Posts: 560/1637
(08-Apr-2006 at 10:41) |
First off, I am sorry to hear what has happened.
No one here can tell you 'why' exactly God took your children, especially when trying to explain to someone who doesn't necessarily believe in God in the first place (correct me if I am wrong). The answer for the faithful would be that God knows best and faith is the answer to overcoming the question of 'why.' All there is is faith. |
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(Posted as Dannoman)
Posts: 176/192 (08-Apr-2006 at 10:41) |
ah Grashnak, I am sorry to hear about your loss of two children. My brother died of cot-death before I was born so although I cannot personally know how it feels, my mum certainly can.
From what I can see, you're asking the age-old question about why there is death and pain in our world. I haven't done any study or read any books on the topic (incedentially, the next book of my 'to-read list' is How Long oh Lord, by D. A. Carson, which is about reflections on suffering and evil.) But the simple answer is: because we live in a fallen world. My advice would be to seek out some councelling with a christian minister, or even to ask a few questions. If they are worth their salt, they should be able explain with a far greater degree of ability than people such as myself on a board such as this one. Perhaps I will be able to give you a more in-depth answer when I chew my way through this book. rather than speaking out of ignorance, as alot of people tend to do. Last edited by Dannoman, 08-Apr-2006 at 10:43. |
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It's unfortunate that these things happen. But that's because we don't live in a perfect world and we have turned our backs on God. God originally intended Earth to be a paradise but we screwed up, and we now have sin, death, plague and pestilence.
God didn't kill your unborn children. That's just the bad nature of the world we live in. |
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Posts: 6562/8194
(08-Apr-2006 at 12:44) |
Re: Why did God kill my unborn children ?
Originally Posted by Gus Mackay:
It's unfortunate that these things happen. But that's because we don't live in a perfect world and we have turned our backs on God. God originally intended Earth to be a paradise but we screwed up, and we now have sin, death, plague and pestilence.
Horrible things happen because there is no God, because God wants it to happen, or because he just doesn't care. Based on the ingenuity of some parasites I must say that God seems to have taken a certain perverted pleasure in coming up with ways to torment us. |
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My condolences Grashnak, death is always a tradical, death of new born or unborn is something I cannot even think of how much pain that would bring to someone.
Have you heard test of Job? He went that exact things thru and worse. Job was obidient servant of God as you are atheist, but it doesn't mean god would not test peoples who have abandoned him, as God never abandon's a person. There are two sides fighting from our souls I believe. Devil and God. And they both test peoples to see how they endure the hardhips and what is their reaction... But I believe that your unborn child is now a better place. As all kids are born innocent... I know these word's will not comfort you much. But your questions are same that have plagued mankind's since dawn of time... Why... Nobody cannot answer that for you. You must find that answer yourself... Generalization is rhetorics of simpletons. "Sages learn from history... idiots learn from experience" -Fairy Tail manga |
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Posts: 6564/8194
(08-Apr-2006 at 16:00) |
Re: Why did God kill my unborn children ?
Originally Posted by Gus Mackay:
That's not what happened originally. When God withdrew following the fall, the Earth was left to sin. Everything bad has come from that.
I saw something about a totally wierd discussion on a Christian forum about predators not having existed before the fall combined with the knowledge that the were predators in the Cambrian, thus leading someone to the conclusion that the fall really took place in precamprian days.
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In regards to the tree of knowledge being present there, I don't doubt that it was a test.
Besides, why this extreme test? Why not just give us a slap on the fingers, "I told you not to do that". Doesn't condemning all of Earth to permanent misery seems kind of extreme to you? I could imagine putting some candy on a table and tell kids not to touch it, but I wouldn't use a shotgun if they did. |
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(Posted as caelis666)
Posts: 191/2297 (08-Apr-2006 at 17:31) ![]() |
Re: Why did God kill my unborn children ?
Originally Posted by Gus Mackay:
It's unfortunate that these things happen. But that's because we don't live in a perfect world and we have turned our backs on God. God originally intended Earth to be a paradise but we screwed up, and we now have sin, death, plague and pestilence.
God didn't kill your unborn children. That's just the bad nature of the world we live in. If I would have to answer the original question, I say it's because God, if he/she/it exists, is a force of nature and does not know of compassion. I do not share the view of Christianity that humanity was created after God's image. That is a very arrogant thing to take for granted in my opinion. Therefor you should not expect God to share our morals. The loss of a child is terrible, but not something that God 'chose' for. It, unfortunately, just happens. Modern world I'm not pleased to meet you |
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My personal view is that if their is a God, he simply does not care about us. Or cares very little. Or simply does not have the power to do anything about it. Or purposefully causes pain. Who knows?
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We have turned our back on God, and for that, 2 children die? It's for reasons like that, that I want to have nothing to do with religion, even if I am not an atheist. Especially Christians have a sick, twisted way of using horrible things as a punishment from God. Children, and especially babies, have nothing to do with the 'sins' of humanity. Killing innocent people because other people have turned their back on God doesnt seem like something a forgiving God would do.
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I thought you were a creationist? Do I remember wrong? How can entire branches of the animal kingdom have appeared by themselves if you don't believe in evolution?
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God created humans with curiosity. He must have realised that given enough time sooner or later we would give in to temptation. If God didn't intend this he is stupid, which sort of contradicts the assumptions of what a God is supposed to be like.
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(Posted as Condemned)
Posts: 838/1441 (09-Apr-2006 at 04:10) ![]() |
Re: Why did God kill my unborn children ?
Originally Posted by Gus Mackay:
Everything of this world is to be temporary. Pain is fleeting on the time scale we experience it compared to eternity.
Originally Posted by Gus Mackay:
We were perfect before the fall. It's not unreasonable to ignore temptation. God is perfect and does it everyday
This too will pass |
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Posts: 6565/8194
(09-Apr-2006 at 06:48) |
Re: Why did God kill my unborn children ?
Originally Posted by Gus Mackay:
I believe in a deteriating (sp) evolution after the fact, which for me explains the loss of genetic data and the rising of disease.
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I don't doubt that evolution occurs - it happens everyday - but looking at the timescale and looking at even the most rapid evolution we can see today, there is no possible way for that to have become an incredibly complex organism in the millions of years it supposedly took. Similarly, cells have a multi-reliance on a number of its parts. Without one of these parts, the cells simply cannot survive. This would imply an evolution so improbable since the cells at the time didn't have the genetic information to know exactly what was needed that it becomes nearly impossible. Unless of course, there was a divine influence in creation.
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We were perfect before the fall. It's not unreasonable to ignore temptation. God is perfect and does it everyday
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(Posted as caelis666)
Posts: 195/2297 (09-Apr-2006 at 17:50) ![]() |
Re: Why did God kill my unborn children ?
Originally Posted by Gus Mackay:
Same deal. For the most, God leaves the world to its own devices. God is interested about our salvation, and if we have to endure pain to get there, so be it. Think of it as 'no pain, no gain' principle. That may sound harsh, but that's just the way the world is.
Besides, leaves the world to its own devices? According to christianity, God created those devices. So in the end, your God is a sadist. Modern world I'm not pleased to meet you |
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Definition of Sadist is person who enjoys causing pain to others. You cannot say God is a sadist, as you do not know if God enjoys causing pain... I doubt that seriously personally.
God created lot's of things, but men corrupted a lot things that were not corrupted when God created those. What God created, man can corrupt it, well, most of those things... That is my humble opinion. God knows what happends in world, but he has promised to respect man's free will and due that, he cannot directly interfeare, not until its time to fill prophesies... God is rarely direct interaction with this world, due man's free will, so he uses a lot... undirect interaction, that will not breake man's free will... JMHO. Generalization is rhetorics of simpletons. "Sages learn from history... idiots learn from experience" -Fairy Tail manga |
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So be it - if you view my God as a sadist, it matters little. I've seen God, I know LM has seen God, and I know many other Christians who have seen God. We can bury our heads in the sands and think 'oh but I don't want to believe in a God who does 'X''. Newsflash: we're not on this earth because of you.
The entire purpose of earth is a test. We're constantly being tested to see if we can be trusted with true riches. It matters little in the long-run if we experience pain, because as Maynard Keynes once said 'in the long-run we're all dead'. You may not believe in God, or believe in God but just think that he's an ahole, but that's just life. God doesn't need to be nice to exist. Read the OT - He's not a lovely dovey God. He is also God of forgiveness. But this does not equate to God holding our hand through every part of our everyday lives. If horrible things have happened or evolved then that's just life. Blaming God will do you no good. |
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(Posted as Condemned)
Posts: 839/1441 (10-Apr-2006 at 03:57) ![]() |
Re: Why did God kill my unborn children ?
Originally Posted by Gus Mackay:
Blaming God will do you no good.
![]() This too will pass Last edited by Condemned, 10-Apr-2006 at 03:57. |
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Posts: 33/103
(10-Apr-2006 at 04:26) |
Re: Why did God kill my unborn children ?
Originally Posted by Condemned:
Neither will thanking or praising him, yet you silly Christians do it all the time
![]() Im sorry for your loss, but nobody can really say why it happened, who knows if god was the one responsible..has anyone considered that death exists because of Satan and he is the one who kills..God has nothing to do with it? If you want logic, imagine if every creature that ever existed was still alive, the human population would supposidly be + 60 billion. Overpopulation is bad enough..its not a nice way to look at things but it could be considered population control. |
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