Utopia Temple
Main Forum Page Register an Account for Free! Calendar Frequently Asked Questions about this Board View New Posts Advanced Search Login
  Utopia Temple Forums > General Discussions > Respectable General Discussions > Religious Discussions

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Post New Thread Reply
Author Thread
Posts: 86/241
(06-Apr-2004 at 00:15)
tongue hmm

Only a idiot believes in something that cant exist.

Theres millions of proof that he doesnt exist, only a fool cant se them.

If he should against all odds, I really doubt he would like christians hahahaha Bush is a good example of a christian, hes a complete idiot! hahahaha
#41  
View Public Profile Find more posts by kaozarn Add kaozarn to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 50/109
(06-Apr-2004 at 00:20)
Quote:
1st off, u didn't create this theory. Smth similar was created by Aristotle thousands of years before u did.And it's just a theory - every period of time(no matter how small) we've experimented on can be divided into 2 parts.
I did create this HYPOTHESIS, which I came up with entirely by myself. If some guy way back when came up with a similar idea, hey good for him, but I had no idea that he did.

second
its not a theory. Its a hypothesis.

theory has evidence
hypothesis does not (to the same degree, in the sense that correlation does not always mean causation)



Quote:
Maybe what ur saying is true but untill we find that undevideble frame, it's false.
Maybe it is true, maybe it is false! but to me it seems like a feasible explanation why achilles passes the turtle. Because time is goverened by events, we cannot really research the frame theory, as researching a time frame would require several frames, and therefore be impossible to gauge. Like I said, its a HYPOTHESIS, not a theory.


this hypothesis has as much credibility as God does, really (very little)
#42  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Iron Lung Add Iron Lung to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 51/109
(06-Apr-2004 at 00:34)
Quote:
Only a idiot believes in something that cant exist.
Many brilliant people believe in god!
#43  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Iron Lung Add Iron Lung to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 49/147
(06-Apr-2004 at 00:51)
Re: hmm

Quote:
(Originally posted by kaozarn)

Only a idiot believes in something that cant exist.

Theres millions of proof that he doesnt exist, only a fool cant se them.

If he should against all odds, I really doubt he would like christians hahahaha Bush is a good example of a christian, hes a complete idiot! hahahaha
Judging from what i read, u see God as an old man sitting on a cloud in the sky. I used to think that too..when i was 8. Anyway..unlike u, i grew up.
#44  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Downwithgravity Add Downwithgravity to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 1/6
(06-Apr-2004 at 01:08)
Ok, well if you're going to go the scientific route, then how was the universe created. Yeah yeah big bang molecular mutation, but whatever happened to conservation of matter? What about conservation of energy, and no 100% efficiency? The big bang is scientifically flawed because, a) what possibly could have caused the big bang, aside from good ol' deus ex machina; and b) what could have violated your laws of physics aside from a higher power. The truth is, that the human race is one that needs answers, and the origins question will be one to be forever unanswered because of its inherent recursive nature. I.E, if god created the universe, what created god, and then, what created that, forever and ever. This is why people need faith in something in their lives, because it would drive people crazy not being able too figure out the answer. This is why all of the most brilliant scientists of all time have had utter faith that god did/does exist. Some things you can prove, others you just have to accept.
Can god create an object so large he himself cannot move it?
If you look into it, it was no more than a playful muse by a philosopher. The truth is, thats not what matters. What matters is that god is why things happen that we cannot explain. For me, god is just that. As for prooving the existence or nonexistence of a being specifically engineered by the human mind to not be proven or disproven, its impossible. Humans knew they could feel the presence of a higher power, they just couldnt see, hear, touch, smell, or taste it, therefore God became just that, a higher power that was untouchable, untasteable, unhearable, unseeable, and unsmellable, and most importantly unprovable.
#45  
View Public Profile Find more posts by ezryder645 Add ezryder645 to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 2/6
(06-Apr-2004 at 01:16)
for the rest of you scientists, check your scientific method
when you test a hypothesis, you test against the theory not for it. I.E. you try to prove it wrong. So have you yet proven at all that there is no higher power? no. So the scientifically tested theory stands.
#46  
View Public Profile Find more posts by ezryder645 Add ezryder645 to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 1/8
(06-Apr-2004 at 01:16)
***** FLAME REPELLANT:I am posting on my own beliefs with the King James version of the bible for referance, Thou shalt not flame!! :P ******

Quote:
If god is all powerful, can he make an object he cannot move?
Time for some more questions that cant be answerd, these will have to do with time travel, because its a fun topic(paradoxes)




Ok, we start out you are born, grow up, buy a gun, go back in time, kill your mother before you are born, are you alive or dead? were you ever born at all?? could your mother even of existed her child killed her before her child was born? Answer this logicaly....... good luck


Quote:
If God is all wise all knowing, and all whatever, how come he threatens to smite those who do not believe in him? Is such a wise person REALLY THAT INSECURE? I guess so.
Please, go in to more depth on this, and i may be able to give you a good answer.

i'll go in too more depth later when i have time.

Also, not much has been posted about in here for miracles, or just unexplainable phenomon for people being perfectly healed overnight, I am using a personal friend for this, She had a diesase that Degenerated her nerves untill she would eventualy die, no known cure, no known treatment, Nothing, doctors told her just make her last years comfertable, and gave her around 6 months untill she would be immobile, they were right, in around 6 months she was immobile, and had to have a wheel chair, by 10 months needed help being fed, overnight, healed all her cells regenerated overnight, is this scientificaly possible? if so how?

Last edited by Twinkie, 06-Apr-2004 at 01:23.
#47  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Twinkie Add Twinkie to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 201/7006
(06-Apr-2004 at 03:01)


Quote:
The difference is that science progresses. Less than a century we didn't know what DNA was, now we've sequenced it for several species. We may not have all the pieces, but gradually we can explain more and more of how life works and evolves. You complain that we can't explain the first steps on how life appeared,
I am not complaining about anything, I am making the point that Helveties 'lets get logical' argument is based on unproven theories.


Quote:
not too long ago you'd have been complaining that we couldn't understand how organic substances could appear from inorganic matter, and in the future when someone has been able to create life in the laboratory you'll be complaining that we can't prove that's exactly how it happened on Earth.
Intersting speculation. Do you have anything to base your assumptions about my opinions on, or can I dismiss it as half a post of meaningless BS?


Quote:
Actually, the chances are quite big.

All over the world amino acids were bumping into eachother simultaneously and the right conditions for them sticking to eachother and starting to replicate were all over the place.
The chances are extrememly small, that is why it has not been replicated in a laboratory. You would need to get 15 amino acids combine with each other just to make 1 protein, and that is a long way from creating life.



Quote:
Can god create an object he cannot move?
by the laws of logic, NO
ergo, he is not all powerful
because he is not all powerful, he does not posess all qualities of a supreme being
ergo, the most supreme of qualities, existence, does not apply to God
An imovable object and an irresisitable force are logically exclusive, they cannot exist in the same place at the same time. It is a meaningless argument.
#48  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Voice of Reason Add Voice of Reason to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 40/135
(06-Apr-2004 at 03:03)


Quote:
(Originally posted by Downwithgravity)

And to those of u who think everything around us is a result of "playing dice", remember what history taught us: every single theory we've created with insufficient data was, sooner or later, regarded as ridiculous.
This is true. My original post is not meant to say that everything in the world is determined by probability, I am certainly of the opinion that free will does matter.

However, probability is proven to govern the way that the vast number of natural processes work. Applying probability to history is specious at best because history is not a natural process, it is the record of Mankind. It is, however, as I said before very applicable to evolution and the other studies of natural science. History is not science.
#49  
View Public Profile Find more posts by MeowMix2 Add MeowMix2 to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 754/1408
Donated $32.64
(06-Apr-2004 at 03:42)


Quote:
(Originally posted by Twinkie)

***** FLAME REPELLANT:I am posting on my own beliefs with the King James version of the bible for referance, Thou shalt not flame!! :P ******
I saw nothing from the bible in your post, you just rambled on. No need for a disclaimer around here, we aren't assholes, and if we were, a disclaimer isn't gonna stop us.



Just because something isn't currently explained doesn't mean it can't be. Ask a person a few thousand years ago what the sun was, and how earthquakes came about, and they would say a god did those things (or are those things). The definition of what god does has been shrinking since then. What makes you believe that it will stop somewhere?

After I'm dead I'd rather have people ask why I have no monument than why I have one

The only reason we die, is because we accept it as an inevitability
#50  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Phased Add Phased to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 370/567
(06-Apr-2004 at 03:48)


On the hypothesis that the reason the universe is so finely tuned for our existence is solely an artifact of chance:
---

Take a very simple lottery: the participants A, B, C, D, and E, each of which picks one unique number from 1 to 10,000. The odd of someone winning are, of course, 5/10,000. But suppose it is announced that someone has won the lottery. What are the odds of someone winning, given that someone has won? Well, by the very expression of the statement, the probability is 1. Substitute any number for 10,000, and no matter what it is the second result will hold: that is, given that someone won it is meaningless to discuss what the probability of someone winning really was. (I can talk about MY probability of winning given someone won, but I know for certain that SOMEONE won.)

Here's the upshot: No matter how ridiculous the odds against our universe forming the way it did, or in another way conducive to life, the fact is that it did. Therefore you cannot argue against the idea that everything is created by chance solely by arguing the odds against such a thing happening. And the second law of thermodynamics only argues a TENDENCY; at a local frame such as the Earth, the amount of energy consolidated by the development of life pales in comparison to the dispersal of energy from countless stars.

There is a tragic flaw in our precious Constitution, and I donít know what can be done to fix it. This is it: Only nut cases want to be president.
-- Kurt Vonnegut
#51  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Incoherent Add Incoherent to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 55/109
(06-Apr-2004 at 03:50)
Quote:
Ok, we start out you are born, grow up, buy a gun, go back in time, kill your mother before you are born, are you alive or dead? were you ever born at all?? could your mother even of existed her child killed her before her child was born? Answer this logicaly....... good luck
"timetravel" is impossible because it breaks the laws of conservation of mass. The above situation cannot happen, therefore there is nothing to be answered. Its interesting to think about, but fruitless as an argument


also, somewhere in this thread someone said something about conservation of energy. Energy can be created, it just takes a whole whackload of energy. Look at the sun. It creates internal energy through nuclear fission (I am no expert on this).
#52  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Iron Lung Add Iron Lung to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 202/7006
(06-Apr-2004 at 04:10)


Quote:
Take a very simple lottery: the participants A, B, C, D, and E, each of which picks one unique number from 1 to 10,000. The odd of someone winning are, of course, 5/10,000. But suppose it is announced that someone has won the lottery. What are the odds of someone winning, given that someone has won? Well, by the very expression of the statement, the probability is 1. Substitute any number for 10,000, and no matter what it is the second result will hold: that is, given that someone won it is meaningless to discuss what the probability of someone winning really was. (I can talk about MY probability of winning given someone won, but I know for certain that SOMEONE won.)

Here's the upshot: No matter how ridiculous the odds against our universe forming the way it did, or in another way conducive to life, the fact is that it did. Therefore you cannot argue against the idea that everything is created by chance solely by arguing the odds against such a thing happening.
That analogy would only hold if there was 10,0000 ways for life to exist. If there is only one way for life to form (us, carbon based) then it would be more acurate to talk about YOUR chance of winning the lottery.
#53  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Voice of Reason Add Voice of Reason to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 4/8
(06-Apr-2004 at 05:08)
Proff that god exists? Well I don't have a lot of time right now so I will just give you one examples though I have many. "Evolution" is wrong and heres why. Lets look at the giraffe for one example. According to evolutionists they were small at first and eventully grew long necks to eat leaves at the top of trees. Have you ever wondered why when a giraffe raises his neck he doesn't pass out or when he bends over his head doesn't explode? Well the answer is that he has valve like organ in his neck that raises blood pressure when he raises his neck and when he bends over it slows the blood pressure. Now why am I saying this you might ask, well its because obviously when it was a small animal it would have no use for such a valve so the giraffe had to "evolve" such an organ or it could have never have survived with such a neck. Now I can understand how you could say an animal with a mutation of say a bigger hand might survive better in the wild to met its needs and thereby survive longer to reproduce and so on and so on untill only the ones with big hands are the ones surviveing in the wild. But to go so far as to say an animal had some extra cells that changed and changed till it was complexed enough to form a valve device is just plain crazy. That would be saying either the cells changed themselves to meet the need of the environment which is false since cells aren't "smart" enough or you or saying that animals can change their cells almost at will, which would be really cool( I think I want my great great great great great great grandson to have a 3rd arm so I better get started now) This is clearly an example of divine design, which is just one of the many examples that there is a divine being out their who designed everthing with a purpose. If anyone would like my sources just ask. I am way to tired to find them and link you to all them but if you ask I will. Whew this is the longest post I have ever made so there is bound to be all kinds of spelling and grammerical errors in their.
#54  
View Public Profile Find more posts by EgoBuster359 Add EgoBuster359 to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
(Posted as Black Fighter)
Posts: 2632/4986
(06-Apr-2004 at 05:25)


Quote:
That analogy would only hold if there was 10,0000 ways for life to exist. If there is only one way for life to form (us, carbon based) then it would be more acurate to talk about YOUR chance of winning the lottery.
There are many ways to form carbon based life forms...

EgoBuster...try researching something before you just copy the flawed reasoning from creationists' books...

http://www.talkorigin.org/
http://www.talkdesign.org/
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

Last edited by Ki Intensity, 06-Apr-2004 at 05:31.
#55  
View Public Profile Visit Apeiron's homepage Find more posts by Apeiron Add Apeiron to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 5/8
(06-Apr-2004 at 05:33)
Nuclear fission is when a particle is shot at an atom of say uranium and knocks away a particle or two which which is the release of energy. I thought is was the fact that matter can't be created but I may be wrong on this one. Either way there is nothing being created during nuclear fission. Matter can not be created or destroyed, only changed from one form to another.
#56  
View Public Profile Find more posts by EgoBuster359 Add EgoBuster359 to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 59/170
(06-Apr-2004 at 05:34)
Quote:
If god is all powerful, can he make an object he cannot move?
Why move the object when you can move the Universe around it? It's all about prespective. If this said object was viewed from another point...the object itself would appear to be moving, but when in reality it was the rest of the universe...but as far as the universe is concerned it is the object moving.

And obviously God, Gods, Goddesses, and other things exist...since you are arguing about them. So in one form or another they exist...and are real. Ideas are just as real as anything else in this world.

And we all can agree that all it takes is one idea to change the world. So if an idea can change the world...does that make the idea any more existant, or less?

So like I said...since you are talking about some form of Deity, it does exist in some form even if it's only in your own mind.
#57  
View Public Profile Find more posts by bleulung Add bleulung to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 6/8
(06-Apr-2004 at 05:42)
Quote:
(Originally posted by Black Fighter)

There are many ways to form carbon based life forms...

EgoBuster...try researching something before you just copy the flawed reasoning from creationists' books...

http://www.talkorigin.org/
http://www.talkdesign.org/
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/
Can you plz link to the parts where it discusses the issue in question and or quote the mentioned text. I would also like to know your point of view on the matter rather then just assuming you belive everything on these website.
#58  
View Public Profile Find more posts by EgoBuster359 Add EgoBuster359 to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
(Posted as Brizahd)
Posts: 302/468
(06-Apr-2004 at 05:52)


When I try to imagine something that is supreme, omnipotent, and has existed from the alpha to the omega I think it's beyond my powers of intellect to imagine the scope of it. Not just the God I worship but the concept of any god.

I would think to compare it, it would be much like a 5 yr old arguing with a parent. The 5 yr old's world is very small and tunnel visioned. The rest of the world beyond it's daily life does not exist. The 5 yr old has only the basest of needs, and if left to it's own devices would not be able to survive. Thus the parent enforces rules for the 5yr old to follow, to which the 5yr old isn't always happy about. The 5 yr cannot truly argue with the parent since it does not have full comprehension of the world, the big picture. None of us have the intellect to debate with a god, or theorize.

Anyway in response to the "If God is all powerful can he.."
Not that I claim to understand God and all his abilities, but I would think God could create a rock so big he couldn't move it. But the fact he could not move it does not equate to him not being all powerful because he could just as easily as he created it destroy it and thus not have to worry about moving it. So I guess you should add an addendum to your question, and ask if god can create a rock that he cannot move, and also not destroy.

Last edited by Brizahd, 06-Apr-2004 at 05:55.
#59  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Maelstraum Add Maelstraum to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 203/7006
(06-Apr-2004 at 08:03)


Quote:
There are many ways to form carbon based life forms...
The only carbon based life we know of is the stuff living on this planet, we have have never seen or heard of any other form so that is just speculation.

Imagine a golfer whacking his ball down the fairway, there is a very high probability that his ball will land on some grass. But go an paint a blade of grass white, and what are the chances his ball will land on that? Very remote!
The same argument can be applied to life occuring by chance. If carbon based life like us is the only way for it to happen, then the odds of it occuring by chance are vanishingly remote - like hitting the painted grass on a golf course - but if it can occur in millions of forms then it would be a suprise if life didn't happen by chance.


Quote:
This is clearly an example of divine design, which is just one of the many examples that there is a divine being out their who designed everthing with a purpose. If anyone would like my sources just ask.
While I share your views on Darwin, it is a big step from 'Darwin is wrong' to 'that proves God did it'.
#60  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Voice of Reason Add Voice of Reason to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump:


All times are GMT+1. The time now is 23:33.

Powered by vBulletin (modified)
Copyright ©2000-2006, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.