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Posts: 493
(22-Dec-2007 at 00:46)


Nile party behind anti-Muslim school rally
Wendy Frew Urban Affairs Editor
December 22, 2007

THE Christian Democratic Party is behind a mysterious group called the Committee for Public Affairs Education that organised a large meeting this week to protest against a proposed 1200-student Muslim school in Camden.

In the guise of a local residents' action group, the CDP organised the meeting, which has been accused of inflaming anti-Muslim feeling.

The CDP leader, the Reverend Fred Nile, and Robert Balzola, a Christian lawyer and lobbyist, were key speakers on the night.

Police had to calm about 100 people outside Camden Civic Centre who could not get into the packed hall, some of whom issued threats against people of Muslim heritage.

Mr Nile told the crowd he opposed the school because Islam opposed Christianity.

Mr Nile and one of the meeting organisers, Colin Broadbridge, a CDP member who lives in Campbelltown, denied that the party had staged the meeting.

But the state MP Charlie Lynn, who was also invited to speak, said he had been approached two weeks ago by the CDP and asked to attend.

Mr Lynn said objections to the school proposed by the Quranic Society should be made on planning grounds and because there was no local need for such a school.

He said Max Cracknell, a CDP Camden branch member, had been the main meeting organiser.

"They approached me about two weeks ago in Parliament but my advice was not to hold it but to wait for council's deliberation," he said.

Mr Cracknell referred the Herald to Mr Nile. Mr Nile said his party had not organised the meeting and referred the Herald to Mr Broadbridge.

"I was just invited to that meeting," Mr Nile said. "It was not a Christian Democrat meeting."

Mr Broadbridge also denied that Wednesday's event had been organised by the Christian Democrats, although he acknowledged that he was a member of the party.

"We are a loose coalition of people; we are people who are prepared to go one step further rather than just carp about something. There is no human face to the Quranic Society The people of Camden want to know who is coming in to their town."

The Quranic Society was not invited to speak at the meeting.

Mr Broadbridge said the society had been insensitive to propose such a big school in a rural setting, a long way from any Muslim community.

Mr Balzola, who is a member of the lay Catholic organisation the NSW Knights of the Southern Cross, and a member of a group called the Religious Freedom Institute, which lobbies for Christian rights, said his religious affiliations had nothing to do with his attendance at the meeting. "I was the MC at the meeting. I was not acting on behalf of any other organisation," said Mr Balzola, who lives in the inner-western suburb of Croydon. "I was there in a private capacity as an environmental lawyer."

A spokesman for the Quranic Society, Jeremy Bingham, said the society was made up of people who were Australian citizens and Muslims who wanted to build a school for their children that would follow the NSW curriculum, and that would be open to non-Muslim children.

"This is their only school. and they are stretched to raise money to do this," Mr Bingham said.

"I think Fred is a little out of date. I don't think he realises the Crusades were over a long time ago. He was talking nonsense about Muslims being anti-Christian that is absurd. I am very disappointed in Nile."

This story was found at: http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2007/...175341971.html

What do you guys think, about the development of this Islamic school? I would like to hear your thoughts, and want a vigorous debate, particularly from Australians and Muslims.

However, anyone is welcome to contribute, since opposition to development of Islamic schools in countries which do not have a majority Muslim population, has become a contentious issue globally, as I read in one edition of The Economist.

Never give in, never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. - Sir Winston Churchill, Speech, 1941, Harrow School

Last edited by Konc, 26-Dec-2007 at 13:51.
Edit reason: edit button - find it, use it, love it.
#1  
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(Posted as Dr U)
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(22-Dec-2007 at 02:56)


I'm against islamic schools, I'm against religious schools in general. However, as long as other religious schools are allowed, islamic schools should also be allowed.
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(22-Dec-2007 at 05:54)


Re: Rally against d'ment of Islamic school in Camden, NSW, Australia

Originally Posted by Dr U: View Post
I'm against islamic schools, I'm against religious schools in general. However, as long as other religious schools are allowed, islamic schools should also be allowed.
As we live in a democracy, I respect other people's rights to have such viewpoints. However, all people have the right to exercise their adherence to a religion and lack thereof.

The people in the above article are misguided and foolish in opposing the development of this Islamic school.

Never give in, never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. - Sir Winston Churchill, Speech, 1941, Harrow School
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(22-Dec-2007 at 08:38)
Re: Rally against d'ment of Islamic school in Camden, NSW, Australia

Originally Posted by hussein: View Post
As we live in a democracy, I respect other people's rights to have such viewpoints. However, all people have the right to exercise their adherence to a religion and lack thereof.
The controversy is to what extent you should be allowed to indoctrinate your children in your own faith, or if school should be a place where children can get a more objective education.
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(22-Dec-2007 at 08:42)


Can't really say. There are too many details missing to be able to pass a real judgment but i am always wary about religous schools. I think they should be banned since they don't really seem right to me. Religous universities yes but i don't feel comfortable with forcing religion on kids .

The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common; they don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit the views
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(Posted as Konctre19)
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(22-Dec-2007 at 09:06)


i am against religious schools in general

i am also more against islamic schools in australia because australia is not a muslim country, it is predominantly christian

islam is a religion from abroad. it is not part of the australian culture, and while it of COURSE should not be banned - anyone has the right to worship whoever, it is a basic right - but it should not be indoctrinated into any official part of australia. ever

christianity shouldnt either, but its not as big a deal, since christianity is much more part of our culture

Tax collectors are a valid military target - chobham
#6  
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(22-Dec-2007 at 11:19)


Re: Rally against d'ment of Islamic school in Camden, NSW, Australia

Originally Posted by Konctre19: View Post
i am against religious schools in general

i am also more against islamic schools in australia because australia is not a muslim country, it is predominantly christian

islam is a religion from abroad. it is not part of the australian culture, and while it of COURSE should not be banned - anyone has the right to worship whoever, it is a basic right - but it should not be indoctrinated into any official part of australia. ever

christianity shouldnt either, but its not as big a deal, since christianity is much more part of our culture
Christianity wasnt a part of Australia either before its colonialisation. There are some bigger trends you either accept them or you stop them forcefully.

Bernel, there was never "objective" education. The european education system itself as far as i know was always also a tool to socialise people into a certain way of thought. Schools at the beginning of the industrialisation werent common nowadays schools but more like strict organised reformatories where people were disciplined into being "good" industrial workers, i.e. not leave work for weeks, be on time,... and nowadays you still have this subtility Only that you are being taught to be "flexible" in a world of globalisation at all costs.

What im saying is you cannot just blame religion of indoctrination, rather the educational system itself is an agent of socialisation. There you cannot blame muslims to want their children to be educated in islamic thought, to know there is a way of thought outside of the western capitalistic world.

[Holy Qur'an (Surah Al-Furqan; the Criterion]
Blessed is He who sent down the criterion to His servant, that it may be an admonition to all creatures (25:1)
But the misbelievers say: "Naught is this but a lie which he has forged [...] (25:4)
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(Posted as Konctre19)
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(22-Dec-2007 at 11:38)


Quote:
Christianity wasnt a part of Australia either before its colonialisation.
true, but does that matter now??

Tax collectors are a valid military target - chobham
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(22-Dec-2007 at 11:46)
Re: Rally against d'ment of Islamic school in Camden, NSW, Australia

Originally Posted by Konctre19: View Post
i am also more against islamic schools in australia because australia is not a muslim country, it is predominantly christian
This suggests Islamic schools are less dangerous than Christian ones. Kids going to Christian schools will only meet one world view, while those going to Islamic schools will at least be exposed to two, one at school (and presumably at home) and another in the rest of society.
Quote:
islam is a religion from abroad. it is not part of the australian culture,
And where do you think Christianity comes from? Dreamtime is the original Australian "religion".

Armitage, I never said religious schools were the only form of indoctrination possible. Schools should teach kids critical thinking by exposing them to many different ways of thinking about the world. A strictly capitalist school is no better than a religious one.
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(Posted as Konctre19)
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(22-Dec-2007 at 12:09)


Quote:
This suggests Islamic schools are less dangerous than Christian ones. Kids going to Christian schools will only meet one world view, while those going to Islamic schools will at least be exposed to two, one at school (and presumably at home) and another in the rest of society.
i didnt say they were dangerous

its just that it is putting a non-australian cultural thingy, and putting it in an official australian institution

Quote:
And where do you think Christianity comes from? Dreamtime is the original Australian "religion".
yep

and now christianity is the dominant religion, and the religion that best aligns with australian culture

christianity may be foreign, but we are the foreign people who brought it here

Tax collectors are a valid military target - chobham
#10  
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(Posted as Dr U)
Posts: 204/389
(22-Dec-2007 at 13:46)


Re: Rally against d'ment of Islamic school in Camden, NSW, Australia

Originally Posted by hussein: View Post
As we live in a democracy, I respect other people's rights to have such viewpoints. However, all people have the right to exercise their adherence to a religion and lack thereof.
Sure, everybody has that right.. I'm all for schools teaching their students about all religions, but not just one. When it comes to religion and life views, there is not one accepted 'truth', at least in most 'free' countries. This is why I feel schools should provide information about all religions, but should not teach any as being true.. leave it up to the students to decide. Especially in a country like mine, where schools are at least partially funded by the government.
Originally Posted by Armitage: View Post
There you cannot blame muslims to want their children to be educated in islamic thought, to know there is a way of thought outside of the western capitalistic world.
That's a bit hypocrite isn't it. First they migrate to the west to take financial advantage of our capitalistic society, yet they criticise that same capitalistic society.
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(22-Dec-2007 at 14:10)


Re: Rally against d'ment of Islamic school in Camden, NSW, Australia

Originally Posted by Armitage: View Post
What im saying is you cannot just blame religion of indoctrination, rather the educational system itself is an agent of socialisation. There you cannot blame muslims to want their children to be educated in islamic thought, to know there is a way of thought outside of the western capitalistic world.
You're absolutely right about the first part, education is always about socialization, or emphasizing its negative side; indoctrination. From the point of view of a muslim, it indeed makes complete sense to want your children to be educated in Islamic thought. I find myself agreeing with Bernel however, education should primarily teach critical thought, and I'd add mutual understanding. That means having children be exposed to different worldviews (and certainly not just one 'singular western capitalistic way of thought'), and allowing them to understand the different rationalities underlying them.

Islamic, Christian, or any other religious education by definition runs contrary to that principle, as it takes as its starting point what should only be the end point of the education phase: children, having been educated about the various religions, deciding what tradition of thought, if any, fits their feelings. If i'm not mistaken it was the prophet Muhammed (pbuh) himself that said people should come to Islam out of their own decision, not through force or indoctrination. Let us teach our children about all religions and philosophical systems then, and let the truth about them be revealed through that process, not be presupposed up front.

Your brain is unique in the history of the universe. Use it wisely.
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(22-Dec-2007 at 14:54)


Bernel i think i can agree with you on what should be the aim of educational institutions. At first it should teach methods of of analysis, information finding, questioning and processing. This is the most important part because i believe children are very well able to determine what is good for them and what not. This is the part where the schools shouldnt interfere because if you tell kids what is good and not then you are indoctrinating them. If you also teach them to deal with critical thinking and self-reflection, they should be able to handle any information and deal with the world problems in the best manner. But before that there are some basis requirements like reading, speaking, calculation which is needed in order to further learn anything else.

The basics are where we differ in opinion. In Germany the third generation childrens of immigrants speak less good german than their (Grand-)fathers. This is a huge problem there. My opinion is that its because while the 1-2 generations had a established basis of thoughts there were able to handle the change of society etc. better than those 3. generation kids are. They are neither totally accepted in the society nor have they clear identity of their own.

Researchs are suggesting to promote the mother language in the schools so they can deal with german easier when they have one problem less to handle. It should be the task of parents or the school to give their children something they can identify themselves with. Identity is essential if you live in a foreign country. If an islamic school helps teaching their pupils a tolerant view of islam then its only to the benefit for the society and its also going to be better for the quality of education these pupils will be able to acquire.

Pluralism is extremely important. A islamic tradition says something like that Islam would come to an end when people forget about the pre-islamic time (i.e. the non-islamic living). How can you undstand yourself if you dont have a mirror that shows you what you actually are. Islam deals alot in its scripture with the different religious systems (People of the Book, Polytheism, Atheism,...) and shows the differences in its discours (i.e. like the status of Jesus (as) contrary to what the 'people of the Book' (christians, Jews) believe). Im not sure however if christianity has such aspects in its religion but Islam definitly has this.

Originally Posted by Dusk Illz:
If i'm not mistaken it was the prophet Muhammed (pbuh) himself that said people should come to Islam out of their own decision, not through force or indoctrination.
Yes, that is true. Its called 'dawa' and its my belief that one cannot force anyone to become muslim but by his own will.

peace

[Holy Qur'an (Surah Al-Furqan; the Criterion]
Blessed is He who sent down the criterion to His servant, that it may be an admonition to all creatures (25:1)
But the misbelievers say: "Naught is this but a lie which he has forged [...] (25:4)
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(22-Dec-2007 at 15:55)


Re: Rally against d'ment of Islamic school in Camden, NSW, Australia

Originally Posted by DHoffryn: View Post
Can't really say. There are too many details missing to be able to pass a real judgment but i am always wary about religous schools. I think they should be banned since they don't really seem right to me. Religous universities yes but i don't feel comfortable with forcing religion on kids .
The problem is that in public schools, children will often not be able to follow their religious rules or it will be hard to do so. For example, praying at the right times will be very hard in public schools. Also consider that in public schools, people do not get much information about religion besides the obvious general stuff, while certain religions might require more education. This can be a good thing for western society as well. (For example, religious violence is often commited by people who had little professional religious education, while the people in that religion with authority usually say that God does not allow that kind of violence. Religious education will help here.) This kind of education is only possible at religious schools.

Of course the indoctrination part and the lack of pluralism can be a problem but it doesn't have to be. There's no reason as to why the government can't enforce a certain amount of material that needs to be thought to everyone. Strict regulation and observation can prevent a lot of the problems.

The 'we live in a christian culture' argument really doesn't work imo. Culture is alive and always changing. When society changes it is important that the culture is capable of adapting. If not, the result will always be that minority groups are opressed and treated as unequals. Do you think muslims will be very eager to adapt to a society that tells them that they are merely tolerated and that Christians will always have more rights? Spectre, you live in a society that has accepted liberal pluralism and the human rights, which state that all human beings are equal and may not be discriminated on the basis of religion, race or culture. Allowing Christian schools and banning Muslim ones would be a huge violation of those rights. If we as western 'enlighted' peoples are not willing to live up to our own standards, how could we ever critisise other cultures?

Modern world I'm not pleased to meet you

You just bring me down
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(22-Dec-2007 at 19:00)


Quote:
Of course the indoctrination part and the lack of pluralism can be a problem but it doesn't have to be. There's no reason as to why the government can't enforce a certain amount of material that needs to be thought to everyone. Strict regulation and observation can prevent a lot of the problems.
Seems a lot simple for the schools to simply have a class dedicated to world religion or for the churches,mosuqes and whatever to provide their own free courses.
Religous schools just seems like a very very bad idea to me. A few hundred years ago they might have been useful but not today. Kids should not by bombarded by religous propaganda in school.

The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common; they don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit the views
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(22-Dec-2007 at 20:53)


Originally Posted by Bernel: View Post
The controversy is to what extent you should be allowed to indoctrinate your children in your own faith, or if school should be a place where children can get a more objective education.
All schools in New South Wales that are not under government purview i.e. independent or Catholic, must be inspected every six years. The school will still abide by the New South Wales curriculum, and it is open to non-Muslims, so I do not think that residents of Camden should have a problem with it.

The Australian Constitution guarantees the right to freedom of religion, but this cannot be achieved if religious adherents are hamstrung.

Originally Posted by DHoffryn: View Post
Can't really say. There are too many details missing to be able to pass a real judgment but i am always wary about religous schools. I think they should be banned since they don't really seem right to me. Religous universities yes but i don't feel comfortable with forcing religion on kids .
No one is forcing religion on kids. The Islamic community wants this school, so that their children have a thorough grounding in the Islamic religion. Only the ignorant, misguided, moronic bigots of the non-Islamic community are opposing the development.

Never give in, never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. - Sir Winston Churchill, Speech, 1941, Harrow School

Last edited by Konc, 23-Dec-2007 at 17:19.
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#16  
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(22-Dec-2007 at 21:09)


Originally Posted by Konctre19: View Post
i am against religious schools in general

i am also more against islamic schools in australia because australia is not a muslim country, it is predominantly christian

islam is a religion from abroad. it is not part of the australian culture, and while it of COURSE should not be banned - anyone has the right to worship whoever, it is a basic right - but it should not be indoctrinated into any official part of australia. ever

christianity shouldnt either, but its not as big a deal, since christianity is much more part of our culture
Look at this list of the religious affiliations of independent schools, and tell me that it is not injust opposing the development of this Islamic school.

89% of all independent schools in Australia have a religious affiliation.

Affiliation: Anglican
Schools: 152
Students: 128, 109
% of Students: 25.6

Affiliation: Nondenominational
Schools: 179
Students: 64, 941
% of Students: 13.0

Affiliation: Roman Catholic
Schools: 71
Students: 49, 997
% of Students: 10.0

Affiliation: Uniting Church in Australia
Schools: 43
Students: 46, 679
% of Students: 9.3

Affiliation: Christian Schools
Schools: 125
Students: 43, 841
% of Students: 8.8

Affiliation: Lutheran
Schools: 83
Students: 32, 133
% of Students: 6.4

Affiliation: Interdenominational
Schools: 27
Students: 17, 779
% of Students: 3.5

Affiliation: Baptist
Schools: 43
Students: 16, 269
% of Students: 3.2

Affiliation: Islamic
Schools: 30
Students: 15, 874
% of Students: 3.2

Affiliation: Seventh Day Adventist
Schools: 56
Students: 10, 110
% of Students: 2.0

Affiliation: Presbyterian
Schools: 14
Students: 9, 572
% of Students: 1.9

Affiliation: Jewish
Schools: 19
Students: 9, 038
% of Students: 1.8

Affiliation: Steiner
Schools: 44
Students: 7, 215
% of Students: 1.4

Affiliation: Pentecostal
Schools: 19
Students: 6, 746
% of Students: 1.3

Affiliation: Assemblies of God
Schools: 16
Students: 6, 370
% of Students: 1.3

Affiliation: Brethren
Schools: 10
Students: 4, 736
% of Students: 0.9

Affiliation: Greek Orthodox
Schools: 8
Students: 4, 112
% of Students: 0.8

Affiliation: Montessori
Schools: 36
Students: 3, 593
% of Students: 0.7

Affiliation: Other Catholic
Schools: 7
Students: 3, 421
% of Students: 0.7

Affiliation: Other Orthodox
Schools: 6
Students: 1, 970
% of Students: 0.4

Affiliation: Society of Friends (Quaker)
Schools: 1
Students: 1, 219
% of Students: 0.2

Affiliation: Churches of Christ
Schools: 2
Students: 770
% of Students: 0.2

Affiliation: Ananda Marga
Schools: 2
Students: 219
% of Students: 0.0

Affiliation: Hare Krishna
Schools: 1
Students: 48
% of Students: 0.0

Affiliation: Other religious affiliation
Schools: 6
Students: 2, 032
% of Students: 0.4

Affiliation: Other*
Schools: 85
Students: 14, 231
% of Students: 2.8

Originally Posted by Konctre19: View Post
i am against religious schools in general

i am also more against islamic schools in australia because australia is not a muslim country, it is predominantly christian

islam is a religion from abroad. it is not part of the australian culture, and while it of COURSE should not be banned - anyone has the right to worship whoever, it is a basic right - but it should not be indoctrinated into any official part of australia. ever

christianity shouldnt either, but its not as big a deal, since christianity is much more part of our culture
Virtually every sect, denomination, religion that is practised for is catered for in the Australian independent education system, YET people are opposing the d'ment of this Islamic school. Why don't we just destroy the Hare Krishna, Ananda Marga, Jewish and every other minority Christian denomination schools and see how people react to that development?

Never give in, never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. - Sir Winston Churchill, Speech, 1941, Harrow School

Last edited by Konc, 23-Dec-2007 at 17:19.
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#17  
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(Post has been warned)
(22-Dec-2007 at 21:25)


Originally Posted by Konctre19: View Post
true, but does that matter now??
Yes, because you are suggesting that as Islam is not the native religion of Australia, Islamic schools should not be built. This is ridiculous, not least because Christianity is not even the original religion of Australia; the Dreamtime of the Aboriginals is. Moreover, most Australians nowadays are not even practising Christians.

Muslim Australians are as much Australian as any other Australians of religious adherences. Just look at East West 101 (8:30 p.m., Thursday, SBS). The cop is one of the most fervent Australians you'll ever meet, and is also a pious Muslim.

Originally Posted by DHoffryn: View Post
Seems a lot simple for the schools to simply have a class dedicated to world religion or for the churches,mosuqes and whatever to provide their own free courses.
Religous schools just seems like a very very bad idea to me. A few hundred years ago they might have been useful but not today. Kids should not by bombarded by religous propaganda in school.
They will not be bombarded by religious propaganda in schools:

1. You don't know what the religious curriculum entails
2. The school will have to be accredited and inspected every 6 years, just like my school (the co-educational, independent, Anglican affiliated Newcastle Grammar School)
3. Non-Muslims are welcome to attend
4. It will have to abide by the New South Wales curriculum

Originally Posted by Konctre19: View Post
i didnt say they were dangerous

its just that it is putting a non-australian cultural thingy, and putting it in an official australian institution



yep

and now christianity is the dominant religion, and the religion that best aligns with australian culture

christianity may be foreign, but we are the foreign people who brought it here
Oh yeah, what about the fact then that most people in Australia who put down Christianity as their religion do not even attend church every Sunday.

Moreover, what about the Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Jews, agnostics, atheists, whatever, who are also Australian citizens? Are they not as much or more Australian as Christians?

Originally Posted by Bernel: View Post
The controversy is to what extent you should be allowed to indoctrinate your children in your own faith, or if school should be a place where children can get a more objective education.
The education proposed will NOT be lacking in objectivity:
1. It will have to be inspected by assessors from the Department of Education every six years (as my Anglican affiliated, co-educational, independent school Newcastle Grammar) was recently, otherwise it will not gain a licence to continue
2. It will accept non-Muslim students
3. It will abide by the NSW curriculum

Originally Posted by Dr U: View Post
Sure, everybody has that right.. I'm all for schools teaching their students about all religions, but not just one. When it comes to religion and life views, there is not one accepted 'truth', at least in most 'free' countries. This is why I feel schools should provide information about all religions, but should not teach any as being true.. leave it up to the students to decide. Especially in a country like mine, where schools are at least partially funded by the government.

That's a bit hypocrite isn't it. First they migrate to the west to take financial advantage of our capitalistic society, yet they criticise that same capitalistic society.
Islam is not acrimonious to capitalism. Indeed, Prophet Muhammad (May peace be upon him) and his wife Khadija were both businesspeople; this suggestion that the school will be lampooning capitalism to its students is a ridiculous notion.

Originally Posted by Dusk Illz: View Post
You're absolutely right about the first part, education is always about socialization, or emphasizing its negative side; indoctrination. From the point of view of a muslim, it indeed makes complete sense to want your children to be educated in Islamic thought. I find myself agreeing with Bernel however, education should primarily teach critical thought, and I'd add mutual understanding. That means having children be exposed to different worldviews (and certainly not just one 'singular western capitalistic way of thought'), and allowing them to understand the different rationalities underlying them.

Islamic, Christian, or any other religious education by definition runs contrary to that principle, as it takes as its starting point what should only be the end point of the education phase: children, having been educated about the various religions, deciding what tradition of thought, if any, fits their feelings. If i'm not mistaken it was the prophet Muhammed (pbuh) himself that said people should come to Islam out of their own decision, not through force or indoctrination. Let us teach our children about all religions and philosophical systems then, and let the truth about them be revealed through that process, not be presupposed up front.
If the school abides by the NSW curriculum, the school will HAVE
to learn about different religions. Indeed, the HSC Studies of Religion course includes studies of Islam, Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity, agnosticism, atheism and tribal religions.

So, I do not think that there is any danger that these potential students will only be educated in one thought process, and as such be "indoctrinated" into one theological line of thought, ignoring others.

If the majority of Muslim Australians are born and bred in Australia, how can it be suggested that Islam is a "foreign" religion? Where else are they going to go? Saudi Arabia? Iran? Turkey?

Never give in, never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. - Sir Winston Churchill, Speech, 1941, Harrow School

Last edited by Konc, 23-Dec-2007 at 17:20.
Edit reason: there is an edit button, please use it - to this point you had made 10+ consecutive posts
#18  
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Posts: 105/493
(22-Dec-2007 at 22:40)


Police fear Cronulla-style riots

December 23, 2007 - 9:01AM

There are fears a Cronulla-style riot may be brewing as tensions grow over plans to build an Islamic school in southwest Sydney.

Police are believed to be investigating a series of mobile phone text messages circulating Sydney, purportedly inciting violence.

"We have come together to call for calm after becoming aware of text messages being sent around targeting young Australian Muslims," Independent Centre of Research Australia Youth Centre president Fadi Abdul-Rahman told The Sunday Telegraph.

"Police have confirmed they are investigating.

"We are extremely concerned as this is exactly what happened with the Cronulla riots."

Mr Abdul-Rahman was joined by Uniting Church Minister Dr David Millikan in condemning the texts.

Dr Millikan launched an attack on Christian Democrats leader Fred Nile, whose comments in the past week may be seen as having added fuel to the fire.

Tensions escalated at Camden on Wednesday night at a public meeting to discuss the proposed 1,200 student Islamic school.

At the meeting Mr Nile spoke of Islam's opposition to Christianity and also claimed some Muslim schools overseas had produced terrorists.

Camden Council has received more than 300 submissions on the proposal and will make its decision on the development in March.

Early in November, 1000 residents protested against the school, with some saying it would damage the area's social fabric.

Later in November two pigs' heads were rammed on to metal stakes and an Australian flag draped between them on the site of the proposed school.

AAP


This story was found at: http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2007/...344858895.html

Never give in, never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. - Sir Winston Churchill, Speech, 1941, Harrow School
#19  
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(Posted as Konctre19)
Posts: 715/1971
(23-Dec-2007 at 00:32)


wow

on hussein's 3rd or 4th post i left a rep message "stop writing 17 posts in a row"

i had no idea it was ACTUALLY close to that many

Quote:
No one is forcing religion on kids. The Islamic community wants this school, so that their children have a thorough grounding in the Islamic religion.
the parents want the school so they can indoctrinate their kids

that IS forcing religion on kids

Quote:
Virtually every sect, denomination, religion that is practised for is catered for in the Australian independent education system, YET people are opposing the d'ment of this Islamic school. Why don't we just destroy the Hare Krishna, Ananda Marga, Jewish and every other minority Christian denomination schools and see how people react to that development?
pretty much all religious schools should be closed yes

i dont advocate discrimination - i dont think there should be ANY religious schools... but as christianity is a western religion (and we are a western country) a christian school - while religious and therefore bad - would not create the possibility of segregating people

of course, im not saying all the islamic schoolkids would be segregated from the rest of australian society, but many certainly would

Quote:
Yes, because you are suggesting that as Islam is not the native religion of Australia, Islamic schools should not be built. This is ridiculous, not least because Christianity is not even the original religion of Australia; the Dreamtime of the Aboriginals is.
it doesnt matter, because there are less than a million aboriginals in australia

Quote:
Muslim Australians are as much Australian as any other Australians of religious adherences. Just look at East West 101 (8:30 p.m., Thursday, SBS). The cop is one of the most fervent Australians you'll ever meet, and is also a pious Muslim.
im sure he is... does not mean they all are

Quote:
Oh yeah, what about the fact then that most people in Australia who put down Christianity as their religion do not even attend church every Sunday.
yeah, what about it??

Quote:
Moreover, what about the Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Jews, agnostics, atheists, whatever, who are also Australian citizens? Are they not as much or more Australian as Christians?
as much, yes.

but if foreign religions become an official part of a school, it creates a danger of segregation

Quote:
The education proposed will NOT be lacking in objectivity:
1. It will have to be inspected by assessors from the Department of Education every six years (as my Anglican affiliated, co-educational, independent school Newcastle Grammar) was recently, otherwise it will not gain a licence to continue
doesnt matter... the NSW government does not require the school to teach all religions... it will be teaching Islam, and is therefore no objective in the area of religion

the rest of the curriculum would of course be factual

Quote:
If the school abides by the NSW curriculum, the school will HAVE
to learn about different religions. Indeed, the HSC Studies of Religion course includes studies of Islam, Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity, agnosticism, atheism and tribal religions.
yeah coz all NSW students have to learn religious studies

Tax collectors are a valid military target - chobham
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