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Posts: 159/171
(27-Sep-2003 at 01:24)


grr.. Mehul On Happiness

In the Bugs & Suggestions forum of the Utopia boards Mehul replied on a thread named "dictating morality".I have here compiled a thread with the most relevant posts from the thread at the present time:

ikeaboy
Member Sep 26th ##:## AM

I remember back in the day Mehul saying he would try to never "dictate morality" in utopia. Anyone else remember that? The phrase stuck in my head and I was impressed Mehul had concieved of it that way. I interpreted this phrase to mean that he wouldn't tell players how they should use their provinces and kingdoms to interact with others.

Yet:

- You should fight several wars during the age

- You should finish your wars within a week

- You should attack larger provinces

- You should avoid attacking much smaller provinces

- You should have theives and use them on others

- You should have wizards and use them on others

- You should have offense

- You should send aid to kingdommates

- You should avoid receiving aid from kingdommates

- You should try to avoid getting theif ops done against you

- You should try to avoid getting mage ops done against you


All of these are DIRECTLY dictated by the happiness system - there is a message for them. All of them involve what you should (or should not) do when interacting with other provinces and kingdoms.

If I added the behaviors that were INDIRECTLY dictated (ex. fake warring) the list would grow much longer. I've tried to be careful to limit this list to interactive dictations - happiness also dictates to a large degree what you do within your own province (ex. don't build many homes). But that's "dictating strategy" and not something Mehul said he was trying to avoid.





Swirve
Administrator Sep 26th ##:## PM

All of these are DIRECTLY dictated by the happiness system - there is a message for them. All of them involve what you should (or should not) do when interacting with other provinces and kingdoms.

Happiness is no more of a limiter than anything else in the game. You can ignore happiness if you want. If you don't want an offense, don't get one. One silly message is not going have a major impact on you.

It's no different than you having to choose between peasants or military. The fact that drafting troops reduces your income doesn't mean you can't draft troops. Similarly, the fact that not having an offense might cause a tiny drop in happiness doesn't mean you must have an offense.

Happiness dictates nothing unless you make having high happiness your primary goal, which is entirely unnecessary for success. Plenty of top provinces last age had lower-than-average happiness over the course of the age.





Played awhile
Member Sep 26th 1:59 PM

"Swirve
Administrator Sep 26th ##:## PM"

- One silly message is not going have a major impact on you.


Since you "hide" half or more of the truth about happiness (in other words outside the messages) I have to agree with you for once.

However it's unavoidable to miss all the flaws happiness gives.


* Contradicting messages

* The negative messages got a much bigger impact on your happiness than the positive ones

* It's damn easy to slip into the downgoing happiness spiral

* It's much harder to stay at a high level of happiness

* The whole theif/mage/attacking impacts on happiness is a joke. It's unbalanced.



But that's not the point. Everyone that has played for a while laughs at happiness but accepts it as long as they feel they got enough time by the internet to play a free game.

You have restricted the game so much. Where has it gotten you?

To the level of restrictment that the only way to succeed is to find abuses/loopholes. GJ!

A couple of examples. Fake wars. Happiness farming. A stagnant gamefield where pumping, pumping, pumping is the only way to have a chance of succeeding (not really a loophole but nevertheless extremely boring).

YOU HAVE CREATED A BORING GAME!

To answer your most common reply to critique.

No I don't play your game so don't give me that. But I blaim you for taking away a funny, "vivid", dynamic text based game that one actually played due to other factors than boredom and too much spare time.

Thanks!





Sarcastic Bunny
Moderator Sep 26th ##:## PM

Mehul, no offense.. but you don't play this game anymore do you? Your reply in this thread, shows quite a lack of understanding of your game.

You can look at stats, etc.. all day long. But if you aren't actively playing the game day to day, you miss out.

Sure, happiness in theory may be a good idea, but theory, and actually doing something, don't always line up.

Happiness won't drop much from a silly message? It drops when you don't have even have any silly messages! And the negative ones last too long, the positive ones don't seem to last.

I've been out of war for over a day, and still have negative thief and mage messages. Still trending down. I'd be happy staying at happy, but your game is set up, so if we go through a bad stretch in war, we are screwed for the next few days at least. And once the negative messages go away, happiness won't just pop up. Like it will do oppositely, when we lose positive messages, and drop.

You're turned this game into a very boring, slow game compared to how it use to be. You may not agree, but those who've been playing since Age 1, know for a fact this game is nothing to what it use to be. Maybe that's what you want, and sure, your game, you can mess it up all you want. Again, no offense.

And I don't find it fun, sitting around for a day, just to have gold to do stuff. Everything either gets more expensive, or income is removed from the game. That doesn't do anything to improve game play.

Ugh.. well ending rant now.

I agree with Harl, played awahile.. I disgree endor, the changes are what made Utopia boring. It's not the same game anymore.

Deleted -> You are quite wrong, and this game is about as far from fair as possible.

Sir Vival

I have retired from Utopia...
#1  
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(27-Sep-2003 at 01:48)
big ouch for mehul
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(Posted as monksTGP)
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(27-Sep-2003 at 02:09)
freak

omg! only reason they say this game is getting boring is because they played it too long! ever watched a movie to many times or played a video game to many times? That is why people leave utopia and then join again later on! because you can't just play something constantly and expect it not to get boring! And another thing is that you have to change things! If you don't change things then it gets more boring faster because it just becomes the same old thing.
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(27-Sep-2003 at 02:10)
uh... the thread broke or something =P
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(27-Sep-2003 at 02:10)


watch him quit, then swirve with have to find a new Utopia 'Lord'

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(27-Sep-2003 at 02:14)


I agree SO totally!

Happiness tends to be some aspect of the game way too challenging and difficult to keep and maintain.

Good players can get high happiness and keep it cos they have success, but newer players will always stay on Disgruntled-Happy (MAX Excited) either cos its extremely irrational to comprehend or to dificult to please your peasants.

Please improve the happiness to a more realistic level, cos its a darn good idea, just not created properly.

And while Im with it: for Gods sake, plz implement the idea of Good/evil ratings or the idea of having a religion/Deity....that would make the game SO more flowing and wide.


Love Yall.

"You know the world is really messed up when the best golfer is black, the best rapper is white; and not even Germany wants to go to war anymore"
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(Posted as eQuiNoxXx NH)
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(27-Sep-2003 at 02:15)


lol.. this really calls for a change when even his mods are complaining.. mehul got mehulerized
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(27-Sep-2003 at 02:29)


Quote:
(Originally posted by eQuiNoxXx NH)

lol.. this really calls for a change when even his mods are complaining.. mehul got mehulerized
SB always complained, and is pretty much always got very good points.

---------------------

Mehul just don't listen to anyone, he aint got the time to run the game now (look how long it took to fix the OOW bug) & overall he doesn't have a clue how his own game works anymore.


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Why should we allow your signature to have a height of 80 pixels, and force everyone else to go with 60?
Because I've got a fucking cute ass? I've seen better. -Valek
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(27-Sep-2003 at 02:46)


SB's beena twit about this. I've watched his constant rants about there being nothing reality based in the game - he even blatantly admitted to being willing to delete any posts that state otherwise! He wants unrealistic management of provinces to present incredibly levels of goodies to the players who know best how to abuse the game. Frankly, anythign he says I tend to ignore and move on to more believable posters.

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(27-Sep-2003 at 02:55)


Happiness should be removed from the game and the idea of Good/Evil ratings should be introduced.

It seems as though everything you do, and everything done to you, affects your happiness in some way. Usually a bad way. Something goes wrong and you pay for it for a few days, something goes right and you get a small bonus for a number of hours.

Earlier in the age a T/M was causing headaches for me in a war (I am Undead, he was Elf). He would kill some wizzies and I would attack him at least once a day. When the war ended I had the failed thieves message for THREE real days. But not once did I get a bonus for breaking him every time.

So remove happiness and add Good/Evil ratings each with their own bonuses and negatives. These ratings should also be specific to your race/playing style (A, T/M).

Last edited by iDraxor, 27-Sep-2003 at 02:56.
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(27-Sep-2003 at 03:03)


Quote:
(Originally posted by moonfriend)

SB's beena twit about this. I've watched his constant rants about there being nothing reality based in the game - he even blatantly admitted to being willing to delete any posts that state otherwise! He wants unrealistic management of provinces to present incredibly levels of goodies to the players who know best how to abuse the game. Frankly, anythign he says I tend to ignore and move on to more believable posters.
After seeing the crap you've wrote in AD I hardly think you are in any possition to complain about peoples postings.

The topic of the thread was NOT to discuss how utopia is like real life or not, rather to cover how happiness forces people to play a certain way (where as util there was no effects from chooseing not to run off/etc, atleast not directly like with happiness).

Compareing a game to real life is stupidity anyway.

Signature suspended by Brother Nazgul for violating the forum's rules.
Why should we allow your signature to have a height of 80 pixels, and force everyone else to go with 60?
Because I've got a fucking cute ass? I've seen better. -Valek
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(Posted as Ashnod NI)
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(27-Sep-2003 at 03:07)
One of the things we should be pushing for is not to get rid of happiness but to tailor it more to a specific race. Orcs should be less susceptible to the neg. theivery and magery messages simply because t/ming is not their strong suit. At the same turn, a faery who gets T/Med to hell should get the message because a fae has it's strongsuit in t/ming...

But the game isn't as fun as it used to be. The only reason I really play is because of the people I play with. The novelty...the enjoyment of the game has gone away. The game is slow and methodical...I hate fake wars, yet I'm always in them. But feh, what can you do?

'twas naught but a dream
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(27-Sep-2003 at 03:16)


Ashnod: Makes it a little unfair doesnt it though?

What about those Faery players who want to be Attackers? Or those Orcs who want to be T/Ms?

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(27-Sep-2003 at 03:54)
I played utopia since aged 4th,un doubtedly,the game become boring and boring,many ages i play for half of age,then enter vacation mode,waiting new age for a good system,but it looked worse and worse.And i found other similiar game but more interested.....,maybe it is my time to leave utopia
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(27-Sep-2003 at 04:09)
actually i agree with ashnod. i mean, think about it, the peasants of an orc could care less if they get FBed to hell cause orcs aren't strong t/ms like ashnod said, and the likewise with the faery. also, introducing good/evil alignment (characteristic, or whatever you wanna call it) would be really complicated to work out. while i think it would be great to have, i think happiness needs to be fixed and fine tuned a good deal before they introduce anything new
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(27-Sep-2003 at 04:13)


I'll admit, this is only my second age, so I haven't played that much to know how it was since age 1 or anything, and the game is nice but it is so unbalanced, not jus tthe happiness system.
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(27-Sep-2003 at 04:26)
Quote:
(Originally posted by iDraxor)

Earlier in the age a T/M was causing headaches for me in a war (I am Undead, he was Elf). He would kill some wizzies and I would attack him at least once a day. When the war ended I had the failed thieves message for THREE real days. But not once did I get a bonus for breaking him every time.
The unbalance seems to be between tms and attackers. It is soooo much easier to keep a high happiness as a tm, and very difficult as an attacker. Tms can keep lower draft, get the bonuses from magery/thievery etc etc. Attackers struggle to have one happiness bonus. Attackers should get a bonus by making successful attacks, but this doesnt happy.

Redress this balance, and you will solve many problems. Lets face it, being a tm can get very boring, and with the happiness maluses, being an attacker is hardly appealing either.
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(27-Sep-2003 at 04:44)
Quote:
(Originally posted by calnvary)

I played utopia since aged 4th,un doubtedly,the game become boring and boring,many ages i play for half of age,then enter vacation mode,waiting new age for a good system,but it looked worse and worse.And i found other similiar game but more interested.....,maybe it is my time to leave utopia
what game is it?
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(27-Sep-2003 at 05:22)
"Utopia is boring", wah, wah, wah.

If you don't like it, design your own or find a different game. Don't go complain to the designer.

Think people, Think.

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler.
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(27-Sep-2003 at 05:35)


i think mehul should play the game, on BF in a newb ghetto to experience what 70% of what most kingdoms really aare(newb ghettos) and how when you get whooped in every war and land dropped to almost nothing your happiness and all those little bugs and such that really make things worse for the less talented, he needs to learn that size makes all the difference and have these bugs only effect people who and 2XXX acres and such.(and shut up about the "thats not fair for us" b/s you probably arent that big any way) this would make the game more challnging for the truly talented players in the kingdoms that are 3 times the size of yours, thus creating a smaller gap in between uberl33t kingdoms and so-so kingdoms. said my part enjoi my rare public speaking

Bah
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