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Posts: 5/102
(07-Oct-2003 at 00:39)
Fireball damage

Has anybody got any solid evidence of a FB attack killing ??% of the enemy pop.

Somebody has suggested (Trevors guide to Utopia) that it was 10% but this looks way too much IMHO.

If so a well organised KD get together with 5 elf mage, each hit with 5 fb's each on a province (within an hour) This barrage takes the pezzies down from 10000 to 287 and knocks their Draft Rate up to 95%
(based on 1000 acre land all built, no max pop sci and 60% Draft rate orig)

10% must be too much

Attached is a zip with a small calc made in MS Excel, please feel free to use/test on.
Attached Files
File Type: zip fireball calc.zip (4.2 KB, 37 views)
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Posts: 6/102
(07-Oct-2003 at 00:54)
Sorry, have to edit too (to avoid confusion):

Based on 1000 acre land all built
(no homes = 25 ppa = 25000) (will edit calc 2moro)
No sci in max pop
Not including race modifiers (will edit calc 2moro)
60% Draft rate orig
(= 15000 army = 10000 pezzies)
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(09-Oct-2003 at 21:39)


Try using this calc (points to sig).

Compatible with all relevent mulitpliers.

It should be fairly easy to add what you've done to a separate worksheet.

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Posts: 7/102
(10-Oct-2003 at 01:03)
Sorry,

Lost me, points to sig? If you could explain in laymens terms (I'm having a blonde moment) I'll see what I can do.

I have edited the sheet so that you insert the no. of pezzie deaths (per Fb) to find out average Fb damage.

It will work better if somebody wants to test it out.
Attached Files
File Type: zip fireball calc.zip (4.8 KB, 14 views)
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(10-Oct-2003 at 06:58)


I get an idea now. I'll put your stuff on another sheet on my workbook and link the corresponding values across for you.

If I understand correctly, you're trying to find someone's predicted draft rate and the proportion of pezzies killed per FB. I'll see what I can do...

Meanwhile, if you can't find my sig, try this link instead...

http://forums.utopiatemple.com/attac...amp=1065641576

Use the zipped xls file [the HTML one doesn't work ATM].

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Posts: 10/102
(11-Oct-2003 at 04:06)
You can get the estimated draft rate from a CB, what I was looking at was the potential damage that 1 fireball has (some said 10%) and then the damage inflicted with a FB GangBang.
The draft rate/pezzie/military calc was purley in there to show how lethal this spell could be with a good Mage set-up in a Kingdom.

All I wanted to know really was what % of pezzies (on average) does a FB kill... 2% 5% 10% etc...

I can't judge it at all because i'm playing orc this age, so the only way I see what damage fireballs do is when they are hitting me, but unfortunately they always come combined with ns, meteor showers etc... so I cannot judge it on good grounds, only guesswork.
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(11-Oct-2003 at 08:55)


v3.0 'FB' out...

I merged the two spreadsheets. The fireball calc now also shows predicted kills based on # of FBs to go and the average % damage done by each preceding one.

Input for the details of the prov to be hit is now via the forms on the first page of the spreadsheet, except for the current peasants box, on the fireball calc. sheet, which can be used to override the calculated max peasants figure.
Attached Files
File Type: zip training grounds vs. banks v3.0fb.zip (28.4 KB, 55 views)

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(Posted as trieze)
Posts: 194/517
(11-Oct-2003 at 09:29)


strange...

without looking at your calcualtions too much, i;v e noticed one thing in particular. was not aware that hoem sdid anything but take up land and not employ peants for it..

i mean there is that houses so many extra eants than normal buildings but..

how does that figure in.. aybe idon;t understand houses but, then againmaybe houxses do nothing but add nw where undbult lands would prevuously would;ve been.. ?

(sorry that;s a little known, now unuseful strat dynmaic from ages past)

if you can't read my post then don't.
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(11-Oct-2003 at 15:16)


From the Guide:
Quote:
Homes: Houses 30 people (as opposed to the normal 25)
Employs no one
The housing of x people is subject to all the normal population modifiers, of course, so homes will house more people if you have high happiness and a lot of housing sci.

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(11-Oct-2003 at 15:26)


According to my experience with fireballs in the past rounds, this round and even today...the fireballs are not fixed numbers related to your amount of peasants.

It's a percentage which fluctuates as far as i know.

After the FB's 12406 peasants left
May 4th
A massive fireball crashed into our lands and killed 1476 of our peasants!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

May 4th
A massive fireball crashed into our lands and killed 1077 of our peasants!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

May 4th
A massive fireball crashed into our lands and killed 1127 of our peasants!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

May 4th
A massive fireball crashed into our lands and killed 808 of our peasants!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

May 4th
A massive fireball crashed into our lands and killed 1192 of our peasants!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


looks to me that it indeed is up to 10%...

Blood Raven
Former Head investigator of the HappinessFormulaeandIndicators of age 17 through 25.
Creator of the (now outdated) TipsandTricksGuidetoUtopia!
Haven't played Utopia in several years now. But i have returned

Last edited by Blood Raven, 11-Oct-2003 at 15:27.
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(11-Oct-2003 at 19:23)


I think that this is researchable. If other people could report strings of FBs [and post the # of peasants the target had beforehand, I could probably get a good idea of how this works.

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(Posted as Gavmaster G)
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(15-Oct-2003 at 01:09)


I don't know. To me, it's always seemed between around 8-11%. It's never been 10% consistently though. That would mean that you lose an average of 1000 peasents per hit at 10,000, and I think it's usually less than that.

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(16-Oct-2003 at 07:02)


The average of 1k per hit is only for the first FB. The percentage pertains to what you have when the FB is cast.

So if on a 10k peasants province, each FB kills 10%, the first kills 1000, the second 900, the third 810 and so on. You would never actually kill the last peasant this way; PKs depend on the last few peasants leaving due to overpopulation...

This is still probably too high. BR suggests that the percentage itself fluctuates as well...

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(16-Oct-2003 at 13:33)


Just based on the numbers Blood Raven posted...


the target had 14406 peasants when a fireball killed 808.

808 / 14406 = 5.6%


I cannot recall ever seeing damage higher than 10%. Likely the damage% is distributed between 5% and 10% (uniformly or normally I dont know - probably uniformly) and is almost certainly modified by differences in Guild % and size difference.


If we get around 100 examples we can make a guess. If we get 500, we can probably work it out pretty close.
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Posts: 118/271
(16-Oct-2003 at 13:44)


Quote:
(Originally posted by metao)

If we get around 100 examples we can make a guess. If we get 500, we can probably work it out pretty close.
gee, that person would have to have alot of time on his hands to calculate all 500 examples... i have tried with my kd fireballing a province down to 300 peasants. after that our results we're '...killed 10 peasants ...killed 9 peasants ...killed 9 peasants ... killed 8 peasants' and so on. even kidnapping only resulted in ' ...we managed to kidnap 2 peasants ... we managed to kidnap 1 peasant'. so i would say that its around 5% or maybe even less.

btw, me and my kd were trying to kill that province off by killing all his peasants. we nvr tried it b4 and was curious to see if he would die if he got to 0 peasants
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(17-Oct-2003 at 07:05)


smile

The spreadsheet gets around the difficulty of the unknown percentage by taking the average % damage you've been doing. It should therefore be fairly accurate.

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(Posted as Domiii)
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(17-Oct-2003 at 19:46)


i've gotten a 10% FB hit, the target had about 12000 pezzies, and i hit for around 1200. = 10%
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(17-Oct-2003 at 19:54)
do your calculations consider the magic effectiveness of the spell caster?
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(18-Oct-2003 at 01:38)


Read this a bit fast, but i tend to agree w/ 10% jsut based on damage i've done to myself reflecting magic. I'll start to keep track though as we do a lot of fireballs in war. :P

but remember, even if you get 10% max, the peasants left after X fireballs is (starting peasants) * (.9)^X. wasn't sure but didn't look like people were doign it this way.

i tend to think it fluctuates very widely as very frequently you'll do a lot of fireballs in a row killing an approximate equal amount of peasants (like 5 in a row in the 400-500 range and so on, though it does obviously tend down slowly).

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(18-Oct-2003 at 09:22)


sunglasses

Never fear, the spreadsheet works in the [correct] way that you suggest. I have neatened the fireball damage calculator considerably and added a logarithmic function that works out the number of FBs needed to PK someone, based on a sample string of FBs against them.

Click my sig to get it...

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