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Administrator
Posts: 8414
(09-Jan-2007 at 23:21)


exclamation mark Moderators Team Updates

Five moderators have been relieved from duty today: Sygnal, BrandonC, Kyleesha, Lodewijk and MAPS.

Without getting into much details, some of them have been found to act against Utopia Temple while serving as staff members at its lines. It's sad to see people who have dedicated so much for this site, deciding to turn against it in such a nasty way.

The other moderators have been relieved due to inactivity. We thank them for their contribution to Utopia Temple and wish them all the best in the future.

Brother Green, Utopia Angel creator.
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Posts: 137/464
(10-Jan-2007 at 03:04)


Are you planning to add more mods to fill in the gaps left by them?

I am the darkness in your life, I am the light
I am the end of your tunnel, I am the beginning of your future
I am the end, your end. I am the path to your salvation.

Your bane, or your hope. You decide.
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(10-Jan-2007 at 03:09)


Are these demotions in any way connected to the bans on former moderators? Other than their also being rather arbitrary, that is.

No Comment
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(10-Jan-2007 at 03:10)


Things have seriously gone downhill for UT in the last year or so.

If all else fails, call someone a troll.
that can be fixed... /

Last edited by Greeney, 10-Jan-2007 at 03:10.
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(10-Jan-2007 at 03:17)


With Sygnal "gone", there's only SF left of the original mods when I came to UT.. I think. Bit suprising, the whole deal, to say the least. Obviously all is not well in UT-town.

My MSN is still [email protected].
My Skype is kapteindynetrekk
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(10-Jan-2007 at 06:12)


Re: Moderators Team Updates

Originally Posted by Greeney: View Post
Things have seriously gone downhill for UT in the last year or so.
Seriously. I liked these mods, much more than most of the other (overzealous) mods.

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin
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(10-Jan-2007 at 06:28)


Re: Moderators Team Updates

Originally Posted by Brother Green: View Post
Five moderators have been relieved from duty today: Sygnal, BrandonC, Kyleesha, Lodewijk and MAPS.

Without getting into much details, some of them have been found to act against Utopia Temple while serving as staff members at its lines. It's sad to see people who have dedicated so much for this site, deciding to turn against it in such a nasty way.

The other moderators have been relieved due to inactivity. We thank them for their contribution to Utopia Temple and wish them all the best in the future.
You've turned a brilliant community into a waste dump, Green. Naz is arguably one of the worst moderators I have ever seen on any forum anywhere. He's vindictive, but that's nothing new. What's amazing is how relentlessly petty and frankly absurd he is. You've allowed this guy to run amok, which makes you, congratulations, one of the worst site owners I've ever seen, too.

I've donated $50.00 to this site, and hundreds of hours. I've made many posts and many threads. Many would argue these were great posts; Naz would not. Most, however, would argue that Naz, like I said, is a terrible moderator and a rather lacking human being.

I would prefer that I could get a refund on that money and that time. Others, too, have contributed to a rich and vibrant community, and would likely also enjoy having that time back. Naz, with your permission, has ravaged two successive waves of LAers, and that shattered husk near the bottom of the forum list is all that remains.

I want to congratulate you on your stealth bans of several former moderators without giving reason for it, people who hadn't posted in a month in some cases. Kudos. You've destroyed your own community, and now they're leaving. Congratulations, Brother Green. You've really earned this salute.


Naz, a note to you. Remember this, my tiny, trivial little friend. All you've done is caused the people who you like to fuck with to walk away. No, you haven't routed us, however much you might love to believe that. You've merely caused us to decide UT is rubbish now, and we're moving on. Now enjoy your yes-men.


SaSi, all I have to say is JESUS CHRIST WHAT THE FUCK? That's all I got.


If you enjoy my posting style, and Tathlyn's, I encourage you to join me on #bar some day. We might discuss other arrangements for people of a like mind to enjoy humor. Lord knows it's not appreciated here.

Closing note- I don't suspect Naz, SaSi, or, god forbid he should come down from his Bold, Emerald Throne, Green will come and reply to this post. If they do, what the hell, I'll reply myself. More likely I'll be banned for disrespect for staff, probably permanently. Maybe I'll get one of those stealth bans that have been floating around- the ones that don't cross out your name or mention you're banned, but don't allow you to post or PM? That'd be sweet. I've always enjoyed feeble displays of petty, thwarted spite.
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(10-Jan-2007 at 11:52)


lightbulb

I admit, I'm a lousy forum administrator. I'm mainly a programmer, who happens to run a community site. One aspect of this site is the forums. I cannot invest 100% of my time just there. For this purpose, I have appointed moderators to help me run the forums, and report to me situations that require my intervention. In every big community there are always people who disagree with the way things run, and prefer to take the anti-establishment route, because it is always a good thing to be nonconformist. There is not much we can do in this regard when it comes from the users, they can always leave, we're not holding a gun to their heads. But when it comes from a moderator, we cannot allow it. A moderator has to be loyal to the site he works for, and the second he starts leaking internal information and infringe a written agreement with the site's administrator, we cannot use his services anymore. The fact that many people take it so emotionally can only be explained by their strong bond to this site, which means we did something right. Taking the kamikaze route and act against the site you used to work for and had access to its internal information, and releasing logs of subjective private conversations you had other moderators, is simply shabby and mean, by all pretext.

I do feel sorry for the people who decided to leave us, but I'm also aware of my limitations. If something is rotten in the inside, try to change it from the inside. Sending me a message once or twice may solve a specific case, but will not bring a reform. Not surprisingly the moderator who leaked rarely even spoke to me.

Just one final note to those users who decided to leave. If you decided to leave, then leave. Don't stay here and spread your venom. Let us lick our wounds and overcome this unfortunate event.

Brother Green, Utopia Angel creator.
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(10-Jan-2007 at 12:00)


Slight change of subject:

First: Will there be new mods?

If so: How will these be chosen?

I think last time worked great. People proposing mods, and the final decision done behind the curtains.
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(Posted as Lodewijk)
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(10-Jan-2007 at 12:25)


If you are planning to add new moderators Brother Green, I would personally recommend NeoDeGenero, Apeiron, AMYQ, and Scotty McPac for the job (s). That is, of course, if they are willing to accept the positions. You demodded me before I could make the recommendation in the Hideout, so I thought this would be the relevant place to post.

You've chosen the userbase you wish to cater to. The least you could do is make sure they have adequate representation lest the whimsies of your attendant-lords (full of high sentence, but a bit obtuse) flutter off in another direction.

I shan't keep my hopes up of this post remaining in public view, and indeed the only question is whether it will be Starfriend or SaintSinner who will censor it. But for what it's worth, I am serious about my nominations for the replacement moderators.

I just realised you need a fifth moderator. Might I suggest jenn2006, or Acadian9? 0Stubb0 or matinog would also make a worthy choice. You have a myriad of options in your brave new world, that has such people in't (in a manner of speaking). As Apeiron mentioned, this is the opportunity for a 'golden age.' I suggest you grasp it with both hands. I firmly believe that this epoch of excellence can only be achieved with the firm hands of Scotty McPac and AMYQ on the wheel. As I said, you picked them as the base to cater for. At least reward them.

As a final note, only you can possibly know the hypocrisy of that last post. I don't want to become another Tengu and get banned, nor do I particularly want to get into what happened behind closed doors. But I can only hope in time you realise what's going on. You should have realised it was the beginning of the end when the frankly asinine rep changes were made. The self-righteous outrage rings hollow when you consider -everything- you have allowed to happen.

In case this post does get censored and I get permbanned, I suppose this might serve as a goodbye to everyone. But for amazingwonderfulspecialsuperawesomecoollove! people like exmuse, you know I'm not going anywhere. <3 Richie, dafty, evie, tonykins, zac, philjenionutnimic, and all the rest, I'll see ya round

Ave imperator, Scotty McPac,
Sid.

Is birth always a fall?
Do angels have wings? Can men fly?
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(10-Jan-2007 at 12:59)
This make me sad BG. Any change here made lately seems to be a bad one. You let some of your best moderators go there, and let some of the worst stay. After you mailed me recently I hoped you might wake up and start to see what's really going on here, but as usual that was false hope. And still you wondered why I didn't come talk to you sooner? It seems to be of no use. This has nothing to do with being non conformist. Every person involved here, moderators and members, have done what they did because they actually cared for this site, if not anymore then they did in the past.

I'm pretty sure every member here would be more then interested to see what is actually said behind the scenes by some of your moderators, and would be disgusted by some of their behaviour, I know I was. Seeing the actual content of the leaked internal information, I praise the people involved here for doing what they did.

It's a shame that you see any criticism to this site as venom, instead of just that, criticism. Really, wake up. Things have been rotting for a long time now.
#11  
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(10-Jan-2007 at 13:10)


Re: Moderators Team Updates

Originally Posted by P a r a: View Post

I'm pretty sure every member here would be more then interested to see what is actually said behind the scenes by some of your moderators, and would be disgusted by some of their behaviour, I know I was. Seeing the actual content of the leaked internal information, I praise the people involved here for doing what they did.
There is over 27k posts in MH

How much of that did you actually see?
Enough to make an informed opinion?
What about every private conversation between mods and bg or anything staff related?

You and the rest see one small part and think you know the entire story about what goes on

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"
R.I.P. InJustice!
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EWE-tah
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(10-Jan-2007 at 13:11)


Originally Posted by P a r a:
and would be disgusted by some of their behaviour, I know I was. Seeing the actual content of the leaked internal information, I praise the people involved here for doing what they did.
Oh come on. That is seriously exaggerating it. It wasn't that bad

Originally Posted by P a r a:
It's a shame that you see any criticism to this site as venom, instead of just that, criticism. Really, wake up. Things have been rotting for a long time now.
You know very well that this was more than criticism. Criticism would be posting/sending arguments and examples of what is going wrong, suggestions for how it could be done better etc. Actively working to undermine UT is not criticism.

---

Originally Posted by Lodewijk:
But for what it's worth, I am serious about my nominations for the replacement moderators.
Good luck convincing anyone of that.

Originally Posted by Lodewijk:
As Apeiron mentioned, this is the opportunity for a 'golden age.'
That is not what I said and it was not my intention in what I said. I do not see this as an opportunity. I see this as a very sad happening, and I am really sorry to see most of you leave like this. This is not an opportunity.
What I did say was that I believe UT will overcome this and that new golden ages will come for the community.

Originally Posted by Lodewijk:
You should have realised it was the beginning of the end when the frankly asinine rep changes were made.
The changes were not perfect, but it brought the system closer to what it was supposed to be: giving rep for good posts rather than stockpiling with friends. This is off-topic however.
Good job on including non-English in your goodbye post btw

---

To expand upon my previous post in this thread: If choosing the new mods will not be done partially through nominations by the public, could the procedure at least be substantially transparent and if possible fast?
#13  
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(Posted as Lodewijk)
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(10-Jan-2007 at 13:25)


Quote:
Good luck convincing anyone of that.
You'd be surprised. Brother Green has made his bed, and chosen a particular group of people he wishes to cater for on this site. The people I mentioned are, in my belief, directly representative of that group, so it's only fair that the leadership of the site reflects this reality.

Don't mistake my disillusionment with bitterness. I bear no real ill-will for what has happened, only perhaps a sense of disappointment. A significant portion of the userbase has left. There is a new base of users at UT. The least that could be done is to see that this batch of users is represented properly.

Is birth always a fall?
Do angels have wings? Can men fly?
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(10-Jan-2007 at 13:29)
Re: Moderators Team Updates

Originally Posted by Saint Sinner: View Post
Enough to make an informed opinion?
My opinion was already formed, the things I read only confirmed it.
Originally Posted by Apeiron: View Post
Oh come on. That is seriously exaggerating it. It wasn't that bad
Well, then we obviously differ in opinion of how a moderators should behave. Not saying saying I was surprised though, like I said, it only confirmed what I already knew.
Originally Posted by Apeiron: View Post
You know very well that this was more than criticism. Criticism would be posting/sending arguments and examples of what is going wrong, suggestions for how it could be done better etc. Actively working to undermine UT is not criticism.
This wasn't a standalone incident. This was just a result of people being fed up. There have been plenty arguments/complaints in the past about policy and/or certain moderators that eventually resulted in nothing being done about anything. I'd be surprised if people didn't see this coming, because I surely did.

Anyway, I'll leave it at this. Don't think there's any use.
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(10-Jan-2007 at 13:31)


Re: Moderators Team Updates

Originally Posted by Lodewijk: View Post
You'd be surprised. Brother Green has made his bed, and chosen a particular group of people he wishes to cater for on this site. The people I mentioned are, in my belief, directly representative of that group, so it's only fair that the leadership of the site reflects this reality.

Don't mistake my disillusionment with bitterness. I bear no real ill-will for what has happened, only perhaps a sense of disappointment. A significant portion of the userbase has left. There is a new base of users at UT. The least that could be done is to see that this batch of users is represented properly.
You speak as if you were in a democracy, representation for what exactly?

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"
R.I.P. InJustice!
Hit me up on Facebook

EWE-tah
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(10-Jan-2007 at 13:42)


sid please elaborate on your definition of the userbase that you are referring to.
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(10-Jan-2007 at 13:42)


Re: Moderators Team Updates

Originally Posted by Saint Sinner: View Post
You speak as if you were in a democracy, representation for what exactly?
No UT taxes without representation ! Oh wait... we don't pay tax here, it is a free site given without any expectation of donation or ad revenue from it's users. Therefore I guess we shouldn't expect any representation and mods should be chosen purely based on their ability to do the unpleasent job.

On the subject of new mods, I would also vote (assuming I had a vote) for Black Fighter (a.k.a Aperion), a most fair and impartial forumer.

This is what every PvP argument boils down to:
Dear Devs:
Rock is overpowered, please nerf. Paper is fine.
Yours, Scissors
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(Posted as Lodewijk)
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(10-Jan-2007 at 13:43)


I thought it would provide a good cross-section of the userbase. People are naturally more likely to identify with people who they see as representative of the community in its entirety. Giving Moderator powers to Scotty McPac and AMYQ and co. would show that you have an awareness of the community of the site and have picked the representatives/leaders of the community according to that basis. Certainly the fact that they are unlikely to dispute anything you or Starfriend decide to institute is also an important factor - not to mention, if the veritable Partition of the rep changes was clearly intended to cater to the desires of a select userbase, you might as well go all the way and allow them representation.

That said, the fact that you view the very thought of democratic ideals or tenets as alien to these forums is so self-evidently telling that any exposition on my part is rather superfluous.

Quote:
Good job on including non-English in your goodbye post btw
I assumed that rule no longer exists given that Starfriend displays a non-English avatar quite openly now.

Quote:
sid please elaborate on your definition of the userbase that you are referring to.
I'm afraid that a detailed effort on my part would be leaking, and we all know where that gets us. Needless to say, note who approved of the rep changes, and who didn't. More importantly, -why- they did so. I would say that it is fairly obvious.

Is birth always a fall?
Do angels have wings? Can men fly?

Last edited by Lodewijk, 10-Jan-2007 at 13:45.
Edit reason: sorry, missed NDG's post.
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(10-Jan-2007 at 13:47)


Re: Moderators Team Updates

Originally Posted by Saint Sinner: View Post
You speak as if you were in a democracy, representation for what exactly?
So what you're saying is that this is more like a dictatorship, and the mods are more like the evil generals who keep people in line with the whip and make other people disappear? I see your point.

Anyway, even if things are growing "bad" at UT, I won't leave completely. I don't think I can ever do that short of UT being completely ruined.

My MSN is still [email protected].
My Skype is kapteindynetrekk

Last edited by Nimon, 10-Jan-2007 at 13:48.
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