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Posts: 2818/2860
(09-Nov-2011 at 01:40)


Report: Iran developing nuclear bombs

Quote:
The Agency has serious concerns regarding possible military dimensions to Iran’s nuclear programme. After assessing carefully and critically the extensive information available to it, the Agency finds the information to be, overall, credible. The information indicates that Iran has carried out activities relevant to the development of a nuclear explosive device. The information also indicates that prior to the end of 2003, these activities took place under a structured programme, and that some activities may still be ongoing.
Quote:
While some of the activities identified in the Annex have civilian as well as military applications, others are specific to nuclear weapons.
Come on out Iran defenders. Time to squirm!

http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/08/world/...html?hpt=hp_t1

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45209267.../#.TrnJrXL6PKc

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15643460

http://isis-online.org/uploads/isis-...n_8Nov2011.pdf

Mars II - American Scientist
PhD - Physical Chemistry
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Posts: 6838/7006
(09-Nov-2011 at 02:37)


Look who has been watching Fox News...


1) Has Iran got a programme to produce a bomb? From your own links:

"The IAEA report, the most detailed to date on the Iranian program's military scope, found no evidence that Iran has made a strategic decision to actually build a bomb."

"Experts say Iran is at least one year away, perhaps several, from being able to produce a nuclear bomb."

There is no bomb.


2) Is there any actual, physical, concrete evidence of any intention to build a bomb?From your own links:

"The report stops short, our correspondent adds, of saying explicitly that Iran is developing a nuclear bomb."
,
""The agency has serious concerns regarding possible military dimensions to Iran's nuclear program," the report said."

There is no evidence of any intention to build a bomb.


3) Where is the law that says some countries can build nukes, and some can't?


*****


To rational, thinking, people it is obvious what Iran is doing. They want to be in a position to build nukes at short notice if they need to, but have no plans to produce any actual nukes. That is why they are doing the research, which is allowed under NPT, but there is no evidence (and never has been) of any weapons programme. They are not the only country on the planet taking that paper nukes route.

The problem here is not Iran. The problem here is warmongering Israelis and scare-mongering Republicans like you, who are scared shitless of weapons that don't even exist and start huffing and puffing and stamping their feet like children, threatening Iran while telling each other it is 'taking a tough stance' etc.

Good job there, escalating the situation and giving Iran - and everybody else - more incentive to get nukes. They need them, to defend themselves from Israeli aggression and idiot US Republicans.

There is nothing new in this report, just empty hype from the right-wing. Nothing to discuss.

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." But let it be considered that he did not mean a real and generous love of our country, but that pretended patriotism which so many, in all ages and countries, have made a cloak of self- interest.
#2  
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Posts: 682/680
(09-Nov-2011 at 05:33)


Re: Report: Iran developing nuclear bombs

Iran's quest for nuclear weapons has been ongoing for almost a decade. The world will wake up when it is far too late. What a shame.

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason: View Post
There is nothing new in this report, just empty hype from the right-wing. Nothing to discuss.
Do you have to troll every thread in RGD? You've driven everyone out with your nonsense. If you have nothing constructive to add to the conversation, just STFU.
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Posts: 6839/7006
(09-Nov-2011 at 05:43)


Quote:
Iran's quest for nuclear weapons has been ongoing for almost a decade. The world will wake up when it is far too late. What a shame.
Right-wing hype about Iran's *alleged* quest for nuclear weapons has been continuing for a decade, and with what result? Zip. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. Zero. No weapons. No weapons programme. Not even any proof of an intention of building nukes.

After a decade of you lot crying wolf, do I really need to spell out the glaringly obvious conclusion?


Quote:
Do you have to troll every thread in RGD? You've driven everyone out with your nonsense. If you have nothing constructive to add to the conversation, just STFU.
It is curious how you right-wingers - Mars and Invictus are the same - always end up shouting insults. Is that really what you imagine is 'constructive'?

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." But let it be considered that he did not mean a real and generous love of our country, but that pretended patriotism which so many, in all ages and countries, have made a cloak of self- interest.
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Posts: 2819/2860
(09-Nov-2011 at 07:35)


Originally Posted by aC23: View Post
Iran's quest for nuclear weapons has been ongoing for almost a decade. The world will wake up when it is far too late. What a shame.
It will be interesting to see what Russia an China do in the security council. Iran hasn't taken a step in the right direction with the IAEA, human rights, or its world standing in a long time. It's president is an annual joke when he gets up in front of the U.N.. However, you still find supporters in this forum thinking that whatever goes against the "West" must be good for everybody.

If Iran is taking steps toward building a bomb, as indicated, then it is not complying with the NPT, as we've previously concluded. Probably what will happen is that they will bullshit as far as they can and then leave the NPT when caught to build the bomb like North Korea did.

Quote:
Do you have to troll every thread in RGD? You've driven everyone out with your nonsense. If you have nothing constructive to add to the conversation, just STFU.
He does. You know what they say though.

“Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something.”

Mars II - American Scientist
PhD - Physical Chemistry

Last edited by Mars II, 09-Nov-2011 at 07:40.
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Posts: 6840/7006
(09-Nov-2011 at 09:57)


Quote:
It will be interesting to see what Russia an China do in the security council.
From your own links:

"But because of Russian and Chinese opposition, chances are slim for another U.N. Security Council resolution sanctioning Iran for its nuclear program, the official said."

and

"China and Russia are unlikely to support further sanctions against Iran, the BBC's Kim Ghattas says in Washington."

I guess you didn't read them...


Quote:
Iran hasn't taken a step in the right direction with the IAEA, human rights, or its world standing in a long time.
Define 'right direction'.

Is that the right direction as in invading other countries, or the right direction as in illegally occupying somebody else's territory and slaughtering the resident civilians in there thousands?


Quote:
If Iran is taking steps toward building a bomb, as indicated, then it is not complying with the NPT
From your own link:

"The IAEA report, the most detailed to date on the Iranian program's military scope, found no evidence that Iran has made a strategic decision to actually build a bomb."

Are you ignoring that because it contradicts your ideology, or because you are unable to work out what "... no evidence that Iran has made a strategic decision to actually build a bomb." means?


Quote:
“Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something.”
... and Mars starts threads that contain no new information. Go figure...

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." But let it be considered that he did not mean a real and generous love of our country, but that pretended patriotism which so many, in all ages and countries, have made a cloak of self- interest.
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Posts: 2795/2825
(09-Nov-2011 at 14:00)


I don't think it really matters much if Iran does or doesn't have a nuke. Chances of invading are pretty much zero.

Quote:
There is nothing new in this report, just empty hype from the right-wing. Nothing to discuss.
Actually there is. When such old inane news are brought up chances are there is a reason. I am guessing they are preparing public opinion for an Isareli bombardment of Iran soon. So they are preparing theri justifications from now

The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common; they don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit the views
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Posts: 6841/7006
(09-Nov-2011 at 14:44)


Quote:
Actually there is. When such old inane news are brought up chances are there is a reason. I am guessing they are preparing public opinion for an Isareli bombardment of Iran soon. So they are preparing theri justifications from now
I agree that there is a reason for it. What I was saying is that it is, as you say, inane old news. Just more "it is possible that Iran is, maybe, sort of thinking about having a bomb at some time in the future, though we haven't found any evidence of one".

It is no secret that peace-loving Israel is scrabbling around for an excuse to attack Iran, and the fantasy WoMD ploy worked for Iraq, so I am fairly sure this is a load of hot air inflating the IAEA's "possible military dimensions" into a full blown bomb to justify Israel's lust for violence.

The USA, of course, will cheer them on.

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." But let it be considered that he did not mean a real and generous love of our country, but that pretended patriotism which so many, in all ages and countries, have made a cloak of self- interest.
#8  
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Posts: 2820/2860
(09-Nov-2011 at 21:13)


Re: Report: Iran developing nuclear bombs

Originally Posted by DHoffryn: View Post
I don't think it really matters much if Iran does or doesn't have a nuke. Chances of invading are pretty much zero.
You don't think sparking an arms race matters? Or the civil unrest in a possible nuclear country? People didn't see Egypt or Libya falling much before it happened.

Quote:
Actually there is. When such old inane news are brought up chances are there is a reason. I am guessing they are preparing public opinion for an Isareli bombardment of Iran soon. So they are preparing theri justifications from now
There are plenty of other hate Jew threads y'know? Thought we could make it one page without that bullshit. Can we change the name of this forum to Ridiculous Jew Discussions now?

Mars II - American Scientist
PhD - Physical Chemistry
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Posts: 7006
(10-Nov-2011 at 01:48)


Quote:
You don't think sparking an arms race matters?
Either you are so badly informed that you don't know that Israel already has nukes, or you reasoning is so weak that you can't figure out that the *second* country to get nukes cannot be sparking anything.


Quote:
Or the civil unrest in a possible nuclear country?
Iran has no nukes, not even possible ones, but it is taking a long time for that fact to sink in.


Quote:
There are plenty of other hate Jew threads y'know? Thought we could make it one page without that bullshit.
As predicted, you run out of arguments and start throwing insults around. You didn't even make it to the bottom of the first page before your argument got shredded - well done.

The joke here is that even your insults are devoid of logic:

1) Israel is not Jews. It is not even the majority of Jews, but you are not the kind to let facts keep you from your characteristic 'jew hater' line. Plenty of Jews (which is not the same as 'Israeli') hate what Israel is doing.

"A group of prominent Jews seek today to renounce their right to Israeli residence and citizenship in protest at Israel's "barbaric" policies towards the Palestinians."

2) This was all over the news less than a week ago:

"Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is trying to rally support in his cabinet for an attack on Iran, according to government sources."

Yes Mars, if you bothered to get informed, peace-loving Israel really is itching to attack Iran. It is a fact. We are not making it up. Of course, in your world, nuclear armed Israel straining at the leash to attack another sovereign state is not a problem, but Iran maybe possibly could be able to make a nuke perhaps sometime is "OMFG!!!! It's a crisis!!!!"

Can you explain this double standard? I doubt it...

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." But let it be considered that he did not mean a real and generous love of our country, but that pretended patriotism which so many, in all ages and countries, have made a cloak of self- interest.

Last edited by Voice of Reason, 10-Nov-2011 at 01:50.
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Posts: 2796/2825
(10-Nov-2011 at 07:16)


Re: Report: Iran developing nuclear bombs

Originally Posted by Mars II: View Post
You don't think sparking an arms race matters?
What arms race? Isreal has had nukes for decades.

Quote:
Or the civil unrest in a possible nuclear country?
Nope. Not really




Quote:
There are plenty of other hate Jew threads y'know? Thought we could make it one page without that bullshit. Can we change the name of this forum to Ridiculous Jew Discussions now?
This is about Israel not jews. There is a difference you know. One is a religion the other is a country who has already once launched an attacked a nuclear program in a foreign country before. If you think this is not a logical issue to bring into this discussion or a quitea reasonable prediction frankly you are an idiot

The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common; they don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit the views

Last edited by DHoffryn, 10-Nov-2011 at 07:16.
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Posts: 2821/2860
(10-Nov-2011 at 07:52)


Originally Posted by DHoffryn: View Post
What arms race? Isreal has had nukes for decades.
So we should arm them all and let them have a nuclear standoff? Great idea, hope it works out.

Originally Posted by DHoffryn: View Post
Nope. Not really
Then you haven't thought it out much.

Originally Posted by DHoffryn: View Post
This is about Israel not jews.
The thread is about the new report on Iran actually. Take your Jew bashing to one of the many other threads or make your own.

Originally Posted by DHoffryn: View Post
There is a difference you know. One is a religion the other is a country who has already once launched an attacked a nuclear program in a foreign country before. If you think this is not a logical issue to bring into this discussion or a quitea reasonable prediction frankly you are an idiot
What it is, is an idiotic distraction from the actual topic: the report. A distraction from such things as:

Quote:
The Agency has information provided by a Member State that Iran may have planned and
undertaken preparatory experimentation which would be useful were Iran to carry out a test of a nuclear
explosive device. In particular, the Agency has information that Iran has conducted a number of practical
tests to see whether its EBW firing equipment would function satisfactorily over long distances between a
firing point and a test device located down a deep shaft. Additionally, among the alleged studies
documentation provided by that Member State, is a document, in Farsi, which relates directly to the
logistics and safety arrangements that would be necessary for conducting a nuclear test. The Agency has
been informed by a different Member State that these arrangements directly reflect those which have been
used in nuclear tests conducted by nuclear-weapon States.
Quote:
The Agency, in conjunction with experts from Member States other than those which had provided
the information in question, carried out an assessment of the possible nature of the new payload. As a
result of that assessment, it was concluded that any payload option other than nuclear which could also be
expected to have an airburst option (such as chemical weapons) could be ruled out. Iran was asked to
comment on this assessment and agreed in the course of a meeting with the Agency which took place in
Tehran in May 2008 that, if the information upon which it was based were true, it would constitute a
programme for the development of a nuclear weapon. Attachment 2 to this Annex reproduces the results
of the Agency’s assessment as it was presented by the Secretariat to the Member States in the technical
briefing which took place in February 2008.
Quote:
The Agency obtained information in 2005 from a Member State indicating that, in 1997,
representatives from Iran had met with officials from an institute in a nuclear-weapon State to request
training courses in the fields of neutron cross section calculations using computer codes employing Monte
Carlo methodology, and shock wave interactions with metals. In a letter dated 14 May 2008, Iran advised
the Agency that there was nothing to support this information. The Agency has also been provided with
information by a Member State indicating that, in 2005, arrangements were made in Iran for setting up
projects within SADAT centres (see Section C.1 and Attachment 1), inter alia, to establish a databank for
“equation of state” information42 and a hydrodynamics calculation centre. The Agency has also been
provided with information from a different Member State that, in 2005, a senior official in SADAT
solicited assistance from Shahid Behesti University in connection with complex calculations relating to
the state of criticality of a solid sphere of uranium being compressed by high explosives.
Quote:
Information provided to the Agency by two Member States relating to modelling studies alleged to
have been conducted in 2008 and 2009 by Iran is of particular concern to the Agency. According to that
information, the studies involved the modelling of spherical geometries, consisting of components of the
core of an HEU nuclear device subjected to shock compression, for their neutronic behaviour at high
density, and a determination of the subsequent nuclear explosive yield. The information also identifies
models said to have been used in those studies and the results of these calculations, which the Agency has
seen. The application of such studies to anything other than a nuclear explosive is unclear to the Agency.
It is therefore essential that Iran engage with the Agency and provide an explanation.
Quote:
Hydrodynamic experiments such as those described above, which involve high explosives in
conjunction with nuclear material or nuclear material surrogates, are strong indicators of possible weapon
development. In addition, the use of surrogate material, and/or confinement provided by a chamber of the
type indicated above, could be used to prevent contamination of the site with nuclear material. It remains
for Iran to explain the rationale behind these activities.
Quote:
In 2008, Iran told the Agency that it had developed EBWs for civil and conventional military
applications and had achieved a simultaneity of about one microsecond when firing two to three
detonators together,37 and provided the Agency with a copy of a paper relating to EBW development work
presented by two Iranian researchers at a conference held in Iran in 2005. A similar paper was published
by the two researchers at an international conference later in 2005.38 Both papers indicate that suitable
high voltage firing equipment had been acquired or developed by Iran. Also in 2008, Iran told the Agency
that, before the period 2002–2004, it had already achieved EBW technology. Iran also provided the
Agency with a short undated document in Farsi, understood to be the specifications for a detonator
development programme, and a document from a foreign source showing an example of a civilian
application in which detonators are fired simultaneously. However, Iran has not explained to the Agency
its own need or application for such detonators.

The Agency recognizes that there exist non-nuclear applications, albeit few, for detonators like
EBWs, and of equipment suitable for firing multiple detonators with a high level of simultaneity.
Notwithstanding, given their possible application in a nuclear explosive device, and the fact that there are
limited civilian and conventional military applications for such technology, Iran’s development of such
detonators and equipment is a matter of concern, particularly in connection with the possible use of the
multipoint initiation system referred to below.
Quote:
Iran has denied conducting the engineering studies, claiming that the documentation which the
Agency has is in electronic format and so could have been manipulated, and that it would have been easy
to fabricate.45 However, the quantity of the documentation, and the scope and contents of the work
covered in the documentation, are sufficiently comprehensive and complex that, in the Agency’s view, it
is not likely to have been the result of forgery or fabrication. While the activities described as those of
Project 111 may be relevant to the development of a non-nuclear payload, they are highly relevant to a
nuclear weapon programme.
Plenty to discuss in the topic document. No need for distractions to keep the thread going....

Mars II - American Scientist
PhD - Physical Chemistry
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(10-Nov-2011 at 10:48)


Quote:
So we should arm them all and let them have a nuclear standoff? Great idea, hope it works out.
You are happy to arm Israel. How is that working out for you? Peaceful there, is it?

If you don't want a nuclear standoff, get rid of Israel's nukes, as Israel refuses to join NPT, and refuses to allow any inspections at all. You, of course, are completely okay with a warmongering country, outside the control of NPT, possessing un-inspected nukes. Because this is not really about nukes at all, is it Mars? You just lack the balls to be honest.

I see that, as I predicted, you can't explain your double standards.


Quote:
The thread is about the new report on Iran actually. Take your Jew bashing to one of the many other threads or make your own.
That Isreal-Jew distinction is really difficult for you...

I have already proven that Israel really does want to attack Iran. It is a fact, no matter how much you want to avoid it. A statement of fact is not 'Jew bashing' or any other kind of bashing.

You are ignoring proven fact just because it contradicts your pet ideology.


Quote:
A distraction from such things as:
...such as a load of inane stuff that is just like the stuff in the last report, and the one before that, and the one before that, blah blah blah. There is nothing to say, but you are one of those people that just has to say something.

People like you have been screaming "Waah! Iran's about to build a bomb!!" for decades and that mystical bomb has never appeared. You will probably still be howling about it 2021 and there will still be no bomb.

Seriously, how many times are you going to howl about this bomb that doesn't exists before it sinks in that it... well... doesn't exist?

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." But let it be considered that he did not mean a real and generous love of our country, but that pretended patriotism which so many, in all ages and countries, have made a cloak of self- interest.
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(10-Nov-2011 at 12:43)


Quote:
So we should arm them all and let them have a nuclear standoff? Great idea, hope it works out.
Well techically you were the one who introduced this idea. Remember the whole MAD thing? And Pakistan and India both have nukes and are not exactly friendly to each other already and so far it has worked out. Trying to make it sound super scary by calling nuclear stand off won't really change the fact that it's not really that much of a big deal that Iran has a nuke or two


Quote:
Then you haven't thought it out much.
Yes I am afraid I am not as prone to paranoid delusions as some people

Quote:
The thread is about the new report on Iran actually. Take your Jew bashing to one of the many other threads or make your own.
How is acknowledging fact and history bashing someone? Or are your arguments so poor that you prefer just to whine

Quote:
What it is, is an idiotic distraction from the actual topic: the report. A distraction from such things as:
No that's actually pondering about the reasons and consequences of this report. And one of the most logical things to do is look at the historic precedent with Iraq where Israel invaded it's air space and bombarded the nuclear reactor. It's seems completley logical that such reports are a prelude to a similar event. Is this so hard to understand really? Hmm I guess so

The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common; they don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit the views

Last edited by DHoffryn, 10-Nov-2011 at 12:44.
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(10-Nov-2011 at 15:22)


Re: Report: Iran developing nuclear bombs

Originally Posted by DHoffryn: View Post
This is about Israel not jews. There is a difference you know. One is a religion the other is a country who has already once launched an attacked a nuclear program in a foreign country before. If you think this is not a logical issue to bring into this discussion or a quitea reasonable prediction frankly you are an idiot
No its about a country that publically says time after time another country/people shouldnt exist gettign nukes and it hat doesnt bother you your an idiot.

Doesnt matter the brits are already planning to take out the plant before iserael has to.

Never Forget

September 11, 2001
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(10-Nov-2011 at 17:08)


Originally Posted by Invictus2001:
No its about a country that publically says time after time another country/people shouldnt exist gettign nukes and it hat doesnt bother you your an idiot.
Israel was lying when they told everyone Iran had said that, and anyone still bothered by that lame, discredited bit of propaganda is an idiot. It was a huge Israeli lie, as neither Israel, nor a map, is mentioned. The biggest joke is that Ahmadinejad was quoting Khomeini!

I guess there will always be people who ignore facts in favour of their pet ideologies, but why is always right-wing nuts?


Originally Posted by DHoffryn:
Yes I am afraid I am not as prone to paranoid delusions as some people
It looks like paranoia, but the paranoia is so irrational that I really wonder. There is only one country that has nuked another and that was way back in 1945. Here we are 66 years later, with several countries 'facing off' as Mars puts it, but nobody flinging nukes.

Yet these nuts expect us to believe that Iran, uniquely, will immediately use a nuke if they get one. What reason do these nuts give for believing that would happen? None. None at all. It is just some crap they have invented because it fits their agenda. It is not paranoia, it is looking for an excuse to attack Iran, in the same that all the lies they told about WoMD in Iraq was just an excuse to attack.

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." But let it be considered that he did not mean a real and generous love of our country, but that pretended patriotism which so many, in all ages and countries, have made a cloak of self- interest.
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(10-Nov-2011 at 17:56)


Originally Posted by Invictus2001: View Post
No its about a country that publically says time after time another country/people shouldnt exist gettign nukes and it hat doesnt bother you your an idiot.
Political ranting is nothing new. I fail to see why this should bother me especially. You could have at least some amount of argument if it was about North Korea with their rather unstable dictator but Iran has shown me no signs that it would gladly self destruct just to take out one or two cities in Isreal. It seems much more likely that they use the nukes as a deterant. Although frankly I doubt they would bother with nukes. Even if the USA wasn't on the verge of an economic disaster it's pretty much out of the question for it to even try the insanity of invading a large country like Iran in the next 15-20 years. And by then China will be in charge anyway

Quote:

Doesnt matter the brits are already planning to take out the plant before iserael has to.
I doubt it. That's the whole point of Isarel. To be around to do the dirty work


Quote:
I guess there will always be people who ignore facts in favour of their pet ideologies, but why is always right-wing nuts?
Actually there is just as many who do this on the left as well it's just not so obvious since well the visuals are different as we can see with comparsion of the Occupy vs Tea Party thing

The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common; they don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit the views
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(10-Nov-2011 at 20:22)


Originally Posted by DHoffryn: View Post
Well techically you were the one who introduced this idea. Remember the whole MAD thing? And Pakistan and India both have nukes and are not exactly friendly to each other already and so far it has worked out. Trying to make it sound super scary by calling nuclear stand off won't really change the fact that it's not really that much of a big deal that Iran has a nuke or two
So far, neither has lost their nuclear material and one is sharing it with the likes of North Korea and Iran. Works great huh?

Quote:
Yes I am afraid I am not as prone to paranoid delusions as some people
Yes, truly immune to thought. How lucky for you. Must be easy having a one track mind in this forum.

Quote:
How is acknowledging fact and history bashing someone? Or are your arguments so poor that you prefer just to whine
The report was scheduled a long time ago. In fact, many have been waiting for this report. It wasn't whipped up on the fly to justify your fantasy scenario. But you do seem to insist on talking about them Jews. One track mind.

Quote:
No that's actually pondering about the reasons and consequences of this report.
Only as it pertains to the country not mentioned in the report, not on the board of governors of the IAEA, and not in the NPT. Gosh, it sure does seem like you'd rather talk about Jews rather than the topic. How about that huge list of actual issues? Go ahead and ignore them in favor of your favorite topic. Makes your evasion seem all that more obvious.

Quote:
And one of the most logical things to do is look at the historic precedent with Iraq where Israel invaded it's air space and bombarded the nuclear reactor.
Historical precedent like North Korea bullshitting the IAEA for as long is a it could and then leaving the NPT and building a bomb?

Quote:
It's seems completley logical that such reports are a prelude to a similar event. Is this so hard to understand really? Hmm I guess so
Is it so hard to understand that the report was scheduled to be released a while ago? The IAEA has been releasing reports for a long time. Seems like you are more prone to paranoid delusions than you think. Every one of those reports is just another Jew conspiracy (even though they aren't on the IAEA board of governors).

Anyway, as I thought, the report speaks for itself. There is no point in even denying or reading the specifics because you people have no argument. Already trying to decry the whole thing as a political ploy. Iran is developing nuclear weapon technology and all that its defenders can do is screech about Israel, like the do in every other thread.

Quote:
always end up shouting insults. Is that really what you imagine is 'constructive'?
First post: wing nut, irrational people, idiot
Second post: that quote

Guess that's how the Jew haters work. Start shouting insults and then whine and the mere hint that they may be called on their Jew hating bullshit. Good thread everyone, you ran crying like I expected.

Mars II - American Scientist
PhD - Physical Chemistry

Last edited by Mars II, 10-Nov-2011 at 20:29.
#18  
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Posts: 2799/2825
(10-Nov-2011 at 21:00)


Quote:
So far, neither has lost their nuclear material and one is sharing it with the likes of North Korea and Iran. Works great huh?
Your argument or at least an attempt of an argument was that Iran having a nuclear warhead would cause a nuclear standoff with Israel which would be extremely dangerous. My counter was that India and Pakistan are already at your nuclear stand off and can in fact actually soak up a few nukes and yet it's still working out

Are you now going for another argument? If so by all means eleborate

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Yes, truly immune to thought. How lucky for you. Must be easy having a one track mind in this forum.
I have no idea but you seem to have mastered it

Quote:
The report was scheduled a long time ago. In fact, many have been waiting for this report. It wasn't whipped up on the fly to justify your fantasy scenario. But you do seem to insist on talking about them Jews. One track mind.
Is it so hard to understand that the report was scheduled to be released a while ago? The IAEA has been releasing reports for a long time. Seems like you are more prone to paranoid delusions than you think. Every one of those reports is just another Jew conspiracy (even though they aren't on the IAEA board of governors).
Why would it be whipped up on the fly? Do you think that this is how foreign policy and military strategy works? Something you make up on the spot? I think you fundamnetally misunderstand how politics and military work. And I am stil baffled by your obsession with generalizing jews.

Quote:
Only as it pertains to the country not mentioned in the report, not on the board of governors of the IAEA, and not in the NPT. Gosh, it sure does seem like you'd rather talk about Jews rather than the topic. How about that huge list of actual issues? Go ahead and ignore them in favor of your favorite topic. Makes your evasion seem all that more obvious.
It's only really relevant issue since as I mentioned already I find it irrelevant that Iran has a nukes. However I am rather amused by how you accuse me of evasion when you are doing everything in your power to avoid my points about the logic of an upcoming Isareli attack

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Historical precedent like North Korea bullshitting the IAEA for as long is a it could and then leaving the NPT and building a bomb?
Yes that's not a horrible example. Much more innacurate but still semi good. Glad to see your finally getting it

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Anyway, as I thought, the report speaks for itself. There is no point in even denying or reading the specifics because you people have no argument.
Argument for what? As I told you I could care less about Iran's nuclear capability. It will change pretty much nothing

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Already trying to decry the whole thing as a political ploy. Iran is developing nuclear weapon technology and all that its defenders can do is screech about Israel, like the do in every other thread.
Wow talk about being a drama queen


Quote:
uess that's how the Jew haters work. Start shouting insults and then whine and the mere hint that they may be called on their Jew hating bullshit
Do you think that by repeating jew jew jew this somehow helps your arguments? Because honestly it doesn't. It's a common enough debate tactic to try and discredit your oponents by painting them as racists but that's not how you do it. You do it subtly not yell jew hater jew hater . That's just tacky. If you can't come up with good arguments can't you at least try to be more professional with your smear tactics? It's almost embarassing to watch you

The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common; they don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit the views
#19  
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(10-Nov-2011 at 22:41)


Originally Posted by DHoffryn: View Post
Your argument or at least an attempt of an argument was that Iran having a nuclear warhead would cause a nuclear standoff with Israel which would be extremely dangerous. My counter was that India and Pakistan are already at your nuclear stand off and can in fact actually soak up a few nukes and yet it's still working out
The argument you wish I had made is that it can't work out. The argument I do make is what if it doesn't? What if there is a nuclear war? What if they lose control of their nukes as Russia has done with a few? What if they decide to sell the technology? What if the regime makes a bomb and collapses? Your argument amounts to "nothing has happened with a handlful of other nations so it can't with Iran." Do I need to explain the fallacy?

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Are you now going for another argument? If so by all means eleborate
I wish more people would ask for help when they don't understand. Glad I could clear it up for you.

Quote:
I have no idea but you seem to have mastered it
I know it when I see it for it happens often here.

Quote:
Why would it be whipped up on the fly? Do you think that this is how foreign policy and military strategy works? Something you make up on the spot? I think you fundamnetally misunderstand how politics and military work. And I am stil baffled by your obsession with generalizing jews.
A better question is "Why is the board of governors of the IAEA working with Israel?" when the board consists of :Argentina, Australia, Belgium, Brazil, Bulgaria, Canada, Chile, China, Cuba, Czech Republic, Ecuador, Egypt, France, Germany, Hungary, India, Indonesia, Italy, Japan, Jordan, Korea, Republic of, Mexico, Netherlands, Niger, Portugal, Russian Federation, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, South Africa, Sweden, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, United Republic of Tanzania and United States of America. Do you really think that a majority of them are party to some paranoid delusion of a Jewish plot? Absurd.

Quote:
It's only really relevant issue since as I mentioned already I find it irrelevant that Iran has a nukes.
If you find the topic irrelevant then you have two legitimate options: don't post or find something relevant to the topic to say. You didn't have to find something to say about a topic you found irrelevant and don't wish to discuss.

Quote:
However I am rather amused by how you accuse me of evasion when you are doing everything in your power to avoid my points about the logic of an upcoming Isareli attack
Its nothing but a combination of paranoia and an obsession with Israel that results in the idea that report comes at the behest of Israel from the board of governors of the IAEA. Its delusional, full stop. I tire of this Jew bashing nonsense so if that is all you have to say, and you find the actual topic irrelevant; don't post. Simple?

Quote:
Yes that's not a horrible example. Much more innacurate but still semi good. Glad to see your finally getting it
Which part is inaccurate? North Korea leaving the NPT or Building a bomb afterward? Or them building a bomb afterward despite saying that they weren't leaving to do so?

Quote:
Argument for what? As I told you I could care less about Iran's nuclear capability. It will change pretty much nothing
So, no reason to be in this thread and no reason to post. So why did you bother if you had nothing to say about the topic? Again, you had the option of not posting.

Quote:
Wow talk about being a drama queen
Just calling it like it is.

Quote:
Do you think that by repeating jew jew jew this somehow helps your arguments? Because honestly it doesn't. It's a common enough debate tactic to try and discredit your oponents by painting them as racists but that's not how you do it. You do it subtly not yell jew hater jew hater . That's just tacky. If you can't come up with good arguments can't you at least try to be more professional with your smear tactics? It's almost embarassing to watch you
Blah Blah b Blah more "don't call my Jew bashing Jew bashing." Enough of this. You already established that you had no other reason for posting. So it is obvious that what I said is true: this is just a distraction from the topic, since you had no interest in the topic.

Mars II - American Scientist
PhD - Physical Chemistry
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