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Posts: 7/42
(22-Dec-2003 at 08:14)
Christains have also co-opted other relgions holidays. Part of thier aggresive conversion campaign, btw I've never heard of anyone being converted to not believing in God by the sword.

Christmas was a pagan celebration revolving around the longest night of the year hence a tree with candles/lights to help get through the long night and long winter season. Also historically christmas is either 4 months early or 8 months late.

Easter - the name comes from Ester the druidic goddess of fertility(also the source of the name for estrogen). Really what does a rabit laying eggs have to do with christ? Sounds more like a fertility thing to me. Why is a christain holiday timed based on the cycle of the moon? Originally this was the spring planting and fertility festival.
#101  
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Posts: 996/1869
(22-Dec-2003 at 21:44)


Quote:
(Originally posted by OCUtopia Player)

Christains have also co-opted other relgions holidays. Part of thier aggresive conversion campaign, btw I've never heard of anyone being converted to not believing in God by the sword.

Christmas was a pagan celebration revolving around the longest night of the year hence a tree with candles/lights to help get through the long night and long winter season. Also historically christmas is either 4 months early or 8 months late.

Easter - the name comes from Ester the druidic goddess of fertility(also the source of the name for estrogen). Really what does a rabit laying eggs have to do with christ? Sounds more like a fertility thing to me. Why is a christain holiday timed based on the cycle of the moon? Originally this was the spring planting and fertility festival.
well we've never really threatened non-Christians to convert normally they just get killed

yep Santa looks alot like viking for a turk doesn't he?
yes we did take yuletide and make into Christmas



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#102  
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Posts: 336/898
(23-Dec-2003 at 00:25)


Quote:
(Originally posted by OCUtopia Player)

Christains have also co-opted other relgions holidays. Part of thier aggresive conversion campaign, btw I've never heard of anyone being converted to not believing in God by the sword.
may i ask where you got that idea?

"converted" is not the word but the persecution of Christians is all about that. also, look up this name: Saint Lorenzo Ruiz.

somehow after this post many people will say "but Christians have killed more," so i'm saying now that this is not to justify massacres in the name of God. just correcting you on that thought.

Last edited by Aletheia, 23-Dec-2003 at 00:26.
#103  
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Posts: 10/42
(23-Dec-2003 at 06:32)
Quote:
(Originally posted by Aletheia)

may i ask where you got that idea?

"converted" is not the word but the persecution of Christians is all about that. also, look up this name: Saint Lorenzo Ruiz.

somehow after this post many people will say "but Christians have killed more," so i'm saying now that this is not to justify massacres in the name of God. just correcting you on that thought.
Which Idea the co-opting holidays, or the conversion by the sword?
#104  
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Posts: 59/125
(23-Dec-2003 at 10:01)
The reason that Ruiz was being tortured for his religion had nothing to do with the Japanese wanting him to become an atheist. They simply wanted him to renounce being a Chrisitian. Thus your example has little significance because this has happened many times. (Think Roman persecution of the Christians).
The Japanese simply felt threatened by the religion that Ruiz and the others in his party were bringing to Japan. The captors wanted to maintain tradition (because that has always been HUGE in Japanese culture).

"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into." - Jonathon Swift
#105  
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Posts: 338/898
(23-Dec-2003 at 14:28)


Quote:
(Originally posted by nkari)

The reason that Ruiz was being tortured for his religion had nothing to do with the Japanese wanting him to become an atheist. They simply wanted him to renounce being a Chrisitian. Thus your example has little significance because this has happened many times. (Think Roman persecution of the Christians).
The Japanese simply felt threatened by the religion that Ruiz and the others in his party were bringing to Japan. The captors wanted to maintain tradition (because that has always been HUGE in Japanese culture).
i had the idea that the "God" being referred to by OCUtopia Player was the Christian God because he was trying to set the "conversion campaign" of Christians as being unique (because of the use of force at certain times in history) from non-Christian practices, not from atheists per se.

OCUtopia Player i was referring to "conversion by the sword."

Last edited by Aletheia, 23-Dec-2003 at 14:30.
#106  
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Posts: 379/759
(23-Dec-2003 at 18:01)


Re: A question for atheist;

Quote:
(Originally posted by PatrioticSpirit)

A question for atheist;
To what extent have atheist contributed to society?
Throughout our history religious groups have set up organizations for the betterment of mankind; Hospitals, for the sick and infirm, soup kitchens and shelters, for the homeless, treatment centers for the alcohol and drug addicted.
Have atheist done the same?
OK, I only read the first three pages so If someone has already said all this then I apologise for being repetitive =)

There is an important point to be made, and that is that for the most part athiests do not go about actively proclaiming their lack of faith. Religions on the other hand do so on a regular basis. Charitable religious organisations serve two porposes, that of the charitable cause itself, but also to highlight that faith and show the good work it does. Advertising if you like. This grows from the thiests desire to convert those that do not believe. For instance, McDonalds sponsoring childrens charities does great work - but they are also advertising. Reading that, it may sound as if I'm describing some underhanded tactics - it's not, the desire to do good is the objective, it's just why not do a bit of advertising as well.

Secularists on the other hand make a point of showing no allegiance or otherwise to any religious belief system. That is not to say that athiests and secularists don't contribute to religious charities - I do, it is just that there is no promotion other than the charity itself, thus the fact that it is not a thiest based charity is insignificant and even undetectable to most people.

For example, the UN is a purely secularist organisation and does huge amounts of work through countless sub-organisations and committee's right throughout the 'charitable spectrum' if there is such a thing. The Red Cross and Red Crescent, despite their use of religious imagery, are purely secular organisation(s). I could name many, many examples, but most would be localised charities (such as Oxfam, Goal, Children in Need, Comic Relief, Simon Community) which most people outside the UK and Ireland wouldn't have heard of. Both thiests and athiests alike contribute money to these charities and do volunteer work for them - just like thiests and athiests do for religious based charities.

The point that I'm not making very well is effectively that Religious charities, like corporate charities, are doing good work in order to further their own product/faith. The likes of Medecins sans Frontier in no way proclaim anything other than their charitable goals. No religious charity can claim the same, no matter that the secondary goals may be of much minor priority.

So to answer, yes athiests have contributed hugely to society - we just don't look for the credit!

"Let nothing be done through strife or vain glory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves."
- Philippians 2:3

I'm Mad As Hell And I'm Not Going To Take It Anymore!
#107  
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(Posted as grashnak)
Posts: 170/2050
Donated $50.00
(24-Dec-2003 at 10:52)


Quote:
(Originally posted by jahwarrior)

well we've never really threatened non-Christians to convert normally they just get killed

yep Santa looks alot like viking for a turk doesn't he?
yes we did take yuletide and make into Christmas



1000 POSTS W00T
Said it before but I still love it:

'We are the christians. Resistance is futile. Lower your defences & we will add your religious distinctivness to our own.'

This is what every PvP argument boils down to:
Dear Devs:
Rock is overpowered, please nerf. Paper is fine.
Yours, Scissors
#108  
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Posts: 33/38
(28-Dec-2003 at 08:41)
Quote:
(Originally posted by Donalbain)
we should all become Atheist and we can change the Earth to a utopia.

have you read brave new world?
#109  
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Posts: 516/728
(30-Dec-2003 at 09:40)
Quote:
So to answer, yes athiests have contributed hugely to society - we just don't look for the credit!
Well, theres a significant group of athiests (as well as a few religious people) trying to cure cancers, heart diseases, neural damage, organ malfunction, and a hell of a lot of other problems through stem cell research. They seem to be running into some opposition though...

_-^-_ OH NO! MY WOOLEN SUIT HAS NYLON IN IT! BETTER FIRE UP THE INCINERATOR AND GET MYSELF A GOAT! A female one...god doesn't want a male one...
#110  
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