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(Posted as Obi2Kenobi)
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(09-Jul-2005 at 07:11)


Difference in sin?

I posted some of this in a poll, but I have received no response.

I'm sure you've all heard the phrase "All sins are the same in the eyes of the lord."

Why the double standard with, say, homosexuality and masturbation? Many self-proclaimed Christians admit to regularly partaking in the latter, but condemn the former and claim that no Christian can belong to that group, and act as though it were an unforgivable sin. What's the difference between the two? I would imagine that they are both considered bad for the same reason.

"If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and if it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"
~Alexandr Solzhenitsyn
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(Posted as Loke Xero)
Posts: 497/502
(09-Jul-2005 at 09:27)


Re: Difference in sin?

Quote:
(Originally posted by Obi2Kenobi)

I posted some of this in a poll, but I have received no response.

I'm sure you've all heard the phrase "All sins are the same in the eyes of the lord."

Why the double standard with, say, homosexuality and masturbation? Many self-proclaimed Christians admit to regularly partaking in the latter, but condemn the former and claim that no Christian can belong to that group, and act as though it were an unforgivable sin. What's the difference between the two? I would imagine that they are both considered bad for the same reason.
They probably are in the eyes of the lord we dont know how he will judge us in the end. Your post brought the thought "who are we to judge somebody because of a lifestyle we disagree with" into my mind. Though in the wider community i think the difference is because Masturbation is an internal sign about yourself while Coming Out of the Closet homosexuality is considered an external sign...In all Honesty i dont like the lifestyle of homosexuality, i dont understand it for 1 thing, Girls are so much better, but that being said, i aint gonna enforce my opinion on people in that regard. Everything has double standards obi, its like the simpsons mafia quote, "Is it wrong to steal some bread for your starving family". Its just something people develop an opinion on and then try to justify the opinion.



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(09-Jul-2005 at 09:31)
Obviously there is no difference, you said it yourself. But this is what people do, no matter the creed. Maybe you could educate about this hypocrisy is the next bible class, amongst other things. What is it that you want to determine more specifically?
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(Post has been warned)
(09-Jul-2005 at 09:35)
Quote:
(Originally posted by Loke Xero)

Its just something people develop an opinion on and then try to justify the opinion.
They sure do, Loke, they sure do.
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(09-Jul-2005 at 20:29)


Quote:
(Originally posted by Loke Xero)

They probably are in the eyes of the lord we dont know how he will judge us in the end. Your post brought the thought "who are we to judge somebody because of a lifestyle we disagree with" into my mind. Though in the wider community i think the difference is because Masturbation is an internal sign about yourself while Coming Out of the Closet homosexuality is considered an external sign...In all Honesty i dont like the lifestyle of homosexuality, i dont understand it for 1 thing, Girls are so much better, but that being said, i aint gonna enforce my opinion on people in that regard. Everything has double standards obi, its like the simpsons mafia quote, "Is it wrong to steal some bread for your starving family". Its just something people develop an opinion on and then try to justify the opinion.
FYI homosexuality is not the persons falut unless you say that you can choose what you are before you are born. For those who are going to argue against me a study in some Europian contry showed that

1)Heterosexualls are responsive to the other sexes faramons resulting in them being intrested in the opposite sex
2)Homosexualls are drawn to there sme sexs faramons resulting in being intrested in the same sex

P.S. I agree with the statement from the simpsons
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(10-Jul-2005 at 04:14)


Hey Gotts. Nice topic.

A qualification: There is a huge precedent in the bible about public sin, which is no worse than any other sin, but public sin needs a public rebuttal. Hence, why you will see Christians taking up arms against a public idea, yet will let private sin remain up to the person who is involved and there will be no public rebuttal.

I believe all sin is the same, however, certain sins call for certain punishments. For instance, murder vs. theft. If I were to have a choice, I would make the punishment for murder much harsher than theft, because it affects people much more.

Where has my avatar gone?

The true meaning of silence
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(10-Jul-2005 at 07:22)


Errrm, I meant Obi, not Gotts >.<

Also:

Quote:
Why the double standard with, say, homosexuality and masturbation? Many self-proclaimed Christians admit to regularly partaking in the latter, but condemn the former and claim that no Christian can belong to that group, and act as though it were an unforgivable sin
Is there any particular verse that condemns masturbation? I thought that was a Roman Catholic ruling.

Where has my avatar gone?

The true meaning of silence
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(10-Jul-2005 at 08:18)
Quote:
(Originally posted by Gus Mackay)
Is there any particular verse that condemns masturbation? I thought that was a Roman Catholic ruling.
Supposedly the story about Onan condemns masturbation, but as so many others this is a very stretched interpretation. But then the Bible never condemns abortion either, and once you take into account vagaries of translation may not have much to say about homosexuality either. It certainly never condemns female homosexuality.

As a Christian you just have to accept that many of the rules laid down by the Church has little support in the Bible, while many of the commandments that are crystal clear in the Bible have no support from the Church, and this is equally true whatever denomination you follow.
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(10-Jul-2005 at 11:01)


Quote:
As a Christian you just have to accept that many of the rules laid down by the Church has little support in the Bible, while many of the commandments that are crystal clear in the Bible have no support from the Church, and this is equally true whatever denomination you follow.
No, i dont have to accept that. You're just making generalised statements. The ten commandments:

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'

FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbour's house; you shall not covet your neighbour's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbour's.'

My church honors all of these.

I dont think God exists, I know he exists. - Carl Jung
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(10-Jul-2005 at 12:53)
Quote:
(Originally posted by ramlamb)
TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'
You don't have a camera? No paintings or sculptures at home? Very unusual that.
Quote:
My church honors all of these.
What on Earth made you think those are the only commandments in the Bible. It's not even the only set of the ten commandments. Do you for example keep the feast of the unleavened bread? Do you follow "The first of the first fruits of thy ground thou shalt bring unto the house of the Lord thy God"? (Exo 34).

None of those commandments mentions abortion, homosexuality, masturbation etc. Do you also honor the commandment not to wear clothes with mixed fibres etc? It's time to bring up the letter to Dr Laura again:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/drlaura.asp
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(Posted as Lodewijk)
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(10-Jul-2005 at 12:55)


Quote:
What on Earth made you think those are the only commandments in the Bible. It's not even the only set of the ten commandments. Do you for example keep the feast of the unleavened bread? Do you follow "The first of the first fruits of thy ground thou shalt bring unto the house of the Lord thy God"? (Exo 34).
Errr, forgive me if I'm wrong here, and Christians out there correct me, but didn't Jesus break the Covenant? So all that other stuff isn't actually necessary to Christianity?
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(10-Jul-2005 at 17:56)


Quote:
(Originally posted by ramlamb)

No, i dont have to accept that. You're just making generalised statements. The ten commandments:

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'

FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbour's house; you shall not covet your neighbour's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbour's.'

My church honors all of these.
What about the other 500 commandments that Mossous (sp) gave the Jews you ever even heard of them let alone follow them.

For any who say they don't exist they do I know many (at least 30) jews who have confirmed this at some point

BTW does your church have any statue/stained glass picture/anything of Jeusus. Well if ypu are a christian then you have a likeness of God.

Last edited by wswordsmen, 10-Jul-2005 at 17:59.
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(10-Jul-2005 at 20:05)


All sins are equal, except one. One sin is above rest and one sin is something that God cannot forgive: Blazphemizing Holy Spirit. When you do that, you make sin... you cannot be forgiven....

Generalization is rhetorics of simpletons.
"Sages learn from history... idiots learn from experience" -Fairy Tail manga
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(10-Jul-2005 at 23:31)
Quote:
(Originally posted by Lodewijk)
Errr, forgive me if I'm wrong here, and Christians out there correct me, but didn't Jesus break the Covenant? So all that other stuff isn't actually necessary to Christianity?
Some Christians claim this, but Jesus stated that he didn't change one letter of the Law, he just added a more strict interpretation of it.
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(11-Jul-2005 at 01:52)


Quote:
(Originally posted by Bernel)
You don't have a camera? No paintings or sculptures at home? Very unusual that.
Thats the commandment about making Idols, not making pretty pictures to hand on your walls. A different interpretation is (from the NIV):

"You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth below or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them;"

My Band
How many bass players does it take to change a light bulb?
5. One to change it, and the other 4 to hold the guitarists back who are trying to hog the light.
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(11-Jul-2005 at 05:23)


Quote:
What about the other 500 commandments that Mossous (sp) gave the Jews you ever even heard of them let alone follow them.

For any who say they don't exist they do I know many (at least 30) jews who have confirmed this at some point

BTW does your church have any statue/stained glass picture/anything of Jeusus. Well if ypu are a christian then you have a likeness of God.
Theres 613 of them, and they're called the Mitzot. (Cant believe i actually knew that.) But they are not The Commandments.
What was said was
Quote:
while many of the commandments that are crystal clear in the Bible
I consider the commandments to be the ten commandments, which are crystal clear. It is true that Christians do not follow the 613 Mitzot, i dont dispute that. But they are not the commandments.

Quote:
None of those commandments mentions abortion, homosexuality, masturbation etc. Do you also honor the commandment not to wear clothes with mixed fibres etc? It's time to bring up the letter to Dr Laura again:
If you say that there are more commandments than the ten, then yes it is mentioned. To not commit homosexuality is one of the 613 mitzvot. But i never claimed that the church Said things that werent in the bible anyway, i just said that they followed the commandments, which they do.

I dont think God exists, I know he exists. - Carl Jung

Last edited by ramlamb, 11-Jul-2005 at 05:28.
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(11-Jul-2005 at 12:11)
Quote:
(Originally posted by ramlamb)
I consider the commandments to be the ten commandments, which are crystal clear.
Then what do you call all the other rules in the Bible, and why do you think it is unimportant to follow them? Forget about the Jewish Mitzot, just read the Bible.

As far as the ten commandments being crystal clear. Which of the two different versions in the Bible is it that you adhere to? There is not even ten of them, which is why different churches have tried to lump them together in different ways to reach the right number:
http://www.positiveatheism.org/crt/whichcom.htm
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(11-Jul-2005 at 12:38)


Quote:
Then what do you call all the other rules in the Bible, and why do you think it is unimportant to follow them? Forget about the Jewish Mitzot, just read the Bible.
Forget about the Mitzvot and read the bible? Thats a contradictory statement- the Mitzvot come from the bible. Which part are I meant to be forgetting about and which part am i meant to be reading?

Quote:
As far as the ten commandments being crystal clear. Which of the two different versions in the Bible is it that you adhere to? There is not even ten of them, which is why different churches have tried to lump them together in different ways to reach the right number:
http://www.positiveatheism.org/crt/whichcom.htm
Gee, positive Athiesm. Now that's got to be a website thats presenting a completly neutral and objective viewpoint on religious matters.

I dont think God exists, I know he exists. - Carl Jung
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(Posted as Lodewijk)
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(11-Jul-2005 at 12:45)


Quote:
Gee, positive Athiesm. Now that's got to be a website thats presenting a completly neutral and objective viewpoint on religious matters.
If you are insinuating that something is biased or subjectively tainted, why don't you actually read the thing before dismissing it as useless? You wouldn't think the Christian Science Monitor had anything worthwhile to say about scientific matters, but I sure find it interesting to read.

Or perhaps, you just aren't willing to read it because it might provoke some uncomfortable thoughts.
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(11-Jul-2005 at 14:30)
Quote:
(Originally posted by ramlamb)
Forget about the Mitzvot and read the bible? Thats a contradictory statement- the Mitzvot come from the bible. Which part are I meant to be forgetting about and which part am i meant to be reading?
I am not familiar with the Jewish religious writings. If you say the Mitzvot only is a collection of commands from the Bible and not from any of the other religious texts not recognized by Christians I have no reason to disbelieve you. However, this doesn't answer my question:
What do you call all the other rules in the Bible, and why do you think it is unimportant to follow them?
Quote:
Gee, positive Athiesm. Now that's got to be a website thats presenting a completly neutral and objective viewpoint on religious matters.
The part I expected you to look at were simply quotes from the Bible and from the version of the Ten commandments used by different churches. Do you think that they become suspect just by being published on an atheist website?

Last edited by BrandonC, 11-Jul-2005 at 16:21.
Edit reason: Fixed quote tag
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