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Posts: 596/1288
(27-Aug-2004 at 20:22)


Spirit and Conciousness

What is consciousness? How does a man differ from a highly complex machine? What exactly is a spirit?

Atheists would say that "life" is just electrical signals buzzing about in the head. Maybe that is literally true?

I suggest that:
  • If some physical things are conscious, we can assume that all are conscious to some degree.
  • The basic unit of consciousness is the basic unit of matter the energy packet (e.g. a photon).
  • If a particle increased its level of consciousness, it could use its freedom (what we see as uncertainty) to control other particles.
  • A single photon of energy would be sufficient to control a human body.
  • Each person's consciousness could be traced to the single particle that controls the others.
    This organizing principle could be referred to as "spirit."
Is this crazy? You be the judge.

These are the three ways that religious people often like to hide from science:

"God of the Gaps"
Some people look for any gaps in science and tries to put God there. In ancient times, most people were happy to attribute almost everything directly to God, without asking "how". These days, believers still do not ask "how." They just push God back into one of three corners: (a) the origin of the universe, (b) the origin of life, and (c) human consciousness. This whole approach is basically a retreat. It says "we only need God where we can't think of another explanation."

"Science is stupid"
It is very common for people to say "science has nothing to say about love, beauty, feelings, etc." This is another way of hiding from science. The fact is that science has plenty to say about these things, but we don't want to listen!

"We haven't discovered it yet, but..."
This is a perfectly fair approach to take, since new discoveries are being made all the time. But what if the discoveries have been made, and we just did not notice? This is similar to the case of some Bible prophecies. We assume they are all set in the future, and do not notice when they have already been fulfilled.
All of these approaches show an unwillingness to look at scientific evidence. But if religion is any good (and it should be, having thrived for thousands of years) it should be able to cope with new information. Rather than say "no" to scientific theories, a better approach is to say, "since there are good reasons to believe in God, maybe I'll look again at the evidence."

(\ /)
( . .)
c('')('')

Last edited by MAPS, 27-Aug-2004 at 20:23.
#1  
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Posts: 224/1095
(27-Aug-2004 at 21:37)


It's a common curtesy to credit the author you are quoting.

http://www.whyprophets.com/prophets/consciousness.htm

good judgement mostly comes from experience and a lot of that comes from bad judgement...
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(27-Aug-2004 at 22:13)


Spirit = Soul
Consciousness = Also Soul or connected to it...

Generalization is rhetorics of simpletons.
"Sages learn from history... idiots learn from experience" -Fairy Tail manga
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(27-Aug-2004 at 22:46)


Quote:
(Originally posted by VonBooB)

It's a common curtesy to credit the author you are quoting.

http://www.whyprophets.com/prophets/consciousness.htm
Oops. Well I never think about links or nothing so I don't mean to plagerize. I'll try to remember from now on.

While I'm on the subject "the logic of a supreme being" thread is taken from that site as well.

(\ /)
( . .)
c('')('')
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(27-Aug-2004 at 23:17)


Quote:
(Originally posted by Lord Menchalior)

Spirit = Soul
Consciousness = Also Soul or connected to it...
I think that's obvious but what do you think spirit is? Is it matter or not?

(\ /)
( . .)
c('')('')
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(28-Aug-2004 at 03:27)


Quote:
(Originally posted by MAPS)

I think that's obvious but what do you think spirit is? Is it matter or not?
I don't see how a spirit could be matter, because that is the part of you that is eternal and will be in Heaven with God. I've been under the impression for a while at least that God isn't made of matter, and assumed His kingdom wasn't either.

Also, matter isn't eternal is it?

Maybe it's something like light, but I think it's more likely something we can't comprehend. I know, I know, how convenient (sp?).

I'm not ashamed of the One I love.
[Our dream] eluded us then, but that's no matter tomorrow we will run faster, stretch out our arms farther. And one fine morning...
Hail Jesus, You're my Lord.
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(28-Aug-2004 at 03:44)


Quote:
(Originally posted by Victor1)
Also, matter isn't eternal is it?
I believe it is. After all you can't truly destroy matter with any chemical reaction. The most you can do is convert it to energy.

(\ /)
( . .)
c('')('')
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(28-Aug-2004 at 05:02)


Quote:
(Originally posted by MAPS)

I believe it is. After all you can't truly destroy matter with any chemical reaction. The most you can do is convert it to energy.
I don't really knkow, but I was kinda under the impression that it would naturally deteriorate. I wouldn't doubt if I was wrong though, cause I don't have a clue how it would do that.

I'm not ashamed of the One I love.
[Our dream] eluded us then, but that's no matter tomorrow we will run faster, stretch out our arms farther. And one fine morning...
Hail Jesus, You're my Lord.
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(28-Aug-2004 at 05:09)


Well it does decay over time but not into nothingness. It can become another form of matter or it could turn into energy or heat (like fire).

(\ /)
( . .)
c('')('')
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(28-Aug-2004 at 05:14)


matter is eternal, its form isnt

it can change forum, ill use energy as an example, from potential energy to kinetic engergy to heat.

Saint Sinner for President 2012
You're all fucking stupid
You're mafia, dont deny it.
Absalom
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(28-Aug-2004 at 05:22)


Quote:
(Originally posted by Victor1)
I don't see how a spirit could be matter, because that is the part of you that is eternal and will be in Heaven with God.
On another note, was not Jesus resurrected with a body and ascended to heaven? From all we can assume Jesus still inhabits that resurrected body. I've never heard anything to the contrary. Jesus hasn't died again has He? I think it's safe to assume he still has his body which is matter. His body won't deteriorate because it is now perfect and governed by spirit rather than mortal blood.

(\ /)
( . .)
c('')('')
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(28-Aug-2004 at 16:05)


It is possible that our spirit is made out of matter, and transforms into energy when we die. Matter/Energy cannot be created or destroyed, ever, to our knowledge. Matter is energy, and energy is matter, they are merely different states of the smae thing, like ice to water to water vapor.

"In the end, all that is left is Change."
"That which does not embrace change will be destroyed by it"
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."
"Nothing can be derived from nothing."
""There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes." ~ James Morrow
#12  
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(28-Aug-2004 at 17:01)


Anything is possible, because this goes beoynd human sciences and theories have barely scrathed anything material froming into energy and vice versa... Only theories exist so your guess is as good as is mine AoD...

And agains this is matter of belief and faith

Generalization is rhetorics of simpletons.
"Sages learn from history... idiots learn from experience" -Fairy Tail manga
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(28-Aug-2004 at 20:24)


Quote:
(Originally posted by MAPS)

On another note, was not Jesus resurrected with a body and ascended to heaven? From all we can assume Jesus still inhabits that resurrected body. I've never heard anything to the contrary. Jesus hasn't died again has He? I think it's safe to assume he still has his body which is matter. His body won't deteriorate because it is now perfect and governed by spirit rather than mortal blood.
I guess you're right. I have heard a lot that God will give us a new perfect body, but IMO a spirit is still not matter. I guess I don't have any proof, that's just what I believe.

I'm not ashamed of the One I love.
[Our dream] eluded us then, but that's no matter tomorrow we will run faster, stretch out our arms farther. And one fine morning...
Hail Jesus, You're my Lord.
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