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(09-May-2008 at 23:42)


Re: On Logic and God

Originally Posted by Pollock: View Post
You said it yourself God doesnt fit into the universe as we know it today. I dont disagree with you on that - however how we think the universe is composed is just an idea not a reality. There have been many incorrect ideas through history and whats saying that this isnt yet one of them?.Time will tell.
Excellent point. Scientists have made claim that entire universe is using smae laws of physics that apply in our own Solar System. However during the studies of blackholes and similar it seems that our laws of physics do not fully apply as they are in some findings. Besides I'd say we've learned maybe 3% of physics. To learn rest 97% physics we need to go in space.

Universe is much more complex than Scientists have thought until this day. Complexity of black holes and anomilies in their studies have slowly revealed tiny bit the true complexiness of universe. But in scientific way we're on right course. But when some thought we reached finish line in Physics, the truth is we haven't even left from the racks. But in order to learn more the physics universe and eventually logic, we should travel into space. Maybe logic and God do fit after all... Who knows ^^ Until we've learned more about universe, that matter is matter of choice and believing.

Generalization is rhetorics of simpletons.
"Sages learn from history... idiots learn from experience" -Fairy Tail manga
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(10-May-2008 at 03:32)


scientific laws are always correct under their own domains.

Quote:
To learn rest 97% physics we need to go in space.
there is no absolute science. Humans invent more science. Invention of circuits is a great example. Electricity was out there, and humans built on top of it. Carbon nanotubes are a great new example, as well as memristors. What is known in science is absolute in the domain in which it is used, that is unquestionable. If not society wouldn't even exist as it is today. Would anybody build a bridge on things that nobody is sure about.
Quote:
we should travel into space
Large Hadron Collider. I dont think much new science can be found in space at all. What lies ahead is in technology and particle physics. At least for now, and there is plenty to be learned here on earth before going to space.
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(10-May-2008 at 14:04)


Scientists thought speed of light is same constantly, yet scientists have discovered that speed of light is not constant but varies depending on surrounding. So called dark matter seems to affect speed of light, making it travel slower in part where is nothing. Blackholes gravity fields affect speed of light and blackholes themselves absorb light completely.

Who knows what other kind of phenom's determ the things we think are constant and none-changing ones? Only humans can be so arrogant that they think they can unlock secrets of universe never leaving this rock.

Generalization is rhetorics of simpletons.
"Sages learn from history... idiots learn from experience" -Fairy Tail manga
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(Posted as matinog)
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(12-May-2008 at 02:11)


ok, the only reasons for us to believe something to be true is because it acts like it is in all the circumstances were it can be possibly be known to occur. If something changes a law, it changes its limits.

and how on earth would leaving earth lead to the discovery of anything physics wise? there is still plenty to be done on earth.

maybe in 100 years science will be so advanced that space travel will be profitable and easy. But then that doesn't lead to any discoveries at all since its just space travel and nothing else.

can you link to the dark matter related article? im pretty sure it's not a law or anything.
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(25-May-2008 at 19:39)
I think god is a tool to control people.
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(26-May-2008 at 06:09)
Re: On Logic and God

Originally Posted by Ninjoo: View Post
I think god is a tool to control people.
That's one use. Not all of God has a use though.
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(13-Jun-2008 at 07:55)


Re: On Logic and God

Originally Posted by Ninjoo: View Post
I think god is a tool to control people.
Maybe some people use him as a means of control, however think back to what Jesus did to those corrupt priests who did the same thing to get money from worshippers.

Quote:
Large Hadron Collider. I dont think much new science can be found in space at all. What lies ahead is in technology and particle physics. At least for now, and there is plenty to be learned here on earth before going to space.
Yes, there is much potential to find much about the workings of our existing Universe using this device. Scientists hope to discover the Higgs-Boson, the supposed "god particle".

Touching on the "what is reality" subject, I read a very interesting article in this month's Discover magazine. In this article the writer interviews a man by the name of Max Tegmark. In this interview he describes his hypothesis of an existence of a "Multiverse".
In an issue of Astronomy magazine (I think it is from about 2 or 3 months ago), there was an article that talks about how our universe may be located in one dimension of many.
This month's Scientific American magazine has an article called The Cosmic Origins of Time's Arrow. The writer talks about the flow of time and asks the question, "Why does time seem only to move forward?". This article makes me think, "How can there not be a God? There are so many things out there that are too coincidental for there not to be one." At least that's my belief.

Refusal to comprimise only succeeds in driving the devil's bargain. However, when one comprimises one's morals, they become the devil's bargain.
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(15-Jun-2008 at 11:18)


Re: On Logic and God

Originally Posted by Blind Seer: View Post
This article makes me think, "How can there not be a God? There are so many things out there that are too coincidental for there not to be one." At least that's my belief.
Huh? These last few lines do not follow from the rest of your post. There's a few problems with this line of reasoning, I'll name some prominent ones:

1. If this universe was not fit to evolve our kind of life (that is carbon-based water-dependent life forms), for example due to it being impossible for heavy elements to be formed, then we wouldn't be here to wonder at how great the universe is for us.
In other words: the universe fits well enough to our needs because we wouldn't be here if it didn't. Saying that some things are too perfect to suit us is turning the whole thing on its head!

2. You just mentioned the multiverse. It is a very real possibility that there is an infinity of different universes. Many of those may not be suitable for any kind of life. Many others may have life that is vastly different from anything we can imagine. We obviously live in one of the universes fit for our kind of life, see point 1 again.

3. A variation on #2 is the idea of an endless cycle of universes. This universe might just end up in a Big Crunch after all, and that may cause the whole process to start again. Maybe next time the universe does not have the right kind of laws to form life (or at least, our kind of life). Maybe it didn't for the past trillion times. This time it does of course.

4. Another variation on #2. Again we picture the multiverse, but this time with the idea that black holes can create new universes. I have no idea why, I read about this a while ago and it is the kind of physics that I'm just not prepared to spend months on to understand (at least for now).
The theory holds that enormously massive objects can create new universes. The basic idea is that the mass gets so large that it distorts space-time sufficiently to break off from this universe and start a new one. This theory would therefore mean that multiple universes exist, and that new ones come into existence from old ones. If we assume that they inherit some of the laws of their old universe, then we'd come to the conclusion that there must be many universes with the right kind of laws to create black holes: that is, laws at least somewhat reminiscent of our own. This is because that kind of universe is more likely to procreate and create new universes with similar laws. Yes, this is actually natural selection applied to universes.
(I know it is far-fetched and I personally do not understand the physics behind it, but it is fascinating stuff.)

I can think of quite a few others, mainly more philosophical ones, but I hope you get the point that your reasoning is vastly insufficient.

Last edited by Apeiron, 15-Jun-2008 at 11:20.
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(15-Jun-2008 at 11:41)


Re: On Logic and God

Originally Posted by Blind Seer: View Post
This month's Scientific American magazine has an article called The Cosmic Origins of Time's Arrow. The writer talks about the flow of time and asks the question, "Why does time seem only to move forward?". This article makes me think, "How can there not be a God? There are so many things out there that are too coincidental for there not to be one." At least that's my belief.
Ugh, your writer should read up on some philosophy. That question has been answered some 300 years ago by Kant already.

1. Time only seems to move forward because time is not something that is 'in' the universe, it's one of our forms of knowing. Everything we see, hear, feel, smell or think, is put into an order in time by the structure of our minds. We would not be aware of anything that is not located in a sequence of time. This also means that time doesn't move 'forward', it doesn't move at all. The only reason why we percieve it as such is because we structure all happenings as being 'before', at the same time, or 'after' one another.

2. The God argument has been debunked in the same book. Just as we cannot experience anything outside of time, the structuring function of our mind naturally tries to put every experience in a teleological (goal-based) structure. This has of course lead to the famous joke that 'noses are made for carrying spectacles'. Because really, it can't be a coincidence that it is so perfect for that goal.

Modern world I'm not pleased to meet you

You just bring me down
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