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Posts: 403/2384
(07-Dec-2002 at 21:39)


"Atheist" Organisations for the Betterment of Society

Actually, I know of a few non-religious organisations that try to better society.

Hmm.. let me think.. the UN is one.. let's see.. UNESCO... International Red Cross... Peace corps... there are hundreds, I could go on for a long time.

Oh, organisations of Cuban doctors (best in the world in medical ability) go charitably all around Latin America at no charge, to aid the sick and unwell. And that is a non-religious group (an atheist one, if you will).

They don't call themselves 'atheists' because they don't feel the need to, unlike religious organisations who feel the need to make the fact known that they bring the word of God etc. etc.

"America was designed by genuises so that it could be operated by idiots."
#41  
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(07-Dec-2002 at 22:01)


Several info...

About the big bang theory. It states that energy cannot be created, nor destroyed. If this is so, and the big bang DID occur, where did it come from? In the theory, Stephen Hawking stated, paraphrasing, that in order for the universe to be created from nothing would be impossible.

What set off that Bang? Wouldn't it just be rediculous if you clapped your hands, and someone asks, "where did that come from?" and you say, "Nowhere."

Silly you people to think that the Bible is useless. There is only two possible ways that morals came about in this world. One is through the Bible, two is biological instinct.
I believe that the morals came from the Bible. Here's an example: Rape. Rape is morally wrong why? Because God's word prohibits it. Biologically, it is not incorrect because animals do it all the time. Rape is a form of forcive adaptation to pass on your genes to the next generation.

Furthermore, someone posted(I can't find the person), that the bible said that evolution is wrong. Where does it say that? People nowadays think that EVERY little thing that they may see as untrue in their eyes automatically must be said in the Bible. Uh... I don't think that they talked about dinosaurs or cloning in the first century. Stop confusing yourselves.

Why do people always believe that God's word contradicts science? I have no recollection of it saying that dinosaurs didn't happen or how old the universe is. The only wrong I have seen was the way some literalists have come up with bizzarre conclusions of the bible's teachings. And when those people are disproved, automatically, the Bible is wrong. And all for the sake of atheists remarks.

And again, the whole question of, "If God is real and caring, then why is he letting all this bad shit happen in this world?" People, how can a little finite human know more than God, who is infinite? God can see everything and he knows everything... then wouldn't it be slightly possible that to tolerate these bad shit that is happening, there must be some good to come out of it?

This story I got from the book, The Case for Faith. It is slightly deformed since I'm getting it off memory.
Here goes. To give you an example of the greater good through hurting, here's a story about a Bear, a Hunter, and a Trap.

A bear who finds himself caught in a trap is approached by a hunter. The hunter, full of compassion for the bear wants to help it. Thinking that the hunter is the enemy, the bear growls and strikes the front of the hunter. For its own good, the hunter shoots the bear full of drugs to knock it out. To get it out of the trap, the hunter now has to push its leg even further to release the spring of the trap, causing even more pain. Finally the bear is released. If the bear was conscious during that process, then it would've thought that the hunter was an enemy and tries to hurt him. But he didn't know that the hunter was trying to help since the bear isn't human, and doesn't think human.

For this reason, how can we know what God intends? We certainly don't think and can't think like God. In this analogy, the trap is all the bad shit, God is the hunter, and we are the bear.

I could go on full on all the Christian apologetics, but I have an exam to write in a few hours and I need some time to relax before I do it. So think about it, and God bless.
#42  
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(08-Dec-2002 at 02:04)


Re: "Atheist" Organisations for the Betterment of Society

Quote:
(Originally posted by DavidFF7)
Actually, I know of a few non-religious organisations that try to better society.

Hmm.. let me think.. the UN is one.. let's see.. UNESCO... International Red Cross... Peace corps... there are hundreds, I could go on for a long time.

Oh, organisations of Cuban doctors (best in the world in medical ability) go charitably all around Latin America at no charge, to aid the sick and unwell. And that is a non-religious group (an atheist one, if you will).

They don't call themselves 'atheists' because they don't feel the need to, unlike religious organisations who feel the need to make the fact known that they bring the word of God etc. etc.
Question- how do you know they're unified by total atheism?

In brightest day, in blackest night, No evil shall escape my sight.
Let those who worship evil's might, Beware my power, Green Lantern's Light
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#43  
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(Posted as Lord Drizzt)
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(08-Dec-2002 at 02:19)


Re: Several info...

tikipost

did u read genisis? the first mas was adam and the first woman was eve. care to explain how evolutionwise, there was a first man and first woman?

s o u l f i r e
#44  
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(08-Dec-2002 at 02:52)
Read my words carefully, I refer to organizations founded representing athiests. All of the ones that you mentioned are not officially religious, but were created by religous people.

The founding countries for UN, and UNESCO were nearly all officially Christian countries

Jean Henri Dunant, founder of the Red Cross was a Christian who also founded the YMCA

The Cuban docters are decent, but the best of nearly everything is found in the U.S. There is no way a third-world country has better docters than the US

As for the peace corps, it was first put into motion by JFK, an Irish Cathlic.

note there are no official athiest organizations that are activists in the betterment of people. They only say that they care. I quote www.athiest.com
"Religion has caused so much strife that it must be held in check before the environment deteriorates to the point that it cannot sustain life any longer. I'm NOT suggesting a "rebellious anarchy" or ANY type of violence (we've all seen enough of that). I'm suggesting education. That's the key to our survival. Educate the people on the problems and instill their help in solving them. What are we as "world citizens" to do?

I think the answer is simple (simple to state, difficult to practice). Form a cohesive organization and pool our resources so that we might "educate" the masses just like religions do."

Any one that says only religion believes its their way or the highway is mistaken.
#45  
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(08-Dec-2002 at 06:04)
Re: Christianity

Quote:
(Originally posted by Lord Drizzt)

How does everyone feel about christianity? Do you think it's reasonable or unreasonable? Do you have anything against christianity?
1.i feel it is unreasonable only because i can't believe in the holy trinity, or that a man could possible be G-d, or that G-d would take human shape when G-d could just talk to a person (like Moses or Abraham) as G-d's self

2.NO! I DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING AGAINST CHRISTIANITY, a while back during summer when i was posting here every day people took it the wrong way....I do not hate Christians, I have nothing against people who believe in Christ...some guy just sent me a message saying Jesus is lord and does not respect the fact that I can't force myself to believe in Christ...as i told this guy...the only reason I posted here in the first place was because i saw a post by someone saying that jesus is g-d and all jews go to hell...i don't think certain people here can realize that they have no proof they are right and i doubt anyone would like it if they were told by someone who can't prove anything that they are going to hell for not being a certain religion

3.I am sorry for this lecture and wasting your time, but i felt i seriously had to clear things up.....no i don't have anything against christianity but i don't believe in it and as long as you realize that then i have nothing to prove against you....you respect me and i'll respect you...you punch me and I'll take a lighter and light you on fire...in other words, if you leave me alone i won't bother you

this is mainly for that moron who just sent me a message and if you sent a reply to my message then i didn't get it because it said there as an invalid address after that second message i got
#46  
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(08-Dec-2002 at 06:19)


Re: Several info...

Quote:
(Originally posted by TikiPost)

About the big bang theory. It states that energy cannot be created, nor destroyed. If this is so, and the big bang DID occur, where did it come from? In the theory, Stephen Hawking stated, paraphrasing, that in order for the universe to be created from nothing would be impossible.

What set off that Bang? Wouldn't it just be rediculous if you clapped your hands, and someone asks, "where did that come from?" and you say, "Nowhere."

Silly you people to think that the Bible is useless. There is only two possible ways that morals came about in this world. One is through the Bible, two is biological instinct.
I believe that the morals came from the Bible. Here's an example: Rape.Rape is morally wrong why? Because God's word prohibits it. Biologically, it is not incorrect because animals do it all the time. Rape is a form of forcive adaptation to pass on your genes to the next generation.

Furthermore, someone posted(I can't find the person), that the bible said that evolution is wrong. Where does it say that? People nowadays think that EVERY little thing that they may see as untrue in their eyes automatically must be said in the Bible. Uh... I don't think that they talked about dinosaurs or cloning in the first century. Stop confusing yourselves.

Why do people always believe that God's word contradicts science? I have no recollection of it saying that dinosaurs didn't happen or how old the universe is. The only wrong I have seen was the way some literalists have come up with bizzarre conclusions of the bible's teachings. And when those people are disproved, automatically, the Bible is wrong. And all for the sake of atheists remarks.

And again, the whole question of, "If God is real and caring, then why is he letting all this bad shit happen in this world?" People, how can a little finite human know more than God, who is infinite? God can see everything and he knows everything... then wouldn't it be slightly possible that to tolerate these bad shit that is happening, there must be some good to come out of it?

This story I got from the book, The Case for Faith. It is slightly deformed since I'm getting it off memory.
Here goes. To give you an example of the greater good through hurting, here's a story about a Bear, a Hunter, and a Trap.

A bear who finds himself caught in a trap is approached by a hunter. The hunter, full of compassion for the bear wants to help it. Thinking that the hunter is the enemy, the bear growls and strikes the front of the hunter. For its own good, the hunter shoots the bear full of drugs to knock it out. To get it out of the trap, the hunter now has to push its leg even further to release the spring of the trap, causing even more pain. Finally the bear is released. If the bear was conscious during that process, then it would've thought that the hunter was an enemy and tries to hurt him. But he didn't know that the hunter was trying to help since the bear isn't human, and doesn't think human.

For this reason, how can we know what God intends? We certainly don't think and can't think like God. In this analogy, the trap is all the bad shit, God is the hunter, and we are the bear.

I could go on full on all the Christian apologetics, but I have an exam to write in a few hours and I need some time to relax before I do it. So think about it, and God bless.
not to rape is a moral that was aorund before the bible im sure. But anyway
Quote:
Biologically, it is not incorrect because animals do it all the time. Rape is a form of forcive adaptation to pass on your genes to the next generation
Biologically speaken it makes perfect sence. If you rape someone then you are gonna make that persons family angry and there probably gonna take revenge on you for it. Thus its better for everyone if you just dont rape in the first place. Morals tend to come about because we can put our selves in other peoples shows. Generally i live by the rule of Treat others how you want to be treated yourself. everything else can be worked out by this single simple rule. and i knew this rule before i ever read or heard of a bible
#47  
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(Posted as Lord Drizzt)
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(08-Dec-2002 at 06:51)


Re: Re: Christianity

Quote:
(Originally posted by nlh1)



1.i feel it is unreasonable only because i can't believe in the holy trinity, or that a man could possible be G-d, or that G-d would take human shape when G-d could just talk to a person (like Moses or Abraham) as G-d's self
just because u dont believe in the holy trinity it doesn't mean that christianity is unreasonable.

s o u l f i r e
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(08-Dec-2002 at 07:03)


Re: Re: Re: Christianity

Quote:
(Originally posted by Lord Drizzt)



just because u dont believe in the holy trinity it doesn't mean that christianity is unreasonable.
it is unreasonable for him/her because it expects him/her to believ in something he/she doesnt believe in which i think is quite unreasonable. He/she never said christianity was unreasonable just that he/she finds it so because he/she doesnt believe in part of it.
#49  
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(Posted as Lord Drizzt)
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(08-Dec-2002 at 07:08)


christianity doesn't demand that nlh1 believes in the holy trinity

s o u l f i r e
#50  
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(08-Dec-2002 at 07:08)


Quote:
Originally posted by Raptor Red
The Cuban docters are decent, but the best of nearly everything is found in the U.S. There is no way a third-world country has better docters than the US
Actually, you might want to check the facts before you make such arrogant statements about US doctors being the best?
And Cuba being a third-world country? Whatever man, I guess you haven't been there. The only reason it doesn't prosper in the first place is because of US trade sanctions. But that's beside the point.

And yes, Cuban doctors are nearly unparallelled in skill, yet they do not have the materials or facilities that American doctors have.

And Cuban doctors are atheist in belief, so I would consider this an atheist organisation.

And the main founder and leadership of the UN, might I remind you, are the United States of America. The United States ARE NOT an officially Christian country (I would know because I live there ).

And just because some people out of the thousands in the UN are religious, does not mean it is a religious organisation. It is COMPLETELY separated from religion, it has nothing, ZERO, to do with christianity.

"America was designed by genuises so that it could be operated by idiots."
#51  
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(08-Dec-2002 at 07:24)


Quote:
(Originally posted by Lord Drizzt)

christianity doesn't demand that nlh1 believes in the holy trinity
for nlh1 to be a christian he/she must believe in the holy trinity. If he does not become a christian, then according to christianity hes going to hell. So maybe no demanding him to but threatening him if he doesnt
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(08-Dec-2002 at 07:31)
Quote:
(Originally posted by Enderwig)



for nlh1 to be a christian he/she must believe in the holy trinity. If he does not become a christian, then according to christianity hes going to hell. So maybe no demanding him to but threatening him if he doesnt
this is what i am talking about and last time i visited this place this was all over the place...so i am going to assume that in order to be christian you must believe in this holy trinity which i will not and am willing to go to hell if it is true
#53  
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(Posted as Lord Drizzt)
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(08-Dec-2002 at 07:33)


the definition of christianity is believing in jesus/god/spirit. what r u saying, that nlh1 doesn't have to believe in god or the bible and still be a christian?

s o u l f i r e
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(08-Dec-2002 at 07:49)


Quote:
the definition of christianity is believing in jesus/god/spirit. what r u saying, that nlh1 doesn't have to believe in god or the bible and still be a christian?
no not at all. What im saying is that unless nlh1 does beleive in holy trinity he can not be a christian, if he isnt a christian then christians think hes going to hell. THus christians think he should believe in the holy trinity or go to hell (threat). that is a tad unreasonable considering a lot of people dont believe in the holy trinity. Also as he doesnt believe in the holy trinity it is unreasonable for him to become a christian, thus he feels it unreasonable for him to become a christian. Clear?
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(08-Dec-2002 at 07:56)
Quote:
(Originally posted by Enderwig)



no not at all. What im saying is that unless nlh1 does beleive in holy trinity he can not be a christian, if he isnt a christian then christians think hes going to hell. THus christians think he should believe in the holy trinity or go to hell (threat). that is a tad unreasonable considering a lot of people dont believe in the holy trinity. Also as he doesnt believe in the holy trinity it is unreasonable for him to become a christian, thus he feels it unreasonable for him to become a christian. Clear?
this is exactly what i'm saying, if christians believed jesus was the messiah and not G-d then what difference would there be between Judaism and Christianity? if we believed i nthe same G-d then there would be no difference, but that isn't the case....christians in 1/3 of the G-d that jews believe in as long as they believe in the trinity...it also seems as if as i read earlier here that Christians believe in a G-d who is more merciful except towards jews (no this is not supposed to mean i think everyone is prejudice, i am just getting rid of what's on my mind right now)
#56  
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(08-Dec-2002 at 08:21)
Quote:
(Originally posted by Lord Drizzt)

the definition of christianity is believing in jesus/god/spirit. what r u saying, that nlh1 doesn't have to believe in god or the bible and still be a christian?
nlh1 does not have to believe in G-d?

what the hell is this?

I believe there is an all so powerful G-d and I believe in the bible...just not the one you are accustomed too

please don't ever say that I don't have to believe in G-d for any reason again

maybe i am taking it the wrong way, but I really dislike how you said this knowing that i do believe in G-d

let me turn this around and see if you like this

the definition of Judaism is believing in God. what r u saying, that lord drizzt doesn't have to believe in god or the bible and still be a Jew?

it doesn't seem fair....does it?...knowing that you do have your own beliefs about G-d and the bible

on another note....i probably won't be coming on for about another week, so i'll read your replies then unless i have more time...ttyl

Last edited by nlh1, 08-Dec-2002 at 08:24.
#57  
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(08-Dec-2002 at 08:25)


Out of Curiosity

nlh1, just curious, but why do you spell god half of the time 'g-d' and the other half of the time 'god'?
Is there some hidden significance?

"America was designed by genuises so that it could be operated by idiots."
#58  
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(08-Dec-2002 at 08:32)


your not supposed to speak the name of god or something like that anyway
#59  
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(08-Dec-2002 at 11:36)
Quote:
(Originally posted by Lord Drizzt)

tikipost

did u read genisis? the first mas was adam and the first woman was eve. care to explain how evolutionwise, there was a first man and first woman?
hmmm, its called THE ORIGIN OF SPECIES! The entire book is an answer to your rediculous question!!!! You should read it or at least know something about it before arguing against evolution.

and, david, nlh1 means to say God as G-d because in judaism, you have to formally bury anything that has the "lord's" name written on it, you cannot discard it. What's funny tho, is that you actually wouldn't have to do that with the word 'God', you only have to do it with a different name of God, which is unpronouncable. And Enderwig, you are allowed to speak God's "real name", but you just cant.

i'm jewish, which is why i know these things, but i try as hard as i can to not practice (which is hard when your family imposes it on you)

on to christianity: I have nothing against it as a religion. The thing that irks me most about it, or any other religion, is when people use pasages from the bible as arguments, and when people take EVERYTHING in the bible as true. What I don't understand is how anyone could possibly believe what was obviously written as propaganda to help immoral people become moral. I am completely atheist, and I am more ethical than 90% of the religious people i've met. another thing that irks me is that people think every rule that isn't written in the bible doesn't have to be obeyed because God didn't say so, and they jump at the chance to do it just because God never said not to.

I am completely fine with religious people as long as they don't try to impose their beleifs on others, and as long as they act moral, whether or not the bible says. It's just confusing to me that they believe in it.
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