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Old OmgaHQ
Imported Post
(06-Nov-2000 at 15:47)
My opinion and a reply to 'A Friend'


First of all let me state, that I downloaded the target-finder some age ago, but actually never used it. Either I hate cheating in any way, as well as exploiting bugs, milking, farming and whatever.


'A Friend' told us, that it is part of the challenge, to spot targets and to make up what one has (if heīs a juicy target or not) by just looking at his race, size and networth. I agree with that, only the target-finder doesnīt mean any change to that. Instead, it will allow you to actually FIND the provinces, you consider a good target with your individual settings/estimations. If you are lousy at finding targets, you will neither find them with or without this tool. If you are good, you might not find a good target though, just because you have insufficient time or bad luck.

I always have a sure idea of what Iīm searching for, only the server-speed doesnīt allow me to find it.

Using the target-finder would currently break with the rules of utopia, that much is true. The usage of the target-finder should be officially allowed and it should be accessable for everybody.

The log-out bonus compensates the disadvantage of being unable not to log in frequently, but it doesnīt help you to find targets, if you canīt sit and wait for minutes to load through kingdom overviews. This tool would make people even. Either farms will probably taken out much quicker.
#41  
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Posts: 28/51
(06-Nov-2000 at 18:37)
Question...


Brother Green, I'm confused here.

You have started this discussion by placing before us two facts:
(1) Activating the on-line target finder is technically possible.

There is no reason for us not to accept your word on it.

(2) Doing so will be legally unethical.

Now I must ask, why is it illegal, and why do you state that using a target finder is unethical, while this is the main question in debate here?
#42  
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Old Mr Lovebucket
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(06-Nov-2000 at 18:44)
NO!!!


The target-finder is a thing for cheaters and is a bad thing for the game. I say - VOTE NO and we will have a fun game!
#43  
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Posts: 7/7
(06-Nov-2000 at 20:07)
We have enough cheaters already!


Don't make it easier for cheaters. We already have enogh problems with them!
#44  
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Old Ublis
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(07-Nov-2000 at 01:05)
...


Don't start with the 'possible to find farms' routine. Farms are detected pretty soon by their own kingdom, or by kingdoms they are at war with, and they are dealt with anyway. You must work to find your targets, just as you must work to keep your economy running, no matter if you are a thief or an attacker.
Somebody remarked attackers shouldn't worry about economy, economy being for explorer. That's nonsense.
If you are not able to find targets because you have no thieves or wizards, that's what you are in a kingdom for. With 20-25 people, it should be quite easy to find at least 10 good targets each day, with full info.
Oh, you are in an all-attacker kingdom? Well, it was your own choice to go all-orc, you knew what the consequences would be.
There isn't enough cooperation? Defect.
You don't have the time to find targets? Tough luck! Maybe I don't have the time, or the skills to manage a province. That doesn't mean I'm allowed to use scripts.
#45  
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Posts: 12/34
(07-Nov-2000 at 01:15)
Not agaisnt utopia rules


It is not against the rules to use a program to facilitate you wheen you are the one logging in. The part of the rules is to prevent people from writing a program and then letting thier program run thier account for a while and then they only check in when they feel like it.

All this prgram would do is give you a list of the provinces within a certain range be it nw, land or fame. YOU still have to sort through the info to find a target. its not like the program gives you one province and that is your "perfect" target. It is actually going to give you over 100 provinces to look at.

Brother Green said it is ethically illegal (bad choice of words by the way ethically wrong would have been better) as it cuts your search time down a lot. But with the way this round is set up you shouldn't be making to many out of war hits(and if you need a program to figure out who to hit during a war just quit now and let us have your land) so this program would be better used as a kingdom finder to let you find kingdoms in your war range.
#46  
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Old EVIL RedFox
Imported Post
(07-Nov-2000 at 03:19)
bah


No person with selfrespect would go for a target finder

If you want to attack find your own targets

target finder?
bah
attacking wannabes

#47  
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Old muncher
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(07-Nov-2000 at 04:17)
Okay, I'll say it again


I don't understand whats wrong?? Why is this so horrible a program? Anyone who tells me going through screen after screen is fun is full of it.

The target finder kinda makes it easier on newbies. It reduces gang banging because people are so desperate for targets and resorting to sharing them. Less GB's on poor players.

So whats the problem?? Its a different way of doing something. I don't really get teh difference between searching for an hour or searching for 15 minutes. If anything it will speed up these slow god aweful servers cuz there won't be so many people on for hours clicking around searching and searching.
#48  
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Old xcalibur
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(07-Nov-2000 at 04:23)
Come on, come on


I want a target finder, and i want 1 now!!! Im sick of spending hours looking thru kingdom lists!
#49  
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Old EVIL RedFox
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(07-Nov-2000 at 04:31)
........


You guys are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT

It saves time and will help the server load!

Hey while we're at it; why don't we make scripts to run our provinces as a second kewl 'tool'?

This way we don't have to log in AT all and still grow big and have an automatic attacker attack for us
grow us big
be top 10
YAY!
and if we all run scripts it will take minimum time for the script to log on, do their stuff and log out again!

This way we don't even NEED to log in and can do our other stuff!

</sarcasm>

pls get a brain
if you guys are 2 lazy to hunt for targets yourself and still wanna attack; hit your own kingdom
can't be easier than that
#50  
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Posts: 1/33
(07-Nov-2000 at 04:55)
Heh heh


Being a monarch, I'd rather see a kingdom target finder rather then just a province target finder. But that's just me.

Stupid is as stupid does
#51  
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Old Sir GoldenEyed GrayWolf
Imported Post
(07-Nov-2000 at 05:21)
Of course we want it!


Of course we want a target finder (loved the last one), that way we will easily get rid of all those chicken landfarms. Do I have to say more?
#52  
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Old Kronik of DS
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(07-Nov-2000 at 05:51)
vote no...


Yea I suppose it WOULD cut down on search time. However being an inexperienced player I don't want my province to show up then have thousands of people attacking all at once simple because they used this thing. Also it would take the fun out of it. How are ya gonna learn to use strategy if its all handed to you?? People learn from their mistakes and thats the best. Its not life or death and its ok to make mistakes in this. Vote NO
this will take the fun (and strategy) out of the game!
KroniK
#53  
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Posts: 2/3
(07-Nov-2000 at 06:33)
To the people that responded to my post


You flamers are so lame. You always think I'm speaking about my self when making such statements? I was just:

1. Saying that Utopia is taking much more time than it used to do (the social aspect get's lost with this.
2. Understanding those who doesnt wan't to spend 4 hours with utopia. Which I do sadly enough.
3. What makes you think I'm a bad target searcher? I'm a damn good one.... and about stealth, in my kingdom we have like 5 thieves and 10 explorers right now, so that aint a problem at all!

The thing is. I don't have a problem with people using the target finder. Why? Becuase I know they won't hit me becuase I have good defence (last round I got grabbed once). It won't hurt me damn bit! If I don't wanna use the target finder, I just don't do it!
I don't have a problem with peole being better players than me, I just think, good for them. You see? I think people these days are forgetting something very important, the social aspect of the game. Now it's just a bloody strategy game.... Mehul should never had listen to those newbies.

Okay I won't drive this subject any further... my phone bill is shooting through the roof.
And I won't post here anymore... Too many lame flamers just looking for someone to flame without giving constructive critism.
#54  
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Old Crazy First Killer
Imported Post
(07-Nov-2000 at 06:53)
Why should I care?


I think the target finder is really a cheat as it doesn't simulate something real.
The CB formatters and such are a simulation of a council that deeply studied their element IE: war.
However the target finder is a "fake" way of making all it's users grow powerful and fast (or just the smart ones).
When I look at provinces in a kingdom, more then acres and networth come to my mind, their is a roleplaying part... The names, the structure... etc.
I am against the target finder BUT make do understand, if it is back, I WILL use it as there is no way I'll keep a step behind.
May the unfaithfuls and unrighteous be crushed.
-Crazy First Killer
#55  
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Old magikman
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(07-Nov-2000 at 10:17)
Target Finder Sucks


Dont use it, it sucks. No need for it.
#56  
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Posts: 48/61
(07-Nov-2000 at 10:25)
Don't worry about double voting!


I have my own ezboard and you can only vote once! Then it says you already voted!
#57  
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Posts: 17/22
(07-Nov-2000 at 10:26)
...sigh...


You say that using the target finder is cheating... well what do you say about Angel itself? It's a calculator. It's so easy to use. It makes the difference between MANY failed and successful attacks. How is it fair that we have an advantage over those who don't use it? They have to calculate manually and that means that they won't make as many successful attacks because the program is accurate while humans are fallible. Plus, look at stuff like the thief formatter on the site! It tells you exactly how many thieves to send and what you'll get from it.

How is Angel any less "cheating" (as defined by you all, even though it's technically not cheating) than the Target Finder?

And I agree with whoever said that it makes life easier for those who have slow connections and have to click 30 times to get to one page. And let me add to that - it doesn't make life easier, it makes it POSSIBLE. If you don't have enough time to look for targets, then the ideal strat is explorer because you don't have to look for targets and it's just easier maintenance)... but exploring is no fun! There's no action! People should be free to pick their strategy regardless of their misfortune as far as connections go.

I of course voted yes. If you think it's "cheating", then who said you had to use it? I myself have better things to do than typing in random kingdom numbers for an hour or more before finding someone worth hitting.
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Old Chevis Royale
Imported Post
(07-Nov-2000 at 10:55)
Hell yeah!


Why not, yeah it can be considered bad, and anyone who makes the list will curse it to death, but others use clans/aliances to find targets, so as far as I'm concerned anyone fat enough to make the list deserves to pay the ultimate price.
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Old cara
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(07-Nov-2000 at 12:54)
give us the option


If you include a target finder, could you make it separate from Utopia Angel? I choose not to cheat, and would stop using Utopia Angel if that meant I would have a target finder installed. If you decide to do this for those that want it, could you make it a spearate download?
#60  
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