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View Poll Results: Whats your opinion on the matter?
I think it is a morally correct thing to do. 20 51.28%
I don't think it is a morally correct thing to do. 15 38.46%
I have done it in the past. 10 25.64%
I have never done it in the past. 24 61.54%
Who voted? Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 39
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Posts: 3052/3642
(01-Dec-2008 at 06:21)


You're looking at school as a place for competitive education rather than as a place for real life preparation. It's not about who does better, it's about who comprehends enough of the course material. You earned the extra time to spend on other things, because you already put in the work.

If all else fails, call someone a troll.
that can be fixed... / ∆

Last edited by Greeney, 01-Dec-2008 at 06:22.
#21  
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(01-Dec-2008 at 10:31)


Re: Resubmiting College Papers

Just once or twice with a bit work done on them. It's very nice to see your past efforts giving you a bonus






Originally Posted by Spectre19: View Post
But you don't deserve the advantage. It means you get a higher grade than you would otherwise have received because you have had more time to fuck around with it, and therefore a higher grade as compared to the other students in the class - all in the arbitrary case that you happen to have written a suitable paper beforehand.

.

How do you not deserve it? It's still your work,you have done the job. Since when it using your time to your advantage in any way or shape unfair. In my univeristy my major had a lot to do with history and philosophy, subjects which me and a few other people in my class have alraedy been soemwhat familiar with and we didn't need to bother reading quite a few texts because we have already been through them. Other haven't. So how is the fact that i and others put more effort then them in the past in any way unfair?

Quote:
Either way, my point was, whether it is what the teacher marks you for or not is not the issue - the issue is fairness. I think it is unethical because it is not fair to other students who now have a larger workload than you despite having the same class
Why is it unfair? Have they in some way been forbidden to go through the same books i did in the past?

The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common; they don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit the views

Last edited by DHoffryn, 01-Dec-2008 at 10:32.
#22  
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(02-Dec-2008 at 17:11)


Nothing wrong with that unless your teacher says otherwise. Also be careful not to submit a version which had previously been editted by the prof. of your previous class or you'd be violating the "own work product" rule.
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(02-Dec-2008 at 18:22)


I personally don't think it's such a great idea, but I also think Spectre's "fairness" argument is a bit off. It has nothing to do with "fairness". We shouldn't artificially restrict someone just because some factor in their school life means they have a certain advantage over someone else.

Right now some of the subjects I'm studying are almost directly related to some I studied last year. The literature is similar, with big overlap, and the general 'questions' are often the same. Though, it has to be said that I have yet to run into a case where it's anywhere near feasible to resubmit a previous paper. The assignments are usually much too specific for that.
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(Posted as Eldarad)
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(02-Dec-2008 at 21:26)


At my university there was a rule specifically saying that a piece of coursework can only be used to score marks in one module, so the "moral issue" never came up.

I did my accountancy degree as Enron happened so a lot of my degree suddenly involved a lot of stuff on Enron and principles vs rules based standards. But even then, the angle taken on the Enron collapse was sufficiently different in the different modules that it wouldn't really have been useful to use the same coursework for two of them.

I did have one module - called "Issues in Financial Reporting" that was 100% assessed on a single piece of coursework - and the tutor made it clear that anyone who had done the Enron assignment as part of Advanced Financial Reporting was not allowed to write about Enron again.

So, meh, I didn't really have the choice, and it wouldn't have helped me anyway if I had had the choice.

You only have power over people as long as you don't take everything from them.
But when you've robbed a man of everything, he's no longer in your power - he is free again.
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(04-Dec-2008 at 01:00)


My school classifies this as plagiarism, and you'd get treated just as if you used a paper written by someone else. Every paper must be specifically written for the class it was assigned for.

There's also the fact that it is unfair as you are doing no work while others are, which I believe Spectre already touched upon.

"Why should I have to work for everything?! It's like saying I don't deserve it!" - Calvin.
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(05-Dec-2008 at 02:17)


I see nothing wrong with it. It's stuff you wrote, your own original material, and if it applies to two different courses, why not submit it twice?

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin
#27  
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(05-Dec-2008 at 05:50)


Re: Resubmiting College Papers

Originally Posted by KnightoftheNite: View Post
I see nothing wrong with it. It's stuff you wrote, your own original material, and if it applies to two different courses, why not submit it twice?
Because I'd be quite surprised if it's not prohibited, implicitly or explicitly, by the school's academic dishonesty manual.

Not to mention that it's academically dishonest.

"Why should I have to work for everything?! It's like saying I don't deserve it!" - Calvin.
#28  
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(11-Dec-2008 at 04:12)


Re: Resubmiting College Papers

Originally Posted by Stewie: View Post
Because I'd be quite surprised if it's not prohibited, implicitly or explicitly, by the school's academic dishonesty manual.
Probably, but it being prohibited doesn't make it wrong.

Originally Posted by Stewie: View Post
Not to mention that it's academically dishonest.
How? It's still my original work. I see nothing academically dishonest about passing off my work for two different assignments if it fits both assignments.

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin
#29  
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(12-Dec-2008 at 18:10)


I'm a graduate student and teaching assistant at the UofA. My university has a 'plagiarism' seminar every year for the new freshmen engineering students. They make a point of saying it is considered plagiarism if you resubmit work done for a previous course without that professor's express permission to a current one. The reason is because by resubmitting the work, you haven't actually done anything new for the current assignment, you're just re-applying old work.

Now, can you use similar ideas? Of course. But if you don't look up the information and use it in a new way for the new assignment (i.e. just copy/paste previous papers to your new document), then it is plagiarism.

One thing to clear yourself is to talk to both professors (the one you did the work for previously and your current one) to talk about what you could do to improve your previous work and adequately apply it to the class. That way, you are cleared from any charges of plagiarism (getting express permission from your old professor) and you come off as a very honest, straight-forward person to your current professor (which is always good for your grade).

Elder of Nex Imperio
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Last edited by ninjaphobos, 12-Dec-2008 at 18:11.
#30  
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(12-Dec-2008 at 18:49)


Quote:
Plagiarism is the use or close imitation of the language and thoughts of another author and the representation of them as one's own original work.
Your university needs to pick up a dictionary somewhere.

University is a professional institution with a clear target: To serve the accumulation of knowledge. To do this it needs to educate students so that they can produce work/research at an appropriate level. If you have already learned how to produce work at that level, good for you. Some students are more talented than others and get higher grades. Others have had a better highschool and have to do less work in uni because of it. Others have written papers of an appropriate level in other courses that they can use again. Is this fair? Probably not, but life, and especially academic life isn't fair.

Modern world I'm not pleased to meet you

You just bring me down
#31  
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(15-Dec-2008 at 08:11)


Re: Resubmiting College Papers

Originally Posted by KnightoftheNite: View Post
How? It's still my original work. I see nothing academically dishonest about passing off my work for two different assignments if it fits both assignments.
Because you are not doing the work that the professor is asking you to do. You yourself admitted, albeit not directly, that it is dishonest, for if it was honest you would not need to "pass it off" as two different assignments, you would just tell the professor that you've done a similar assignment before and you are turning in the same work. If it's something honest, then there's no need for deceit.

"Why should I have to work for everything?! It's like saying I don't deserve it!" - Calvin.
#32  
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(15-Dec-2008 at 23:25)


Re: Resubmiting College Papers

Originally Posted by KnightoftheNite:
Probably, but it being prohibited doesn't make it wrong.
Actually, that's the only thing I would say that does make it wrong.
You might not agree with it, but if a teacher clearly told you that you cannot copy one assignment you have already used beforehand then it would make it wrong.

Originally Posted by Stewie: View Post
Because you are not doing the work that the professor is asking you to do.
The professor would be asking you to do work you have already done.
You are not doing the work the current semester, but you have already put all the effort into it that other people are putting in.

Quote:
You yourself admitted, albeit not directly, that it is dishonest, for if it was honest you would not need to "pass it off" as two different assignments,
You're doing that thing that's become quite popular on this site where you take someones argument and try to twist it around to fit your own assumptions. Don't mistake this for me saying you do it often, but you are doing it right now.

Quote:
you would just tell the professor that you've done a similar assignment before and you are turning in the same work. If it's something honest, then there's no need for deceit.
The onus is on the professor, or the school as a whole, to tell you that you can't turn in the same/a similar assignment. If you have researched something, and you did it well enough to earn a good grade, you have learned what the course is asking of you. If you are repeating a course, where you are asked to do the same assignment, but already got an 100 on that assignment (but failed an exam that didn't have much to do with it), you should have every right to hand the exact same thing in.


Quote:
There's also the fact that it is unfair as you are doing no work while others are, which I believe Spectre already touched upon.
"It's not about who does better, it's about who comprehends enough of the course material." <-- Not plagiarism, I already put in the effort to write it.

Quote:
Not to mention that it's academically dishonest.
I disagree. I think it is academically dishonest to hand in something where you didn't put the heavy majority of effort into it (or without giving credit to any part that is not your own) or if you give someone your work to use or if you cheat on something for marks, but it cannot be academically dishonest if neither your school nor any of your teachers inform you otherwise. If you have researched an identical assignment already it is pointless to write an entirely new assignment which may get you less marks than you have already earned and will cost you time and effort which was already spent on that. It is natural for people to feel they have already accomplished what is being asked of them when they actually have.

If all else fails, call someone a troll.
that can be fixed... / ∆

Last edited by Greeney, 15-Dec-2008 at 23:27.
#33  
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(17-Dec-2008 at 17:21)


Re: Resubmiting College Papers

Originally Posted by Greeney: View Post
Actually, that's the only thing I would say that does make it wrong.
You might not agree with it, but if a teacher clearly told you that you cannot copy one assignment you have already used beforehand then it would make it wrong.
Well, if a teacher tells you it's wrong then it certainly is. But they don't need to tell you: just read the University's policy on Academic Dishonesty, I'm sure it's there, and they don't need to tell you to read it or read it to you: it's your responsibility, as a student to read the document. Of course, you could be like me and believe that something doesn't need to be written somewhere or read to you for it to be wrong.


Quote:
The professor would be asking you to do work you have already done.
You are not doing the work the current semester, but you have already put all the effort into it that other people are putting in.
Exactly. By having done something similar in the past, you gain an unfair advantage in the current assignment: you'll do no work and get a good grade (unless your current professor does not agree with your former professor).


Quote:
You're doing that thing that's become quite popular on this site where you take someones argument and try to twist it around to fit your own assumptions. Don't mistake this for me saying you do it often, but you are doing it right now.
If you are going to accuse me of being fallacious, please elaborate. I still believe that my argument was valid: the statement said "pass it off as two different assignments" and to me it follows that if you are passing it off as two different things when they are in fact the same thing, you are not being honest.

Quote:
The onus is on the professor, or the school as a whole, to tell you that you can't turn in the same/a similar assignment. If you have researched something, and you did it well enough to earn a good grade, you have learned what the course is asking of you. If you are repeating a course, where you are asked to do the same assignment, but already got an 100 on that assignment (but failed an exam that didn't have much to do with it), you should have every right to hand the exact same thing in.
I disagree. I don't think you need a law to tell you that killing is wrong for me to refrain myself for killing someone. Same goes for many laws, I really don't need them there, I know what's wrong and what's right and I act accordingly. However, if you act as you feel fit except when it's written somewhere that you shouldn't, then read the University's Academic Dishonesty document. Implicitly or explicitly, it's very likely that it's there.

Or you could try passing it off as a new assignment, and if you get caught then you can explain to the professor how he should have told you that re-submitting past work is not allowed.


Quote:
"It's not about who does better, it's about who comprehends enough of the course material."
Except that it is about who does better. The person who does better will get a better grade, is more likely to get a scholarship, other awards (these are not only financially rewarding in the short term, but also look good on a resume), if you are in high school these grades will help you get into a better university, and if you are in university these grades will help you get into a professional faculty - such as medicine and law. Unless you are already in the faculty of your choice, then doing better does matter (and because of scholarships and awards, it may matter even after you are in).
Quote:

I disagree. I think it is academically dishonest to hand in something where you didn't put the heavy majority of effort into it (or without giving credit to any part that is not your own) or if you give someone your work to use or if you cheat on something for marks, but it cannot be academically dishonest if neither your school nor any of your teachers inform you otherwise. If you have researched an identical assignment already it is pointless to write an entirely new assignment which may get you less marks than you have already earned and will cost you time and effort which was already spent on that. It is natural for people to feel they have already accomplished what is being asked of them when they actually have.
This is kind of ambigious, because we keep not saying how similar these assignments are supposed to be. If vaguely similar, then academic dishonesty aside it is in your best interest to be original, as you are probably not going to get as good a mark if the instructions are different. If, on the other extreme, they are identical, you can always talk to the professor, and s/he may give you permission to re-submit your work, or give you an alternative. Either way, it is always appropriate to cite your own work, and go a bit further and look for alternate viewpoints and address them. If you didn't get that A+ in the first assignment you might get it now, and you'll certainly impress your professor for taking it a step further.


As a disclaimer, I feel I have to say that I am not trying to gain a moral high ground in this discussion. While I have not done this in particular, I have done other "academically dishonest" things, namely work in groups when the assignment was intended to be worked on individually. My point is not "it's wrong do you must not do it" but rather "it's wrong so you should not do it, but if you do then do so understanding that it is wrong."

"Why should I have to work for everything?! It's like saying I don't deserve it!" - Calvin.
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(01-Jul-2009 at 13:59)


reopened

........Why does the thin grey strand......Ah, you will understand;.......................I should find, for a reprimand
.......Floating up from the forgotten......When I carried my mother downstairs,.....To my gaiety, a few long grey hairs
......Cigarette between my fingers,......A few times only, at the beginning..........On the breast of my coat; and one by one
.....Why does it trouble me?.............Of her soft-foot malady,.......................I watched them float up the dark chimney.
#35  
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(01-Jul-2009 at 15:10)


Where does it say you specifically cannot resubmit a paper? I've never done it as I've never had 2 classes require the same thing, but I don't see what the problem is. You are not plagiarizing, it's original work done by you, and if you get caught tell them that they never said you could not resubmit that paper.
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(Posted as DeRnhelm)
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(01-Jul-2009 at 17:27)


If you're told to write, for example, an essay on a topic you choose yourself - then it is safe to assume that the teacher wants you to practice writing the kind of essay that your assignment requires.

If you have an essay, then perhaps working on it and making it better before the submission could be a good thing, unless it is disallowed. That would be good practice.

~–eRn~
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#37  
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(02-Jul-2009 at 00:24)


Re: Resubmiting College Papers

Originally Posted by Acadian9: View Post
Where does it say you specifically cannot resubmit a paper? I've never done it as I've never had 2 classes require the same thing, but I don't see what the problem is. You are not plagiarizing, it's original work done by you, and if you get caught tell them that they never said you could not resubmit that paper.
Your school should give out some sort of literature regarding academic honesty. Last time I've read mine (which was in a section of the Academic Calendar), it said in no uncertain terms that resubmitting your own work without prior approval from both professors is considered academic dishonesty. If you are not sure, your professor would probably know, or could direct you to someone who does.

Originally Posted by DeRnhelm: View Post
If you're told to write, for example, an essay on a topic you choose yourself - then it is safe to assume that the teacher wants you to practice writing the kind of essay that your assignment requires.

If you have an essay, then perhaps working on it and making it better before the submission could be a good thing, unless it is disallowed. That would be good practice.
I think that would be OK, because you aren't really submitting the same thing twice, you are just improving a paper before you submit it.

Here's a good way to see why it is academic dishonesty to resubmit your own work:

Suppose you have a professor that teaches a class in which you have to write ten essays throughout the year. You can write them on whatever you'd like. If you get an A+ on the first essay, would you resubmit this essay for the following nine? If you did, how would you expect your professor to react?

"Why should I have to work for everything?! It's like saying I don't deserve it!" - Calvin.
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(02-Jul-2009 at 02:50)


Re: Resubmiting College Papers

Originally Posted by Stewie: View Post
Suppose you have a professor that teaches a class in which you have to write ten essays throughout the year. You can write them on whatever you'd like. If you get an A+ on the first essay, would you resubmit this essay for the following nine? If you did, how would you expect your professor to react?
That would almost certainly have dire consequences. Actually, not even almost certainly, it would definitely not be what was intended. And I suspect anyone attempting to do it and then feigning ignorance would be in for a rude awakening. I'm going to be a teacher, and I would certainly not allow it. Not that I expect anyone to actually attempt it, though.

This is a much more extreme case than that of resubmitting an essay for another class, though I think that wouldn't go down so well either.
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