a religious person claiming to be morally superior equals my disgust for atheists claiming to be intellectually superior.

One would think the average atheist, having dealt with theists looking down on them for their lack of morality, would not turn the tables and look down on theists for their lack of intellect. Alas, even if atheists are more intelligent they clearly demonstrate low levels of wisdom, maturity, and humility.
And who says the average atheist looks down on others for their lack of intellect? Do you know so many atheists you can actually form an opinion on the "average"?

Nice of you to look down on the on the average atheist based on the actions of a few 'intelligent' morons.
#40  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Celtic22 Add Celtic22 to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump:

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Teaching Intelligent Design Unconstitutional: Courts Reichstag Respectable General Discussions 27 23-Dec-2005 12:27
Intelligent Design: "DUH" and the Flying Spaghetti Monster. tlhInganHom Respectable General Discussions 112 03-Oct-2005 04:05
Defining Intelligent Life Wavelength Respectable General Discussions 15 11-Jun-2005 08:10
The logic of a supreme being MAPS Religious Discussions 12 07-Aug-2004 06:08
intelligent life on other planets PHRACK Respectable General Discussions 79 24-Nov-2003 12:01


All times are GMT+1. The time now is 01:18.

Powered by vBulletin (modified)
Copyright ©2000-2006, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.