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Posts: 23/33
(21-Mar-2011 at 04:56)


Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Originally Posted by Saint Sinner: View Post
I was going to make some points but then I figured why bother

The reason for the conflict is simple.

Thou shalt not kill is just a good law

Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live was in direct response to the popularity of witchcraft, and other non-christian faiths at the time, and in an effort to ensure that this religion was the dominating one a holy war of sorts was raged
Actually, the laws of the Levitical priesthood were shadows of things to come. They were to remain until the coming of Christ. Such as killing a lamb for the remission of sin, which was no longer needed after the real lamb of God came and died. In the same sense they had been commanded to judge and punish sinners, including stoning them. However when the true judge had come he then tells them; "...he that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone...".

Those rites and commands were symbolic of things to come and instructions to teach them the pattern of heavenly things and judgment itself.

Isa. 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Isa. 56:1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.

Originally Posted by Saint Sinner: View Post
Honestly I'm not even 100% certain there is a heaven to go to ... and after the thousands of years of bloodshed and all of the wars waged by the church, the men, women and children all slaughtered in the name of God and by the command of God .. I think the better question should be .. Are you 100% sure that if you died today that you would want to go to heaven?
Just because people do things and claim it is in God's name doesn't make it so.

Mat. 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Even the chosen Isrealites began doing many things which was not part of God's will. So, they had their commission to spread the word of God stripped from them...

Mat. 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

The commission to spread the word was now the responsibility of all believers, yet they were warned not to fall into the same fate.

Rom. 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

All people who profess to be doing the Lord's will aren't, anymore than are all Germans are Nazis. Just because one Christian assassinates an abortion doctor does mean you should group all Christians as such.

And if speaking of the atrocities committed by Rome, know that the catholic church resembles paganism as much as it does true Christian teachings. It has never been representative of scripture but actually teaches many things that are blatantly contrary.
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(22-Mar-2011 at 07:38)


Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Adam,

You seem confused regarding the fact that we are no longer under the law, but under grace. Under the law a witch would be put to death. Secondly, I'm not a witch, nor am I participating in witchcraft. Your arguements are fragmented and illogical due to the fact that all forms of entertainment contain some example of sin. Robbery, witchraft, lying, ect. The mere fact that a show contains sinful behavior doesn't mean that the observer is participating. We are going to have to agree to disagree. Again, I am not a Catholic.

Last edited by xfrodobagginsx, 22-Mar-2011 at 07:39.
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(22-Mar-2011 at 20:28)


Quote:
Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live was in direct response to the popularity of witchcraft, and other non-christian faiths at the time, and in an effort to ensure that this religion was the dominating one a holy war of sorts was raged
True. The witch was an unknown evil until the Church targeted the local wise women of the village. These women had lots of power in their local communities, serving as midwifes and herbalists, and also as the teller of tales and keeper family histories. So much power in fact they challenged the Church hierarchy in some locales, a problem that was remedied by lies and innuendo they were in league with Satan.

Quote:
Actually, the laws of the Levitical priesthood were shadows of things to come. They were to remain until the coming of Christ. Such as killing a lamb for the remission of sin, which was no longer needed after the real lamb of God came and died.
It does not deny that many Christian sects are based on the old Levitican rules, however.

Quote:
The bible is a collection of a few good stories with some good lessons mixed in and a shit load of propaganda
True. No matter how you look at it, the old and the new testaments were compiled by men, and written by men long after the events that are documented had occurred.The Bible most Christians use was created from religious texts at the Council of Nicaean, and translations have occurred at various times throughout history. Logically if God has wanted men to follow him, with eternal damnation as a punishment if they don't, he would give us far better evidences of his existence. Otherwise the inference is that he is vengeful and petty.

The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread.
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(23-Mar-2011 at 07:32)


The Bible makes clear there is no heaven awaiting man. Like beasts we are just destined for dust, to presume anything else is just vanity.

Ecclesiastes 3 : 19 - 22

For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth? Wherefore I perceive that there is nothing better, than that a man should rejoice in his own works; for that is his portion: for who shall bring him to see what shall be after him?

This is what every PvP argument boils down to:
Dear Devs:
Rock is overpowered, please nerf. Paper is fine.
Yours, Scissors

Last edited by Grashnak, 23-Mar-2011 at 07:33.
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(23-Mar-2011 at 13:05)


Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx: View Post
Adam,

You seem confused regarding the fact that we are no longer under the law, but under grace. Under the law a witch would be put to death. Secondly, I'm not a witch, nor am I participating in witchcraft. Your arguements are fragmented and illogical due to the fact that all forms of entertainment contain some example of sin. Robbery, witchraft, lying, ect. The mere fact that a show contains sinful behavior doesn't mean that the observer is participating. We are going to have to agree to disagree. Again, I am not a Catholic.
First, you insisted on scripture and then when faced with very plain scripture your answer is to say you "disagree". By what scripture do you disagree? Please share. I jumped through your hoops so the least you can do is show me the scripture by which you base your beliefs.

Secondly, to say that all entertainment contains sinful behavior is a huge falsity. The Bible portrays basically every type of sin, from rape, to sorcery, to murder and blasphemy. The difference dear brother is the Bible does not glorify them or make them heroes of the tale. Instead they show us clear lessons that portray such behavior as bad, or wicked. I'm sure the Bible you read from portrays Satan as the bad guy, and sorcerers as people on the evil side. IT DOES NOT GLORIFY THEM. Get the difference? Bible 101.

I never repeated that I thought you were Catholic. It was only your mention of gluttony that made me think so and after you declared different I never implied it again.

Also I am not confused about being under grace perhaps you should understand the laws and their purpose more fully. There are 3 types of laws. The ceremonial, the civil, and the moral.

The ceremonial laws consisted of things that were fulfilled by the birth the life and the death of Christ and are no longer required. Such as certain feast and fasting days as well as the rituals that were part of the sanctuary service. This includes the sacrifice of lambs that I already mentioned because the true lamb had died and fulfilled that ceremony. Also the feast of tabernacles which was fulfilled by the birth of Christ as a sign of him being in the presence of his believers. Etc...

The civil laws were general advice to Godly men to better understand fairness and judgment and are still guidelines for the believer today. Such as keep away from sorcery, don't spy on your sister in law when she is naked, and if your cattle get's loose and causes damage or suffering upon your neighbor you should reimburse him. Theses laws are still applicable and were not fulfilled or symbolic of the death of Christ. Such is still good advice for the Godly man.

The moral laws are the ten commandments and are a condensed version of the civil laws. The first 4 commandments are the most basic principles to follow what your conduct between you and God should be. The last 6 commandments are the basic principles of how one should act towards his neighbor. In the new testament Christ is asked what are the most important laws.....

Mat. 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Do you get it now? If you love God with all your heart you wouldn't dare to use his name in vain, or worship another God or do ANYTHING displeasing to him.

And if you love your neighbor with all your heart, you will not murder him, lie to him or have an affair with his wife.

Again, this stuff is Bible 101. It's not some hidden puzzle but basic scriptural understanding taught by theology scholars of almost every denomination.

We are saved through grace and not the law, this is very true. But grace never gave the believer a license to sin.

Rom. 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

When you have aligned yourself with the will of God, being sinless will be effortless. You won't have to try of your own will to stop sinning. When walking that close with God he will fill you with his Spirit, and when Spirit filled you automatically will do no sin. It will be effortless!

What about the sincere believers that can never seem to be filled with the Spirit because of their own desires of the flesh which hold them back? This is what repentance is for. We must learn to start each day new and let the blood of Christ wash away the sins of yesterday.

What happens to those who think they have to accept Christ once and then can do whatsoever they choose but still believe they are saved by grace. Well the Bible is very clear about such minded persons.

2Pet. 2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

You wanted scripture Frodo. There it is. Do you have scripture which shows my points to be incorrect, or just your opinion that you disagree again? Didn't you say that you do not accept the thoughts of man only scripture? Then why when faced with scripture do you use your own opinion to ignore it?

Don't worry brother I see this all the time, men who are deceived by their own beliefs and church teachings. When shown the plain truth they have not a verse to utter in their defense, they simply try to wash it all aside by saying words like "I disgaree".

You originally aspired to tell people how to get to heaven. I can tell you this if nothing else; the first step in getting to heaven is not obeying God but hearing his word and placing that above anything you have ever thought or been taught....even if it means that it shows that your behavior is full of sin you never noticed before. When you get to that point, don't be filled with guilt for your weaknesses. Be overjoyed for the light that was shown to you. Once you have that you know where your error lies and can focus in prayer and study to overcome these things. Instead of telling yourself that abominations of God is actually entertainment for the believer.
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(24-Mar-2011 at 05:41)


Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Originally Posted by Grashnak: View Post
The Bible makes clear there is no heaven awaiting man. Like beasts we are just destined for dust, to presume anything else is just vanity.

Ecclesiastes 3 : 19 - 22

For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth? Wherefore I perceive that there is nothing better, than that a man should rejoice in his own works; for that is his portion: for who shall bring him to see what shall be after him?

The bible makes it clear that those in Christ are going to heaven.

Christians Do go to heaven:

Mr 16:19 ¶ So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
.2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
(KJV)
Php 1:21 ¶ For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
.23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.

People in heaven:

.Re 19:1 ¶ And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
(KJV)

Jesus Christ is going to rule and reign on the earth.. The believers will be with Him on the earth at that time.. Right now believer's go to heaven to be with the Lord Jesus Christ because that is where He is..

Jesus Christ is God:

1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
(KJV)

Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

John declares Him to be God:

Joh 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
(KJV)

Jesus declares Himself God by calling Himself I am time and time again:

Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
(KJV)

I am is God's name.

This prophecy of Jesus's first comming shows that He is God.. Who has been from everlasting except God?

.Mic 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. {everlasting: Heb. the days of eternity}

Jesus Knows all things proving that He is God:

.Joh 16:30 Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.

.Joh 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
(KJV)

Last edited by xfrodobagginsx, 24-Mar-2011 at 05:42.
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(24-Mar-2011 at 06:49)


Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx: View Post
The bible makes it clear that those in Christ are going to heaven.

Christians Do go to heaven:

Mr 16:19 ¶ So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
.2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
(KJV)
Php 1:21 ¶ For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
.23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.

People in heaven:

.Re 19:1 ¶ And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
(KJV)

Jesus Christ is going to rule and reign on the earth.. The believers will be with Him on the earth at that time.. Right now believer's go to heaven to be with the Lord Jesus Christ because that is where He is..

Jesus Christ is God:

1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
(KJV)

Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

John declares Him to be God:

Joh 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
(KJV)

Jesus declares Himself God by calling Himself I am time and time again:

Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
(KJV)

I am is God's name.

This prophecy of Jesus's first comming shows that He is God.. Who has been from everlasting except God?

.Mic 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. {everlasting: Heb. the days of eternity}

Jesus Knows all things proving that He is God:

.Joh 16:30 Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.

.Joh 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
(KJV)
Nothing you showed refuted a single word of my post. Please address point for point logic and scripture. I never indicated that believers wouldn't go to heaven. I simply showed very plain scripture that tells us not all believers will get there. Satan believes in Christ, will he find eternal life in heaven?

I will say this about what you did say even though is had nothing to do with anything I have mentioned.

You said;
"Jesus Christ is going to rule and reign on the earth.. The believers will be with Him on the earth at that time.. Right now believer's go to heaven to be with the Lord Jesus Christ because that is where He is.."

This is false and the Bible shows it to be false continually.

Now before you go and try to focus on this one issue, get my previous post out of the way which you ignored. Instead you posted a bunch of passages without direction or explanation.

I addressed separately, using scripturally direct responses to your comments. The decent thing you could do after insisting over and over that I use scripture is to actually respond point for point as I did.

Last edited by adam332, 24-Mar-2011 at 06:51.
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(25-Mar-2011 at 07:10)


Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Originally Posted by adam332: View Post
Nothing you showed refuted a single word of my post. Please address point for point logic and scripture. I never indicated that believers wouldn't go to heaven. I simply showed very plain scripture that tells us not all believers will get there. Satan believes in Christ, will he find eternal life in heaven?

Biblically, to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ is to place your faith in Him for salvation. It's not the same as satan merely believing that He exists. That's the difference.


I will say this about what you did say even though is had nothing to do with anything I have mentioned.

You said;
"Jesus Christ is going to rule and reign on the earth.. The believers will be with Him on the earth at that time.. Right now believer's go to heaven to be with the Lord Jesus Christ because that is where He is.."

This is false and the Bible shows it to be false continually.

So, according to you, Jesus is not going to rule on the earth and believers aren't present with the Lord at this time? Sorry, but that's not what the bible says:

Re 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Re 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years


2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.



Now before you go and try to focus on this one issue, get my previous post out of the way which you ignored. Instead you posted a bunch of passages without direction or explanation.

If you would simply read the passages, the answer would be right in your face.


I addressed separately, using scripturally direct responses to your comments. The decent thing you could do after insisting over and over that I use scripture is to actually respond point for point as I did.

I believe I have. How have I not?

My responses are in bold above.
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(14-Apr-2011 at 14:31)


Please take the time to read this first post and pray that prayer at the bottom of it to God from your heart.
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(14-Apr-2011 at 18:52)


exclamation mark

Please dont top threads
Its spammy

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"
R.I.P. InJustice!
Hit me up on Facebook

EWE-tah
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(14-Apr-2011 at 18:55)


Please close this pile of garbage thread?

If all else fails, call someone a troll.
that can be fixed... /

Last edited by Greeney, 14-Apr-2011 at 18:58.
Edit reason: BTK killer should go to heaven if he repents; all people who aren't of the same religion should go to hell. God is merciful.
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(18-Apr-2011 at 04:21)


Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Originally Posted by Greeney: View Post
Please close this pile of garbage thread?
If it's not true, why does it bother you so much?
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(18-Apr-2011 at 05:10)


I find proselytization to be ridiculous, offensive, and pathetic. I also don't like people who tell others they're going to hell for believing differently.

You're either a troll who gets fun out of annoying random strangers [get a girlfriend?] or you're a real person who is just making people who dislike Christianity to dislike Christianity even further than they already do. Either way, I don't like it. I don't think messages like these are fair to Christians who don't force their bullshit down everyone's throat; you give them a bad reputation. It's also just annoying to people who don't believe in your God. I will be absolutely shocked if you convinced anyone so far to believe in the crap you're posting; you're wasting the time of anyone who has read this thread.

Imagine a few muslims came to your house and tried to convince you to convert you while quoting a bunch of random crap from the Quran that didn't matter in the least to you. Then they tell you to repeat their prayer that you wouldn't be comfortable saying? Would you enjoy listening to the crap they'd be telling you? There's a terrible habit with most of you proselytizers; you aren't capable of comprehending the possibility that everything your parents and sunday school teachers hammered into your head, since the age of two, might not be absolutely correct and anyone who thinks differently will end up in hell.

Let me explain something you really should understand, and this really is what bothers me the most about most people like you. The only reason you are Christian is because you were raised by Christians. If you were raised by Muslims, you'd be telling us all to read the Quran. If you were raised by atheists, you'd probably be trying to use logic to prove to anyone that there is no God. You've never seriously looked into any other religion; you just assume Christianity is correct because of a pile of crap that was repeated into you hundreds of times.

[If you post a story about how your parents weren't really Christians for some ridiculous sake of trying to put me in my place, I won't believe it. People who aren't born Christian, but try to proselytize show a lot more common sense and thoughtfulness than spewing a bunch of silly ass quotes and telling people to pray with them. Yeah, I know, I'm a douche for analyzing a potential response and bringing this up before you had the chance to say it or for thinking it when you might not have been planning to say it at all.]

This isn't so much a "religious discussion" as an "believe what I believe or you're going to hell" thread. Sorry, anyone who thinks "everyone ought to think as I do or they ought to suffer eternal torment" are the ones who deserve to go to hell [in my opinion].


I'm sure you enjoyed reading this response as much as I enjoyed reading any of your posts so far. If you want to contribute to this site, please do. If you're only here to tell people some sick crap that's as considerate as "believe in my God or die" I hope you go away sooner rather than later.

If all else fails, call someone a troll.
that can be fixed... /

Last edited by Greeney, 18-Apr-2011 at 05:17.
Edit reason: Please don't mistake this with me hating all Christians, because most are nice people.
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(18-Apr-2011 at 05:30)


Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Originally Posted by Greeney: View Post
Let me explain something you really should understand, and this really is what bothers me the most about most people like you. The only reason you are Christian is because you were raised by Christians. If you were raised by Muslims, you'd be telling us all to read the Quran. If you were raised by atheists, you'd probably be trying to use logic to prove to anyone that there is no God. You've never seriously looked into any other religion; you just assume Christianity is correct because of a pile of crap that was repeated into you hundreds of times.

[If you post a story about how your parents weren't really Christians for some ridiculous sake of trying to put me in my place, I won't believe it. People who aren't born Christian, but try to proselytize show a lot more common sense and thoughtfulness than spewing a bunch of silly ass quotes and telling people to pray with them.]
Yes and no. I understand where you are coming from but this isn't always the case. In fact from what I have noticed quite often the most fanatical and most hmmm how to phrase it repulsive people are exactly those who weren't raised christians but actually became one. Usually after a deep personal crisis which they overcame by restructuring their life based on what they now see as an universal truth. In fact it's not an uncommon tactic for churches to seek to influence and convert especially these kinds people and once they do they can turn crazy


And there is also the other factor. People who were raised in a very christian family but became atheists, agnostics and so on when they grew up and went to college. But this didn't work out for them as they couldn't handle life and they went back to the religion they knew suttubornly ignoring everything else. I actually know a woman like this. She is smart and can be logical but she is so scared of feeling left out and alone that she has sunk her teeth into the only place where she found acceptance aka in her religion. And it's literally impossible to get her to move on it or even think about it. You can actually see the fear in her eyes every time you point out something logical that contradicts the current dogma she spouts. It's really sad

The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common; they don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit the views

Last edited by DHoffryn, 18-Apr-2011 at 05:34.
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(18-Apr-2011 at 05:40)


Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Originally Posted by DHoffryn: View Post
Yes and no. I understand where you are coming from but this isn't always the case. In fact from what I have noticed quite often the most fanatical and most hmmm how to phrase it repulsive people are exactly those who weren't raised christians but actually became one. Usually after a deep personal crisis which they overcame by restructuring their life based on what they now see as an universal truth. In fact it's not an uncommon tactic for churches to seek to influence and convert especially these kinds people and once they do they can turn crazy
Well yeah, those people are capable of being far more annoying than humanly possible. However, they tend to understand how to talk to people who weren't always Christian. I can't imagine a convert to Christian going to someone who is an atheist (unless closely related) and saying something along the lines of

Quote:
"that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.."
in the hope of proving some sort of point. I mean, you'd have to suffer from something far worse than multiple personality disorder to think that's an effective method of persuasion unless you're so closed minded that you refuse to ever consider the possibility that anything you say is wrong. I can't imagine someone being that closed minded if s/he ever experienced life differently enough to change her/his religion.

If all else fails, call someone a troll.
that can be fixed... /

Last edited by Greeney, 18-Apr-2011 at 05:43.
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(18-Apr-2011 at 19:12)


Quote:
Well yeah, those people are capable of being far more annoying than humanly possible. However, they tend to understand how to talk to people who weren't always Christian. I can't imagine a convert to Christian going to someone who is an atheist (unless closely related) and saying something along the lines of
The more harmless ones yes but a lot of the people who have hit rock bottom and find their new way of life can hate themselves a lot and take out this hate on the other people. Not directly but in that smug self righteous way. I can easily picture some of them saying things like


" You are all filthy whores but there is a salvation for you. I know because I used to be like you until I foun blah blah blah"

The thing is that while religion can sometimes be a way for someone to find inner peace and so on other times especially for those that have hit rock bottom it can be a fanatical narrow minded ideology that they see as an absolute truth . And such people well they don't have logical,rationality tact or anything because they don't need them. They think they have an absolute truth and this mixed with their self loathing and so on well you get the picture

Quote:
in the hope of proving some sort of point. I mean, you'd have to suffer from something far worse than multiple personality disorder to think that's an effective method of persuasion unless you're so closed minded that you refuse to ever consider the possibility that anything you say is wrong. I can't imagine someone being that closed minded if s/he ever experienced life differently enough to change her/his religion.
Then you are a lucky man because trust me there are quite a few people like this. It's sad but true.

The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common; they don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit the views

Last edited by DHoffryn, 18-Apr-2011 at 19:13.
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(19-Apr-2011 at 02:09)


Well ...

After much debate and research, and considering your thread topping, I have decided to close this.

Anyone that wishes to continue this "discussion" can find this exact same thread on various other forums.

Soooo ...without further ado and by popular request
Topping the charts at #1 ...

[closed]
by
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