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Posts: 2015/2095
Donated $0.52
(28-Jan-2003 at 01:25)


Quote:
(Originally posted by ton4052)

yes christians have different view...the doctrines...theologies...stuff...

but all Christians believe in one thing...God is God and you are not...you are a sinners and God saved you by sending His Son to die on the Cross...
John 3 : 1 6 summarize the whole Bible...and what i just said
a) Christian view isn't defined by doctrines and theologies. Christianity is a group of religions with no one set belief. There is no central Christian institution.
b) John 3,16 may say Jesus was sent, but it doesn't say everything is literal, or that all Christians must believe God exists, period.

If you want to say I'm not a Chrsitian because of my beliefs, go ahead. But, you'll have to argue against a few preists, a handfull of other Chrsitians, Bishop Sartoris of the Los Angeles Diocese, and Cardinal Roger Mahony. They share similar beliefs as I do.

In brightest day, in blackest night, No evil shall escape my sight.
Let those who worship evil's might, Beware my power, Green Lantern's Light
Slave of Justara
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#241  
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Posts: 48/53
(28-Jan-2003 at 07:36)


People use religion as a blank check to explain away things that science can't presently explain. It seems like every day science makes a discovery and the religious folk are there to give a reason for it to be wrong. It must feel great to think that a blood transfusion could save your lifestyle (if you have sickle-cell), but your religion says no, and so you die. Life must be sooo much more full with all those taboos placed on you. I'm sure this "power" is something quite opposite of the power to choose. One can choose to look at religion as if they were looking at a beautiful cathedral (Notre-Dame de la sacre coeur for example) from both the outside and inside. On the outside, the structure, artwork, and architecture are beautiful, but inside it's dark, musty, crumbling, and cold. One could attribute those respects to many a religion.

[Insert politically correct sig here]
#242  
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Posts: 2016/2095
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(29-Jan-2003 at 00:21)


Quote:
(Originally posted by Freez3L)
People use religion as a blank check to explain away things that science can't presently explain.
Then justify religious scientists.
Quote:
It seems like every day science makes a discovery and the religious folk are there to give a reason for it to be wrong.
Can you give a modern example? And, since you're directing this to the mass of religion, try not to include radicals.
Quote:
It must feel great to think that a blood transfusion could save your lifestyle (if you have sickle-cell), but your religion says no, and so you die. Life must be sooo much more full with all those taboos placed on you. I'm sure this "power" is something quite opposite of the power to choose.
Which religion says you can't have a blood transfusion? The pastor of my church just had dialysis and a transfusion a month or so ago.
Quote:
One can choose to look at religion as if they were looking at a beautiful cathedral (Notre-Dame de la sacre coeur for example) from both the outside and inside. On the outside, the structure, artwork, and architecture are beautiful, but inside it's dark, musty, crumbling, and cold. One could attribute those respects to many a religion.
Exactly how? Which aspects of religion are you attributing? What I've gathered from my experience from religion are morals, values, and a sense of a purpose in life. To excell and do the best I can.

I'd also like to see the general prospects of all the faiths in the world attributed to those, as justification to your statement. And, by religion, I'm assuming that you're talking of any belief or faith in something higher, and not of the institution.

In brightest day, in blackest night, No evil shall escape my sight.
Let those who worship evil's might, Beware my power, Green Lantern's Light
Slave of Justara
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#243  
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(Posted as HurleyBD)
Posts: 312/2385
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(29-Jan-2003 at 08:48)


You dont need religion to have morals. If think you do there is something wrong with you.

Life is a test and I get bad marks.
#244  
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(Posted as Lord Drizzt)
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(29-Jan-2003 at 09:22)


science cant explain right vs. wrong. religion explains that.

s o u l f i r e
#245  
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(29-Jan-2003 at 10:01)


Quote:
(Originally posted by HurleyBD)

You dont need religion to have morals. If think you do there is something wrong with you.
granted u can somehow develop some type of moral system out of religion, but without religion what basis is there in such moral systems?

Just for example, why SHOULDN'T we steal? it's beneficial to ourselves, after all... maybe you're thinking bout 'human rights' of the person u want to steal from, but why should he/she have any rights at all?

In college last year we had a compulsary Moral Education class, a lot of theories and all, like social morality, every1 doing what's best for society as a whole, but all that nonsense just doesn't make sense, WHY in the first place should we be doing anything for any1 other then ourselves?

I don't think you can really have moral values without some religious grounding at least... basically moral values assume that other ppl have some worth, and they wouldn't unless you assume that God said so, or God made them, or something like that....
#246  
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(Posted as HurleyBD)
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(30-Jan-2003 at 00:02)


No, morals are based on feelings. I dont steal because I know I am taking something that someone else might have worked hard for and means something to them. Religion, science, it all comes from us. I can make a list of commandments right here, does that mean I needed a religion to base them upon? Morals are just common sense. Religion does teach morals, but that is only because man created religion.

Life is a test and I get bad marks.
#247  
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(30-Jan-2003 at 06:23)
Religion teaches morals but morals dont teach having fun. What would you want? morals or a helluva good time on a saturday nite?
#248  
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(30-Jan-2003 at 09:55)
Quote:
(Originally posted by HurleyBD)

No, morals are based on feelings. I dont steal because I know I am taking something that someone else might have worked hard for and means something to them. Religion, science, it all comes from us. I can make a list of commandments right here, does that mean I needed a religion to base them upon? Morals are just common sense. Religion does teach morals, but that is only because man created religion.
i know that if i don't steal, i will have nothing to myself..... why should we bother whether other people work hard enough for the thing.... i would only know i work hard enough to steal in this case...... morals are not common sense, it is the teaching from elders when you are young that you should not steal and that is why you will feel something uneasy in you to tell you not to steal..... it is the teaching from religon that has influence the morals... morals are not common sense, it is a sense of righteous differentiated by religon..... man don't create religon, God did......

it is God that created the righteous path (morals) so that man can follow it ..... and the religon made it a common sense to follow God's word....... not the other way round which you have described.....
#249  
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(Posted as HurleyBD)
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(30-Jan-2003 at 10:43)


You just said there was no such thing as morals, then that god created them. So then there must be morals?

We bother because we care. So you are saying you would be bad if you didnt believe in god? Do I seem bad? I care for others lives and just said I have morals, yet I believe in no god. Isnt that, in itself, proving I am correct?

Life is a test and I get bad marks.
#250  
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(31-Jan-2003 at 02:39)


Quote:
(Originally posted by HurleyBD)

You just said there was no such thing as morals, then that god created them. So then there must be morals?

We bother because we care. So you are saying you would be bad if you didnt believe in god? Do I seem bad? I care for others lives and just said I have morals, yet I believe in no god. Isnt that, in itself, proving I am correct?
God created the rules I think that's what he meant

but the point I was making was not that you're bad or anything... just that your sense of morals is GROUNDED in religion, you don't believe in any religion, true, but your sense of values were influenced by your parents or your culture, they learnt it the same way, and when you go back in time the origin is always some religious teaching... morals have no basis otherwise... animals don't have them, and without our morals we would just be incredibly smart and dangerous (but puny in a physical sense) gorillas...
#251  
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(31-Jan-2003 at 02:46)


Quote:
(Originally posted by Ketam)

God created the rules I think that's what he meant

but the point I was making was not that you're bad or anything... just that your sense of morals is GROUNDED in religion, you don't believe in any religion, true, but your sense of values were influenced by your parents or your culture, they learnt it the same way, and when you go back in time the origin is always some religious teaching... morals have no basis otherwise... animals don't have them, and without our morals we would just be incredibly smart and dangerous (but puny in a physical sense) gorillas...
actually it seems animals do have morals. Altruism is prevelant throughout the animal kingdom. So is ritualised battles which ensure no one actually gets hurt. THere are even examples where thoses who dont follow the morals get punished for it by there own kind. As far as im concerned all morals stem from do as you would have done to yourself. You may think that came from religion, but its a concept thats been around for millions of years and as such a concept that is pre religion. Religion just wrote down the unspoken rules of life and ethical behaviour it didnt invent them (except maybe a few about worship but then non believers dont follow those 'morals' anyway)

-:knowledge is meerly a degree of how strongly you belive something, if you know something then you believe it to be true beyond all doubt:-
#252  
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(31-Jan-2003 at 04:02)


Morals have been developed before and without religion. Religion is a tool to instill morals, but is not the only way. The Action vs. Consequence method suits fine.

In brightest day, in blackest night, No evil shall escape my sight.
Let those who worship evil's might, Beware my power, Green Lantern's Light
Slave of Justara
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#253  
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(01-Feb-2003 at 07:07)
i dont think u need to have religion for good morals, but religion encourages them, sets them out, and gives people a reason to abide by them
#254  
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