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Posts: 695/2678
(25-Nov-2004 at 23:37)


Christ's sacrifice

I hear plenty about Christ's sacrifice having been made to remove the Stain of sins from the souls of man. THat no work of man, and nothing anyone does for himself is suficient to gain entry into heaven.

This perplexes me because then the same people say that one has to ACCPET Christ and be of a particular Christian persuaussion to even think of going to heaven.

The Acceptance of Christ in one's heart would count as an act of man. The Sacrifice would be all it required for all souls to be saved.

Help me if my logic here is failed.

"I KEEK A TOUCHDOWN!" - Garo Yepremian
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Posts: 682/898
(26-Nov-2004 at 04:03)


as i understand some Christian teachings, there is nothing man can do alone that would get him to heaven. God's grace has to be present and Christ's "offer" of eternal life accepted.
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(Posted as Lord Drizzt)
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(26-Nov-2004 at 06:46)


It's like having a major test that you failed ignored.

s o u l f i r e
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Posts: 74/193
(26-Nov-2004 at 14:56)


i don't think accepting is really an 'act'... the point is, it is not that you are trying to work you're way into heaven... it is admitting you cannot do it, and than you need God's forgiveness.
"the wages of sin is death" - if we sin, the punishment must be death, so God sent his son to die the death we (Christians) should have died.

"but the gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord" - when we have faith in Jesus, we are caught up with the work HE did on the cross, taking the punishment for sin, and bringing us back into relationship with God (which was cut off by sin) this life


its hard to explain how God's grace works with 'free will' or choosing to accept...simply because we have no model or comparison, of God's will and human will interacting...

"I am the way, the truth and the life"
"I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full"

"Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near"

"preach the gospel at all times - using words only when necessary"
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Posts: 89/262
(30-Nov-2004 at 15:23)
Quote:
there is nothing man can do alone that would get him to heaven. God's grace has to be present and Christ's "offer" of eternal life accepted
Well said. God has shown He wants our cooperation in our salvation; cooperation means working with God, not doing our doings by ourselves.
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(30-Nov-2004 at 19:38)


Thru his wounds we are saved, thru his blood our sins are washed away. When we accept Christ and his sacrfice, we shall be purfied with his blood. God then sees no man with sin, but man with faith who has been saved.

No man can be saved by himself without help of God, but God is willing to help us all. God will not help us if we do not let him to help us. Accepting Christ is that, what tells God that man is redeming sins and is asking forgiveness. What God is willing to give, when you ask it...

No man can save himself, neither can man save others. Only God can do that. God can save us if we allow him to save us. And only man can allow God to save him. Nobody cannot accept God for someone else... Do you understant what I am trying to say?

Generalization is rhetorics of simpletons.
"Sages learn from history... idiots learn from experience" -Fairy Tail manga
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(Posted as u047640y)
Posts: 25/187
(01-Dec-2004 at 01:44)


God has given man the freedom whether to accapt Him or reject Him.
Well, salvation through faith and not by works =)
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Posts: 687/1288
(01-Dec-2004 at 02:27)


Not by faith alone, nor by works alone. By faith through works. "Faith without works is dead."

(\ /)
( . .)
c('')('')
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Posts: 90/193
(02-Dec-2004 at 01:02)


i still believe it is faith alone that SAVES (well grace through faith alone)... but James i trying to say there that a REAL faith will be evident in the good works that come from it

"I am the way, the truth and the life"
"I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full"

"Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near"

"preach the gospel at all times - using words only when necessary"
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(02-Dec-2004 at 20:35)


i believe the point was that accepting him could be considered a work. i.e. it's a thing a person does. which would make it a contradiction.

And the time will come when you see we're all one
And life flows on within you and without you
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(02-Dec-2004 at 20:51)


Quote:
(Originally posted by Trial by Fire)

i believe the point was that accepting him could be considered a work. i.e. it's a thing a person does. which would make it a contradiction.
Yes that is exactly my point.

"I KEEK A TOUCHDOWN!" - Garo Yepremian
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Posts: 100/182
(02-Dec-2004 at 21:53)


the promise of salvation through the acceptance of christ is the psychological tool the church implied after they made people have a feeling of guilt by declaring acts as "sin" like the cruzification itself or the early sins in the books - bah manipulative

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(03-Dec-2004 at 02:20)
I suppose you could see faith as an action, but in the passages where faith and works are discussed, faith is clearly not meant to be classified as a work.

The idea is more that we cannot earn salvation by being good, because we will all fail at that. We must accept the gift Christ offers us. Does it make more sense in that light?
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Posts: 90/125
(03-Dec-2004 at 07:39)
For anyone who reads *only* the King James version of the bible, I suggest you pick up a good old Catholic bible. Why? So that you can read it in its origional entirety. You do know that your predecessors cut out 4(?) books of the bible because those books preached that faith alone couldn't save, but works were needed too. Unfortunatly for them, the book of James was too important overall to be editted out and that one verse saying that faith alone won't save is all that is left in those bibles.

Because I'm an agnostic don't think I'm telling you to do this because I'm Catholic.

"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into." - Jonathon Swift
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