Utopia Temple
Main Forum Page Register an Account for Free! Calendar Frequently Asked Questions about this Board View New Posts Advanced Search Login
  Utopia Temple Forums > General Discussions > Respectable General Discussions > Religious Discussions

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Post New Thread Reply
Author Thread
Posts: 139/309
(18-Mar-2004 at 02:08)


If Jesus existed was he gay?

Quote:
Indications that Jesus did have a homosexual orientation:
"In the Gospel of John, the disciple John frequently refers to himself in the third person as "the disciple whom Jesus loved'." 4 For example, during the Last Supper before Jesus' execution, he describes how the "beloved" disciple laid himself on Jesus' inner tunic -- his undergarment. See John 13:25 and 21:20. Robert Goss, assistant professor of comparative religion at Webster University in St. Louis, LA, noted that Jesus and the beloved disciple: "... eat together, side by side. What's being portrayed here is a pederastic relationship between an older man and a younger man. A Greek reader would understand." 5 Jesus appears to have loved all of his male and female followers in a close, trusting, non-erotic manner. However, the "beloved" disciple appears to be in a special relationship with Jesus; the disciple was "the" beloved. He was in a class by himself.

On the other hand: Some commentators have suggested that it was a common practice in Judea at that time for heterosexual man to lay his head on another's undergarment. Such behavior was common between two heterosexuals in an emotionally close but non-erotic relationship during the first century CE. 6
Jenny Stokes, research director for Saltshakers, a conservative Christian group in Australia, said that there are five words for love in Greek (the language in which the Gospels were written: Agape: spiritual, unconditional love,
Eros: erotic love,
Philia: love between friends,
Storge: familial love.

The Gospel references to "the disciple whom Jesus loved" use the word "agape." 3 Whether they originally used "eros" and were subsequently changed is open to speculation.


"Jagannath" interprets the Gospels differently. He argues that Jesus may have been bisexual. He wrote: "In the Book of John a word is used eight times that means 'is in love with' with the implication of sexual intimacy. Five times it is used with reference to Jesus' relationship with John. Once it is used to define Jesus' relationship with Lazarus. And it is also used to describe his relationship with Mary and with her sister Martha." 7
During the crucifixion, in John 19:26-28, Jesus is described as seeing his mother and an unidentified man: "the disciple standing by, whom he loved." Jesus probably loved all of his 12 or 70 disciples in a non-sexual manner. But this particular disciple is identified as "the" disciple who Jesus loved. That might indicate a special intimate relationship with one special disciple.
The late Morton Smith, of Columbia University reported in 1958 that he had found a fragment of a manuscript which at the Mar Saba monastery near Jerusalem. It contained the full text of Mark, chapter 10. Apparently the version that is in the Christian Scriptures is an edited version of the original. Additional verses allegedly formed part of the full version of Mark, and were inserted after verse 34. It discusses how a young man, naked but for a linen covering, expressed his love for Jesus and stayed at his place all night. More details.
"J Richards" suggested that Mark 7:14-16 shows that Jesus approves of homosexual acts. The critical phrase reads: "There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him..." Richards suggests that Jesus gave great emphasis to this teaching, directing it to everyone. Richards suggests that the sentence refers to dietary laws and also extends to "blood transfusions, medication, organ transplants, and artificial insemination" and to homosexual acts. 8

On the other hand, these words have historically been interpreted as overturning the Mosaic law about eating,
Rollan McCleary, was awarded his doctorate in 2003-MAY for his work researching the sexual orientation of Jesus and his disciples. He obtained about $33,000 US in funding from the government to finance his degree. He concluded that Jesus and at least three of his disciples were gay. He based this conclusion on excerpts from the Gospel of John and on Jesus' astrological chart based on the approximate year, month, day and place where he was born. Considering that many theologians have concluded that Jesus was born sometime in the Fall, between 4 and 7 BCE, it is difficult to understand how an accurate astrological chart can be prepared. Dr. McCleary told Australian Broadcasting Commission radio that, in the past, "one or two queer theologians" had attempted to show Jesus was gay. "People haven't taken them very seriously because they don't have any evidence and they say things so sensationally that people are not really going to listen or just be very angry. What I'm doing is showing a much more theological and also astrological dimension on all this which will make a lot more sense to people." He has written a book based on his doctoral thesis which does not appear to be available at this time. 9
An anonymous webmaster wrote about a revelation that he received during her/his daily prayer and meditation: "Suddenly many aspects of the New Testament made sense. Jesus never married. He preached love, tolerance, and forgiveness of sins. He did not condemn and vilify as his so-called followers do today. He surrounded himself with men whom he loved. The Bible says nothing of Jesus' sexuality, yet we are taught that he was both divine and fully man. Why did he never marry? Why is the New Testament silent about his sexuality? It became so clear when I had the insight that Jesus was probably gay and that He understood hatred and bigotry first-hand." 10
Mark 14:51-52 describes the incident when Jesus was arrested by the religious police. It describes how one of Jesus' followers was scantily dressed. The King James Version says he had a linen cloth cast on his naked body; the size and location of the cloth is not defined. The New International Version says that he was "wearing nothing but a linen garment." When the police tried to seize him, they were able to grab only his cloth; the man ran away naked. Reverend Peter Murphy wrote: "We don't know from the sources what really was going on, but we do know that something was very peculiar between Jesus and young men." 11 (Emphasis in the original.)
Michael Kelly wrote of Jesus' attitude towards a same-sex couple as described in Matthew 8:5-13: and Luke 7:2: "One day a Roman Centurion asked him to heal his dying servant. Scholars of both Scripture and Ancient History tell us that Roman Centurions, who were not permitted to marry while in service, regularly chose a favourite male slave to be their personal assistant and sexual servant. Such liaisons were common in the Graeco-Roman world and it was not unusual for them to deepen into loving partnerships....Jesus offered to go to the servant, but the centurion asked him simply to speak a word of healing, since he was not worthy to welcome this itinerant Jewish teacher under his roof. Jesus responded by healing the servant and proclaiming that even in Israel he had never found faith like this! So, in the one Gospel story where Jesus encountered people sharing what we would call a 'gay relationship,' we see him simply concerned about and deeply moved by their faith and love." Kelly implies that Jesus' sensitivity towards the gay couple might have arisen from his own bisexual or homosexual orientation. 1
Some commentators argue from silence. They note that there is no passage in the Christian Scriptures (New Testament) that directly describes anything about Jesus' sexuality. There are many direct and indirect references to Jesus' sensuality. He was accused of being a "drunkard and a glutton" and of partying with "prostitutes and sinners." He apparently enjoyed a tender foot massage from a woman. Yet, neither Jesus' sexuality nor his celibacy is mentioned. Yet, sex is referred to, elsewhere in the Bible, quite often . One might argue that the books in the Christian Scriptures might have once described Jesus' sexual relationships, but that these passages have been vigorously censored by the later church because they were unconventional.
Other commentators have noted that Jesus is silent towards homosexuality in the Gospels. Yet, Paul's opinions and those of many other authors in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) are clearly stated. They conclude that Jesus might have been gay himself. Odler Jeanlouie speculated: "Is it meaningful that, in the Sermon on the Mount, central to his teaching, he offered a one-way trip to the Kingdom of God, to anyone who is persecuted?" 12
Quote:
references: 5 to 12

Hank Hyena, "Was Jesus Gay: A search for the messiah's true sexuality leads to a snare of lusty theories," 1998-APR, Salon.com, at: http://www.salon.com/
James Holding, "Leaning on a broken reed," Tektonics Apologetics Ministries, at: http://www.tektonics.org/
Jagannath, "Was Jesus Gay? Or: Can We Finally Let Him Out of the Closet?," at: http://www.geocities.com/
J Richards, "Jesus Speaks of Homosexual Acts," Rainbow Alliance, at: http://rainbowallianceopenfaith.homestead.com/
"Jesus was gay, says academic," smh.com.au, 2003-MAY-29, at: http://www.smh.com.au/
"Was Jesus gay?," at: http://www.angelfire.com/ct/gayjesus/
Reverend Peter Murphy, "The Sexuality of Jesus?," at: http://kspark.kaist.ac.kr/
Odler Robert Jeanlouie, "Was Jesus Gay?," 2001-JUL-19 at: http://www.readnrun.com/
#1  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Steigerr Add Steigerr to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
(Posted as RavEMasteR)
(User is Banned)
Posts: 1330/2492
(18-Mar-2004 at 02:13)


I've ALWAYS thought he was gay. Now I'm just getting more support.

Religion is the mental disease of the masses.
"Once again, religion is like sniffing gasoline. Both cause permanant brain damage." -- Obsidian
#2  
View Public Profile Find more posts by dothackRAVE Add dothackRAVE to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 705/2162
(18-Mar-2004 at 02:58)


Re: If Jesus existed was he gay?

Quote:
(Originally posted by Steigerr)
Does it matter?
Jesus taught us how to deal with people! whether it be straight or gay, whether it be Jew or gentile!
It is how we conduct ourselves and what is in our hearts!

Work like you will live forever and live like you will die tommorrow!
#3  
View Public Profile Find more posts by PatrioticSpirit Add PatrioticSpirit to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 36/72
(18-Mar-2004 at 03:25)


Quote:
Jesus taught us how to deal with people! whether it be straight or gay, whether it be Jew or gentile!

And his father tells us to kill them. Romans 1:31-32 tells us to kill homosexuals and their supporters.



Right and wrong is not what separates us from our enemies. It's our different standpoints, our perspectives that seperate us. Both sides blame one another. There's no good or bad side, Just two sides holding different views .
#4  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Grey wings Add Grey wings to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 448/557
(18-Mar-2004 at 03:46)


Quote:
(Originally posted by Grey wings)

And his father tells us to kill them. Romans ##:##-32 tells us to kill homosexuals and their supporters.
Yet another way that the bible contradicts itself.

Please come and visit my Homepage
The Eternally Mourning Phoenix
Avid Shakepeare Fan
Participant in Bringing fine Babes to UT..Here
#5  
View Public Profile Find more posts by ShadowPhoenix Add ShadowPhoenix to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 19/43
(18-Mar-2004 at 21:37)
that's what they deserve, not telling people to go out and kill them -_-;. according to the Bible, (because you're using it, so will i) all have fallen short of the glory of God, therefore we all deserve to die because we sinned. that does not mean that we should go out and kill everyone who sins, because then there will be no one left. also, the Bible says that if people believe that Jesus is the way to heaven and they repent for their sins, then they will not die(spiritually)-- they have been redeemed and forgiven. and i do not think that Jesus was gay. the kind of love that He has for His disciples is agape type of love, not eros. -_-;

Yeah i run like the river, dance like the summer, joy is in my heart, You have satisfied.
#6  
View Public Profile Find more posts by stee Add stee to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 1568/4829
(18-Mar-2004 at 21:55)


Jesus was not gay. He just loved all humans like a father has love for his children. The special love he felt for his disciples was not sexual love.

The whole premise of Jesus is that he was sinless and hence was a perfect sacrifice for our sins. Had Jesus engaged in sexual deviance he would have sinned and thus would not have been the Massiah.
#7  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Royal Assassin3 Add Royal Assassin3 to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 141/309
(19-Mar-2004 at 00:28)


Quote:
The whole premise of Jesus is that he was sinless and hence was a perfect sacrifice for our sins
This leads me to what should be another thread but I will paste it in here:

What does the Bible say about Jesus behavior?
The Bible, if interpreted literally, appears ambiguous about whether Jesus was without sin. Passages from the King James Version are listed below:

In the Gospel of Luke, Jesus is described as being righteous and having done nothing wrong -- or at least, not anything that was criminal in nature: Luke 23:39-41: One of the criminals who was crucified beside Jesus stated that Jesus had done nothing amiss. Various translations say that he has "done nothing wrong" or "done nothing criminal", "done no evil", "hasn't done one thing wrong." The King James Version says: "Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss."
Luke 23:47: A Roman centurion guard at the crucifixion site said that Jesus was righteous: "Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, Certainly this was a righteous man."

Elsewhere in the Christian Scriptures, Paul and various other authors state unequivocally that Jesus was without sin: 2 Corinthians 5:21: "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."
Hebrews 4:15: "For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin."
1 Peter 2:21-22: "...because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth."
1John 3:5: "And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin."

There is an ambiguous reference to Jesus and sin in Hebrews: Hebrews 7:26-28: The author refers to Jesus: "For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. Describing Jesus as undefiled might indicate that he was in a state of sinlessness. But later, Jesus is compared to a high priest: the latter offered a sacrifice daily -- first for his own sins and then for the sins of the rest of the population. Jesus is described as doing this only once, at his execution. This passage might imply that Jesus copied the acts of the high priest, by offering himself as a sacrifice: first for his own sins and then for those of the rest of humanity.

A remarkable incident occurred during Jesus' ministry when a follower referred to him as "Good Master" -- a term that was rarely used to refer to a rabbi or teacher. Jesus replied, implying that he was not God, that he was not "good," and that only God is good: Mark 10:17-18: "And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God."
Matthew 19:16-17: "And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God..."
Luke 18:18-19: "And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God."


The Jerome Biblical Commentary attempts to harmonize this apparent conflict. It states that the phrase "Good Master" was "a rarely used epithet for a rabbi." Thus, Jesus' response might have implied that "the epithet 'good' being proper to God, should not be used indiscriminately and casually." 1,2 Still, the passages in the three synoptic gospels records Jesus as rejecting the suggestion that he was all good; i.e. without sin.



Actions by Jesus that might be considered sinful if done by an ordinary human:
The following activities might have been considered sinful, if performed by an ordinary person:

Harvesting on the Sabbath: The various versions of the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:2-17, Exodus 34:12-26, and Deuteronomy 5:6-21) all contain prohibitions against working on Saturday, the sabbath day. For example, Exodus 8:8-11 states:
"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work...For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."

Deuteronomy 5:21 states that on the sabbath, "in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest." Jews were prohibited from harvesting crops or preparing a meal on the sabbath; observant Jews still are. Exodus 35:2 states: ...but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death. Numbers 15:32-36 described a man who was executed because he gathered wood on Saturday.

But Matthew 12:1-6 states: "At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat. But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day." (The "corn" referred to in the King James Version of the Bible is really referring to a grain crop.) Mark 2:23-28 describes the same incident. In Luke 6:1-5, the disciples' sin was not to pluck and eat the ears of grain; it was the act of rubbing the ears between their hands to extract the kernels.

Jesus justified the activities of his disciples, by referring to David obtaining the consecrated shewbread from "Abiathar the high priest" on a sabbath, and eating it. (In reality, there was no high priest during the time of David; that office was created much later. 3 Also, 1 Samuel 21:1-6 identifies Ahimelech as the priest who gave the shewbread to David, not Abiathar).

The source of sin in this incident is "Jesus' violating or condoning violation of the Sabbath law, one of the most sacred and distinctive of all Jewish institutions." 3

Eating without washing one's hands, etc: Pharisees and scribes observed that some of Jesus' disciples did not wash their hands prior to eating. Mark 7:2-3 states: "And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault. For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders." Matthew 15:1-4 also describes this same incident. The author emphasized the Pharisee's belief that to not wash one's hands before eating was to dishonor one's parents traditions, a violation of one of the Ten Commandments. In Matthew 15:11, Jesus states "Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man." This is a radical statement. It "implies the setting aside of the entire dietary and ritual cleansing code, oral and written" of the Torah. 4 This verse negates much of the Mosaic law. Later in verses 13-14, Jesus is recorded as stating "...Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up. Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch." This is a veiled "denunciation of the leaders of Israel as constituting a group which has no rightful claim to call itself the people of God. Matthew records Jesus as transforming "a critique of Jewish institutions into a repudiation of Judaism itself." 5
One source of sin in this incident is Jesus condoning his disciples' eating without washing their hands. A far greater sin was to negate much of the Mosaic law as being without value. Finally, he made a treasonous attack on the legitimacy of the Jewish leadership; this might have been considered a capital crime in those days.

Transferring demons into about 2,000 pigs: Mark 5:8-14, Matthew 8:28-34 and Luke 8:27-39 describe an incident in which Jesus exorcised a man who had been tormented by about 2,000 demons. Jesus sent the demons into a nearby herd of pigs. Mark 5:13 states: "...And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand and were choked in the sea.
In this case, the sin was to destroy the livelihood of the farmer(s) who owned the pigs. Jesus presumably could have transferred all 2,000 demons into a single pig, and thus minimized the economic hardship to the farmer. He could perhaps have even transferred all of the demons into a rock, and totally avoided financial loss to the farmer.

Verbally attacking the Pharisees: Luke 11:37-54 describes a meeting over a meal between Jesus and a Pharisee. Jesus angrily and abusively attacked all Pharisees, saying that their "inward part is full of ravening and wickedness." He refers to the Pharisees as "you fools," "hypocrites." In Matthew 23:13-36, Jesus refers to them as "blind guides," "blind fools," extortionists, unclean, serpents, a brood of vipers, murderers, persecutors, and full of iniquity, etc.
The sin in this case is to attack another individual for their religious beliefs and practices. To call them fools is particularly serious. In Matthew 5:22, Jesus is recorded as saying: "...anyone who says to his brother 'Raca' is answerable to the Sanhedrin [the Council]. But anyone who says 'You fool' will be in danger of the hell fire" (NIV) That passage seems to imply that a single insult of the type that Jesus made is sufficient to place an ordinary person in danger of going to Hell.

Personal habits: In Matthew 11:19 and Luke 7:34, Jesus is called a "gluttonous man and a winebibber" i.e. a glutton and a drunk.
Physical assaults in the Temple: The Torah outlines the rituals that Jews were required to perform in the Temple. These were often ritual sacrifices of animals such as doves, lambs, sheep, and oxen. Pilgrims came to the Temple from various lands, and first had to change the currency of their country of origin into temple coinage at moneychanger tables. Only then were they able to purchase animals to be ritually killed by the priests. Mark 11:15, Matt 21:12-15, Luke 19:45-47 and John 2:14-16 describe an incident in which Jesus entered the temple grounds and attacked the vendors there. He overturned the tables of the moneychangers, spilling their coins onto the ground. He overturned the seats of those who sold doves. He made "a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple" by whipping them.
The sin in this case is the common assault of individuals engaged in commerce -- proprietors of various businesses needed by the pilgrims to fulfill their religious obligations. Some theologians suspect that this attack would certainly have been observed by the Roman army garrison. During Passover time, they were placed on a state of high alert, fearing that Jewish nationalism might trigger a revolt at that time of year. The soldiers were stationed in a position to oversee Temple activities. Some believe that the various trials of Jesus which are described in the Gospels never happened. They suspect that Jesus was immediately arrested after the assaults in the Temple, was tried by a relatively junior Roman officer for inciting a riot, and was quickly executed.

Conspiracy to steal animals: In Mark 11:2-4, Matt 21:2-3, and Luke 19:30-31, Jesus instructs two of his disciples to go into a village - perhaps Bethany. They were to locate a colt tied up near the entrance, and to return with it. If someone stopped them they were to explain that the Lord had need of it. Otherwise, they were simply to steal the colt without paying for it or obtaining permission.

In Matthew's account, they were to steal both an ass and a colt, and Jesus somehow rode into Jerusalem astride both animals. Liberal theologians interpret this strange arrangement as a misunderstanding by the author of Matthew of Zechariah 9:9 "...behold, thy King cometh unto thee... lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass." One commentator wrote: "Matthew misunderstood the Hebrew parallelism by which the lines were matched by sense rather than by sound." 6 Hebrew poetry makes almost no use of rhyme and no direct use of meter. Rather, the "units of thought in each line of the poem [are] enhanced compared or emphasized by their relationship to those in a parallel line." 7 Thus, Zechariah is referring to the same animal, twice. The author of Matthew misinterpreted the passage and believed that it referred to two separate animals. The authors of the Gospels of Mark, Luke and John did not make this mistake. In Mark 11:7, Luke 19:35, and John 12:14-15, they describe Jesus as riding on a single animal: a young donkey or colt.

The sin in this case was conspiracy to commit theft.
Prejudice based on race or nationality: Matthew 15:22-28 describes an incident between Jesus and a Canaanite woman. Mark 7:25-30 describes the same incident, identifying her as Greek/Syrophenician. One commentary on the Bible explains that "The inhabitants of this area were racially and linguistically connected with the ancient Canaanites." 8 She pleaded with Jesus to cure her daughter who was possessed by a demon. He first ignored her, but then explained that he was sent only to bring the Gospel to the Jews, not to the Gentiles such as she. Jesus cruelly replied to the desperate mother that it was not right for him "to take the children's bread and to cast it to dogs." i.e. it is not appropriate to take the Gospel, which was intended only for the Jews, and offer it to Gentiles as well -- here described as sub-humans, as dogs. (Observant Jews in the 1st century CE often referred to Gentiles contemptuously as "dogs.") She quipped back to Jesus that even the "dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table." Jesus relented and, from a distance, cured the daughter of demonic possession because of the mother's faith.

The sin in this case was to treat a person of another race and/or nationality as sub-human, by referring to them as a dog.
#8  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Steigerr Add Steigerr to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
(Posted as Dannoman)
Posts: 85/192
(19-Mar-2004 at 00:49)
Quote:
(Originally posted by Steigerr)

A remarkable incident occurred during Jesus' ministry when a follower referred to him as "Good Master" -- a term that was rarely used to refer to a rabbi or teacher. Jesus replied, implying that he was not God, that he was not "good," and that only God is good: Mark ##:##-18: "And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God."
Matthew ##:##-17: "And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God..."
Luke ##:##-19: "And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God."


The Jerome Biblical Commentary attempts to harmonize this apparent conflict. It states that the phrase "Good Master" was "a rarely used epithet for a rabbi." Thus, Jesus' response might have implied that "the epithet 'good' being proper to God, should not be used indiscriminately and casually." 1,2 Still, the passages in the three synoptic gospels records Jesus as rejecting the suggestion that he was all good; i.e. without sin.
i commend you on your research.
i dont have time to reply to it all but this one i know most about.

I'll quote the commentator Geldenhuys as i think he summs it up pretty well (on Luke 18 : 19)

Jesus does not here mean, as many critics have inferred, that He is not entitled to be addressed as "Good Master". He merely asks:"Why callest thou me good?" and points out to the young man that only One is good in an absolute sense, namely, God. By this he wishes to teach the young man that only if he regards Him as the Son of God, who is one with God, may he call Him "good". The young man however, as Jesus knew, had no inkling of His real nature, and thus, as he regarded Him as merely human and not the Son of God, he ought not to address Him as "God Master". The words of the Savior may, therefore, by no means be regarded as a denial of the fact of His sinlessness and divinity. On the contrary, as the whole context shows, Jesus here teaches indeed that He is one with God and thus claims absolute authority over the life of man ("follow Me", verse 22). Thus he who knows Him as the Son of God may address Him as "Good Master", but from one who regards Him merely as human (as the rich young man does) He has no desire for such a superficial and flattering form of address.

J. C. Ryle says (not a quote) that Jesus is rebuking the man for an eagerness to flatter men (as he thought Jesus was)


hope that helps.
#9  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Isouttahere Add Isouttahere to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 143/309
(19-Mar-2004 at 03:40)


Something else I stole that's a good perspective:

Quote:
I have a new theory on the debate as to wether we were made or just happened. Homosexuality, since it can't be explained by unguided evolution alone, suggests that it's a designed behavior.

For the universe as we know it to exist without a designer of some kind, by definition, it must have formed completely through unguided evolution. Any behavior that runs counter to survival and having offspring should theoretically be quickly bred out of nature. Homosexuality does not produce offspring, yet a significant minority of our population continues to gay. How can an Atheist account for this?

Christians will, of course, answer that homosexuality is not by nature but a chosen sinful lifestyle choice. Oh, of course! Obviously, these people are straight like us except they've found a way to redirect their sexual impulses so they can be part of some violently hated outcast group. Putting aside the question of who in their right mind would do such a thing, this view has been largely debunked by recent studies in the human brain as it relates to sexuality.

Others might offer that homosexuality could be sustained by recessive genes. Certainly such things happen in nature but on such a large scale, in all parts of the world, among humans and animals alike?

The only other explaination I can see is that those who feel strongly inclined toward the same gender are that way by design.

Ergo, God.
#10  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Steigerr Add Steigerr to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
(Posted as RavEMasteR)
(User is Banned)
Posts: 1340/2492
(19-Mar-2004 at 04:59)


Jesus could've engaged in sexual stuff. No one ever said sex was sin, coz even Adam & Eve, did it.

Additionally, when Jesus came, alot of laws were changed, which could mean that homosexuality was no longer a sin.

Gah, I'm getting rusty on religious debate.

Religion is the mental disease of the masses.
"Once again, religion is like sniffing gasoline. Both cause permanant brain damage." -- Obsidian
#11  
View Public Profile Find more posts by dothackRAVE Add dothackRAVE to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 20/43
(19-Mar-2004 at 15:18)
He could have, but He wouldn't have done so. Why? Because he was not married to anybody during His life. Wouldn't that count as adultery? And Jesus was against that.

Yeah i run like the river, dance like the summer, joy is in my heart, You have satisfied.
#12  
View Public Profile Find more posts by stee Add stee to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
(Posted as compwizard11235)
Posts: 3/186
(05-Apr-2004 at 02:11)


Quote:
(Originally posted by stee)

He could have, but He wouldn't have done so. Why? Because he was not married to anybody during His life. Wouldn't that count as adultery? And Jesus was against that.
As for adultery, I don't think it applies. The prohibition against adultery in the ten commandments consists of two words, the first of which is "no." Other chapters in the Old Testament define penalties for an unmarried man having sex with a virgin (monetary compensation), and for anyone having sex with a married woman (death to both). The vast difference between these penalties suggests that the stricter prohibition against adultery applies only to married persons, and not to sexual relations between a man and woman who have never been married to anyone.
#13  
View Public Profile Find more posts by lady looney Add lady looney to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 1647/1675
Donated $5.32
(05-Apr-2004 at 13:36)


Quote:
(Originally posted by PatrioticSpirit)
Does it matter?
Jesus taught us how to deal with people! whether it be straight or gay, whether it be Jew or gentile!
It is how we conduct ourselves and what is in our hearts!
How interesting it is you say that and yet you're against gay marriage or gays making families for themselves.

-For those who fight all over the world.. fight for peace, fight for freedom, and fight for their lives..
Will someone please give Bush a BJ already so we can start the Impeachment?
#14  
View Public Profile Visit muirgein's homepage Find more posts by muirgein Add muirgein to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
(Posted as xens)
(User is Banned)
Posts: 280/473
(05-Apr-2004 at 15:12)
Conparing 2 person in similar circunstances, mahomet and jesus:

mahomet- had 14wifes
jesus - had 12 apostols (ALL MEN!)

mahomet- had many kids.
jesus - When Jesus was left alone with a prostitute she only washed his feet...


The evidence points to Jesus being gay!
Remember that for instance in the last supper, there were mostly single men, it's like a gay dinner party!

"The supreme victory is to win without doing battle."- Sun Tzu
"Even if all the experts agreed they might still be wrong!"-so say the experts
"A wise man is impartial but not neutral a fool is neutral but not impartial."-don't know who said it
#15  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Mr Xens Add Mr Xens to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 311/358
(05-Apr-2004 at 23:21)


this thread stoops so low, why do i bother posting

Quote:
Jesus could've engaged in sexual stuff. No one ever said sex was sin, coz even Adam & Eve, did it.
wrong Rave, unless Jesus decided to be pure in every part of his life except sexuality and he went through all the pain and torture for nothing.

the bible (which i know you love for evidence) clearly states many times it is a sin to have sex, hetero or homo, before marriage. c'mon Rave, surely you knew that.

im sarcastic and lazy, and proud of it
join S.P.A.M. today!Kyrina's other slave
if somethings hard to do, then its not worth doing-Homer
#16  
View Public Profile Find more posts by elvenarrow Add elvenarrow to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 89/241
(Post has been warned)
(06-Apr-2004 at 00:31)
content haha

What a nice discussion, of course Jesus was gay, he only gathered boys around him?

Quote:
Lead the world, Win the War, Bush and Cheney in 2004
It should be something like this..
Terrorise the world, bomb all potential terrorists, Bush and whoever cheney is (2004)
#17  
View Public Profile Find more posts by kaozarn Add kaozarn to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
(User is Banned)
Posts: 1182/1319
(08-Apr-2004 at 15:42)


Jesus was gay? AND God told us to kill gays?

This single thread shows the two greatest flaws in the anti-religion argument.

No one cares!!! You got it so wrong, so skimming the surface that it doesn't matter.


Stop trying to discredit his character... stop trying to assassinate his judgment or divinity, STOP USING OT to disprove Jesus and just listen to the pacifying waters that flow from the greatest philosopher of all time.

If you see the light at the end of the tunnel, then you passed the test.

Last edited by Cloud Strife, 08-Apr-2004 at 15:43.
#18  
View Public Profile Visit Cloud Strife's homepage Find more posts by Cloud Strife Add Cloud Strife to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 38/43
(08-Apr-2004 at 19:03)
well said, Cloud... except it doesn't say to kill homosexuals, it is saying that they are worthy of death. [not directly to Cloud] Just because you believe in religion xyz, and it tells you that all stee's are worthy of death, doesn't mean you should go out and kill me, does it? and if your religion isn't a militant one, then perhaps you should resort to some more... peaceful methods. like in Christianity, the gospels basically say love God with all your heart, strength, soul, mind, and love neighbors as yourselves. so then, instead of going to kill people because they are worthy of death, perhaps loving them would be better.

Yeah i run like the river, dance like the summer, joy is in my heart, You have satisfied.
#19  
View Public Profile Find more posts by stee Add stee to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 167/309
(10-Apr-2004 at 07:53)


Quote:
No one cares!!! You got it so wrong, so skimming the surface that it doesn't matter.


Stop trying to discredit his character... stop trying to assassinate his judgment or divinity, STOP USING OT to disprove Jesus and just listen to the pacifying waters that flow from the greatest philosopher of all time.
You obviously care for taking the time to try and flame me and the thread I started.

You're also a homophobic such and such if you think I'm trying to assassinate his judgement or divinity by questioning his sexuality.

Skimming the surface of what? It's a valid question as it shows how little we know about this persons life. We know what happened when he was born, and then a few years before he died. What happened during the other 20 odd years?

What are the two greatest flaws in the 'anti-religion' arguement?

Do you want me to list a few of the flaws or contradictions found in the bible? Ok I will.

Is God Visible?

God is seen. God is invisible and cannot be seen.
Gen.12.7
"And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him."
Gen.17.1
"And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him...."

Or is he?

Jn.1.18
"No man hath seen God at any time."
Jn.6.46
"Not that any man hath seen the Father."

I'll keep going if you really want.
#20  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Steigerr Add Steigerr to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump:


All times are GMT+1. The time now is 05:49.

Powered by vBulletin (modified)
Copyright ©2000-2006, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.