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Posts: 738/904
(28-Feb-2007 at 18:48)

Started playing this game junior year of high school. Kid sitting next to me in my Internet/HTML class was playing it, it looked like my sort of thing, so I signed on up. This was probably a little better than 2 RL years ago. Still playing, havent stopped at any point.

At first I was a noob and a half. I ran a draft of 29% or so, and wondered why my province was so weak, because ofc this is a pretty high rate in real life. I landed in a GHETTOO!!!! and within days got elected monarch. Ofc I had no idea what to do. I was promptly deleted actually because of multiing, which I did because it was a sweet game and one prov just wasnt enough for me.

Start of the next age I roll an elf mystic supermage. 40% draft, 7 wpa, no thieves at all, it was good. By the end of the age, I was monarch again. Still didnt know how to play the game, but I was crafty enough to get the leading candidate to delete after the current king stepped down. I stuck with this kingdom a few ages, helped it become a halfway-decent warring kingdom. Eventually grew bored of them, and deleted at the end of the age.

And I landed where I am now. I was king again within a month. Good enough kingdom, we'll finish 3-1 in wars this age. I'm happy here. We're usually about the top 1/3 in nw, not much higher.

I just play for the gameplay, for the warring. I dont really know the people in my kingdom, but I like interacting with them. I enjoy being monarch because it adds more strategy to my experience - I get to direct everyone's efforts in war, etc. Attacking, thieving, maging, its all good. Good game.

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin
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Posts: 4/4
(28-Feb-2007 at 21:04)
yo Peppie, try #RO or #fratzia perhaps. mebbe they got some interesting stories and thoughts for you
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Posts: 182/206
(28-Feb-2007 at 22:54)
Re: Utopia Thesis: Please post your stories and thoughts

Originally Posted by Ironballs: View Post
People only ever banded together to take someone down when there was something in it for them. Zea was a joke as far as I can tell that operated at the lowest levels with minimal success.
pshaw, serenity helped zea back when i was a leader there ;x

I never really acted differently towards people after i met them in person -- they were always close friends in the game before i met them, and stayed that way.

I recall playing both planetarion and archmage. Utopia was more interpersonal -- there was a lot more communication within your group -- i recall planetarion having something like a kingdom, though of smaller numbers -- and within other people in the game in utopia, and i think that that made it easier for me to play utopia.

/shrug. i have plenty of stories, you can hit me up on irc if i have a better idea of what exactly you're looking for. i always found it amusing that i was fairly anti-alliance and an alliance leader for like 12 ages.

In an effort to make Zauper look cool I have edited his sig -SaSi
halp wats a SaSi?
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Posts: 1064/1096
(01-Mar-2007 at 01:32)
Re: Utopia Thesis: Please post your stories and thoughts

Originally Posted by Zauper: View Post
pshaw, serenity helped zea back when i was a leader there ;x
That's where I met my Zauper!

First of all, I want to say that this is awesome, Peppo, truly awesome. Best of luck on it.

Utopia is a grand social experiment, as Mehul liked to say, and I think we can agree that the artificial world that has been generated by this game is crazy addictive. I'm certainly more then happy to share any experiences you might want, or even to act as a sort of assistant to you to help you manage this endeavor.


'twas naught but a dream
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(Posted as Saint Low)
Posts: 63/80
(01-Mar-2007 at 02:59)
Yoo.. just a little story..i donno if you can use it, but i am writing it anyway.
i have a drink, music and a smoke..so why not

The first time i saw utopia was my first week at highschool, a few guys
from a class higher showed me some pages in a break, black pages
with text.. html sites and they were talking with a typical utopia tongue.
they 'tested' the beta, i didn't even know what a beta was. well anyway..
i was not impressed by the '96 design of utopia.

Like a year later or so my little bro got home and he brought me something..
a paper with a link to a game we got recommended by one of my bro's friends...
it was Utopia.

But this time no nerds lol, but my brother and stepmom..
we agreed to learn it together and to explore the game..
looking back we were total newbies.

But in time, we were discussing tactics at dinner.. chatting all day,
80% by msn, 20% by nerd-talk from room to room lol..
and even later we invited friends, neigbors and kids from school.
they got over and my stepmum asked them about activity and
following orders.. it was becoming a bit freaky, freaky.
but still nubish and it was good fun.

All the friends who came in.. sorta..destroyed the fantasy of utopia i still had..
the fact it's international based and not national and..doing dutch in an english
game was really confusing lol after a while i gave up and gave her the account,
couldn't find the old spirit the so called "newbie feeling".

I must have created dozen accounts.. and defected like 15 times int hat period..
couldn't find my place, but still the game had me in it's power.
I came to the Dragon Riders KD..where i stayed for 5 ages,
my numbers were better then ever and morale/motivation was high..
it gives energy when you feel home with people you trust. But after 5 ages..
the KD started to fall aprt.. we had 2 monarch changes and several munities..
i was homeless again. I defected some more..and i met some very cool people.
people who are still with me in my current group.

In that search for a 'home' i got to AoV, a small alliance who never
really got off the ground.. it merged to become SF.

In that same time i landed into a KD the Saints..some of you may recall them.
And after 2 ages i took over and it's going great.. have been with them for 7 ages now.
and i certainly found my home cause it got me started with banners and other 2D stuff.
After some ages working under the SF tag i began to see minor flaws in their system,
who a bit later became major flaws..i started to write entire philosophies
on how to make a decent system but even more important,
how to keep them going! in a fair timespend,
dozens of docs and notes.. in the train, at home,
on bed and later on on my mac. School suffered ofc
and my girl at that time wasn't happy..at all.
As i have read above, utopia/girls is no good combo.

I learned a lot and i began writing short overviews..
i had to , cause i had to draw conclusions and there is
were i founded 'gameplay per time', for example,
also seen as a blance of input versus it's output,
and simplicity IS the way to go...more focus, stable and easy to
understand and follow. i can't think of anything so powerful in the
word of communication and that brought me even closer to my
favorite dude Steve Jobs who believes in Zen..
and Apple that is also based on simplicity (i knew that ofc..
but didn't know what/how/why ect.

So i started a little group based on the idea and the group merged
and later on became known as NeXT,
doing this all i leaned on how to motvate people to get them crazy enough to follow me
lol keep them together.. but also making websites, movies, banners, logo's, speeches,
leading councils and playing the manager around lol.. i also experienced a death
of one of my kdmembers called Matthew.. he and i were no buddies,
but more like.. brothers who always fight eachother but with a brothers respect,
his death (he ws 26) made me cry like a damn baby,
while i have never ever shaked his hand.

As i say on home of Saints,
i have learned a lot in here.. and i even dare to say, more then on school.

I now use a lot of the writings and NeXT's Philosophy in my Art & Design company
(i prefer to call it a community/group)..and without this game i wouldn't be where
i am standing now. Utopia gives me a stable feeling,
a place to withdraw from other things and to take another dive into the world of
organization. You can't say 'Ya or Yo' on an official business add,
but you CAN on an utopian :P if ya know what i mean.
and btw it's my startpage for 3 years now and i can't imagine hw it is without it

Friendships and teamwork, funny and interesting convo's,
the fact when i leave others will follow are the things who keep me here.
The game itself is a world's shame for design..so is this site i think.
but both aren't focused on design.. you go play WoW if ya want graphics :P

WoW = 10 weeks for lvl70.. 10 weeks for perfectioning yourself = 20 weeks
Utopia = 5 ages ( 40 weeks) before you have a non-cheat solid
active experienced team to build on..and then you aren't there yet!

Anyhow lol..

I can continue for a while.. but in the end, we are just a bunch of
players who seek satisfaction and who are stuck in a game, once so grand, today so totally outdated..

Just my 2 cents hehe thanks for having me..

Daan a.k.a Lowlow

Last edited by Saint Low, 01-Mar-2007 at 03:09.
Edit reason: some correction slol.. probably a lot more.. but i am tired
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Posts: 10/11
(01-Mar-2007 at 03:33)
I made sure I didn't read above posts... so I know what I type comes 100% from me.. and isn't influenced by others...

I play games to win em.. always have... I first started this game cause my sis told me bout it.. she played it for 2 weeks.. I took over.. and never seem to lost touch with it...

I want to grow big, become strong and show off bout it... I have a fun kd with 25 people around me who're decent players and good mates.. makin us the top ranked nw kd this very age... I like to be able to tell people that I game.. But I game in top with the best... (makes me feel succeeded)

I also play this game to escape from all the RL fuzz.. durin exams etc.. utopia is the way to distract me.. perhaps 2 much.. but still It gets me trough my rough moments.. after a while the kd becomes family.. you login to a new world.. I have a good RL life... but utopia gives the edge.. to excell to be the best, to be the top.. to be smth...

I learned a lot of skills in topia that I use in Rl as well.. I study psychology.. and utopia seems to be 95% psychology in my opinion as well.. I'm sure I won atleast 2-3 extra wars due to that factor///

Utopia is my lifestyle.. till I find something in RL that excites me more then this silly game

If somebody says, I'm to fat, then I probably am, so don't say I'm fat!
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Posts: 229/233
(01-Mar-2007 at 03:51)

People will also recall RUST (anti-IRON) and maybe the people banding together against HaLL and (?) CSB on WoL a few years back
There was no CSB, it was simply HaLL vs the server, they called themself AHU(Anti HaLL Coalition). This was age 24(?) i think the age when Ravenant returned to HaLL.

People only ever banded together to take someone down when there was something in it for them.
Ironballs is basically right in his affirmation. People band together to take down someone from the chart so they can replace them.
In that age HaLL had on WoL the #1 and #2 kd's on server and a few other in the chart and the AHU reason for declaring and trying to destroy HaLL was basically the accusation of bottomfeed. I say we had nobody else who we could hit cuz at that point we controlled most of the provs in the chart so there's a reasonable anwser but anyone is entitled to their own opinion i guess.
The AHU coalition failed to destroy HaLL and HaLL still ended up having #1 kd on server and many other kd's/provs in the chart. If i recall exactly AHU was formed by:TR, HaJ,SoS(Seal of Solomon kd not the SoS alliance)Criminal Zoo, Pokemons and other varios kd's ...

I'm not familiar with this thesis but i don't know how it is supposed to be neutral from a point of view considering Peppie is a well knowed HaLL hater and racist(he hates romanians) and this is the things i know about... he probably hates many other things.
But hey, don't mind me, i don't care much i just posted here since i noticed HaLL was mixed into this subject.

Retired 13th Council of HaLL™
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Posts: 4/5
(01-Mar-2007 at 05:15)
wow...ask and you shall receive, man.

i'll prolly post something in the next two or three days if you are still taking them, been around for almost 6 years now, and i'll try to give you the best recounting i can...might take some time.
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Posts: 1067/1675
(01-Mar-2007 at 09:13)

Re: Utopia Thesis: Please post your stories and thoughts

Originally Posted by Waff: View Post
There was no CSB, it was simply HaLL vs the server, they called themself AHU(Anti HaLL Coalition). This was age 24(?) i think the age when Ravenant returned to HaLL.
I know CSB wasn't included in the AHU effort, but I think there had been a separate anti-CSB campaign on WoL at some point. I was playing BF at the time so I didn't pay any notice.

You make an interesting point by stating that people will never join an 'anti-something' endeavour unless there's something in it for them, i.e. higher rankings for themselves. Since my main guiding question is "How does cooperation exist within Utopia?" player motivation for engaging in cooperative game play is a relevant part. If there are any people here who've cooperated in taking down some alliance or player, can you state your motivations? Was it greed, or principles, or killing boredom, or what?

Thanks to everyone so far! And please keep posting, it will be useful throughout the writing process!

"Observers worldwide have been expressing great pity for the people of Gaza [...] This pity may be a natural emotional reaction, yet it is unethical and immoral." - Adi Dvir, Ynetnews editor
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Posts: 1/8
(01-Mar-2007 at 09:44)
I started Utopia when I was 12 or 13 years old. I was checking out random websites and one had an ad with the "top internet gaming sites" with Utopia being ranked in the first spot. I joined not know what to do about anything and I landed in an SKD. I was such an idiot about the game they figured I was someones farm account that was posting pretending I was so dumb. I understand now why it happened because I think ive done it a couple times LMAO!

Anyhow, the next account I made I landed in a total ghetto, but I made a couple friends that were both about my young age too so they kept me going for about 3 ages, I never made it past 300K NW. Then they both quit so I defected into a semi-good KD which I eventually became monarch of after two ages. I had a lot of actually good players, new but good join my kingdom through defections and created accounts. I considered this to be my real first Kingdom. We had a "War Council" on MSN and everything lol. These people became close friends of mine in actuality, though we never actually met. In fact, one of these members (Some of you know him as BrotherCat) and I have kept in contact even after the KD split up for years. When I was hospitalized because of a 3rd degree burn I made a 50 dollar collect call to his house, of which he picked up the bill (haha, love ya buddy ;p). Before he became a player in top kingdoms, we knew him as DAD because he was the oldest person in the KD.

Anyhow, our kingdom lasted around 5 ages, which were actually semi-succesful (usually around 3-4 war wins, charts a few times) I had made top networth charts every age, and top 5 honor a few also. When DAD left the kingdom he joined a kingdom known as "The Munchies". When I decided to ultimately leave he invited me along with a few of the others to join as well. I was in the munchies for 3 ages, actually ended up as monarch of for an age. Munchies ultimately disbanded, all of the main players quit and whichever kingdom was previously the munchies we'll never know.

I proceeded to join random ghettos and just grow lol. I finished over a million networth every age for roughly 15 ages and took top elf NW one age, 2nd honor world one, and 2nd orc nw another. Through connections I met because of BrotherCat I babysat for accounts in top kingdoms all the time. Sometimes id basically run an account for half an age or more.

I then joined the kingdom of Evil Intentions of which I stayed for 4 ages. I was hospitalized in a car accident and couldnt sign on for a while, they didnt believe me even after I showed them pics of my destroyed car and me in my hospital bed. I still hate these guys for it. Yeah its over the net and its just a game but to deny me being there because I was in a life or death situation in RL is just cold. I WAS ON LIFE SUPPORT FOR A WEEK YOU FKING WHORES!

I quit for a while and then made an account in a random KD. We got in an argument and I defected, they kept hitting me and convinced my new KD to hit me so I defected again. The KD I landed in was bigger than my previous two and took my side attacking them back. They werent quite as experienced as I was so I ended up being a leading role in the kingdom and then eventually took monarchy. These people now are some of my best friends. I swear to god I have a crush on one of them lmao, shes so sexy and shes so nice. We talk all the time, we're actually planning on meeting. I dont know if a long lasting relationship may even form because of this game but hey, I'm gonna try.

I plan to be in this kingdom until the game quits or until everyone else does lol, but even after Utopia is long gone, ill still have friendships and maybe more because of it.

I want to personally thank Mehul Patel for the creation of this game. As much as everyone complains about the things he does it has been a big part of my life through adolesence. Its given me an easier way to cope with childhood dilemmas (divorce, separation) by giving me friends that ive never actually met. I dono, its easier to talk to them when they aint in person I think

Edit: Good luck on this Peppie , make sure you uh, take a quote or somethin out of mine

Last edited by MaxStrad, 01-Mar-2007 at 09:45.
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Posts: 25/25
(01-Mar-2007 at 13:25)
why do i play utopia? honestly because its the most addicting online game I have ever played simple as that. I started in grade 7 which was about 8-9 years ago. Played in this one Hall kd Ronny of Hall or w/e for most of my utopian career. All this talk bout Hall reminds me of what happened in that kd first off me and another player wanted to change monarchs because ours was inactive and noobish. So we got our co-monarch to agree to being the new one while our current one was on holidays. The current one came back and bitched and moaned and ofc our co-monarch turned on us fucker. So me and Spin (the other player) we were both elves (all i knew how to play at the time) decided well if their going to tell us we have to defect then we'll leave with a bang. The monarch gave us 3 days to defect before Hall would gb us so being the leet t/ms we were we dropped our monarch down over 250k nw with waves of ops. Ofc Hall gbd us but hell it was worth it. After that we joined one of Halls Flapship kds known as Nightmares Of Hall which left the age we joined . After that kd i played in eX Heroes Xe had some good players like Top Wolf River Z our monarch wasnt the greatest but w/e monarch is only 1 person kingdoms are made up of 25 players. This was the eXodus/abs vs KLA/echo war (i think thats the sides) good age fun wars With BloodStone KLA (at the time) gg guys. Bounced around abit after then met up with HATUK (funniest fucker ever) and now I bounce around sick of the YOU HAVE TO BE UP WHEN YOUR MIL IS HOME bs in top kds. i play for w/e my kd plays for when i land there at the beginning of the age

and thats why i play because im addicted utopia is a drug and kids not all drugs are bad :P
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Posts: 4543/4986
(01-Mar-2007 at 13:45)

we were both elves (all i knew how to play at the time)
Heh yeah, Elf has always been easy.
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Posts: 1/3
(01-Mar-2007 at 16:49)
My Utopian POV

I believe the 'hook' if you will, of Utopia is the same thing that made Parker Bros. hit game "Monopoly" such a timeless success early in the last century. It, like Utopia allows players to emerge themselves into a fantasy world in which they control their own make-believe empire of wealth and success.

I found the game by chance several years ago and was intrigued by the 'advertiser supported' free-play concept because I am in the advertising business. I was almost instantly hooked in the same way many new players are by the almost universal appeal of the game and the interaction with other players. While the game could unquestionably be dubbed a huge success for Swirve, its' creators are apparently content to focus primarily on the ad-revenue aspects. Even though minor changes are made to the mechanics each age they are merely cosmetic and do not develop the actual 'game concept' any further.

I believe this to be the main cause of the decline in numbers of players the last few years and further believe that it will ultimately lead to the erosion of advertising revenue and the possible demise of the game entirely.

It is my opinion that Utopia should evolve. Utopia deserves at least a chance to compete with the more mainstream genre of titles such as Warcraft, Star Wars and Second Life. It's fans are almost begging it to. At the very least it needs a major upgrade to address systemic abuses, player retention and increase usage. I offered the below "thoughts" a few months ago in the main forums. It was quickly deleted. Perhaps it will be of some value here.

Utopia 2.0 Age of Nations

In a world where no order exists, where chaos and conflict reign, can one person make the difference? Can you battle for a place among your fellow provinces, serving the realm, forging friendships, fighting for your very life? Can you rise to become monarch of your own kingdom and lead them with valor to honor in war? Can you then join a world wide conflict of enormous proportion and consequences as a member state of your island continent? Do you have what it takes to make the difference? Can you rule, the world?

Starting with just a few acres and a meager supply of resources, you will meet and interact with players around the world as you build your province. You will be inexorably drawn to combat forces from all sides to help bring stability and order to the land. Rising through the ranks, you may become monarch and lead your kingdom to even greater glory. With the monarchy comes representation of your kingdom on the Continental Council of Kings, a loose alliance of member states located on your same island continent. It is here where and even bigger battle for control of the Utopian world as you know it will play out. The mother of all medieval conflicts is the battle for total supremacy of Utopia.

Join us in the World of Utopia where thousands of players experience the world's most popular and addictive interactive multiplayer game. Utopia is a medieval fantasy game played on the web directly through your browser. No downloads necessary and it is absolutely free. So, join now and get involved in one of the most unique and exciting experiences on the internet. Sign up is easy and the Utopian Lords stand waiting to grant you land, gold and a quest. Defy the odds. Defy the gods! RULE THE WORLD.


Similar game structure as Utopia 1.0
Similar kingdom system
Similar Combat/War system
Similar economic dynamics


Extended Age Length - Twice as long as standard age.

Enhanced Diplomacy - Send diplomats as you would thieves to stop hostilities and prevent an unjust war. Or establish trade with other provinces to increase income.

Enhanced Kingdom management - Real roles with bonuses of gold, land or battle speed for Pages, Court Officials and Generals.

Island Council Forum for Monarchs - Forge an island alliance, deal with the hold-out and loner kingdoms, establish order to earn a civilization bonus for all! Declare war on foreign invaders to your island.

High King of Utopia - Find your place among the powerful and invoke the ancient rite of Shogun. It's world war for the title of HIGH KING of UTOPIA!

- Coming to the Genesis Server March 07 -


Best of luck with your thesis!
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Posts: 1/1
(01-Mar-2007 at 17:08)
Re: Utopia Thesis: Please post your stories and thoughts

Originally Posted by Peppie: View Post

I hope this is the best place to post this thread.

The coming months I will be writing my Master thesis about Utopia. I've already submitted this thesis proposal, and it has been approved. What I would like to use this thread for is to probe the minds of my fellow players.

I am interested in Utopian stories and anecdotes, in statements that describe why and how you play this game, recounting what you feel were big Utopian events and so on. I'm interested in both alliance, kingdom and province accounts.

In the near future I will start doing ethnographic research (that's 1337speak for interviews) with random Utopians, but a brainstorm thread like this one can help me in asking the right questions and maybe point me at or remind me of Utopian stuff that I had forgotten or not realized before.

Please use this thread however you'd like. The key themes are nostalgic stories about the game, reasons for your playing and musings about Utopia and its significance in your/people's lives in general. If you want to back up your posts with official research, then you can read up on MMOG literature via the links section on this blog. You don't have to though; I'm perfectly happy with a spam thread filled with Utopian stories and historical accounts.

Thanks for your input!
let me think a while when and why i get started of this games..umm,yeah..it my best friend..while im in secondary school,he was introduce utopia to me..i know nothing for the 1st time i played..im totally shit noob..but i trying to learn to play this games..yeah,it fun..:P

well,i always i droped in a organized kd and with gratz player(active)...
b4 this ,i stayed with lot of alliance kd like Hellspawn,Imortal,KLA ,NI and FREEEEE..:P

And now i trying to get organized my OWN KD..but it hard when u and the ONLY do all the all stuff while others keep inactive/disobey order /newbies...but im slowly sort the problems..And now here im am:P
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Posts: 82/92
(01-Mar-2007 at 17:17)

i started playing like 4 years ago >.< cant remember when . . . been on and of a few times mostly becoz i move around the country too damn much >.< . . .

i saw a friend playing it, and he was playing it since beta . . . he never was good at english so after a few years of playing he's still such a newb who cant teach me much lol . . . i read a lot of guides om UT forums mostly coz i was never good at math >.< i hated it . . .

from what i read most ppl landed on a ghetto and work their way up etc... i was never on a great KD (until now . . . well we're still kinda ghetto but atleast they are nooblars i know and love) . . . really learn my way through the game while playing genesis coz all my KDs at WOL or BF just keep razing me ahahahha . . . at the time i cant figure up why . . . UR SUPPOSE TO LOG IN ONCE A DAY!!! i thot >.< and most ppl just cant care enuff . . .

i got kinda big for a total idiot at gen, and began realizing stuff i cant see being small :P . . .

i randomed in some UC KD one time and i really thot i found my place there . . . but ofc the KD collapsed but i found my first alliance
found my real utopian friends there . . . mostly coz my country doesnt have many players and most are too lazy to learn fuckin english so i cant teach my RL friends . . .

my utopian experience was really about making friends with ppl from the outside world and learning how the world works outside my country from their pov . . . i still keep contact with my old monarchs and knowing i have friends all over the world makes me feel good...

being in a defensive alliance also teach me alot about diplomacy and how to react to ppl . . . plus there are things online i just cant do in RL :P

loggging in to my nublar province and chat with my friends in irc really makes my day sometimes . . . mostly coz sometimes RL suxxors and hitting ppl in game can get u a really good feeling inside playing in a mediocre KD u really get how life goes . . . u get bullied sometimes u bully ppl sometimes u get to feel defeat and taste the sweet feel of victory . . .

but the reason i play now is for my friends . . . and getting online with my schedule is really teaching me alot about responsibilities and setting up my priorities . . .

im dead ::LoL::

former UC's front line... that means i dont die first
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Posts: 1/3
(01-Mar-2007 at 17:18)
I've been playing Utopia since the time of boats. I honestly don't remember what age that was, but as I understand it, it was rather early in the game. I KNOW I've been playing for at least 7 years though. My brother got me playing when I was 23 and I'm 31 now.

For me, because I've been playing so long, the actual ages just seem to blur in my memory, but I can link them to real life things. I know in my 3rd age, I was killed off by my KD because I had a miscarriage and was in the hospital without a way to let them know what was going on. After I was killed off I made another prov and landed in a KD I stayed with for 6 ages. I met some good people there but one in particular, SHADOW, became a good friend. We never met in RL but chatted for HOURS at a time. Out of everyone I've met in Utopia, I miss him the most. The people I have met here have supported me through many times in my life ... when my son was born with a heart defect, through the death of family members, the birth of my other son, parents in and out of the hospital, cancer scares, the creation of my company ... good or bad, I know I can always come here and my KD-mates will be supportive.

I've never been big on alliances and I know people LOVE alliances in this game. However, in my experiences, alliances were for merely destroying a prov that randomly hit you. True they help in wars, but it's just not right to GB a KD in war. Just my opinion and I'm sure others will have their own opinions of alliances.

While I strive to be the best in my KD, I never strive to be the best in the game. I try to stay with my KD in land and NW to make the bet of it. Wars are more fun than just being an explorer, so I've just resigned myself to ending the age between 2500 ac's and 3500 ac's. I've noticed that in the past few years, KD-wide strats have dropped off, while "lone wolf" strats have severly increased. It's hard to get a KD going in the same direction while everyone is concerned about doing their own thing. Either that or I've just randomed into nasty ghettos. It seems that "all" top KD's want provs to use mIRC or some other chat channel. Personally, I DESPISE being told to use a chat channel. Everything I have to say can be said in the forums or posted in PIMP. (Which is also hard to get people to use until they've given PIMP a chance for a few ages.)

I play Utopia because it's addicting. Sometimes I'm really into the game itself, sometimes I'm into the people in the KD (even if we're having a bad age), sometimes it's simply the intra-KD arguing that keeps me logging in 10 times a day. LOL I've tried hard to break my addiction and at least swap utopia for another game, but despite the poor graphics (which I prefer because it's not as interesting to my kids), I cannot find another game like this. I've tried Earth 2020 and just don't like it at all. Utopia just suits me.

I hope that helps your thesis! (I read the outline of your thesis and it sounds pretty good so far! Good luck and be sure to keep us updated on your progress and such on it!)
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Posts: 889/1022
Donated $1.20
(01-Mar-2007 at 17:35)

Oh wow, give me a chance to talk on about Utopia and i will. I'm really that weak for nostalgia.

I think it was age 17 when i first started (Late 2003?). It was midway through the age, and god was i hooked. When i actually first saw the game (my friend had logged on from my house) i wasn't impressed. Numbered and text. Wow, how enticing. Ironically, it really was. One day i got bored just browsing online and the url popped into my head. So i tried setting up an account on WoL, but it was full. So i tried BF, and landed in my first, last and only kingdom. And like i said, i was hooked. I wasn't actually the ultimate noob, i knew i didn't know much about the game and wasn't ashamed to say it every chance i got. Thankfully, my kingdom was incredibly selfless and took my hand to lead me down the long road to being only relatively inexperienced (i may not have been the ultimate noob, but i was definitely a slow learner; i finished my first age at 70k networth!)
Then one of the best people in the world sat me down on ICQ and explained everything. I really wish i still had the logs, because i don't remember the stupidity of my own questions, but after that conversation i knew this was the game for me. And more importantly, i had some idea what i was doing.

With your question, co-operation exists within Utopia because it has to. Because of the team-based nature of the game, co-operating with your kingdom and your friends in other kingdoms is vital not only to the wellbeing of your handful of acres, but much more so, to actually enjoying the game. No matter what the stories i read here say, they are all about the joy of finding people with whom you get on and with whom you enjoy the game, because you co-operate with them, you learn from them (and vice-versa) and in time you befriend them. Co-operation is important not only because it leads to rising in the charts, but because it makes the game fun to play. Mehul wants this game to be a social place, where sure, people have fun by hitting charts and achieving personal bests, but the main goal is to meet new people and make new friends.

I'd never have the guts to meet the people i play with. I've been invited to send mail and even go visit my king, who has met a few people that he met through the game, but the flights to America are prohibitively expensive to a college student like me, and besides, i really wouldn't have the courage. But i do feel like i know a few of the people in my kingdom, and that makes it all more fun. I know their jobs, i know their likes and dislikes and i know what some of them look like. And i like that.

I'll finish with one flaw in Utopia. And it's not that it's dying, or the lack of graphics or anything like it. I don't actually mind that it hasn't changed that much visually or conceptually. The problem is this game is dangerously addictive. I can't help it. I have a very strong habit-forming urge, and even on days when i have a million other things to do, i'll login to Utopia instead. Because of it, i'm persistently late for work, because of it i missed huge chunks of practicals and other basics in first year, and now i'm in third year and i have no idea how to code in Java, Unix or C like i'm supposed to be able to do. Just getting Eclipse running is a task! And this is not all Utopia's fault, because i had the choice and i chose games.swirve.com/utopia. But i'm 22 now, and looking at leaving college after 5 years "studying" for a 3 year course. And partly because Utopia is so damnably addictive.

Anyway Peppie, good luck with the thesis. I'm pretty sure none of mine will help you, but i'm glad i got the chance.

Noble Lady Sarak ~~ King Was Throne Away
The most extragant idea that a politican can have is to believe that it is enough for a people to march into a foreign country, for that country to adopt its laws and constitution. No-one likes armed missionaries; and nature and prudence both teach us to repel armed missionaries as enemies.
~ Maximilien Robespierre; January 1792
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Posts: 1/2
(01-Mar-2007 at 18:03)
I've been playing utopia for 4-5 years now.

I guess the main reason I still play utopia is because I loving gaming, programming, mathematics and writing and oddly enough, the game appeal to all those hobbies.

First, I get to make those long posts in the KD forums where there is always some kind of debate about what direction the kingdom should take and I love debating my views as long as such thing are done in an enlightened manner (where ideas are actually debated).

Secondly, I find myself using some mathematical concepts to try to optimise my province and our KD strat. Even better, the fact that the gaming rules get changed on a regular basis means that this is a neverending procress which requires a high level of adaptibility. I know that a lot of people complain when changes are announced, but personally, I relish the opportunity to further analyse what strat will be viable in light of those changes.

Thirdly, I actually like to deal with my fellow human beings with all their strenghts and shortcomings. Be it to motivate my KD mates to give their best or to negotiate with representatives of another kingdom. The challenge is even greater due to the fact that people from vastly different backgrounds play the game and thus have differing motivations, but given that this is a real life reality as well, it is worthwhile to spend the time learning to deal with such a problematic.

Originally, I found that I obsessed a bit too much about the game and reaching the charts and as a result almost quit the game once or twice. In time, I realised that it might not be the best thing in the world to try forcing 25 people or so to attack 3 times a day (its not reasonable given that this is afterall a game). Its nice to be in the charts, but frankly, the journey matters more than the end result. As long as we do our best given our RL circumstances and meet some basic reasonable standart, its enough (and frankly, we get more victories than defeats anyways).

Of further note, I love the people in my WoL KD (which is the reason I still play in WoL), but if ever our KD collapses one day, I'll probably quit WoL and just play in Genesis for the thrill of trying to make the best of a newly patched KD each age.

Overall, I'd say I learned a great deal about temperance, objectivity, moderation and the needed balance between efficienty and human understanding. I am definitely a better person for having played this game.

I'd also like to take this opportunity to thank Mehul for creating the game. I'm sure he takes his fair share of abuse from discontent people, but it was a worthwhile endeavor. You can learn a lot from this game if you approach it with an open mind and stick with it.

PS: My native language is French, so sorry if I still make the occasional obvious mistake in English.
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Posts: 1068/1675
(01-Mar-2007 at 18:26)

Thanks for your stories!

(Sarak, the question was not *why* cooperation exists but *how*. Nonetheless, your post is very insightful!)

In my studies I've been reading a lot of literature concerning Massive Multiplayer Online Games (MMOGs) and they're generally about EverQuest, World of Warcraft, Ultima Online and so forth. Other texts are about textbased MUDs; things like LambdaMOO. These games typically have the player control a character. You always start out alone, and then find your way in the world, and eventually you may CHOOSE to join a guild/clan/whatever. Utopia is unique in the way that it injects you into a "guild" from the outset; it's not a player's choice. You're forced to cooperate, and yet I think the concept of 'free cooperation' is still applicable, since one can always choose to defect (or indeed, not to play at all).

A major peculiarity is Swirve's rule that you don't get to choose whom you play with. In other online games, players choose their guilds (family guilds, elite guilds) and/or choose to play with real life friends, family or workmates. One of the points I will try to make in my thesis is that this social function (of playing games with people close to you in order to maintain ties) is so strong that people who'd ordinarily not break rules in a game will resort to trading in Utopia.

There's also this weird relationship between player-province-kingdom-alliance. I've read nothing in other MMOGs about true self-sacrifice, players 'taking one for the team'. In Utopia, the province you've created over the space of several months can get decimated in less than two days in certain fierce wars, regardless of your skill. However (especially in the more skilled Kingdoms) players rarely mind seeing their creation destroyed like that as long as the Kingdom comes out on top. In public, people boast about their Kingdoms more than they boast about their province (or so it seems to me, maybe I don't spend enough time with different types of players). I have this idea floating in my head about the Kingdom becoming the 'character' of some 20-25 players, the entity that they identify with. Then this Kingdom often sets out to join actual 'guilds', i.e. alliances.

I'm just thinking out loud here. What is more important to you guys - the Kingdom or the province? Do you identify more with your Kingdom or more with your own province? Do you think the level of collective skill in a KD automatically means that its players will be more KD oriented/minded?

"Observers worldwide have been expressing great pity for the people of Gaza [...] This pity may be a natural emotional reaction, yet it is unethical and immoral." - Adi Dvir, Ynetnews editor
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Posts: 14/14
(01-Mar-2007 at 18:27)

ok im only posting a correction to a reply i read up top....

This time it was more fun, and came to an old KD called Legendary (not the legendary that exists now) We had a nice monarch for a few ages and we did good.. But he left us, stopepd playing and then we got a new player called DB (Devilbunny (maybe some of you know him.. he is retired now i think)) he turned us into a killing machine and we spread on the server like a plaque.. We had like everyone else some ups and downs ages, and had plenty good players in the KD (Janinho and more i cant remember).. It was alot fun and spend alot time in IRC..
The kd name was Legendary Sanctuary and DB was a great guy although he called me a stalker stupid punk...lol much love DB and i think Jan is still around somewhere he left shortly after DB...

~Dorky Gangsta~
(ex-nexus player)
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