Utopia Temple
Main Forum Page Register an Account for Free! Calendar Frequently Asked Questions about this Board View New Posts Advanced Search Login
  Utopia Temple Forums > General Discussions > Respectable General Discussions > Religious Discussions

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Post New Thread Reply
Author Thread
Posts: 1020/4773
Donated $9.31
(01-Nov-2003 at 01:07)


I think some of the difference in Atheists and Religious ways of donating charity and having help-groups is the way they do it. Atheists dont have a diety to do this in the glory for, and they really see no point in going around allways saying that this organization was founded by atheists. Whereas Christians/Muslims/etc. probably will.

My MSN is still [email protected].
My Skype is kapteindynetrekk
#41  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Nimon Add Nimon to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 17/50
(01-Nov-2003 at 17:11)
ok how did religion cause all these things they would have mosly likely happened any ways.

so what you're saying is that religion put hate in the hearts of men

Ok lets see, The Crusades, The Spanish Inqusition, The Dark Ages. Now name something that Athiest have done so Horrible on a large scale.
#42  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Mysteryman64 Add Mysteryman64 to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
(User is Banned)
Posts: 969/1319
(01-Nov-2003 at 19:01)


Stalin's purges.

'The Cultural Revolution' of China under Mao

If you see the light at the end of the tunnel, then you passed the test.

Last edited by Cloud Strife, 01-Nov-2003 at 19:01.
#43  
View Public Profile Visit Cloud Strife's homepage Find more posts by Cloud Strife Add Cloud Strife to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 2292/2384
(01-Nov-2003 at 21:27)


Quote:
(Originally posted by derskine)

A question for atheist;
To what extent have atheist contributed to society?
Throughout our history religious groups have set up organizations for the betterment of mankind; Hospitals, for the sick and infirm, soup kitchens and shelters, for the homeless, treatment centers for the alcohol and drug addicted.
Have atheist done the same?
How about the two most important founders of the country, Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin (not to mention Thomas Paine). Both atheists.

"America was designed by genuises so that it could be operated by idiots."
#44  
View Public Profile Visit DavidFF7's homepage Find more posts by DavidFF7 Add DavidFF7 to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 211/352
(02-Nov-2003 at 04:39)


These atheist/christian/religious bashing threads trying to prove that one was worse/better for their past events are childish. I can't see how some poeple don't understand, it is not the label that you give someone that does the action. It is the person that does the action. Who cares what religion they were/are/was. THEY did the action, not what they call themselves. Yes, some organizations supported things. Does that mean that everyone of them supported it? Definatly not. Does that mean that those under the same title feel the same way about those actions? Once again no. Its the people that made the choice, not their beliefs. People are the same, no matter what they decide to call themselves. Religion is like a skin color. As soon as you get past the obvious differences, you will see that inside, we are all the same. We just make different decisions.

Both sides need to chill out.


btw - Ictous: Your post was hilarious. It made me laugh so hard. I can't believe people took it seriously. Even if you meant it to be serious, there is no way I could have taken it that way. (More proof that peeps need to chill.)
#45  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Donalbain Add Donalbain to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
(Posted as derskine)
Posts: 187/2162
(02-Nov-2003 at 05:00)


Quote:
(Originally posted by DavidFF7)

How about the two most important founders of the country, Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin (not to mention Thomas Paine). Both atheists.
Hmmmm;
Quote:

A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen. It is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus—very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselves Christians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its Author never said nor saw.
TJ to Charles Thomson (9 Jan. 1816), Bergh 14:385-86.
Quote:

My views of [the Christian religion] are the result of a life of inquiry and reflection, and very different from that anti-Christian system imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. To the corruptions of Christianity I am indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished anyone to be—sincerely attached to his doctrines in preference to all others.
TJ to Dr. Benjamin Rush (2l Apr. l803), Bergh 10:379-80.


Jefferson had written in 1819, "I never go to bed without an hour or half an hour's reading of something moral, whereon to ruminate in the intervals of sleep" -- to which Randall adds, "The book oftenest chosen . . . was a collection of extracts from the Bible." Henry Wilder Foote, "Introduction," The Jefferson Bible, 23

He was passionately devoted to the gospel of Jesus, which stirred him to the depths of his being and was the most powerful motive force in his life. Donald S. Harrington, "Foreword," The Jefferson Bible, 11

The practice of morality being necessary for the well-being of society, He has taken care to impress its precepts so indelibly on our hearts that they shall not be effaced by the subtleties of our brain. We all agree in the obligation of the moral precepts of Jesus, and nowhere will they be found delivered in greater purity than in his discourses. — TJ to James Fishback, Sept 27, 1809, Bergh 12:315. (1809.)
Quote:
I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep forever." --Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Virginia
Quote:
"The God who gave us life gave us liberty at the same time; the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them." --Thomas Jefferson: Rights of British America, 1774. Papers, 1:135
#46  
View Public Profile Find more posts by PatrioticSpirit Add PatrioticSpirit to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 473/673
(03-Nov-2003 at 04:06)


Quote:
(Originally posted by Donalbain)

These atheist/christian/religious bashing threads trying to prove that one was worse/better for their past events are childish. I can't see how some poeple don't understand, it is not the label that you give someone that does the action. It is the person that does the action. Who cares what religion they were/are/was. THEY did the action, not what they call themselves. Yes, some organizations supported things. Does that mean that everyone of them supported it? Definatly not. Does that mean that those under the same title feel the same way about those actions? Once again no. Its the people that made the choice, not their beliefs. People are the same, no matter what they decide to call themselves. Religion is like a skin color. As soon as you get past the obvious differences, you will see that inside, we are all the same. We just make different decisions.

Both sides need to chill out.
Well, what I cannot seem to fathom about these statements is your reasoning behind them. If you're really Christian, you should be endowed with the aspects of being Christian; whereas you should follow your teachings without doubt and carry out the disciplines required of you by believing in that religion and accepting that it -should- be the truth. However, what we find in this instance is that these people either aren't Christians, or that Christianity is fundamentally flawed in the fact that it can't quite snare the essence of humanity and teach to those people that would do wrong, but believe so whole-heartedly in Christianity, to follow the guidelines and disciplines. This goes with any set religion with principles, disciplines, and guidelines; if infact it is required of you to be devoted of them. Disregarding them is like treason, and subject to penalty. And regarding Christianity in this manner, there are penalties involved with disobeying the religious text. I'm sure many are quite aware of them, and I shouldn't need to explain further.

Another eye-opener: If the prospect of people disobeying their religious vows doesn't seem to puncture your jugular vein through agony in betrayal, then why care at all? Who cares if an individual becomes psychotic and somehow finds a way through a religious text to eliminate people? And who better to follow them? The brainwashed.. Those that would more likely follow someone blindly than think once for themselves and consider reason before a hierarchy system. We are very fortunate that the churches have lost their military power, just for this sole reason. True examples in medieval history of those that heard the beckoning call from the highest of clergymen, ordered to seek out and proclaim other rightfully owned lands as their own, and to effectively destroy cultures unlike their own. Is this not against the basic fundamentals of Christianity? How can so many betray their own religious beliefs? Some things just don't make sense to me..

As for us Atheists, what does it matter to you if you believe we help others or not? You're opposed to our beliefs anyways, so why should it matter? Ignorance is a common factor with Christianity. Excuse me if you think I'm being stereotypical. I shouldn't expect anything more, and I shouldn't expect to sway another's opinion if they've already laid it down in concrete. Do your own research about Atheism if you so wish, just as we do our own research into Christianity, or delve from our previous pasts. There's an entire web out there for you to search. And, whether you'd like to believe it or not, Atheism is devoted to the prosperity of one generation to the next. Christianity has been devoted to holding humanity back in time. If it were up to them, we'd still be living like barbarians.

Anyways, I've typed enough.

"Be wary of what lurks about when the darkness consumes you, for it is not the darkness you should be most afraid of, but those rays of light that should care to take advantage of your unhealthy state of mind."
#47  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Warlyik Add Warlyik to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 1/2
(08-Nov-2003 at 07:56)
Atheists
http://www.visi.com/~markg/atheists.html

Quotes from Various Sources
"More people have been killed in the name of God than for any other reason... Northern Ireland, the Middle East, Kashmire, the Inquisition, the Crusades, and the World Trade Center." - George Carlin (Admittedly comedic, but true)

"Atheism prevents Holy Wars." - Source Unknown

Furthermore, let me give you my personal example. I am an atheist myself, yet my parents force me to go to a religious school. Yet amazingly, I am far more charitable and caring than a good number of the religious people I know.

Atheists do make contributions to society. Thinking otherwise is rather close-minded.
#48  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Zekio Add Zekio to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 841/1869
(08-Nov-2003 at 08:57)


ohh what about stalins purges = or look at communist china. all athiests killing people, or how stalin sent all the eastern orthodox priest he could to the gulags

just strife that has been connected to religion has been sensationalized

militant Liberal Christian..funny string of words I got there
"when life gives you Lemons eat them whole..Peal and all"
-the great Ipoc
UNITE! SPARK THE FIRE!
#49  
View Public Profile Find more posts by jahwarrior Add jahwarrior to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Old HWG
(Posted as herewego)
Posts: 34/580
(09-Nov-2003 at 05:45)


Because it outweighs these acts.... they where bloody big acts though... and I do see your point... but, it doesn't detract from the argument that "More people have been killed in the name of God than for any other reason..."

SF, I love you I do!
Everytime someone gets warned, Starfriend cuddles a kitten. -V-
There is no place like home, there is no place like home, there is no place like home: AASQGASA
#50  
View Public Profile Find more posts by HWG Add HWG to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Old HWG
(Posted as herewego)
Posts: 35/580
(09-Nov-2003 at 05:51)


Personally though... I find it very hard to believe that those who commit such acts of aggression are in fact "religious".

It would seem pretty obvious within alot of the holy books that "killing" is not the done thing... yet through "interpretation" (or should I say "manipulation") the religions are used as an excuse to sway the masses and go to war.

SF, I love you I do!
Everytime someone gets warned, Starfriend cuddles a kitten. -V-
There is no place like home, there is no place like home, there is no place like home: AASQGASA
#51  
View Public Profile Find more posts by HWG Add HWG to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 1250/1675
Donated $5.32
(09-Nov-2003 at 08:44)


Quote:
(Originally posted by herewego)

Because it outweighs these acts.... they where bloody big acts though... and I do see your point... but, it doesn't detract from the argument that "More people have been killed in the name of God than for any other reason..."

But alot of people have been helped in the name of god as well.

-For those who fight all over the world.. fight for peace, fight for freedom, and fight for their lives..
Will someone please give Bush a BJ already so we can start the Impeachment?
#52  
View Public Profile Visit muirgein's homepage Find more posts by muirgein Add muirgein to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 480/673
(09-Nov-2003 at 16:21)


Quote:
(Originally posted by muirgein) But alot of people have been helped in the name of god as well.
And a lot of people have been helped by the governments they reside under. Your point? Maybe we should make our governments into religions and worship/praise our leadership! If anything, like I've said before, Christianity has been a detriment to society. If it were up to scriptures as such in the Bible, our lives would be exactly like 2000 years ago. If it weren't for people disregarding the Bible as nonsense, we wouldn't be living like this, and you most certainly wouldn't have a computer, microwave oven, etc. So, considering -that-, and what could've been, we're far better off now.

"Be wary of what lurks about when the darkness consumes you, for it is not the darkness you should be most afraid of, but those rays of light that should care to take advantage of your unhealthy state of mind."
#53  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Warlyik Add Warlyik to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
(Posted as RavEMasteR)
(User is Banned)
Posts: 937/2492
(09-Nov-2003 at 16:42)


WELCOME BACK WARLYIK!!! Haven't seen you in a while. Glad you could join us. Lot's have changed. The Big Three of Religion has now become The Big Two..., I'm agnostic now...

Yes, if we worship whoever it is who brings us blessings and help, we'd be worshipping the very dirt our government officers walked on.

God isn't the reason people have been helped. A drive to get a name does. After they get a good name among people, they start manipulating them, and people will just dismiss their actions as for their 'good.'

That was what I saw. When I was in church, they helped everyone. They had a very good name among the ranks of the government of Singapore and they certainly were of their own denomination. Hell, the church even opened a school called City Harvest Education Centre that guarantees TOTAL freedom of choice, but yet a 100% pass rate.

Well, here's what I have to say about them. For one or two weeks during my time there, they had their services dedicated to extorting money. They urged people to give more money to the church 'in the name of God.'

Those brainwashed puppets there gave generously. I was one of them. My pastor told stories(which I doubted it's credibility) about how he saw a little girl give to the tithe once, and again, and again, and again..., the list goes on. It also told of some churches where the members gave so much that they had to stop them from giving more. I believed him, and I gave till my wallet was empty.

However, there's one thing I didn't think of at that time. What the hell are they going to do with the money??? All the churches that they have planted all over the world are prosperous and self sustained. The Education Centre didn't need money from 16,000 people. What the hell did they do with it? Buy better drums? Buy better guitars? That's pretty selfish ain't it? BTW, the drums they have are already the top of the line; a nine-piece DW set worth S$16,000.

It then dawned upon me that something wasn't right. Today, I laugh at my friends whenever they talk about church. They have been brainwashed, and I don't think they will know that something's wrong till the day they see God in Heaven...

So you see..., sometimes, the church is what causes people to be peniless..., people like me.

And one day, I'll have them by their skin! I'll destroy their pride!

Religion is the mental disease of the masses.
"Once again, religion is like sniffing gasoline. Both cause permanant brain damage." -- Obsidian
#54  
View Public Profile Find more posts by dothackRAVE Add dothackRAVE to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 1253/1675
Donated $5.32
(09-Nov-2003 at 19:25)


Quote:
(Originally posted by Warlyik)

And a lot of people have been helped by the governments they reside under. Your point? Maybe we should make our governments into religions and worship/praise our leadership! If anything, like I've said before, Christianity has been a detriment to society. If it were up to scriptures as such in the Bible, our lives would be exactly like 2000 years ago. If it weren't for people disregarding the Bible as nonsense, we wouldn't be living like this, and you most certainly wouldn't have a computer, microwave oven, etc. So, considering -that-, and what could've been, we're far better off now.
It isn't God that fucks us over, its the church. There is a big difference and thats what you people need to learn.

-For those who fight all over the world.. fight for peace, fight for freedom, and fight for their lives..
Will someone please give Bush a BJ already so we can start the Impeachment?
#55  
View Public Profile Visit muirgein's homepage Find more posts by muirgein Add muirgein to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 481/673
(09-Nov-2003 at 23:41)


Quote:
(Originally posted by muirgein)

It isn't God that fucks us over, its the church. There is a big difference and thats what you people need to learn.
Well, I'd assume that if you followed Christianity closely enough that you'd not curse/cuss. But then again, I've been known to be wrong at times.. Although not very often.

Anyways, so you blame it on the Church? Who controls the Church? Those that believe most highly of God, no doubt. And with that, they believe in the scriptures that God supposedly influenced. So, really, it -is- God's fault that we get "fucked over". It isn't humanity's fault that the Bible is fundamentally flawed. It isn't humanity's fault that the Bible is contradictory. It isn't humanity's fault that there's no tangible evidence beyond the Bible that any such God exists. So, you blame it on humanity for what should be easily corrected by such a "perfect" God.

I don't really see much of a difference between the Church and God. The Church was created because of the Bible. The Church was created to follow the teachings of the Bible, and to spread them. The Bible was directly influenced by this supposed God. So, it all connects rather simply that the sole source of the "fucking over" is God. Who created us based on Christianity? God. Who allowed us to do all this, thusly? Then it was God. You can blame -everything- on God, because according to Christianity, we'd not be here without God. Nobody would have to endure any pain or suffering if this God didn't exist. Then again, even if he -did-, he -never- had to send us to this playground of judgment. Afterall, isn't he completely capable of forcing everything to his will? He did it enough times in the Bible, supposedly. Eh, Oh well, I'm not really here to play the blame-game on something that is most-likely non-existent.

I'm still pondering whether or not I should be glad to be back, Ravemaster, but I'm here. That's what counts. Go me.

"Be wary of what lurks about when the darkness consumes you, for it is not the darkness you should be most afraid of, but those rays of light that should care to take advantage of your unhealthy state of mind."
#56  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Warlyik Add Warlyik to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
(Posted as RavEMasteR)
(User is Banned)
Posts: 944/2492
(10-Nov-2003 at 01:29)


Well, I'm glad, at least...

However, I do not blame God. You have to admit, without him, we'd all be nothing at all. It's about choice. We chose to fuck the teachings of the Bible up. We chose to ignore evidence of the Bible no matter how solid it is, dismissing it as nonsense.

We have to accept that anything is possible, including one of our kind corrupting the true biblical teachings. We are not perfect, we have corrupted the teachings of the Bible. Therefore, I do not blame God. I think it's time humanity took some responsibility for their actions. Instead of pointing fingers, why not look at ourselves before we point?

Why bother about the speck in your brothers eye while you have a plank in your own?

Religion is the mental disease of the masses.
"Once again, religion is like sniffing gasoline. Both cause permanant brain damage." -- Obsidian
#57  
View Public Profile Find more posts by dothackRAVE Add dothackRAVE to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 1255/1675
Donated $5.32
(10-Nov-2003 at 02:44)


Quote:
(Originally posted by Warlyik)

Well, I'd assume that if you followed Christianity closely enough that you'd not curse/cuss. But then again, I've been known to be wrong at times.. Although not very often.

Anyways, so you blame it on the Church? Who controls the Church? Those that believe most highly of God, no doubt. And with that, they believe in the scriptures that God supposedly influenced. So, really, it -is- God's fault that we get "fucked over". It isn't humanity's fault that the Bible is fundamentally flawed. It isn't humanity's fault that the Bible is contradictory. It isn't humanity's fault that there's no tangible evidence beyond the Bible that any such God exists. So, you blame it on humanity for what should be easily corrected by such a "perfect" God.

I don't really see much of a difference between the Church and God. The Church was created because of the Bible. The Church was created to follow the teachings of the Bible, and to spread them. The Bible was directly influenced by this supposed God. So, it all connects rather simply that the sole source of the "fucking over" is God. Who created us based on Christianity? God. Who allowed us to do all this, thusly? Then it was God. You can blame -everything- on God, because according to Christianity, we'd not be here without God. Nobody would have to endure any pain or suffering if this God didn't exist. Then again, even if he -did-, he -never- had to send us to this playground of judgment. Afterall, isn't he completely capable of forcing everything to his will? He did it enough times in the Bible, supposedly. Eh, Oh well, I'm not really here to play the blame-game on something that is most-likely non-existent.

I'm still pondering whether or not I should be glad to be back, Ravemaster, but I'm here. That's what counts. Go me.
I'm not Christian.
And its not God that controlls the church, its man. Man thinks he can do what he wants in god's stead but he can't. You need to come to grips with the fact that its people who fuck people over, not god or any other deity.

-For those who fight all over the world.. fight for peace, fight for freedom, and fight for their lives..
Will someone please give Bush a BJ already so we can start the Impeachment?
#58  
View Public Profile Visit muirgein's homepage Find more posts by muirgein Add muirgein to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 483/673
(10-Nov-2003 at 03:49)


Quote:
(Originally posted by muirgein)

I'm not Christian.
And its not God that controlls the church, its man. Man thinks he can do what he wants in god's stead but he can't. You need to come to grips with the fact that its people who fuck people over, not god or any other deity.
Exactly. Because God doesn't exist. I'll be happy to blame humanity, because in my own mind it very much is humanity's fault. However, I don't take kindly to people that believe in some all-powerful being that can do anything it wants whenever it wants and send its own spiritual brethren that it created to a life of judgment when there needn't be such a life when there's already some eternal paradise that they can exist in without any need for any such place as "Hell", or a state of eternal damnation or destruction.

My point still stands. If you believe in God, you must accept that everything is as it is because of him. That includes all pain and torment in this life and the next (if there is one). And if that being chooses to give us free will, then we should not be judged later on because of that. There should be no favoritism, like that of which the Bible God portrays. The simple statements that we are doomed to some sort of Hell or purgatory because of opening our minds in life and not accepting some retarded excuse for a religion in our lives absolutely annihilates the concept of an all-compassionate and just God. People proclaim that God gave us free will; I say that God gave it to us only so he could strip it away. I loathe the concept of some moronic divine being that is described in the Bible.

But, the Bible obliterates its own position with its own words. It just takes way too long for people to understand that.

"Be wary of what lurks about when the darkness consumes you, for it is not the darkness you should be most afraid of, but those rays of light that should care to take advantage of your unhealthy state of mind."
#59  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Warlyik Add Warlyik to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 1256/1675
Donated $5.32
(10-Nov-2003 at 04:47)


Quote:
(Originally posted by Warlyik)

Exactly. Because God doesn't exist. I'll be happy to blame humanity, because in my own mind it very much is humanity's fault. However, I don't take kindly to people that believe in some all-powerful being that can do anything it wants whenever it wants and send its own spiritual brethren that it created to a life of judgment when there needn't be such a life when there's already some eternal paradise that they can exist in without any need for any such place as "Hell", or a state of eternal damnation or destruction.

My point still stands. If you believe in God, you must accept that everything is as it is because of him. That includes all pain and torment in this life and the next (if there is one). And if that being chooses to give us free will, then we should not be judged later on because of that. There should be no favoritism, like that of which the Bible God portrays. The simple statements that we are doomed to some sort of Hell or purgatory because of opening our minds in life and not accepting some retarded excuse for a religion in our lives absolutely annihilates the concept of an all-compassionate and just God. People proclaim that God gave us free will; I say that God gave it to us only so he could strip it away. I loathe the concept of some moronic divine being that is described in the Bible.

But, the Bible obliterates its own position with its own words. It just takes way too long for people to understand that.

Those are all christian concepts.

We put the torment on us, life doesn't have to be that way.
We make our own heaven and our own hell.

-For those who fight all over the world.. fight for peace, fight for freedom, and fight for their lives..
Will someone please give Bush a BJ already so we can start the Impeachment?

Last edited by muirgein, 10-Nov-2003 at 04:48.
#60  
View Public Profile Visit muirgein's homepage Find more posts by muirgein Add muirgein to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump:


All times are GMT+1. The time now is 10:38.

Powered by vBulletin (modified)
Copyright ©2000-2006, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.