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View Poll Results: Should more people vote for the Green party? Be serious.
Yes. 22 34.92%
No. 17 26.98%
What's the Green Party? 5 7.94%
No, but we should vote for another independent party. 6 9.52%
No, the Greens are taking votes away from the Democrats! 7 11.11%
Who cares about politics? Let's have anarchy! 6 9.52%
Who voted? Voters: 63
You may not vote on this poll

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Posts: 19/37
(30-Apr-2004 at 19:47)


Should more people vote for the Green party?

I say more people should vote for the Green party. I am encouraging everyone I know to vote for the Greens this next election. It's not just about them winning (they won't) but about having a third party be nationally recognized in this country. I tell people even if they're dedicated to voting on Bush or Kerry to consider voting Green to increase the numbers. (Does anyone really care if a republican or democrat is in the office again?)

Think of current governmental politics as a binary computer. 01010101010 right? Well, democrat republic democrat republican - there's only so much two national parties will (and are willing) to do. Throwing another political party in the ring will definitely improve the overall system of US government.

I'd like to hear more opinions on this subject (and bear with me if I don't respond to anything you might say, I've been having computer issues as of late.)



Citizens of other countries are also encouraged to participate. The person in the Oval Office is someone who affects the world, and not just the United States!

(Links)

http://www.greenpartyus.org
http://www.greens.org
http://www.greenparty.org


One day I'll have something cleverer here.
that's more clever, not cleverer [Sygnal]
From the dictionary: clev·er - adj.
clev·er·er, clev·er·estBOO-YAH Sygnal!

Back to the left where I belong

Last edited by mathmetalmonk, 30-Apr-2004 at 19:54.
Edit reason: Added part about other countries' citizens and links
#1  
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Posts: 25/31
(30-Apr-2004 at 20:12)
I am inclined to agree. As it is to many people let the party pick what they are supposed to think and how they should vote. To me this system has made people docile and tools of the status quo. Throwing additional parties into the mix may not stop ppl from being sheep but it sure would alow for more variety. Of course, global anarchy could have its perks also.
#2  
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(Posted as wtfX)
Posts: 322/1958
(30-Apr-2004 at 20:21)


The americans -need- Bush to be voted out of office at all costs, I think. Kerry is the only other competitor, so all votes should go to him.
#3  
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Posts: 28/31
(30-Apr-2004 at 20:24)
Kerry is a push over and would allow Eurpoean leaders to have their way all the time. Honestly I think regardless of whom is elected things will be horrible.
#4  
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(Posted as wtfX)
Posts: 326/1958
(30-Apr-2004 at 20:31)


Quote:
(Originally posted by Sirus tD)

Kerry is a push over and would allow Eurpoean leaders to have their way all the time. Honestly I think regardless of whom is elected things will be horrible.
That would work for me, being a european myself
But I have to say that listening to europe would be a better idea then infuriating them, and ignoring them
#5  
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Posts: 31/31
(30-Apr-2004 at 20:43)
I agree that it would be better to at least listen to the opinions of other nations. But I fear that Kerry would be more of a puppet that would bend over backwards for his unnamed Euro allies.

Last edited by Sirus tD, 30-Apr-2004 at 20:44.
#6  
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Posts: 44/77
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(30-Apr-2004 at 20:43)


Who needs government? i want anarchy!

*starts a riot in the christian forum*


Devoted Disturbed, Kittie, KoRn, Wumpscut, Slayer, Rammstein fan.

Made UT's Top 25 Women list ...damn right I'm proud!

come keep me company
#7  
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(Posted as WillowWalker)
Posts: 188/1119
Donated $5.00
(30-Apr-2004 at 23:55)
There will never be enough people to make them win, seems to be to "radical" for some conservatives.

*goes off to join Party Animal in a riot*
#8  
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(Posted as wtfX)
Posts: 327/1958
(30-Apr-2004 at 23:57)


Quote:
(Originally posted by Sirus tD)

I agree that it would be better to at least listen to the opinions of other nations. But I fear that Kerry would be more of a puppet that would bend over backwards for his unnamed Euro allies.
True. America should not be Europe's puppet, but don't worry, I am pretty sure that will never happen. The american people and Kerry's puppeteers won't allow it (no matter what you say, I am convinced both Bush and Kerry are puppets to others, as all persons in such powerful positions are, knowingly or not).
Either way, get Bush out, because you can at least be sure that relations with America won't weaken with Kerry. I think Kerry simply becoming president will be nice for the Europeans to see.
#9  
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Posts: 21/37
(01-May-2004 at 00:06)


Quote:
(Originally posted by wtfX)

The americans -need- Bush to be voted out of office at all costs, I think. Kerry is the only other competitor, so all votes should go to him.
I agree with you entirely. I want Bush out of the White House as much as anyone who doesn't support him.

But I can't turn my back on the fact that by voting Democrat I'm essentially putting the same people in charge as if I were voting Republican. They're the exact same political party with just a view differences here and there.

Now... as far as I'm concerned, when poeple complain that voting for the Green party is voting for the Republicans, I get upset. Even some of the most intelligent people I know have succumbed to the Democrats' cry that "A vote for Nader is a vote for Bush!"

I don't want Ralph Nader to be President.
I don't want George Bush to be President.
I don't want John Kerry to be President.

All I want is stability in a nation where there is none. And what I mean my stability is that one term the Administration may work to change one thing about the country and then four years later the other Adminstration is seeking to change it back. We'll never get anywhere that way. We need to force the country to be more stable. This can be established through numerous political parties. When Republicans and Democrats are elected government officials only, we are bickering with ourselves over the same things year after year, and we will never come to a conclusion.

I'm voting Green because I don't want to vote for the same political party. I don't want to vote for the Democratic-Republicans anymore, at least not until we have more than two (though understand that it is one) political parties in this nation.

And so I urge all voting-age Americans that read this to consider voting for the Greens. We learned from our last Presidential election that our voting system doesn't really work. Those that claim you're throwing away your vote only say this because they don't understand the political process (electoral college! blah! it's use it outdated and illogical). Again I urge you to vote for the Greens - Nader (if he is indeed the candidate) won't win, but you're vote won't be wasted if the Greens get 10% of the national vote (it might be 15% now, it was only 5% at the last presidential election, but this number was increased just a short time before the Greens got their 5%. How can I love this country when I see acts like this?)

I'm also waiting to see RoyalAssassin3's response to this. Haha... he reminds me of this kid in my sociology class I was always debating with.


One day I'll have something cleverer here.
that's more clever, not cleverer [Sygnal]
From the dictionary: clev·er - adj.
clev·er·er, clev·er·estBOO-YAH Sygnal!

Back to the left where I belong
#10  
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Posts: 423/737
(01-May-2004 at 00:07)


As a hard core Republican I pray every night that more people vote for the Green Party USA.
#11  
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(Posted as wtfX)
Posts: 328/1958
(01-May-2004 at 00:16)


Quote:
(Originally posted by mathmetalmonk)

I agree with you entirely. I want Bush out of the White House as much as anyone who doesn't support him.

But I can't turn my back on the fact that by voting Democrat I'm essentially putting the same people in charge as if I were voting Republican. They're the exact same political party with just a view differences here and there.

Now... as far as I'm concerned, when poeple complain that voting for the Green party is voting for the Republicans, I get upset. Even some of the most intelligent people I know have succumbed to the Democrats' cry that "A vote for Nader is a vote for Bush!"

I don't want Ralph Nader to be President.
I don't want George Bush to be President.
I don't want John Kerry to be President.

All I want is stability in a nation where there is none. And what I mean my stability is that one term the Administration may work to change one thing about the country and then four years later the other Adminstration is seeking to change it back. We'll never get anywhere that way. We need to force the country to be more stable. This can be established through numerous political parties. When Republicans and Democrats are elected government officials only, we are bickering with ourselves over the same things year after year, and we will never come to a conclusion.

I'm voting Green because I don't want to vote for the same political party. I don't want to vote for the Democratic-Republicans anymore, at least not until we have more than two (though understand that it is one) political parties in this nation.

And so I urge all voting-age Americans that read this to consider voting for the Greens. We learned from our last Presidential election that our voting system doesn't really work. Those that claim you're throwing away your vote only say this because they don't understand the political process (electoral college! blah! it's use it outdated and illogical). Again I urge you to vote for the Greens - Nader (if he is indeed the candidate) won't win, but you're vote won't be wasted if the Greens get 10% of the national vote (it might be 15% now, it was only 5% at the last presidential election, but this number was increased just a short time before the Greens got their 5%. How can I love this country when I see acts like this?)

I'm also waiting to see RoyalAssassin3's response to this. Haha... he reminds me of this kid in my sociology class I was always debating with.
You bring up very good points, really you do. In Holland (not saying we are best) we have lots of political parties and after all votes are tallied and all parties got their slice of the 150-piece pie, they make a coalition of groups to total at least 76 'pieces', so they can still pass things (incase you were wondering if anything could ever happen with so many factions seemingly in power).
It works fine, there is someone to vote on for everyone.

I think America would benefit from that too, but I do not think that now is the time to advocate this and start supporting it. In four years another election will be held, and if the opposition isn't Bush, then it is worth "losing" the election over if you can prove your point that way, because it is the way of the future!

However, now is too much of a pivotal time in history, and I think Bush is the worst person to take care of it! And therefore I still urge you to vote for Kerry. Please, in four years when this has all calmed down (because Kerry will be more reasonable in his asking for UN help,) and then, with it all more peaceful, pick -then- as the time for your protest. But not now.

Last edited by wtfX, 01-May-2004 at 00:20.
Edit reason: I wanted to write an edit message so it looks like I paid attention to spelling and grammer, and so I look less newbish
#12  
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Posts: 22/37
(01-May-2004 at 00:18)


Quote:
(Originally posted by Party Animal)

Who needs government? i want anarchy!

*starts a riot in the christian forum*
I'd prefer an anarchistic society to live in... but it's impossible. Maybe if we didn't have races it could work. If we were all gray (a loving neutral color I believe) we'd be peaceful enough to coexist in a lawless world.

But our differences is what fuels our hate which fuels transgressions against our own species.

Also, while I dislike quoting a band to prove a point, take into consideration the song by the Dead Kennedys "Where do you draw the line?" Jello Biafra has it right when he sings:
"Seems like the more I think I know
The more I find I don't
Every answer opens up so many questions
Anarchy sounds good to me
Til someone asks 'Who'd fix the sewers?'
Or 'Would the rednecks just play king of the neighborhood?'
How many liberators really want to be dictators?
Every theory has its holes when real life steps in."

Anarchy is a real possibility, but not on this world.

Has anyone here ever read Ursula K. LeGuin's novel "The Dispossessed?" Very good novel describing the confliction between a "democratic" capitalist society dwelling on a planet and the socialist anarchists living on the moon that orbits it.


One day I'll have something cleverer here.
that's more clever, not cleverer [Sygnal]
From the dictionary: clev·er - adj.
clev·er·er, clev·er·estBOO-YAH Sygnal!

Back to the left where I belong
#13  
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(Posted as wtfX)
Posts: 330/1958
(01-May-2004 at 00:25)


Quote:
(Originally posted by mathmetalmonk)

I'd prefer an anarchistic society to live in... but it's impossible. Maybe if we didn't have races it could work. If we were all gray (a loving neutral color I believe) we'd be peaceful enough to coexist in a lawless world.

But our differences is what fuels our hate which fuels transgressions against our own species.

Also, while I dislike quoting a band to prove a point, take into consideration the song by the Dead Kennedys "Where do you draw the line?" Jello Biafra has it right when he sings:
"Seems like the more I think I know
The more I find I don't
Every answer opens up so many questions
Anarchy sounds good to me
Til someone asks 'Who'd fix the sewers?'
Or 'Would the rednecks just play king of the neighborhood?'
How many liberators really want to be dictators?
Every theory has its holes when real life steps in."

Anarchy is a real possibility, but not on this world.

Has anyone here ever read Ursula K. LeGuin's novel "The Dispossessed?" Very good novel describing the confliction between a "democratic" capitalist society dwelling on a planet and the socialist anarchists living on the moon that orbits it.
I agree, one thing is for sure, we are not ready for anarchy, and most likely we never will be. And if ever we start plunging into it, then we should make sure not to start with the only remaining superpower in this world!
#14  
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Posts: 117/620
(01-May-2004 at 00:27)
Quote:
You bring up very good points, really you do. In Holland (not saying we are best) we have lots of political parties and after all votes are tallied and all parties got their slice of the 150-piece pie, they make a coalition of groups to total at least 76 'pieces', so they can still pass things (incase you were wondering if anything could ever happen with so many factions seemingly in power).
It's similar in israel, however it makes things stressful before and after the elections, each side has to please his parties of the coalition and many times that isn't good.

But about the Green Party, from what i see here, in the cities that they have gotten control, they are running them perfectly and certainly improving the area. It would be good if we had had some honest people in the government instead of corrupted politicians. So i'd vote for a yes
#15  
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Posts: 23/37
(01-May-2004 at 00:32)


Quote:
(Originally posted by Marduk III)

As a hard core Republican I pray every night that more people vote for the Green Party USA.
I appreciate your prayers then, even though it seems they're misdirected (and I'm atheist).

I do have one problem with Republicans. How can you be one?

Statistically the Republicans have only done things for this country that increase the wealth of the wealthy, give corporations more freedom to rip off the world, and thus increase the economy of America (at the expense of its citizens).

I can't sit idly by and watch as this party rapes the world. That's only my opinion on republicans, even though I view them as the same as the democrats.

Quote:
(Originally posted by wtfX)

I think America would benefit from that too, but I do not think that now is the time to advocate this and start supporting it. In four years another election will be held, and if the opposition isn't Bush, then it is worth "losing" the election over if you can prove your point that way, because it is the way of the future!

America would definitely benefit. And now is not the time to advocate this, you're right. For me, the time to advocate my political party was four years ago, when I was at the ripe age of eighteen and just a few months before gotten my voter's registration.

But I'm not going to buy into that "voting for the lesser of two evils" bullshit when we've got our answers lying within other small parties. The mere fact that there were a lot of people in support of the Green party during the last election yet Ralph Nader was still DENIED the right to debate alongside George Bush and Al Gore. He wasn't even allowed inside the building! How can I love this country when I see this kind of bullshit? How could I vote for a republican or a democrat when its their ways that are prohibiting the party I am affiliated with from getting anywhere?

We, as Americans, are at a pivotal point in history and I think the next election will show it. I'm wagering that the country will once again be split 50/50 on the votes for democrats and republicans alone.

What kind of democracy is that? (Granted we're not real democracy and by all purposes neither were the Greeks)


One day I'll have something cleverer here.
that's more clever, not cleverer [Sygnal]
From the dictionary: clev·er - adj.
clev·er·er, clev·er·estBOO-YAH Sygnal!

Back to the left where I belong
#16  
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Posts: 24/37
(01-May-2004 at 00:40)


Quote:
(Originally posted by MeeniMyniMo)

But about the Green Party, from what i see here, in the cities that they have gotten control, they are running them perfectly and certainly improving the area. It would be good if we had had some honest people in the government instead of corrupted politicians. So i'd vote for a yes
Yes there are certainly a lot of Greens that have been elected in California. I believe the fact that most Californians have first-hand experience with pollutants and the trouble they've caused has led to this increase in concern for the environment. If only the rest of the country would understand.

People have to realize that I'm not asking for a Green president, only a nationally-recognized Green party... one that is given matching funds from the federal government, and the right to debate publicly with the two candidates from the other party.

Personally, in terms of the debate, I think that the Democrats and Republicans are scared of the fact that Ralph Nader is smarter than them. He would really prove to this country that differences between the Republicans and Democrats are slight and insignificant on a global scale. We need someone like him in the White House. I don't think it will be him... but his name is at least well-known enough that he'll be no unknown contender this election.


One day I'll have something cleverer here.
that's more clever, not cleverer [Sygnal]
From the dictionary: clev·er - adj.
clev·er·er, clev·er·estBOO-YAH Sygnal!

Back to the left where I belong
#17  
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(Posted as wtfX)
Posts: 332/1958
(01-May-2004 at 00:40)


Quote:
(Originally posted by mathmetalmonk)

America would definitely benefit. And now is not the time to advocate this, you're right. For me, the time to advocate my political party was four years ago, when I was at the ripe age of eighteen and just a few months before gotten my voter's registration.

But I'm not going to buy into that "voting for the lesser of two evils" bullshit when we've got our answers lying within other small parties. The mere fact that there were a lot of people in support of the Green party during the last election yet Ralph Nader was still DENIED the right to debate alongside George Bush and Al Gore. He wasn't even allowed inside the building! How can I love this country when I see this kind of bullshit? How could I vote for a republican or a democrat when its their ways that are prohibiting the party I am affiliated with from getting anywhere?

We, as Americans, are at a pivotal point in history and I think the next election will show it. I'm wagering that the country will once again be split 50/50 on the votes for democrats and republicans alone.

What kind of democracy is that? (Granted we're not real democracy and by all purposes neither were the Greeks)
I understand. I truly don't know what I would do in your position, but I have to stress how much I think that Bush should not be the one leading your great country (yes it is a great country) in such a time of your history. I am more worried about that then about getting Nader in the same building as the two main contestants right now. Best case scenario: Kerry gets voted into office but sees the great support for the Greens, causing him to pass laws so they can make coalitions in Dutch (and many other nations!) style. Worst case scenario: Greens get very little votes, but just enough to keep Kerry out of office. Bush reigns supreme, and Kerry and his team start really hating the Greens because they keep messing up their election.
I think no one knows for sure what to do...
#18  
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Posts: 971/2231
Donated $14.28
(01-May-2004 at 01:16)


No, I don't think we need the green party involved. I don't even agree with parties at all, it should just be on a person's views. Not because they share the same views with all these other people. I say before you vote you should learn the exact views of the canidates, then vote on that basis.


The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
#19  
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Posts: 856/1865
(01-May-2004 at 03:07)


Yes, depending on the views of the green party. Democratic party is slowly slipping into the conservative zone, so at this rate third-parties like the Green party will be the only true liberal parties. And I am quite liberal. I disagree largely with Kerry and Bush, so yes, I think more votes should go to the Green party and other independent parties (like Nader!).

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