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(Posted as Chaos X)
Posts: 357/1495
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(15-Jan-2003 at 06:55)


Quote:
(Originally posted by de S)

nah Izzy, you don't get it.
Im marely telling You to STOP saying the bible is "fiction" because its been proven that its real.

baada bing, badda boom
What been proven is that the historical events took place, but it never prooves the bible is non-fiction.
#21  
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(Posted as Lord Drizzt)
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(15-Jan-2003 at 08:34)


Quote:
(Originally posted by MelonFarmer)

You dont know what you are talking about. You just assume anyone who is an athiest is just a lazy person who doesn'y feel like going to church. I was a Christain since I was a little kid and went to Sunday school every Sunday, read during church sermons, been baptized and even been confirmed. You make it sound if as everyone is a christian they just havent realized it. I became an athiest after exploring the bible and what I was taught and found that I could no longer bring myself to believe that there was a god anymore. Its history has been used to control people and its basic teachings warped. It can be translated so many different ways that the bible could be interpreted to justify just about anything.


And Fisher your post does not prove the bible is correct it just suggests that christianity is a very old religion.
definition of christian: one who worships God, one who believes Jesus Christ was a form of God, one who fears and obeys God.

definition of stereotypical christian: one who goes to church on sunday, one who is baptized, one who tithes weekly, one who reads the bible.

know the difference. were you a christian? think carefully.


and TAB69: welcome back. try to follow the UT rules this time

s o u l f i r e
#22  
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(15-Jan-2003 at 09:33)


Quote:
What been proven is that the historical events took place, but it never prooves the bible is non-fiction.
go read any history books covering 1800's or earlier. now, from that, u cant even prove if certain events happened, nor can u prove the motivations and the conditions for the event. unless u want to go and say every single history book in existence is a work of fiction, dont say the Bible isnt, cause i doubt u can find an event in the bible that did not happen (whether it may be God's will or not)

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#23  
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(15-Jan-2003 at 09:41)
Quote:
(Originally posted by de S)

nah Izzy, you don't get it.
Im marely telling You to STOP saying the bible is "fiction" because its been proven that its real.

baada bing, badda boom
Forget it girl...he wont listen to you but instead force you listen to his "facts" so I suggest you not talk to him about it anymore because he'll just throw some of his "facts" back at you and call you an ignorant prick if you laugh it off
#24  
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(15-Jan-2003 at 11:41)


Quote:
(Originally posted by Dilbert)

go read any history books covering 1800's or earlier. now, from that, u cant even prove if certain events happened, nor can u prove the motivations and the conditions for the event. unless u want to go and say every single history book in existence is a work of fiction, dont say the Bible isnt, cause i doubt u can find an event in the bible that did not happen (whether it may be God's will or not)
i dont think a whole town of people got turned into salt. I dont think the devil or son of god walked on earth. I dont think 5000 were fed by 5 fish and 5 loaves of bread. I dont think ther was a global flood. I dont think there was a garden of eden. i dont think lepers were cured by touch. I dont think a lot of it happened. I think the stuff which did happen and is attributed to god was only attributed to god because the people of the time did not understand what was really happening. So yeh i reckon maybe the people who wrote it believed it was the truth MAYBE but if they did they only thought it was true due to ignorance of how things really work and fearing this ignorance they created god. THis is why you may have some real events in the bible, but just because the events themselves really happened doesnt meen they happened for the reasons stated in the bible!

-:knowledge is meerly a degree of how strongly you belive something, if you know something then you believe it to be true beyond all doubt:-
#25  
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(15-Jan-2003 at 12:11)


I suggest to all those that want a reference to what the Bible is in my opinion go read "The Odyssey", elsewise you won't get what I'm trying to say too clearly. This is a high possibility that the Bible was based on historical events, but in turn, such as The Odyssey was, it was exaggerated and changed repeatedly by different people as it was preached, due to the fact at early times people didn't have use of writing. Only until later did this occur, and by then the teachings and stories were warped beyond belief. It may have started as just a fairy-tale that gained too many attributes of religion and then was believed to be so. The spreading of information back then was far too hard, as people lived distances that walking and riding weren't well suited for. I think that the Bible is merely an Epic, one that differs from The Odyssey by Homer but has the same initial qualities.

And no, the Bible has not been proven, or I would not still be here as an Atheist to this day. If it is ever proven, I will return to believing there is someone up there laughing at us from atop a cloud, but until then I will not waste time that way. There may be certain artifacts that uphold events, but those events, if my theory is correct, were twisted and influenced by the constant spread of information and the exaggeration that a human likely does which changes the story. Think of it as one Ancient Epic that has gone wrong.
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Old TFU
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(15-Jan-2003 at 13:08)


geez, they've deciphered the 'bible code' and found references to 9/11, of cause it's true. geez!

or maybe some cryptogrophers have too much time on their hands.

i've not read the bible, and i don;t intend to. not cos i'm scared, but because it's a big book and there are lots of other books, some big, some small, that i would rather read.

i don't think the fact that i haven't read it affects my agnosticism in any way.
after all, if i read a book that said 'some giant dood with a fish's head knocked down a building once'. and then i saw a program in which they found the ruins of a building that had been knocked down around the same time and in roughly the same place the book claimed, i wouldn't start worrying about crazed fish-headed giants.

_______________________________________
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#27  
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(15-Jan-2003 at 16:23)
Ahh all the brilliant "liberal" ppl who are here to correct a religion and make history. Its ironic how they are so "liberal and open minded" and tell us to believe other things when they themselves refuse to be fully "open minded". Simply brilliant!
#28  
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(User is Banned)
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(15-Jan-2003 at 17:29)
Quite often in ancient times facts were not told has they happened, but mostly as an interpretation.

For peole in ancient times, stars were not like the sun, a falling start was not a meteorite as we know it, and unusual events were often atributed super-natural causes (lightning, earthquakes and so on...).

There is such thing called supersticion, and I believe the bible has a lot of it. I think I also recal some people portraiting the atitudes of the older religious towards christ as him being the leader of a new sect. Of course there are new sects now a days, that some religious people look as false and ridiculous, and yet even thou those people report "miracles and blessings" in recent times many prefer to believe in "miracles and blessings" that happened 2k years ago and there is not even a witsess!

"Im Behind You" didn't, acording to the bible, man got free will after eating the forbiden fruit?

Lord Drizzt, one who fears and obeys God?
In jail they use a name for someone who fears and obeys someone else. (sorry this one was nasty, but if you put things that way, I won't be able to help myself *the demons inside make me do it!* )

This is merely my opinion as devil sent person to divert the sheep from the "true" way.

Even if all the expert agreed they might still be wrong.
Blinder then the blind man is the man that does not want to see. Convictions have hurt more the truth then lies.
The supreme victory is to win without doing battle.- Sun Tzu

Live each day as if it was your last. One day you will be right!
#29  
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(Posted as PhoenixBD)
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(15-Jan-2003 at 17:36)


Yes the Bible can teach morals but does that mean it has to be inspired by God? And of course it will have some historical backround evidence as it was written in that time. People are crazy if they think the Bible was actually inspired be a god.

There is no way to know if it is even historically correct. They have found some historical errors in the bible.

Life is a test and I get bad marks.

Last edited by Hurleyy, 15-Jan-2003 at 17:38.
#30  
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(15-Jan-2003 at 17:42)


The bible is flawed, or else they would not have 16 different versions. (that is all that I could find) Does that mean that I believe the bible to be false....no. We use the King James version. That is the version that we have been told is the most accurate. This is why we have the Book of Mormon. Now before you start saying that Joseph Smith was a false prophet. Consider this. A boy about the age of 16 years old. With no schooling, writing that book. With all of the foot notes and references to the bible and other parts of the book. If you don't believe me on how hard it was, go pick up a copy and check to see what the references are. I am sure if you stopped by the church on a sunday, they would be more than happy to provide you with a copy.


I don't think they are 'scared' of the bible. It is their decision to believe it, or not to. Thats what makes us all different. If we were all the same, life would be extremely boring.

anyway...just my 2 cents



ps. If you have not read the Bible, or in my case the Book of Mormon, then please refrain from commenting on them. Without even attempting to read or understand them, there is no way that you can make an educated comment.
#31  
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(15-Jan-2003 at 18:36)
ok, could you believers out there explain the whole adam and eve situation?

where they the only ppl on earth?

if yes, does that mean that God thinks that Incest is right?
#32  
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(15-Jan-2003 at 18:37)


I just found this post today, and have 3 comments to make.

#1. Regarding the different versions of the Bible, visit this site for a pretty good explanation: http://www.chick.com/reading/books/158/158_43.asp

#2. If there is no God, why do so many people feel the need to prove He doesn't exist?

#3. To everyone who doesn't believe in literal Heaven and Hell, what if you're wrong?

Something to think about.
#33  
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(Posted as PhoenixBD)
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(15-Jan-2003 at 18:40)


Just a counter to what you said, what if all you who believe in heaven and hell, what if you are wrong? No eternal reward for you. Even if I believed in God I wouldn't believe in a literal heaven and hell.

Life is a test and I get bad marks.
#34  
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(15-Jan-2003 at 18:43)


Quote:
(Originally posted by Little Kid Izzy)

Just no. I am not scared of a fictional book.

The bible meets the qualifications for a fictional novel. That is why I base it so. If someone can prove different, good.
yea, ive read it and im an Atheist, seems like it was written as a little kids bedtime story, its just to hard to believe and and theres no proof

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#35  
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(15-Jan-2003 at 18:44)


If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But no eternal damnation for me.

By the way, where can I get this list of historical inaccuracies in the Bible?
#36  
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(15-Jan-2003 at 18:54)


You can prove the Bible is historically and realistically accurate. However no one can prove the "other" stuff. Its something that cannot be documented and therefore must be experienced.

I have no experiences of overwhelming physical evidence, however, I have spoken to people who have had some weird experiences.

I beleive, from what I have heard and talked to people about, that if you start practicing witchcraft and the like and do it properly you may actually see results. I have no desire to do so, based on other ramifications. (The person who I spoke to is still morning the loss of her friend who died after she lost control over her mind) [[The friend stabbed herself with a knife and was found in the middle of her layout of certain materials she used for her studies]]

I would like to see more research done on this sort of stuff to see if the it is totally real or not. That way it will end or quell whether or not the Bible is completely factual or partially fasle.

I'm not crazy, I'm just maniacally inclined!
#37  
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(15-Jan-2003 at 19:18)


The problem with discussions like this is that there is no middle ground, no common pretense that both sides accept.

As a Christian, I believe in the infallibility of the Bible, and that everything in it not told as a parable is meant literally. The only thing I have to defend myself against atheists is my faith in God. (This, by the way, is what God intended. If everything in the Bible could be proven to everyone's satisfaction, there wouldn't be any challenge to believe it. Faith in a belief without something to challenge that belief is useless. Sorta like having faith in gravity.)

As atheists, you obviously believe that no god exists, and that mankind has evolved into its currrent position and condition. You back your beliefs with science.

These two positions are inherently irreconcilable, so any attempt at debate is futile. It is similar to the debate on abortion (please don't start one, it won't accomplish anything either), in that the basic argument depends on your view on the beginning of life. Since both sides have different views on this subject, any debate on it will only inflame tempers and won't change anyone's mind.
#38  
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(Posted as PhoenixBD)
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(15-Jan-2003 at 19:30)


ckelite if you check the Do You Believe in God? thread and Creation vs. Evolution I listed many innaccuracies and God breaking his own Commandments.

Most Christians find ways to bend the words in the bible to their favor. Whether it be a contradiction or whether something is innaccurate. For example I can say "the cow jumped over the moon". Now there are many ways to interpret this but you dont know how I meant it. It can simply mean the cow jumped over the moon. I can say "go over there", there are also many ways you can bend this, but it simply means "go over there".

Bending something to make it something it isn't, isn't my type of evidence.

Life is a test and I get bad marks.
#39  
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(User is Banned)
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(15-Jan-2003 at 20:43)


Once the proof has been shown, it is too late to believe.

Belief requires faith. There is no room for faith if there is proof.

You seek proof and find none, how fortunate are you that you may still believe? Very, indeed.

If it works for them, they will use it.
If it doesn't work for them, they may still use it.
#40  
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