Utopia Temple
Main Forum Page Register an Account for Free! Calendar Frequently Asked Questions about this Board View New Posts Advanced Search Login
  Utopia Temple Forums > Utopia Temple > Complaints

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Post New Thread Closed Thread
Author Thread
Posts: 4773
Donated $9.31
(11-Jan-2008 at 09:20)


People being warned for combining two words

Several people have been warned for combining the two words 'friends' and 'enemies', and this in a setting where it was prefectly clear that those words were being used.

In the warning-thread, SaSi immediately disregards a Wikipedia article about the word 'frenemy' (a variation of what has been warned for). What SaSi should know is that Wiki articles have sources. Isn't notability an issue? Would people be warned for using the word 'truthiness'? By googling it's possible to find several articles using the word 'frenemy', including one by CNN!

Hell, Colbert himself used the word.

Of course, I don't see why it'd be warnable even if it wasn't some new invention of a random UT-user. I do understand the non-English rules, and it's claims that it's hard for mods to be certain that "foreign" words aren't really curse words, or something entirely different. However, how could anyone be confused about the word 'Frenemy'? Also, I remember when we frequently used the word evul, and that was before the language rule was loosened up.

There's being consistent, and there's warning just for the sake of warning.

My MSN is still [email protected].
My Skype is kapteindynetrekk

Last edited by Nimon, 11-Jan-2008 at 09:23.
Edit reason: Fixed link
#1  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Nimon Add Nimon to your Buddy List
Global Moderator
Research Group
Posts: 3018/3400
Donated $25.30
(11-Jan-2008 at 09:44)


Key points

Wiki "sources" are anyone who wants to write something

notability? never heard the "word" used before so I looked it up using a reliable resource .. the dictionary

Truthiness as defined by Websters
Part of Speech: n
Definition: the state of wishing things to be true; also, conformity to beliefs one feels or wishes to be true

So no, truthiness wouldnt be warned

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"
R.I.P. InJustice!
Hit me up on Facebook

EWE-tah
#2  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Saint Sinner Add Saint Sinner to your Buddy List
Posts: 4331/4773
Donated $9.31
(11-Jan-2008 at 09:51)


Re: People being warned for combining two words

Originally Posted by Saint Sinner: View Post
Key points

Wiki "sources" are anyone who wants to write something

notability? never heard the "word" used before so I looked it up using a reliable resource .. the dictionary
So I guess that includes the CNN, then? We should all write them a letter and complaining that they used a non-word?


Quote:
Truthiness as defined by Websters
Part of Speech: n
Definition: the state of wishing things to be true; also, conformity to beliefs one feels or wishes to be true

So no, truthiness wouldnt be warned
You do know why truthiness is in the dictionary, right? It was made up by Colbert just over two years ago, in the very same segment where he used the word 'frenemy'. If everyone thought like you, truthiness would never have appeared in the dictionary because people wouldn't have used it. How do you think new words are made?

A famous talk show host uses the word, there are articles on how a CEO of a big company used it to describe Google, it's been used in several articles; including by CNN.com.

My MSN is still [email protected].
My Skype is kapteindynetrekk

Last edited by Nimon, 11-Jan-2008 at 09:52.
#3  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Nimon Add Nimon to your Buddy List
Global Moderator
Research Group
Posts: 3400
Donated $25.30
(11-Jan-2008 at 10:06)


Re: People being warned for combining two words

Originally Posted by Nimon: View Post
You do know why truthiness is in the dictionary, right?
No, because im completely stupid and didnt read the entire entry


Quote:
It was made up by Colbert just over two years ago,
What?! LIES!!!


Quote:
in the very same segment where he used the word 'frenemy'.
Yet theres no entry for that "word"

Quote:
If everyone thought like you, truthiness would never have appeared in the dictionary because people wouldn't have used it.
See, heres where you go off thinking you know me, and yet you dont. I dont care.
Fuckalotashitopopotamus. There. I made a word, now go forth and use it.
I have used stranger words than you can imagine but its not my job here to judge what could be but what is and I do that by using a resource previously agreed upon.

Quote:
How do you think new words are made?
The word fairy drops them off to our supreme commander the great GW who than tests them by speaking to the American public

Quote:
A famous talk show host uses the word, there are articles on how a CEO of a big company used it to describe Google, it's been used in several articles; including by CNN.com.
Still doesnt address my main argument though

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"
R.I.P. InJustice!
Hit me up on Facebook

EWE-tah
#4  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Saint Sinner Add Saint Sinner to your Buddy List
Posts: 4332/4773
Donated $9.31
(11-Jan-2008 at 10:16)


Re: People being warned for combining two words

Originally Posted by Saint Sinner: View Post
Fuckalotashitopopotamus. There. I made a word, now go forth and use it.
Yeah, just as soon as popular comedians and CEO's start using it.

Here's what I think of your "main argument"

My MSN is still [email protected].
My Skype is kapteindynetrekk
#5  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Nimon Add Nimon to your Buddy List
Posts: 1617/2247
Donated $4.24
(11-Jan-2008 at 10:20)


But SaSi, if the 'non-English' word has been used, a translation in English would make it "un-warnable" right?

If someone didn't understand what the word meant, they could have easily deduced it by the context of the posts, which would pass as a 'translation' wouldn't it?

And technically, it is easily verifiable from a quick search of the internet.

Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege!
Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia - The Fear of Long Words
#6  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Alexstrasza Add Alexstrasza to your Buddy List
Posts: 163/172
(11-Jan-2008 at 14:22)


Re: People being warned for combining two words

You see, as a user of UT, I do not have a problem with people combining two words, two make a word that perfectly describes what you are trying to say. isn't it something like only 15% of communication is through the actual words (text), and the rest is through inflection and body language. on the boards we only have text. so why can't we use words that convey a more defined meaning of what we're tryin to say...

Originally Posted by Saint Sinner: View Post
Fuckalotashitopopotamus. There. I made a word, now go forth and use it.
no this is just taking the piss out of a completely reasonable point. can mods get warned?
#7  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Faraway14 Add Faraway14 to your Buddy List
Posts: 787/1971
(11-Jan-2008 at 14:30)


Quote:
can mods get warned?
i hope so since its a non-english word that is warnable by his own definition

im surprised you even so much as considered warning the original post for non-english... as i said, the purpose of the rule is to prevent people from saying shit people can't understand... how does the warning you gave reflect that??

Tax collectors are a valid military target - chobham
#8  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Spectre19 Add Spectre19 to your Buddy List
Research Group
Posts: 340/670
Donated $112.99
(11-Jan-2008 at 16:19)


Originally Posted by Saint Sinner: View Post
Wiki "sources" are anyone who wants to write something
You are absolutely correct in statign that Wikipedia can be edited by anybody (hell, you don't even need an account to edit) but, the sources that the editors use in creating the Wikipedia articles cannot be edited. What about these?

Originally Posted by Wikipedia "Frenemy" reference:
Frenemies at Work, Liz Ryan, BusinessWeek, June 14, 2007.
Originally Posted by Nimon: View Post
It was made up by Colbert just over two years ago...
Sorry, but that is inaccurate.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia "Truthiness":
Colbert had unknowingly reinvented the word truthiness,[7] which has a history in literature and appears in the Oxford English Dictionary (OED) (as a derivation of truthy) and The Century Dictionary, both of which indicate it as rare or dialectal. Colbert's definition of the word was a novel invention, because the OED and The Century Dictionary define it as a variation of straightforward truthfulness. The prior existence of the word was brought to public attention by linguist and OED consultant Benjamin Zimmer
Originally Posted by Alexstrasza: View Post
But SaSi, if the 'non-English' word has been used, a translation in English would make it "un-warnable" right?

If someone didn't understand what the word meant, they could have easily deduced it by the context of the posts, which would pass as a 'translation' wouldn't it?

And technically, it is easily verifiable from a quick search of the internet.
It's safe to assume that the definition of a word can be assumed by the context of a sentence or paragraph. For example, constantly in English class when a student asks what a word means the teacher tells us to look at the word within the context of the sentence or the paragraph to figure it out.
#9  
View Public Profile Find more posts by advocatus Add advocatus to your Buddy List
Posts: 2087/2825
(12-Jan-2008 at 10:21)


Oh come on seriously? Warning for the use of the word frenemy? That's just wow. Don't really have words for it. You have to be quite sheltered not to know this word. It's constantly on TV. Especially on the more teen shows. Warning for something like seems a bit petty to me and really just causes more problems between the users and the moderators.

Quote:
notability? never heard the "word" used before so I looked it up using a reliable resource .. the dictionary
Wait so your problem is you didn't know the word? Well by this logic should you start banning anyone who uses more complicated terms that the average users wouldn't know? I mean they would both require that you actually go and look for it's meaning(let me guess now you are going to argue that the true meaning of a word can be found ONLY through a dictionary right?). And well it's not exactly hard to find the meaning of the word frenemy. It's a well defined and rather simple slang

The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common; they don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit the views

Last edited by DHoffryn, 12-Jan-2008 at 10:31.
#10  
View Public Profile Find more posts by DHoffryn Add DHoffryn to your Buddy List
Global Moderator
Research Group
Posts: 3020/3400
Donated $25.30
(12-Jan-2008 at 11:40)


Well to be honest Hoff I dont watch many teen shows since I find it to be rather full of unintelligent shit, of course I say that about most tv .. in fact I go days without watching anything.

So yes I didnt know what a frenemy(WTE) was and yes I looked it up in a dictionary ... guess that was my mistake. I mean really .. who these days would use such a resource to find the meaning of a word

slang pffft

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"
R.I.P. InJustice!
Hit me up on Facebook

EWE-tah
#11  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Saint Sinner Add Saint Sinner to your Buddy List
(Posted as active 8)
Posts: 236/389
(12-Jan-2008 at 14:46)


Re: People being warned for combining two words

Originally Posted by Saint Sinner: View Post
So yes I didnt know what a frenemy(WTE) was and yes I looked it up in a dictionary ... guess that was my mistake. I mean really .. who these days would use such a resource to find the meaning of a word
That I don't understand, how can you not understand what the word frenemy means in the context of that thread? Seems quite obvious to me that it's a mix of the 2 words and thus a mix of the 2 meanings. I don't understand why an american like you would have problems seeing that, yet a dutchie like me doesn't.
#12  
View Public Profile Find more posts by activ8 Add activ8 to your Buddy List
Posts: 795/1971
(12-Jan-2008 at 14:48)


Quote:
That I don't understand, how can you not understand what the word frenemy means in the context of that thread? Seems quite obvious to me that it's a mix of the 2 words and thus a mix of the 2 meanings. I don't understand why an american like you would have problems seeing that, yet a dutchie like me doesn't.
well exactly... i reckon someone just got home in a shitty mood after a bad day at school or work, sat down to read the thread, and thought "shit, i hope frenemy isnt in the dictionary so i can warn someone"

Tax collectors are a valid military target - chobham
#13  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Spectre19 Add Spectre19 to your Buddy List
Global Moderator
Posts: 4306/4591
Donated $27.58
(12-Jan-2008 at 14:54)


You know what guys? It gets really tiresome to read this after a while, so until someone makes an effort and can actually post something constructive about this I'm going to close the thread for the time being. Why? Because nothing will get better by you guys ganging up on SaSi and throwing tons of attitude his way.

When someone has something of value to post, feel free to let me know and I'll reopen the thread. If you just want to bitch in general, get a blog. For now, just everyone chill. Please.

As a note, I'll talk to SaSi when I get the chance and see if we can sort this whole mess out. If (any of you) users wish to talk about this incident as well, feel free to send me a PM.


"If You Fall, I’ll Be There"
-– Floor


Last edited by Konc, 12-Jan-2008 at 15:13.
#14  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Konc Add Konc to your Buddy List
(Posted as active 8)
Posts: 236/389
(12-Jan-2008 at 18:23)


I found out after my last post in this thread that Saint Sinner had already revoked the warning last night. If I knew that earlier I wouldn't have made that last post, but instead would have thanked you for revising the warning. That said, I think this issue blew a bit out of proportion, which wasn't really necessary

Last edited by active 8, 12-Jan-2008 at 18:23.
#15  
View Public Profile Find more posts by activ8 Add activ8 to your Buddy List
Global Moderator
Posts: 4307/4591
Donated $27.58
(12-Jan-2008 at 18:31)


I've talked to SaSi now, and he had already revoked the non-english warnings that had been issued relating to this incident. In addition we'll all have a wee bit more liberal stance on the non-english rule.

With that being said, I hope all of you realize that you aren't winning any favors by throwing a bash fest like you have in this thread. If you want to complain about something, chances are that you'll get much further by discussing it in an orderly fashion.

I'll leave the thread open, but in return I expect the mod bashing to stop right above my first post in the thread.


"If You Fall, I’ll Be There"
-– Floor

#16  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Konc Add Konc to your Buddy List
(Posted as matinog)
Posts: 671/922
(13-Jan-2008 at 03:04)


Originally Posted by Konc: View Post
I've talked to SaSi now, and he had already revoked the non-english warnings that had been issued relating to this incident. In addition we'll all have a wee bit more liberal stance on the non-english rule.

With that being said, I hope all of you realize that you aren't winning any favors by throwing a bash fest like you have in this thread. If you want to complain about something, chances are that you'll get much further by discussing it in an orderly fashion.

I'll leave the thread open, but in return I expect the mod bashing to stop right above my first post in the thread.
when you have a legitimate concern and your are just stonewalled with some 'wit', it is insane to imagine that noone would want to have their say with SaSi.
#17  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Mandraque Add Mandraque to your Buddy List
(Posted as azar90)
Posts: 76/116
(13-Jan-2008 at 04:01)
Re: People being warned for combining two words

Originally Posted by Konc: View Post
I've talked to SaSi now, and he had already revoked the non-english warnings that had been issued relating to this incident. In addition we'll all have a wee bit more liberal stance on the non-english rule.
While I think that's generally a good thing, I don't think a liberal stance is required for this rule so much as a common sense - and consistent - one. SaSi for example has argued in this thread that the English dictionary is an acceptable authority for determining a word is English, yet when it came to warning someone for using c'est la vie - which does appear in the English dictionary - it suddenly wasn't.

If something does indeed appear in the English dictionary, or if it's a slang term whose meaning is easily determined by googling it or checking wikipedia, for example, I just don't see what evil is being countered by issuing warning points - particularly since if either of those is the case there's no way for a poster to know beforehand that they're supposed to provide a "translation".
#18  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Az 90 Add Az 90 to your Buddy List
Posts: 1622/2247
Donated $4.24
(13-Jan-2008 at 04:53)


Re: People being warned for combining two words

Originally Posted by azar90: View Post
SaSi for example has argued in this thread that the English dictionary is an acceptable authority for determining a word is English, yet when it came to warning someone for using c'est la vie - which does appear in the English dictionary - it suddenly wasn't.
That warning was given out before the "Non-English" rule was relaxed, if I recall correctly.

Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege!
Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia - The Fear of Long Words

Last edited by Alexstrasza, 13-Jan-2008 at 04:53.
#19  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Alexstrasza Add Alexstrasza to your Buddy List
(Posted as AMYQ)
Posts: 348/475
(13-Jan-2008 at 05:57)


I think, from now on, that maybe situations like this should be discussed. With us, with each other.... I don't know. I just think this was a case of stubbornness, on behalf of all parties, and I applaud SaSi for conceding, we should be working together to make reasonable, acceptable rules, rather than abusing power, or the relaxing of the rules.

Mods - I think common sense prevailed on this occasion, good work. In the future, consider the benefits of warning something like that.

Users - Don't start being smart arses to see how far you can push this new rule. If we want mods to 'lax on rules, be reasonable. I am proud of how we rallied together though.

[/ramble]

INSANE CUBE FISH™
This is the clock up on the wall/This is the story of us all/This is the first sound of a new born child before he starts to crawl
This is the war that's never won/This is the soldier and his gun/This is the mother waiting by the phone praying for her son
#20  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Miss AmyQ Add Miss AmyQ to your Buddy List
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump:

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Orleans is Sinking? [merged] QuantumChaos Respectable General Discussions 168 16-Dec-2005 06:12
the GOP is great thehegemon Respectable General Discussions 104 30-Jun-2005 20:30
Chrisitanity is full of hypocritical statments and lies! Lord Anubis Religious Discussions 304 02-Mar-2004 14:02
The overwhelming good Religion has contributed to humanity PatrioticSpirit Religious Discussions 204 30-Jan-2004 06:10
American Danger Traulus Respectable General Discussions 55 25-Jan-2004 00:03


All times are GMT+1. The time now is 07:28.

Powered by vBulletin (modified)
Copyright © Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.