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Posts: 3717/8194
(06-Oct-2004 at 18:00)
No Palestinian state

From Haaretz today an interview with Ariel Sharon's senior advisor, Dov Weisglass

Quote:
"The significance of the disengagement plan is the freezing of the peace process," Weisglass, one of the initiators of the disengagement plan, said in an interview for the Friday Magazine.

"And when you freeze that process," Weisglass added, "you prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state, and you prevent a discussion on the refugees, the borders and Jerusalem."

"Effectively, this whole package called the Palestinian state, with all that it entails, has been removed indefinitely from our agenda. And all this with authority and permission. All with a presidential blessing and the ratification of both houses of Congress."
.
.
.
".. what I effectively agreed to with the Americans was that part of the settlements would not be dealt with at all, and the rest will not be dealt with until the Palestinians turn into Finns. That is the significance of what we did."
Not really new, that Likud does not accept a Palestinian state has been on their election platform for a long time, but still those statements are more candid than usual. I wonder if USA is going to respond to the claims that they have abolished any plans for a Palestinian state.

Come to think of it, couldn't we persuade the Finnish ambassador to give all of the Palestinians honorary Finnish citizenship so they can get a state
#1  
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Posts: 119/575
(07-Oct-2004 at 14:45)


As long as they don't get to Sweden, right?

What we do in life echoes an eternity
#2  
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Posts: 64/253
(07-Oct-2004 at 15:12)


no Palestinian state = no peace in the middle east ... EVER
no Palestinian state = excuse for the suicide bombers
no Palestinian state = excuse for the Terrorists worldwide

sad state of affairs

boo
#3  
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Posts: 738/2860
(07-Oct-2004 at 15:16)


Quote:
(Originally posted by westernesse)

no Palestinian state = no peace in the middle east ... EVER
no Palestinian state = excuse for the suicide bombers
no Palestinian state = excuse for the Terrorists worldwide

sad state of affairs
Right, No morning coffee = goin postal.

Calm down.

Mars II - American Scientist
PhD - Physical Chemistry
#4  
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Posts: 122/575
(07-Oct-2004 at 15:43)


Quote:
(Originally posted by westernesse)

no Palestinian state = no peace in the middle east ... EVER
no Palestinian state = excuse for the suicide bombers
no Palestinian state = excuse for the Terrorists worldwide

sad state of affairs
I partialy agree with the first two sentences.
As for the third, it's not just because there's no Palestinian state.
I know that the current situation must lead to the establishing of a Palestinian state, but it's more like a circular position: We, the Isarelis, justically say that if the terror will stop we will continue the peace process. The Palestinians say, and from their point of view they are right as well, that if they will have a state they will stop the teror.
Right now, I think it that state cannot be established, since the Palestinians currently have a weak system of leadership. They must prove ability to run a democratic country before getting one. Right now there are many problems in that issue in the Wesy Bank and the Gaza Stripe.

What we do in life echoes an eternity
#5  
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Posts: 3724/8194
(07-Oct-2004 at 15:54)
Quote:
(Originally posted by nazarab)
Right now, I think it that state cannot be established, since the Palestinians currently have a weak system of leadership. They must prove ability to run a democratic country before getting one. Right now there are many problems in that issue in the Wesy Bank and the Gaza Stripe.
Israel has occupied the West Bank since 1967. Have they been helping to build up a viable state there? No, they've been busy stealing the land and the water and assassinating most potential leaders, building walls and chackpoints and "Jew only" roads. If the Palestinians can't run a state at this point it is because Israel has made sure they can't. If their goal really was a Palestinian state there would have been no settlements, water wouldn't have been diverted from the West Bank into Israel etc. (These are war crimes BTW).

The Palestinians have for a long time asked for help from international peace keeping forces since they understand the problem, but Israel has consistently refused. Under the current circumastance it is impossible for the Palestinians to run a state since they haven't got one. I think Weisglass comment about how they would have to turn into Finns first is a good description of the Israeli view.
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Posts: 124/575
(07-Oct-2004 at 16:03)


Quote:
(Originally posted by Bernel)

Israel has occupied the West Bank since 1967. Have they been helping to build up a viable state there? No, they've been busy stealing the land and the water and assassinating most potential leaders, building walls and chackpoints and "Jew only" roads. If the Palestinians can't run a state at this point it is because Israel has made sure they can't. If their goal really was a Palestinian state there would have been no settlements, water wouldn't have been diverted from the West Bank into Israel etc. (These are war crimes BTW).
So what were the Swedish people and the Finnish ambassador
waiting for?

What we do in life echoes an eternity
#7  
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(07-Oct-2004 at 16:06)


Quote:
(Originally posted by Bernel)

Israel has occupied the West Bank since 1967. Have they been helping to build up a viable state there? No, they've been busy stealing the land and the water and assassinating most potential leaders, building walls and chackpoints and "Jew only" roads. If the Palestinians can't run a state at this point it is because Israel has made sure they can't. If their goal really was a Palestinian state there would have been no settlements, water wouldn't have been diverted from the West Bank into Israel etc. (These are war crimes BTW).

The Palestinians have for a long time asked for help from international peace keeping forces since they understand the problem, but Israel has consistently refused. Under the current circumastance it is impossible for the Palestinians to run a state since they haven't got one. I think Weisglass comment about how they would have to turn into Finns first is a good description of the Israeli view.

very good points, they have a NIL economy relying on whatever aid they can get, the only possible solution to this problem ( and i know, i'm Lebanese i live in the area and have had my country invaded by Israel as well ) is to have a UN peacekeeping force physically separating the two sides and forcing a ceasefire. then maybe things will change

boo
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Posts: 150/667
(07-Oct-2004 at 19:09)


i heard the USA just vetoed another resolution against Isreal in the UN. I think it was voted on at 11-1, and only one of the 11 yes votes was an arab nation. But of course the USA vetoes everything for Isreal
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Posts: 125/575
(07-Oct-2004 at 21:36)


And is it that bad? You always think that Israel does everything wrong, that its existance is the worst thing the world has ever had and that we, the Jews worldwide, should die.
Stop that.
If I can understand why the Palestinians hate Israel so much, why can't you understand my feelings and the suffer of my people?

What we do in life echoes an eternity
#10  
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(07-Oct-2004 at 22:24)
Quote:
(Originally posted by nazarab)
And is it that bad? You always think that Israel does everything wrong, that its existance is the worst thing the world has ever had and that we, the Jews worldwide, should die.
Stop that.
You are just inventing a strawman so you won't have to deal with the real criticism Israel is facing. No one has suggested to kill all Jews, that's just an insulting you throw out. Why don't you reply to what has been said instead?
Quote:
If I can understand why the Palestinians hate Israel so much, why can't you understand my feelings and the suffer of my people?
I can understand that many Jews suffered during WW II, but that's a long time ago and neither of us were alive then. Today Jews don't suffer more than others, even if some of you are very good at complaining. I'm not going to "understand" the Israeli occupation and landgrab, the whole idea of basing a claim to a land on some 2000 year old history is completely alien to me.
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Old gkb
Posts: 309/436
(07-Oct-2004 at 22:30)
Quote:
(Originally posted by nazarab)

And is it that bad? You always think that Israel does everything wrong, that its existance is the worst thing the world has ever had and that we, the Jews worldwide, should die.
Stop that.
If I can understand why the Palestinians hate Israel so much, why can't you understand my feelings and the suffer of my people?
YOU DUN REALIZE HOW MANY PEOPLE OF OTHER CORNER OF THE WORLD SEEN THIS UNFAIR DONE BY ISRALIS and they are disgusted by it except for US.
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Old gkb
Posts: 310/436
(07-Oct-2004 at 22:32)
Quote:
(Originally posted by Bernel)

I'm not going to "understand" the Israeli occupation and landgrab, the whole idea of basing a claim to a land on some 2000 year old history is completely alien to me.
I agreed.
#13  
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(08-Oct-2004 at 01:28)
Re: No Palestinian state

Quote:
(Originally posted by Bernel)
Come to think of it, couldn't we persuade the Finnish ambassador to give all of the Palestinians honorary Finnish citizenship so they can get a state
ehh no. We got enough issues as it is already

nazarab, your people dont suffer the most if we are to be honest. The palestines are suffering more than you do, you are grabbing their land with a 2000 year old book to back it up as reason, that would suck if anyone did that to finland. We might actually fight back...

anyway could you please tell me why USA is almost always puts in their veto against decisions going through UN concerning Israel, while way to many approves them. No, not all are racists/nazi in europe either.

bernel, do you think scandinavia should put up claims based on the time we were vikings, we had alot of land back then in europe, it would be the same wouldnt it

May our future decisions give the future generations a better past than the one we have had
#14  
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Donated $8.00
(08-Oct-2004 at 01:39)


Quote:
(Originally posted by nazarab)
and that we, the Jews worldwide, should die.
When will you learn that anti-semitism and to disagree with Israelian policy is not the same?

Quote:
(Originally posted by Messenger)
bernel, do you think scandinavia should put up claims based on the time we were vikings, we had alot of land back then in europe, it would be the same wouldnt it
Not to mention parts of canada (and I think parts of the US)
Great Britan have had a viking king earlier.

Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.
~ Sir Winston Leonard Spencer Churchill ~
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Posts: 3729/8194
(08-Oct-2004 at 08:49)
Quote:
(Originally posted by Messenger)
nazarab, your people dont suffer the most if we are to be honest. The palestines are suffering more than you do, you are grabbing their land with a 2000 year old book to back it up as reason, that would suck if anyone did that to finland. We might actually fight back...
What do you mean by 'might'? The Soviet Union tried to claim parts of Finland back in 1939 based on claims only a few decades old, and you fought back pretty well as I recall. Not well enough to keep everything, but then you are a small country.
Quote:
bernel, do you think scandinavia should put up claims based on the time we were vikings, we had alot of land back then in europe, it would be the same wouldnt it
As long as you don't mind giving up your own sovereignty to Sweden since Finland historically has been a Swedish province
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(08-Oct-2004 at 09:11)
Quote:
(Originally posted by Bernel)

What do you mean by 'might'? The Soviet Union tried to claim parts of Finland back in 1939 based on claims only a few decades old, and you fought back pretty well as I recall. Not well enough to keep everything, but then you are a small country.
I know but i am sure that nazrab dont know our history in WW2 that well

it were kinda the same as the situation the palestines are in today.

Quote:
As long as you don't mind giving up your own sovereignty to Sweden since Finland historically has been a Swedish province
now that is an entirley diffrent issue But i would like to have a second home in canada

May our future decisions give the future generations a better past than the one we have had
#17  
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(08-Oct-2004 at 09:35)


Quote:
(Originally posted by nazarab)

And is it that bad? You always think that Israel does everything wrong, that its existance is the worst thing the world has ever had and that we, the Jews worldwide, should die.
Stop that.
If I can understand why the Palestinians hate Israel so much, why can't you understand my feelings and the suffer of my people?

Man i hate people who think the second you go against israeli policies,you want to kill all jews.

GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD,BEING AGAINST ISRAELI FOREIGN POLICIES IS NOT ANTI-SEMITSM.
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(08-Oct-2004 at 10:32)


Quote:
(Originally posted by moaustin)



GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD,BEING AGAINST ISRAELI FOREIGN POLICIES IS NOT ANTI-SEMITSM.
well said, it's called reverse racismm

boo
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(08-Oct-2004 at 18:05)


Quote:
(Originally posted by Messenger)

I know but i am sure that nazrab dont know our history in WW2 that well

it were kinda the same as the situation the palestines are in today.



now that is an entirley diffrent issue But i would like to have a second home in canada
1) I know about the WW2 more than you think.
2) Bernel, I am not hiding from criticism. I avoid entering an argument with you, since I have learned from previous experiences that you are not a compatible partner for a discussion.
3)Try to imagine a world without Israel. Not a lot of Jews in the world and no Western footprint in the Arab territories. Europe and the US will represent the Christians and there will probably a war between them and the Muslems.
Think of that scenario between you respond angrily to my post.

What we do in life echoes an eternity
#20  
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