Utopia Temple
Main Forum Page Register an Account for Free! Calendar Frequently Asked Questions about this Board View New Posts Advanced Search Login
  Utopia Temple Forums > Utopia Discussions > Alliances Discussions

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Post New Thread Reply
Author Thread
Posts: 48/452
(22-Feb-2002 at 23:17)
Quote:
(Originally posted by NeoTaz)

Question:

1) Do you have an ethics system, does honor or a code exist in AA?

2) Do you ever take responsibility for member's wrongdoings or just blame it on others?

3) Do you really think ##:## odds is fair and/or goes with the true spirit of the game?
I assume you mean does AA have a code of honor. Yes, to help each of our members and our allies to the best of our ability. At every avenue we attempt diplomatic means to end conflicts even before they start. However due to our years of not answering questions, our reputation has swiftly fallen. So when we act towards a KD or an Alliance with force we are looked down upon even before anyone has a full answer.

Yes we take responsibility for our members actions, when they are in the wrong. I have more then once posted a formal appology to a KD or an alliance for an accidental hit or a wrongful hit. Me as well as others spend a great deal of time reviewing Targeted KDs, contacting them and those that they have offended to get the whole story. Sometimes a diplomate misses something and later it is found that totally exhonerates the offending KD from any wrong doing. We do not claim to be right 100% of the time. Yet I think I can honestly say we are right at least 90% of the time.

No we do not think that is fair or with in the true spirit of the game, yet when diplomacy has failed, and it has been proven time and time again that the targeted KD is in the wrong then what would you have us do? Sit back and let them continue to be in the wrong and hurt our members? I really doubt any alliance does that. If so find me one, send them to me I'd personally love to hit them all day long until they wise up.

Signature suspended by Brother Green for violating the forum's rules.
#21  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Admiral S3 Add Admiral S3 to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 49/452
(22-Feb-2002 at 23:23)
Quote:
(Originally posted by Admiral S3)

No we do not think that is fair or with in the true spirit of the game, yet when diplomacy has failed, and it has been proven time and time again that the targeted KD is in the wrong then what would you have us do? Sit back and let them continue to be in the wrong and hurt our members? I really doubt any alliance does that. If so find me one, send them to me I'd personally love to hit them all day long until they wise up.
Just so there is not confusion when and if you do find an alliance that is willing to be beat on with out taking any action what so ever, and if you do send them to me it will be me not the AA hitting them, and when they finally attack me I can promise that I shall not call in the AA for support. I will face my death as an honorable one. I will consider it to have been helping a new alliance down the right road.

Signature suspended by Brother Green for violating the forum's rules.
#22  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Admiral S3 Add Admiral S3 to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 45/251
(23-Feb-2002 at 00:21)
Perhaps you should try monitoring your membership base then, and evicting the problem-causers. Saying your membership is to big to control won;t get sympathy from me, or anyone I know. Simply put, if you cannot control your membership, you have to many members. I'd rather have a quality team, that 300 people I can't keep tabs on. IOf someone makes us look vad, they're out, plain and simple. Why? ASomeone mentioned the word "ethics" earlier. And here's the allaince world from someone with ethics:

Keep membership within managable levels.

EVERYONE who belongs to the membership MUST maintain the alliance creed and code, or be evicted from said membership.

People who bear the tag, and violate the code, are evicted.

People who dishonor the alliance are evicted.

Plain and simple. Police your own. If you want to be respected, honored, and treated fairly, them make sure everyone in your alliance knows that they represent the whole alliance in their actions. Makethem understand that everything they do reflects on the alliance as a whole. Anyone who cannot carry the name with honor and integrity loses the right to bear it, plain and simple.

My kingdom is tagged, has fought 4 wars this, and I haven;t had a problem. Other UR kingdoms, also tagged, have had wars, and no problems. You don't hear comments about us, or people complaining about any warped ideals. Every member of UR is expected to act as though he represented the whole of UR in all dealings, plain and simple. We DO police our own, and always will, regardless of membership size.

Monarch of "The Forge"
Note- My comments and views are mine, and mine alone. I don't speak for anyone but myself, and occasionally my kingdom.
#23  
View Public Profile Find more posts by HammerOfTheGods Add HammerOfTheGods to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 46/251
(23-Feb-2002 at 00:40)
OK...situation number 2, Admiral. Behonest...who is in the wrong here?

A kingdom elects their monarch several ages in the past. A new age begins, and teh monarch is elected again. A NEW province, who shall remain nameless, but is tagged AA, demands an AA province be made monarch, so the kingdom can be tagged AA. The kingdom shouts him down. He threatend to call in AA allies to kill the king, if an AA member isn't made king. The kingdom refuses.

So...several hours before protection ends, the kingdom, publicly, agrees to let by-gones be by-gones, and get on with the round, all is forgiven. As soon as protection ends, this AA member immediately starts running damaging ops on kingdom-mates. To protect themselves, they start attacking him. INTRENAL PROBLEM. I seem to recall an AA policy saying they don;t get involved in internal problems.

So, shortly after, TWO kingdom declare war on the kingdom, doing massive grabs and razes on the legitimate monarch of the kingdom, trying to kill him, at the request of the above-mentioned AA member. One kingdomw is tagged AA, and the other is former AA, an allie, and the former kingdom of the previously mentioned AA province. Ahem. So, now we have an AA member starting an internal civil war, calling in AA allies to g-b and kill the legitimate king because he can't have his way, but AA doesn't get involved in internal politics.

Now, should AA defend this province, and the gang-banging, double-declaring monarch who comes to his aid? What do you think?

Well, since the affected kingdom happens to be a UR member, I immediately proceeded to declare war on the offending AA kingdom, and started to kick the crap out of it. Suddenly, after about 12 hours, I get a slew of messages from AA High Councilors, who I won't name, telling em to stop, or my kingdom will be killed by the AA. Hmm...

How does AA make policy decisions, AdmiralS3? They violate standing, writen AA policy on personal whim. The instigate wars, then claim martyrdom. Where do you draw the line?

Incidentaly, the above mentioned province was a Horseman, the highest rank attainable in the AA, short of a council appointment.

Monarch of "The Forge"
Note- My comments and views are mine, and mine alone. I don't speak for anyone but myself, and occasionally my kingdom.
#24  
View Public Profile Find more posts by HammerOfTheGods Add HammerOfTheGods to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 44/317
(23-Feb-2002 at 00:52)
Quick Q. Admiral S3, is DM (the person) still part of AA?

Vapor
Freelance mercenary/anarchist
And doesn't cheat
#25  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Vapor Add Vapor to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
(Posted as Nicca)
Posts: 36/154
(23-Feb-2002 at 01:07)


Vapor, who are you asking for? we have several people that can fit with those 2 letters.
#26  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Lady Nicca Add Lady Nicca to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
(Posted as Invictus AA)
Posts: 2/3861
(23-Feb-2002 at 01:58)


"A kingdom elects their monarch several ages in the past. A new age begins, and teh monarch is elected again. A NEW province, who shall remain nameless, but is tagged AA, demands an AA province be made monarch, so the kingdom can be tagged AA. The kingdom shouts him down. He threatend to call in AA allies to kill the king, if an AA member isn't made king. The kingdom refuses."



Well Thats a great story Hammer but a AA tagged kingdom doesnt need an AA monarch.... but we dont want a little truth to effect your ramblings now do we.

As far some of you that think AA are the only ones without honor out there keep dreaming. I ended a war I was in a week ago but this province in the kingdom has attacked everyday since. Did I demand his death? No. Did I post him as a target? No. I sent his regent a message and here is the reply....


On February 13th, YR4, we received this note...
To The Honorable King Invictus
I've looked up who is attacking (Censored) and it is (Censored), a newbie. I send him a message not to attack on you're people anymore. If he keeps attacking I deal with him also, also you are free to retaliate on him then. I will put this in the login message also....
Signed, The Great King V of (Censored) (XX:YY)



Like I said I dont want any truth to effect your posting so keep on posting.

Some people really need to get a life.
#27  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Invictus2001 Add Invictus2001 to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 50/452
(23-Feb-2002 at 04:52)
Quote:
(Originally posted by Vapor)

Quick Q. Admiral S3, is DM (the person) still part of AA?
By DM I assume you mean Dark Mistress. DM? DeadlyMyst is still part of the AA as well as DarkMistress. Or at least so the memberlist tells me. If you ment another DM, please contact me.

Signature suspended by Brother Green for violating the forum's rules.
#28  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Admiral S3 Add Admiral S3 to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 51/452
(23-Feb-2002 at 05:13)
Hammerofthegods:

Post#1:
We do try to monitor our members, however it is very difficult. As you can well imagine, however as snijka stated either in this thread or another if information is proven to us, being the AA HC we will do everything in our power to remove the bad apples of the alliance. However mear accusation is not enough for us to go on. Evidence is a requirment of any investigation. Failure to provide any actual evidence will result in me not taking your claim seriously.

It is entirely impossible to watch everyone at all times. You are simpley asking for the impossible. I can easily relate this to real life. I am a Correctional Officer for the State of New York. Yes you got it an over glorified prison guard. There is generally one officer for every 70 prisoners in my prison. Likewise for every 12 officers there is a Sergeant, For every 4 Sergeants there is a LT. An officer can not watch all 70 prisoners at one time, like wise the sergeant cn not watch all 12 of his officers all at once just like the LT can not watch all of his sergeants all at once. So you are asking the impossible even in a real life situation. It would not matter if we reduced the number of members, the task to watch everyone every day all the time would be an impossible feat.

Post #2:
It sounds as if that is not a hypothetical situation. In order for a KD to be tagged AA its is not nessarily a requirment that the monarch be in AA. Just that there be at least one member (Could be wrong about minimum members, there was a discussion recently about policy of tagging) and the KD must be willing to act on the AA's behalf during times of war.

Additonally the only way such an attack could happen is if somehow this member managed to trick our diplomacy department or our war department with misleading information. There is of course the possibility that this member managed to gather some support from an AA KD or 2 who did not know the full exstent of the situation. The later being a very highly unlikely possibility, but always a small chance for that. I believe I have said that on occasion we make an error which we attempt to quickly rectify when we have found out.

Signature suspended by Brother Green for violating the forum's rules.
#29  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Admiral S3 Add Admiral S3 to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 52/452
(23-Feb-2002 at 05:14)
Hammerof the gods:

It seems Invictus answered your second post for me.

Signature suspended by Brother Green for violating the forum's rules.
#30  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Admiral S3 Add Admiral S3 to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
(Posted as Tooptie)
Posts: 9/65
(23-Feb-2002 at 08:27)
grr.. Snikja

Hmmm AA actions and policy are contradiction... Here the reason i say that...

One of my friend has been declared by an AA kd, the AA kingdom is bigger than my friend kingdom... The war goes and my friend who is monarch has been attacked sevelral times by other AA tagged kd and receiving threats that she must surrender or she will get killed...because of the attacks she suffered she was brought down to a level where the declaring kd was able to attack and bring war meter up on their side... and you say you do not interfere with fair 1 VS 1 kd?
#31  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Mastahmind Add Mastahmind to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
(Posted as Incubus NH)
Posts: 51/147
(23-Feb-2002 at 08:43)
sigh.. that kind of stuff is only happening because of the stupid new war system... it's so hard to get a kingdom surrender nowadays (it took a friend of mine one whole week to do that), and when you war those people who simply won't give up a war can just drag on and on and on...

I'm guess the AA response will be that AA did not order the gb, but the AA kd involved called in their own AA buddies without the consent of the AA and thus has nothing to do with AA =)
#32  
View Public Profile Find more posts by WoApollo Add WoApollo to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 53/452
(23-Feb-2002 at 10:27)
Re: Snikja

Quote:
(Originally posted by Tooptie)

Hmmm AA actions and policy are contradiction... Here the reason i say that...

One of my friend has been declared by an AA kd, the AA kingdom is bigger than my friend kingdom... The war goes and my friend who is monarch has been attacked sevelral times by other AA tagged kd and receiving threats that she must surrender or she will get killed...because of the attacks she suffered she was brought down to a level where the declaring kd was able to attack and bring war meter up on their side... and you say you do not interfere with fair 1 VS 1 kd?
Seeing as how you asked for snikja's advice I shall decline to comment on the situation however I shall say this. Show me proof and I shall look into the matter.


Proof would include messages and ops of any kind from AA tagged KDs. Obviously I will need more then one operation or operations from more then one individual provence. You can either site message me here, or you may contact me at the AA website. The link will be posted below this responce. As I fully expect there to be KD locations involved do not post them here as this would be a violation of Utopia temple policy.

http://www.immortalone.com/main.htm

Incubus:

As much as I'd like to concure with your statement like I had said before it is highly unlikely. A message or 2 is highly possible and maybe just maybe the occasional outside hit. However most AA members tend to not hit KDs unless they are a target of the AA, or they are in a normal one v one war. We do tend to watch our members more closely then that so any prolonged amount of unathorized attacks would be recognized exspecially if it was from more then one AA KD on the same KD.

Signature suspended by Brother Green for violating the forum's rules.
#33  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Admiral S3 Add Admiral S3 to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 48/251
(23-Feb-2002 at 14:53)
Ah...but if tagged AA kingdoms are acting together, and breaking AA poicy in the process, it makes the AA look bad, and SHOULD be an AA problem. When is AA going to learn that they have to enforce their policies, before the world of public opinion should change? It's easy to say "we didn;t order it, so it's not our problem". However, they bear the name because YOU allow it. Plain and simple. If you allow them to bear your tag, then you should be accontable for their actions when they use the resources and contacts you provide them. Your organization makes these things possible for them, and that makes you accountable for their actions.

Now, since you are all so fond of using "real world" analogies, here's one for you AAers out there. If you provide the opportuniy for a crime to happen, such as promoting the environment that fostered the crime, and ddin't stop that crime from happening, you are guilty of criminal negligence. So, every abuse commited by the AA memebrship, with or without the blessing of the AA council, can be directly attributed to the AA leadership as a whole. They know about the flaws in the system, and continue to turn a blind eye. Unitil and unless they make changes to prevent this form of abuse, they are responsible. Just because they don't know about specific acts, and don't approve of them, doesn't mean they aren't responsible by associatiion.


Invictus...it was NOT a hypothetical situation. I can giveyou names if you want, too. The offending AA province, the AA monarch who came to his rescue, the former AA monarch and allie who gb-ed the rightfully elected king, the High Council member who sided with me, the two councilors who decided to threaten to kill my kingdom if I didn' walk away. I probably still have a history of all the conversations, as well, or at least some of them. It happened. I just hesitate to post names in the open forums here.


Furthermore, I know of at least one incident this age where an AA kingdom was beaten fairly on the BF, and refused to surender to the winning kingdom. So, instead of surrendering, they called in AA allies to gang-bang the attacking kingdom to force them to withdraw. Now that's fair....NOT.

Monarch of "The Forge"
Note- My comments and views are mine, and mine alone. I don't speak for anyone but myself, and occasionally my kingdom.
#34  
View Public Profile Find more posts by HammerOfTheGods Add HammerOfTheGods to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 818/1414
(23-Feb-2002 at 20:47)


"It is your fault if you get declared a target, we do not seek out anyone as a target, but many seek out AA kingdoms as targets, and that is where the problem comes in." (by Snikja)

I remember this not being the case in the latest publically noted dishonor by AA on MeMo.

Admiral, glad to hear you would go ##:## rather than call in others...wish your other members would do the same. Also if you truely believe ##:## odds are not fair and do not go with the true nature of the game then why do it? Secondly, Diplomacy should almost never fail...A good diplomat can always combat the situation. The main obsticle to diplomacy in this game is pride. You should always give diplomacy as many chances as needed before Action. And when action takes place then it should be of a fair nature (Pit one province of equal size against the opposition...if you need to up the ante to ##:## then do so...##:## is just ridiculous (and yes the odds where more than this on certain guys in MeMo))

Could it perhaps be that ... "WoD is lame?" <TopwolfUtopia> ... sorry huh?
"WoD is lame?" <TopwolfUtopia>
one more time
"WoD is lame" <TopwolfUtopia>
Thaaaat's right...
#35  
View Public Profile Find more posts by NeoTaz Add NeoTaz to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 10/38
(23-Feb-2002 at 20:51)
I have a question (go figure!):

Why is it that AA demands destruction of provinces calling AA members bad names, while AA itself refuses to even apologize for doing the same to others?



Avantari, Major General MeMo
63210018
#36  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Avantari Add Avantari to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 11/38
(23-Feb-2002 at 21:02)
Another thing I would like to know is:

What were the proofs that AA based their accusations on MeMo supporting Daimyo on?
#37  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Avantari Add Avantari to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 56/452
(23-Feb-2002 at 21:59)
Quote:
(Originally posted by HammerOfTheGods)

Ah...but if tagged AA kingdoms are acting together, and breaking AA poicy in the process, it makes the AA look bad, and SHOULD be an AA problem. When is AA going to learn that they have to enforce their policies, before the world of public opinion should change? It's easy to say "we didn;t order it, so it's not our problem". However, they bear the name because YOU allow it. Plain and simple. If you allow them to bear your tag, then you should be accontable for their actions when they use the resources and contacts you provide them. Your organization makes these things possible for them, and that makes you accountable for their actions.

Now, since you are all so fond of using "real world" analogies, here's one for you AAers out there. If you provide the opportuniy for a crime to happen, such as promoting the environment that fostered the crime, and ddin't stop that crime from happening, you are guilty of criminal negligence. So, every abuse commited by the AA memebrship, with or without the blessing of the AA council, can be directly attributed to the AA leadership as a whole. They know about the flaws in the system, and continue to turn a blind eye. Unitil and unless they make changes to prevent this form of abuse, they are responsible. Just because they don't know about specific acts, and don't approve of them, doesn't mean they aren't responsible by associatiion.


Invictus...it was NOT a hypothetical situation. I can giveyou names if you want, too. The offending AA province, the AA monarch who came to his rescue, the former AA monarch and allie who gb-ed the rightfully elected king, the High Council member who sided with me, the two councilors who decided to threaten to kill my kingdom if I didn' walk away. I probably still have a history of all the conversations, as well, or at least some of them. It happened. I just hesitate to post names in the open forums here.


Furthermore, I know of at least one incident this age where an AA kingdom was beaten fairly on the BF, and refused to surender to the winning kingdom. So, instead of surrendering, they called in AA allies to gang-bang the attacking kingdom to force them to withdraw. Now that's fair....NOT.
Hammerofthegods:

You are begining to boar me to tears here. I have said we do watch our members, several times now. However WE CAN NOT BE ON ALL DAY LONG. What part of that statment do you not understand? Real life does not work that way, so how can you expect that this game, which is just that its only a game, is ever in gods name going to work like that? You can not honestly expect every member of ANY alliance to be watched 24 hours a day 7 days a week. It does not happen in real life and it sure is'nt going to happen in a game.

When you have something other then "watch your members" to say please post again, in the mean time please go away. You have said the same statement at least 4 times now and I have rebutted it every way that makes sense. I do not think there is a person in utopia that does not agree with me on this one subject.

Signature suspended by Brother Green for violating the forum's rules.
#38  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Admiral S3 Add Admiral S3 to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 824/1414
(23-Feb-2002 at 22:05)


Very true, you can't be watching out all the time. However once something has been brought to your attention, proceeding the actual event then you can be held accountable and should deal with the wrongdoing person properly by yourselves. In otherwords they should be held accountable within the walls of AA. I am not sure if this happens or if they are given a slap on the wrist or if they are protected and not punished? Perhaps you can enlighten me Admiral ^_^

Could it perhaps be that ... "WoD is lame?" <TopwolfUtopia> ... sorry huh?
"WoD is lame?" <TopwolfUtopia>
one more time
"WoD is lame" <TopwolfUtopia>
Thaaaat's right...
#39  
View Public Profile Find more posts by NeoTaz Add NeoTaz to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 57/452
(23-Feb-2002 at 22:08)
Quote:
(Originally posted by NeoTaz)

"It is your fault if you get declared a target, we do not seek out anyone as a target, but many seek out AA kingdoms as targets, and that is where the problem comes in." (by Snikja)

I remember this not being the case in the latest publically noted dishonor by AA on MeMo.

Admiral, glad to hear you would go ##:## rather than call in others...wish your other members would do the same. Also if you truely believe ##:## odds are not fair and do not go with the true nature of the game then why do it? Secondly, Diplomacy should almost never fail...A good diplomat can always combat the situation. The main obsticle to diplomacy in this game is pride. You should always give diplomacy as many chances as needed before Action. And when action takes place then it should be of a fair nature (Pit one province of equal size against the opposition...if you need to up the ante to ##:## then do so...##:## is just ridiculous (and yes the odds where more than this on certain guys in MeMo))
NeoTaz:

I have asked this 1000 times over. What do you propose we do. Assume for just one moment that you are the leader of the AA. One of your Alliance KDs has just been double teamed, By 2 known DCX KDs (DCX is a fake alliance for the purposes of this suposicion.) Not only did they double team this one AA KD, but as of right now 72 hours after it all started. diplomates have been working on it for the past 70+ hours. Still no yeilding from the DCX KD's. So should we just let our members be harmed? We exact pay back quickly and effecently because of our sheer number. It was worong of DCX to hit us, so why is it wrong for us to hit them?

Signature suspended by Brother Green for violating the forum's rules.
#40  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Admiral S3 Add Admiral S3 to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump:

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Anti-Alliance Cookbook bryan00 Alliances Discussions 66 18-Oct-2005 03:38
Whats the point of alliances? ishmail Alliances Discussions 124 24-Aug-2003 17:16
Allainces lossing a lot of members? moison100 ND Alliances Discussions 89 10-Dec-2002 23:58
hmmmm Korgaul Alliances Discussions 22 10-Jun-2002 03:48
Utopian History liebs19 The Lunatic Asylum 5 27-Jun-2001 11:21


All times are GMT+1. The time now is 11:17.

Powered by vBulletin (modified)
Copyright ©2000-2006, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.