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(10-Dec-2004 at 16:21)


My "Psychotic" Beliefs.

For the past few months, my beliefs have evolved dramatically, with no set direction. I now have a set of beliefs many regard as "psychotic". Is there some sort of label for my beliefs? I don't know. I'm here to find out.

-I believe that Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the same God, and it was the same God that sent Moses, Jesus and Muhammad down.

-I believe that God gave us intelligence so that we are free to inteprete the Torah, Bible and Quran as we wish, and at the same time, sift out the BS from it.

-I believe God was part of a long line of creations, with something creating God, something else creating the entity that created God, and so on. We are the next in line of this creation line, and we are currently working to create things like machines, who may one day become completely independent of our control(just like God gave us free will).

Am I psychotic? Because many people are calling me "wierd", "eccentric", and "crazy".

Religion is the mental disease of the masses.
"Once again, religion is like sniffing gasoline. Both cause permanant brain damage." -- Obsidian
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(10-Dec-2004 at 16:31)


Re: My "Psychotic" Beliefs.

Quote:
(Originally posted by dothackRAVE)
-I believe God was part of a long line of creations, with something creating God, something else creating the entity that created God, and so on. We are the next in line of this creation line, and we are currently working to create things like machines, who may one day become completely independent of our control(just like God gave us free will).
I know Mormons wouldn't call you weird at all for this one.
Their belief is that humans can be as God is and create worlds of their own someday in an eternal state of progression.

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(10-Dec-2004 at 16:52)
No, I don't think you're "psychotic". I think you are getting to the "questioning everything" point. That may be a step in your way: you can come out of it more solid and with a better understanding of the true, but you may also fall in complete nonsense, which would led you to a future estrangement of truth and it's search. Any how, the stakes are big, caution and rigour are the two legs, and Faith is the light. Remember Jesus said: "I am the Path" and try to find it.
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(11-Dec-2004 at 06:29)


I believe in the first 2 with ya rave. however, the last one is pretty open. im accpeting of that cos the bibles kinda vague on that (alpha n omega is a weak argument). we'll see come death time :P

Where has my avatar gone?

The true meaning of silence
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(11-Dec-2004 at 15:13)


Re: My "Psychotic" Beliefs.

Quote:
(Originally posted by dothackRAVE)

Am I psychotic? Because many people are calling me "wierd", "eccentric", and "crazy".
no, you're not. but these changes in beliefs you've been undergoing are getting more frequent. although i do believe that thought is fluid, i fear that whenever you read something you think makes sense, you immediately shift your position without looking more deeply into it. i see it as trying to accommodate as many beliefs as possible in order to be more open-minded. but that isn't really being open-minded. perhaps it is being confused. perhaps it is not being able to make a stand.

with all the knowledge you've gathered, try to see if anything makes sense. if anything is amiss, question it. try to find things that may support it. if you fail to find things that support it, throw it away. define where you lie. but of course, if you find something better, make way for it. but before you make way for it, do this test on it. that should help you define your beliefs. you don't need a name for it. but things need to be clear in your head.
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(11-Dec-2004 at 20:25)


Re: My "Psychotic" Beliefs.

Quote:
(Originally posted by dothackRAVE)

For the past few months, my beliefs have evolved dramatically, with no set direction. I now have a set of beliefs many regard as "psychotic". Is there some sort of label for my beliefs? I don't know. I'm here to find out.

-I believe that Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the same God, and it was the same God that sent Moses, Jesus and Muhammad down.

-I believe that God gave us intelligence so that we are free to inteprete the Torah, Bible and Quran as we wish, and at the same time, sift out the BS from it.
I agree with you here, but I'll add Zorastrians, Bahai, HIndu Budhists, and Sabean(possibly the religion Abraham belonged to) ANd their revelators to the list.
Zorastrian Zorathustra(Zoroaster)
Bahai Bahá'u'lláh
Hindu Krishna
Budhists Budha
Sabean (unkown)
Quote:
-I believe God was part of a long line of creations, with something creating God, something else creating the entity that created God, and so on. We are the next in line of this creation line, and we are currently working to create things like machines, who may one day become completely independent of our control(just like God gave us free will).
It's possible, I don't know. Never came across this anywhere. I don't ascribe to it, but it seems just as valid as any other idea about god.

Quote:
Am I psychotic? Because many people are calling me "wierd", "eccentric", and "crazy".
No, you just seem to be at the stage where you're trying to FIND something. I hope you do.

"I KEEK A TOUCHDOWN!" - Garo Yepremian
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(11-Dec-2004 at 21:40)


You are not psychotic rave, even I do not agree with all your points ( mostly about Muhammed but that's my problem )

Wasn't there are wise man who once said: "No man is prophet in his own country." That is so true.

Extremist persons intend to view their beliueves are right. Because you happend immerge three major religions believes you are targeted by extremist because they cannot accept your views.

We'll see truth when we die...

Generalization is rhetorics of simpletons.
"Sages learn from history... idiots learn from experience" -Fairy Tail manga
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(15-Dec-2004 at 04:11)


Re: My "Psychotic" Beliefs.

Quote:
(Originally posted by dothackRAVE)

For the past few months, my beliefs have evolved dramatically, with no set direction. I now have a set of beliefs many regard as "psychotic". Is there some sort of label for my beliefs? I don't know. I'm here to find out.

-I believe that Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the same God, and it was the same God that sent Moses, Jesus and Muhammad down.

-I believe that God gave us intelligence so that we are free to inteprete the Torah, Bible and Quran as we wish, and at the same time, sift out the BS from it.

-I believe God was part of a long line of creations, with something creating God, something else creating the entity that created God, and so on. We are the next in line of this creation line, and we are currently working to create things like machines, who may one day become completely independent of our control(just like God gave us free will).

Am I psychotic? Because many people are calling me "wierd", "eccentric", and "crazy".
I have to applaud you rave. this is the first post i've seen of yours that didn't offend someone or spark inappropiate debate.

I will agree with your second one, but like Menchalior, the first one bothers me. I don't like to compare Muhammad to Jesus, but really that is my personal beliefs causing that. And as for the third it could be true I guess, but in Revalations God speaks of being the Alpha and Omega, so i don't believe he is one in a line of creations.

Last Member of the Church of Valek
-------------------------------------
Insert something witty here.
"I have not yet begun to fight!" -John Paul Jones
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(15-Dec-2004 at 08:43)


Quote:
(Originally posted by Lord Menchalior)

You are not psychotic rave, even I do not agree with all your points ( mostly about Muhammed but that's my problem )

Wasn't there are wise man who once said: "No man is prophet in his own country." That is so true.

Extremist persons intend to view their beliueves are right. Because you happend immerge three major religions believes you are targeted by extremist because they cannot accept your views.

We'll see truth when we die...
or not if athiasts are correct:P


anyway raev - your not - everyone has beliefs and yours hold good ground

Saint Sinner for President 2012
You're all fucking stupid
You're mafia, dont deny it.
Absalom
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(15-Dec-2004 at 18:04)
Quote:
For the past few months, my beliefs have evolved dramatically, with no set direction. I now have a set of beliefs many regard as "psychotic". Is there some sort of label for my beliefs? I don't know. I'm here to find out.

-I believe that Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the same God, and it was the same God that sent Moses, Jesus and Muhammad down.

-I believe that God gave us intelligence so that we are free to inteprete the Torah, Bible and Quran as we wish, and at the same time, sift out the BS from it.

-I believe God was part of a long line of creations, with something creating God, something else creating the entity that created God, and so on. We are the next in line of this creation line, and we are currently working to create things like machines, who may one day become completely independent of our control(just like God gave us free will).

Am I psychotic? Because many people are calling me "wierd", "eccentric", and "crazy".
As a Christian, I must say that Jews, Christians, and Muslims DO NOT believe in the same God. If you academically, even without a bias, compare them you will see that they are not the same God. Jews are legalistic and deny that Jesus was the Messiah, Muslims also deny Jesus as Christ and Messiah which both of these religions are defined in the Bible as "the spirit of the anti-christ." If you want to look it's in I John 4:2-3.

I have also done some extensive research on Islam just out of interest and it is quite clear that Allah is not the same god as the One Almighty God. In Islam, Allah does not prove his love for sinners. According to the Qu'ran sinners will go to hell pretty much. There is no guarantee of salvation for Muslims, you can ask any Muslim that and eventually they will tell you no they have no assurance. Why? Because no assurance was given from Muhammad. However, in Christianity, there is an assurance given that Christ is faithful to forgive all sins, and that all we have to do is believe. There is nothing a man can do to attain it and there is absolutely nothing a man has done to receive it, it is by the grace of God the Father.

I have not done so much research on Jews, but to my understanding they are quite legalistic and the only way to have salvation is by obeying the laws that were put in place by Moses and such. However, Abraham was a righteous man and he lived by faith and he did not even have the laws of Moses. So that is proof right there that we are to live by faith and not laws. The second is that it is impossible to live up to each and every law. The law is not there to be the source of salvation, but it is there to show us humans how imperfect we are and how we need to have grace to actually attain redemption and a relationship with Jesus Christ.

Both Islam and Judaism are religions of salvation by works, but Christianity is salvation by grace and it is the only religion that offers such a promise.

So no we do not worship the same God. Islam and Judaism make God out to be a liar and in Numbers 23:19 it says "God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does He speak and then not act? Does He promise and not fulfill?" Christianity is filled with God's promises and how He has fulfilled them. The others leave you with a sense of hopelessness. Amen to Jesus Christ

~"For God so loved the world that He sent His One and only Son that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" -John 3: 16~
~"Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent" -John 17: 3~
#10  
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(16-Dec-2004 at 15:57)


Quote:
(Originally posted by LandofSerenity)

As a Christian, I must say that Jews, Christians, and Muslims DO NOT believe in the same God. If you academically, even without a bias, compare them you will see that they are not the same God. Jews are legalistic and deny that Jesus was the Messiah, Muslims also deny Jesus as Christ and Messiah which both of these religions are defined in the Bible as "the spirit of the anti-christ." If you want to look it's in I John ##:##-3.
I can justify my beliefs quite well, and I'm going to try it here.

Quote:
I have also done some extensive research on Islam just out of interest and it is quite clear that Allah is not the same god as the One Almighty God. In Islam, Allah does not prove his love for sinners. According to the Qu'ran sinners will go to hell pretty much. There is no guarantee of salvation for Muslims, you can ask any Muslim that and eventually they will tell you no they have no assurance. Why? Because no assurance was given from Muhammad. However, in Christianity, there is an assurance given that Christ is faithful to forgive all sins, and that all we have to do is believe. There is nothing a man can do to attain it and there is absolutely nothing a man has done to receive it, it is by the grace of God the Father.
I don't know who told you Christians are bound to be forgiven and sent straight to Heaven. If you kill as a Christian, you still go to Hell, even if you kill in the name of God. Afterall, one of the Commandments was "Thou shalt not kill".

In Islam, no assurance was given for this reason. Even if you kill in the name of Allah, you go to Hell, without regard for your faith. Of course sinners will go to Hell. What sort of "research" did you do anyway?

Quote:
I have not done so much research on Jews, but to my understanding they are quite legalistic and the only way to have salvation is by obeying the laws that were put in place by Moses and such. However, Abraham was a righteous man and he lived by faith and he did not even have the laws of Moses. So that is proof right there that we are to live by faith and not laws. The second is that it is impossible to live up to each and every law. The law is not there to be the source of salvation, but it is there to show us humans how imperfect we are and how we need to have grace to actually attain redemption and a relationship with Jesus Christ.
There are over 107 laws Jews have to abide by, I believe.

Here's a question for you. Why do you think the Bible includes the Old Testament(which is, in actual fact, The Torah, the book for the Jews) and the New Testemant(The story of Jesus)? I'm pretty sure they weren't there for fun.

God isn't supposed to be some rigid bastard with strict laws. He's supposed to love everyone, and if he imposed such a strict distinction between Jew, Christian and Muslim, I can safely say, most of the world's going to Hell, in which case, Satan's army looks pretty darned strong right now.

Quote:
Both Islam and Judaism are religions of salvation by works, but Christianity is salvation by grace and it is the only religion that offers such a promise.
Maybe God decided to switch ideals after He realised how many morons are taking the "salvation by grace" thing for granted?

Salvation by grace means that a serial killer can go to Heaven just by accepting Jesus on his deathbed. It also means a virtous man goes to Hell if he does not accept Jesus. Where's the logic in that? I refuse to acknowledge that God can be such a sadistic asshole, because I've not seen him in that foul Old Testament mood for centuries.

Quote:
So no we do not worship the same God. Islam and Judaism make God out to be a liar and in Numbers ##:## it says "God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does He speak and then not act? Does He promise and not fulfill?" Christianity is filled with God's promises and how He has fulfilled them. The others leave you with a sense of hopelessness. Amen to Jesus Christ
Here are a few shockers:

-There are more Gospels than what is included in the Bible. Bet they didn't tell you that during your brainwashi..., errr, I mean, Bible study class.

-The Gospel of St. Barnabas clearly states, that when it was asked who would return to save the world, the answer was "His name is Muhammad". This Gospel was condemned three times by the Church, solely because it questioned Christian authority. Sounds pretty Stalinist of them to me.

-In the Gospel of Matthew(if you refuse to believe outside sources aside from that heavily edited Bible), when it was asked who would return to save the world, the answer was "His name is The Praised". Many believe this guy to be Jesus. Here's the shocking part. In Armaic(the language Jesus speaks), "The Praised" is pronounced "Muhamadu". Ahmad, or Muhammad, means The Praised in Arabic.

-To further show links between Christianity and Judaism(since I've practically owned you in terms of links between Islam and Christ), we can see this in Revelations, where it was openly stated that Moses would return(at least, that's what they told me in church). If the church was wrong on that part, we can also see links in terms of the times of Abraham. Sure, Abraham lived by faith, and while Moses, by laws, however, both have very similar ideas in terms of what God likes to do. God loves us, but in OT, before Jesus came down to die for all our sins, God killed sinners brutally with plagues and famines.

I'd be so bold as to say ALL religion are linked, although I have found little evidence for this. Just look at all the different religions. All of them have a basic concept of what's good and bad, and these concepts are pretty darned similar when compared. I've not found the other evidence. I hope to as I go along.

Religion is the mental disease of the masses.
"Once again, religion is like sniffing gasoline. Both cause permanant brain damage." -- Obsidian
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(16-Dec-2004 at 16:29)
Quote:
I don't know who told you Christians are bound to be forgiven and sent straight to Heaven. If you kill as a Christian, you still go to Hell, even if you kill in the name of God. Afterall, one of the Commandments was "Thou shalt not kill".
For the record the commandment does not say thou shall not kill. It says "Thou shall not murder" so that is one wrong point. Second, I never said someone who claimed to be a christian and murdered someone would go to heaven. I said in Christianity, meaning the true belief of Christianity, forgiveness of sins is assured, period if you ask for forgiveness and you are sincere. Because there are some who go and purposefully commit a sin and then try and get on God's "good side" by asking for forgiveness after they are done. That is not sincerity.

Quote:
In Islam, no assurance was given for this reason. Even if you kill in the name of Allah, you go to Hell, without regard for your faith. Of course sinners will go to Hell. What sort of "research" did you do anyway?
Ok, so you are saying that even during a Jihad men who kill infidels are going to hell? Then why does it promise paradise? If you want suras to go along with this I'll be happy to get them for you.

Quote:
Here's a question for you. Why do you think the Bible includes the Old Testament(which is, in actual fact, The Torah, the book for the Jews) and the New Testemant(The story of Jesus)? I'm pretty sure they weren't there for fun.
You're right they are not there for fun. They are there to show us how impure we are as human beings. There is absolutely no way a person can achieve perfection with those laws. Thus in the Old Testament if a law was broken then there had to be a sacrifice of blood for the atonement and redemption of sin. However, God sent Jesus Christ as the ultimate sacrfice of all sins. The blood was shed for all and so He is the atonement and redemption of our sins. This is the difference between Jews and Christians. Jews don't believe Jesus Christ as the Savior and Atonement of sin and Christians do.

Quote:
God isn't supposed to be some rigid bastard with strict laws. He's supposed to love everyone, and if he imposed such a strict distinction between Jew, Christian and Muslim, I can safely say, most of the world's going to Hell, in which case, Satan's army looks pretty darned strong right now.
The only thing a person has to do is believe in Jesus Christ. How hard is that? If you don't believe in Jesus then YOU do not love God for you did not love the Son. God does love everyone, but don't forget his attribute of justice. The rule applies to everyone it does not change. Believe in Christ or you will perish.

Quote:
Salvation by grace means that a serial killer can go to Heaven just by accepting Jesus on his deathbed. It also means a virtous man goes to Hell if he does not accept Jesus. Where's the logic in that?
If a serial killer accepts Jesus Christ out of sincerity, again like I said above, not just to get on the good side of things when your time of death comes, then yes he will have eternal life. A man may be virtous, but if he does not love Jesus Christ then yeah he's going to hell. The standard has never changed though. The virtous man is trying to get into heaven by works, by his own strength, but the serial killer, if sincere, is taking part of God's grace and mercy. I mean look at the story of the two robbers who were crucified with Jesus. One realized what he did was wrong, the other wanted to use Jesus as some sort of way to be free and stay alive.

And now about the apocroypha which I believe you are speaking of. I'm not brainwashed, I actually have heard of it and it has been explained that there is no evidence that these were true Gospels. Some are totally far-fetched from the truth of Christianity that is why they were not canonized.

Also Christianity did have its roots in Judaism, but after Jesus Christ there is now a split. We do not believe in the same God. They believe the messiah has not come yet, Christians do. They believe they have to be good and do good works to get to heaven, Christians believe it is solely by grace and there is nothing we can do accept believe in Jesus Christ to attain salvation which is promised and guaranteed.

Praise God for his love and mercy!

~"For God so loved the world that He sent His One and only Son that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" -John 3: 16~
~"Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent" -John 17: 3~
#12  
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(17-Dec-2004 at 04:52)


Quote:
(Originally posted by LandofSerenity)

For the record the commandment does not say thou shall not kill. It says "Thou shall not murder" so that is one wrong point. Second, I never said someone who claimed to be a christian and murdered someone would go to heaven. I said in Christianity, meaning the true belief of Christianity, forgiveness of sins is assured, period if you ask for forgiveness and you are sincere. Because there are some who go and purposefully commit a sin and then try and get on God's "good side" by asking for forgiveness after they are done. That is not sincerity.
Forgiveness of sin is also assured in Islam. Every year, they celebrate something (in Malay, don't know what the English term is) called "Hari Raya". It is the time when they go around forgiving each other, and all past sins are washed away. Of course, you can't just commit a sin the day before and expect to get on Allah's good side by asking for forgiveness the next day.

It's the same concept among the two. Even without the festival, Muslims ask for forgiveness, always.

Quote:
Ok, so you are saying that even during a Jihad men who kill infidels are going to hell? Then why does it promise paradise? If you want suras to go along with this I'll be happy to get them for you.
That's the TERRORIST ideal, NOT ISLAM! There's also a group in Rwanda called The Lord's Liberation Army(a terrorist group), and they chop people's legs off for something as simple as riding a bicycle. Are they following the true Christian ideal? No. Of course, in the Bible, we see God killing sinners, but does that mean we're supposed to? No.

Jihad is internal conflict, NOT physical conflict. You're not supposed to go force Islam down other people's throats.

You go to Paradise if you DEFEND Allah's name to death(ie, believe to the end), not KILL IN HIS NAME. Islam also means "The Religion of Peace". It wouldn't have this name if it advocated murder in the name of a higher being.

Quote:
You're right they are not there for fun. They are there to show us how impure we are as human beings. There is absolutely no way a person can achieve perfection with those laws. Thus in the Old Testament if a law was broken then there had to be a sacrifice of blood for the atonement and redemption of sin. However, God sent Jesus Christ as the ultimate sacrfice of all sins. The blood was shed for all and so He is the atonement and redemption of our sins. This is the difference between Jews and Christians. Jews don't believe Jesus Christ as the Savior and Atonement of sin and Christians do.
See, when Jesus was sent down, He didn't say, "I'm here to start a new religion". In fact, there was no naming for the new religion. Thus, names hardly matter. It's intepretation that matters. Jews don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah, because their intepretation says so. Therefore, people who follow this intepretation are called Jews.

People who inteprete Jesus as the Messiah, are called Christians.

And people who inteprete that Jesus was no the son of God, and did not die on the cruxifix, are called Muslims.

The events that happened were as they are, it's up to us, humans, to either discard the events as rubbish, or accept it as truth.

Quote:
The only thing a person has to do is believe in Jesus Christ. How hard is that? If you don't believe in Jesus then YOU do not love God for you did not love the Son. God does love everyone, but don't forget his attribute of justice. The rule applies to everyone it does not change. Believe in Christ or you will perish.
Thank you for scaring away potential believers. Such ideals, although very biblical, are considered pretty Stalinist. Obey or die. Believe or die. They sound pretty darned similar. I hope Stalin wasn't as brilliant as God.

Quote:
If a serial killer accepts Jesus Christ out of sincerity, again like I said above, not just to get on the good side of things when your time of death comes, then yes he will have eternal life. A man may be virtous, but if he does not love Jesus Christ then yeah he's going to hell. The standard has never changed though. The virtous man is trying to get into heaven by works, by his own strength, but the serial killer, if sincere, is taking part of God's grace and mercy. I mean look at the story of the two robbers who were crucified with Jesus. One realized what he did was wrong, the other wanted to use Jesus as some sort of way to be free and stay alive.
If such a God existed, he'd be unworthy of me. Easy as that. See you in Hell then.

Quote:
And now about the apocroypha which I believe you are speaking of. I'm not brainwashed, I actually have heard of it and it has been explained that there is no evidence that these were true Gospels. Some are totally far-fetched from the truth of Christianity that is why they were not canonized.
And who decided what's to be included in the Bible? The Church. And who runs the Church? Humans. What are humans? Imperfect little beings who work mostly for their own gain.

Unless it was God who decided which books that were included in the Bible, we have no right to say the other Gospels are far-fetched.

And here's another thing. If the Gospel of St. Barnabas was far fetched, fine by me. However, someone mentioning the name of Muhammad 1500 years before Islam is just too much of a coincidence.

Quote:
Also Christianity did have its roots in Judaism, but after Jesus Christ there is now a split. We do not believe in the same God. They believe the messiah has not come yet, Christians do. They believe they have to be good and do good works to get to heaven, Christians believe it is solely by grace and there is nothing we can do accept believe in Jesus Christ to attain salvation which is promised and guaranteed.

Praise God for his love and mercy!
Salvation is promised at all religions. However, I see no evidence in any holy scripture that says Jesus was the son of God. I'm the Son of God. I call God my Heavenly Father. If I'm not the son of my father, then what am I to be called?

Religion is the mental disease of the masses.
"Once again, religion is like sniffing gasoline. Both cause permanant brain damage." -- Obsidian
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(17-Dec-2004 at 06:56)
Quote:
Islam also means "The Religion of Peace".
Wrong, Islam means "submission" in Arabic

Quote:
That's the TERRORIST ideal, NOT ISLAM!
Wrong, that is called fundamentalist Islam...they adhere to the teachings of the Qu'ran and the hadith.

Quote:
Forgiveness of sin is also assured in Islam. Every year, they celebrate something (in Malay, don't know what the English term is) called "Hari Raya". It is the time when they go around forgiving each other, and all past sins are washed away. Of course, you can't just commit a sin the day before and expect to get on Allah's good side by asking for forgiveness the next day.

It's the same concept among the two. Even without the festival, Muslims ask for forgiveness, always.
Difference, one goes around asking forgiveness from each other, but there is no guarantee of forgiveness from Allah. The other asks God for forgiveness and He grants it.

Quote:
Jihad is internal conflict, NOT physical conflict.
There is more then one type of Jihad...there is an internal one, but there is also a physical one.

Quote:
And people who inteprete that Jesus was no the son of God, and did not die on the cruxifix, are called Muslims.
Not only does Islam claim that Jesus did not die on the crucifix it claims that they killed Jesus. Funny they killed a man that even in the Qu'ran it claims that Jesus was a sinless man.

Quote:
Thank you for scaring away potential believers.
Well, the truth hurts sometimes I'm going to admit. I've had to swallow my pride more then once. If you're not willing to admit you're a sinner and that Jesus Christ died for your sins that's a pride issue and you condemn yourself...Christ does not.

Quote:
If such a God existed, he'd be unworthy of me. Easy as that. See you in Hell then.
No, you, me, everyone is unworthy of Him, I am totally unworthy of Him. We are all sinners, and I should definitely go to hell for the sins I have commited, but thanks be to God and Christ Jesus for God's mercy on me. You can attain the same grace it's open to everyone.

Quote:
And here's another thing. If the Gospel of St. Barnabas was far fetched, fine by me. However, someone mentioning the name of Muhammad 1500 years before Islam is just too much of a coincidence.
Ok I have heard of this Muhamadu thing and I can't find out of my notes where they talked about it, but the translation is wrong. Muslims have tried to use that, but it means something different. I also need to look up St. Barnabas because if I remember right that was something that came around in the 6th century Arabia, but I just need to read up on it again.

~"For God so loved the world that He sent His One and only Son that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" -John 3: 16~
~"Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent" -John 17: 3~
#14  
View Public Profile Find more posts by LandofSerenity Add LandofSerenity to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 724/898
(17-Dec-2004 at 10:59)


may i jump into the conversation?

for the record, i don't think different religious congregations worship only one God. i think they worship different images of God. i hope the difference is clear.

onto the posts.

Quote:
(Originally posted by LandofSerenity)

The only thing a person has to do is believe in Jesus Christ. How hard is that?
the difficulty is in proving that Jesus was a God, or if he did exist, for that matter. did you really think that by just telling people that when they die they will go to hell if they don't believe in Jesus, they will automatically be converted to Christianity? give more credit to humanity will you?

first, it has never been established that there is a hell.

second, it has never been established that there is a Satan.

third, it has never been established that there is a God.

savvy?

Quote:
If you don't believe in Jesus then YOU do not love God for you did not love the Son.
oh please. was he actually the Son? so Jews do not love God? in their devotion to praising God i say they sincerely and wholeheartedly do.

Quote:
God does love everyone, but don't forget his attribute of justice. The rule applies to everyone it does not change. Believe in Christ or you will perish.
ah yes. religious propaganda. there can never be anything more simple.

Quote:
And now about the apocroypha which I believe you are speaking of. I'm not brainwashed, I actually have heard of it and it has been explained that there is no evidence that these were true Gospels. Some are totally far-fetched from the truth of Christianity that is why they were not canonized.
forgive me, but as far as i know, the standards of the Church in choosing the Gospels are subjective. they have reasons for choosing these books, and believe me, it was not because they were enlightened and told by God to do so.

Quote:
Wrong, Islam means "submission" in Arabic
correct. but before any misinterpretations arise from this, it means, in context, complete submission to the will of the one God.

Quote:
Wrong, that is called fundamentalist Islam...they adhere to the teachings of the Qu'ran and the hadith.
no, they don't. International Muslim organizations condemn extremist or terrorist actions. it is not in accordance with the teachings of Islam.

Quote:
Well, the truth hurts sometimes I'm going to admit. I've had to swallow my pride more then once. If you're not willing to admit you're a sinner and that Jesus Christ died for your sins that's a pride issue and you condemn yourself...Christ does not.
the truth? you actually know "the" truth? who are you? God himself? try swallowing the other half of your pride. i don't think you're through it yet.

Quote:
No, you, me, everyone is unworthy of Him, I am totally unworthy of Him.
if all humans are unworthy of him, then no one can truly claim to know the one truth that only He knows. savvy?


forgive me for the harshness of language at some points, but "mere" humans claiming to know God or "the truth" is unbearably irritating for me.
#15  
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(Posted as Lord Drizzt)
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(17-Dec-2004 at 11:50)


Ravemaster, faith is when you believe in something you can't see. Keep that in mind. Proof never comes in words.

s o u l f i r e
#16  
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(User is Banned)
Posts: 2455/2492
(17-Dec-2004 at 16:07)


Quote:
(Originally posted by LandofSerenity)

Wrong, Islam means "submission" in Arabic
Okay, I'll try to confirm this with the local Islamic scholar when school reopents.

Quote:
Wrong, that is called fundamentalist Islam...they adhere to the teachings of the Qu'ran and the hadith.
There is a reason why my government, who is a Muslim government, condemn extremist Muslims. Because it's not in line with Islamic teachings.

One of the very foremost teaching any Muslim scholar will give you, is that you shall NOT kill, no matter what. The ONLY thing you can kill, is to kill for food(unless it's a pig or dog), and I highly doubt that the likes of bin Laden kill those "infidels" to eat.

Quote:
Difference, one goes around asking forgiveness from each other, but there is no guarantee of forgiveness from Allah. The other asks God for forgiveness and He grants it.
You misunderstood my phrasing. They go around asking forgiveness for each other. However, during that same festival, they go to mosques to ask for forgiveness from Allah. Whether or not Allah grants it, is another story.

The same concept applies to Christianity. You ask for forgiveness from God, however, whether God grants it or not, you don't know, unless He somehow sent a lightning bolt to carve the word "Okay" on your lawn.

Quote:
There is more then one type of Jihad...there is an internal one, but there is also a physical one.
Nope, there's only an internal one. Where on earth did you get such ridiculous info, is beyond me.

Quote:
Not only does Islam claim that Jesus did not die on the crucifix it claims that they killed Jesus. Funny they killed a man that even in the Qu'ran it claims that Jesus was a sinless man.
Who is "they"?

A sinless man does not equate to an immortal man. Jesus can die, in his human form.

Quote:
Well, the truth hurts sometimes I'm going to admit. I've had to swallow my pride more then once. If you're not willing to admit you're a sinner and that Jesus Christ died for your sins that's a pride issue and you condemn yourself...Christ does not.
Pride issue? Sorry, but the idea of a tyrannical God just does not appeal to me. Heck, I don't think it appeals the least bit to most of the unbelievers. You're only condemning God's name and the human race.

Quote:
No, you, me, everyone is unworthy of Him, I am totally unworthy of Him. We are all sinners, and I should definitely go to hell for the sins I have commited, but thanks be to God and Christ Jesus for God's mercy on me. You can attain the same grace it's open to everyone.
And yet, knowing this, you dare spout such religious propaganda? Believe or burn in Hell. Thank you, I'll take Hell anyday if you're right.

Quote:
Ok I have heard of this Muhamadu thing and I can't find out of my notes where they talked about it, but the translation is wrong. Muslims have tried to use that, but it means something different. I also need to look up St. Barnabas because if I remember right that was something that came around in the 6th century Arabia, but I just need to read up on it again.
If St. Barnabas came out at 6th century Arabie, I wonder how that guy managed to get a hold of the Bible, which was written in Armaic at that time(note, Christianity was established only 300 years after Jesus left the planet).

There's no denying that Muhammad means The Praised. I don't know how you're going to make it twist and turn, but there's just no denying it. I'll get back to you with a bunch of notes when school reopens(that's two weeks away, hope you're patient till then).

Quote:
(Originally posted by Lord Drizzt)

Ravemaster, faith is when you believe in something you can't see. Keep that in mind. Proof never comes in words.
While this MAY be true, I believe that the three religions are closely linked, and that they worship the same God. This isn't something I can't see. This is something you can see from the texts of the three holy scriptures.

Religion is the mental disease of the masses.
"Once again, religion is like sniffing gasoline. Both cause permanant brain damage." -- Obsidian
#17  
View Public Profile Find more posts by dothackRAVE Add dothackRAVE to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 4272/8194
(17-Dec-2004 at 16:28)
Quote:
(Originally posted by dothackRAVE)
-The Gospel of St. Barnabas clearly states, that when it was asked who would return to save the world, the answer was "His name is Muhammad". This Gospel was condemned three times by the Church, solely because it questioned Christian authority. Sounds pretty Stalinist of them to me.
Is it this gospel of St Barnabas you refer to? Only known from an Italian manuscript from the 16th century?
#18  
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Posts: 26/37
(17-Dec-2004 at 17:00)


Quote:
Okay, I'll try to confirm this with the local Islamic scholar when school reopents.
if i'm not mistaken, i think submission is the proper interpretation of Islam.

Quote:
There is a reason why my government, who is a Muslim government, condemn extremist Muslims. Because it's not in line with Islamic teachings.
yeap. they believe they can get 14 virgins o smth like that in Heaven when they commit suicide attacks. pfft. that sounds abit farfetched to me.

Quote:
One of the very foremost teaching any Muslim scholar will give you, is that you shall NOT kill, no matter what. The ONLY thing you can kill, is to kill for food(unless it's a pig or dog), and I highly doubt that the likes of bin Laden kill those "infidels" to eat.
its in my history book, the 4 conditions of war.
1. kill only if your holy place is under attack.
2. fight BACK. don't look for fights.
3. to oppose oppression
4. to defend youself.

just for kicks, there are 3 rules Muslims must adhere to in war.
1. no killing of weak ppl like old ppl childeren, unjured, human, and ppl that have surrendered.
2. don't fdestroy holy places.
3. don't kill animals and destroy palnts.

Quote:
While this MAY be true, I believe that the three religions are closely linked, and that they worship the same God. This isn't something I can't see. This is something you can see from the texts of the three holy scriptures.
they might be closely related... who knows. just pick one, stick with it, when the world ends, we'll see whos right. I believe in Jesus. however, there is parts of the Qu'ran that mentions about abraham and ismail and stuff. lazy to do research.

in reply to your initial post,
i will not say your psychotic. you can believe wad you believe. who's gonna force you to change. i think they were just defending their own beliefs when they called u erratic and stuff.

+++++Siggy starts here+++++
don't be fooled by my postcount. I read.
i have no idea how to make colours in my siggy. lil help mod?
#19  
View Public Profile Visit zarathos's homepage Find more posts by zarathos Add zarathos to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 244/287
(18-Dec-2004 at 07:18)
Ok so read this interesting article on the Gospel of St. Barnabas. Read the whole thing.

Gospel of St. Barnabas

I do not claim to be an expert on this so I just decided to look it up.

Quote:
Okay, I'll try to confirm this with the local Islamic scholar when school reopents.
Better yet ask an arabic speaking islamic scholar not one who claims to know arabic.

Quote:
One of the very foremost teaching any Muslim scholar will give you, is that you shall NOT kill, no matter what. The ONLY thing you can kill, is to kill for food(unless it's a pig or dog), and I highly doubt that the likes of bin Laden kill those "infidels" to eat.
Ok so you have heard one side of the Qu'ran and that side is Sura 2:256, "let there be no compulsion in religion." Muhammad, realizing that he could sieze power in Mecca, first broke a 10-year treaty and then gave the order in Sura 9:5, "kill those who join other gods." I highly doubt that the likes of Muhammad killed "those who join other gods" to eat.

Now I'm not bringing this stuff out here to argue with you. I'm not going to do it anymore. I just want to show you that I am not as ignorant as you may think I am. I could keep going, but then I would start to look as if I'm making myself to be arrogant and I have no intention of that.

Now that I have shown you at least one sura that says to kill other people just for the sake of their religion and on top of that a contradiction between two suras, and you know as well as I do that the Qu'ran claims absolutely no contradictions I just ask that you hear me out.

I have no power to condemn you to hell, and I would not and will not do that. I deserve hell, I have sinned greatly against God. I have been caught in more sins then you could probably imagine of me right now. I do not claim to be sinless and I do not claim to judge. "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Romans 3:23. I know you are intelligent and I know you know what the defintion of sin is. So...Allah hates sinners, yet God (in christianity) knew that we were all sinners and STILL sent His Son to die for us. Now all a person has to do is believe that Jesus Christ died for our sins and it is 100% guaranteed because the Bible, the word of God, says so and that my friend is a lightning bolt.

However, now you have even said you have no guarantee, so then why strive to attain something that you do not even know you can have? Why not go for something that is promised and true?

You say God is sadistic, so that makes Allah infinitely worse. If he hates sinners then he hates you, period.

Amen to the promise of salvation from God
Amen to the fulfillment of salvation by Jesus Christ
Amen to truth

~"For God so loved the world that He sent His One and only Son that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" -John 3: 16~
~"Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent" -John 17: 3~
#20  
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