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(Posted as dourag0n)
Posts: 4/15 (03-Jan-2003 at 20:22) |
Tell me something... have any of you MET God? I think not. You may have, in a dream, in your head. People who are so bent on forcing everyone to believe in God seem like people who would end up leading a cult later in life, brainwashing everyone they meet to have their beliefs.
Also, those same people are like the first Europeans to set foot on this continent. They forced the inhabitants at the time to change their beliefs and accept Jesus as their Savior. CONVERSION. If I go to hell for not believing in God, SO BE IT. Most of the other people here who don't believe probably feel the same way. My mind won't be changed. |
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Posts: 6/31
(03-Jan-2003 at 20:29)  |
Ok, here we go. Saying there is not proof of the Most High is denying Him. What about in court? If you say there is no proof of someone doing something, yeah, that is saying that they more than likely didn't do it. Now, you all can believe what you want, as I said, but I strongly urge you to think about what you are doing. And yes, I do believe in Revelation, but, think about it, the VAST majority of it, is metaphors and such. Representational.
"I'm having a ball in life, and I don't believe god exists. So wouldn't that prove you wrong?" Is it not obvious that I am talking about later, in judgement? "No they wouldn't. Okay, so, according to these people, they heard a voice and they wrote some stuff down. Isn't that like a mental illness nowadays? Hearing voices and doing what they tell you to do?" Ok, I fail to see your arguement here. God didn't neccessarily say "Write this and this down", duh. They died because they believed in Christ, they followed Him around, watched all his miracles, and died because of it. They could have easily denied what they wrote and what they believed and continued to live. I wouldn't call Christ a "voice". If it isn't obvious, I was refering to the new testament, which has very few "voices". And, obviously there is no problem with hearing voices unless you seem extremely insane or something, because, was not Joan of Arc considered a saint, even though almost all of her actions were based on her council, voices she heard? She was judged a saint by people THESE DAYS. Obviously you must show other signs to be judged as having a mental illness. I have had prayers answered directly my friend. Some on the spot, right then and there. So you can believe what you want, but I'm not saying what you believe is right. The Lord my God pulled me through the summer, and has shown me signs and miracles, and so, you can believe what you want, but I'm always gonna know, that I'm right. And you may say, "Well, when I was a christian, I prayed, and none of my prayers were answered" or something. but guess what? The Bible also has an answer for that. "For the Lord God answers the prayers of the righteous". Obviously you did not believe, considering your position now, so you were not righteous, therefore, your prayers were not answered. Now tell me, why are you here, to tell me that there is no God? What good will that do you? I have a credible book to back me up, and you have what, yourself? You can argue that my book is not credible, and neither are my personal experiences (although both ARE credible) but, you have no proof. "For all scripture is the breath of God". The Bible is real, whether you like it, or believe it, or not. I am here to attempt to convert, to teach you that you still have a chance. And according to what I have heard, atheists, well, as an atheist, think. If you do not believe in God, and there is a God, where will you be? At judgement you would be in trouble. And, if you do believe in God, and there turns out to be no god (although there is a God, this is hypothetical), then you won't have anything to worry about. Although, believing for those reasons is selfish and the Most High will see right through it, believing is a lot safer than not. |
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(Posted as Digi Kid Izzy)
Posts: 482/4024 (03-Jan-2003 at 21:07)  |
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(Originally posted by Hero of Time)
Ok, here we go. Saying there is not proof of the Most High is denying Him. What about in court? If you say there is no proof of someone doing something, yeah, that is saying that they more than likely didn't do it. Now, you all can believe what you want, as I said, but I strongly urge you to think about what you are doing. And yes, I do believe in Revelation, but, think about it, the VAST majority of it, is metaphors and such. Representational. "I'm having a ball in life, and I don't believe god exists. So wouldn't that prove you wrong?" Is it not obvious that I am talking about later, in judgement? "No they wouldn't. Okay, so, according to these people, they heard a voice and they wrote some stuff down. Isn't that like a mental illness nowadays? Hearing voices and doing what they tell you to do?" Ok, I fail to see your arguement here. God didn't neccessarily say "Write this and this down", duh. They died because they believed in Christ, they followed Him around, watched all his miracles, and died because of it. They could have easily denied what they wrote and what they believed and continued to live. I wouldn't call Christ a "voice". If it isn't obvious, I was refering to the new testament, which has very few "voices". And, obviously there is no problem with hearing voices unless you seem extremely insane or something, because, was not Joan of Arc considered a saint, even though almost all of her actions were based on her council, voices she heard? She was judged a saint by people THESE DAYS. Obviously you must show other signs to be judged as having a mental illness. I have had prayers answered directly my friend. Some on the spot, right then and there. So you can believe what you want, but I'm not saying what you believe is right. The Lord my God pulled me through the summer, and has shown me signs and miracles, and so, you can believe what you want, but I'm always gonna know, that I'm right. And you may say, "Well, when I was a christian, I prayed, and none of my prayers were answered" or something. but guess what? The Bible also has an answer for that. "For the Lord God answers the prayers of the righteous". Obviously you did not believe, considering your position now, so you were not righteous, therefore, your prayers were not answered. Now tell me, why are you here, to tell me that there is no God? What good will that do you? I have a credible book to back me up, and you have what, yourself? You can argue that my book is not credible, and neither are my personal experiences (although both ARE credible) but, you have no proof. "For all scripture is the breath of God". The Bible is real, whether you like it, or believe it, or not. I am here to attempt to convert, to teach you that you still have a chance. And according to what I have heard, atheists, well, as an atheist, think. If you do not believe in God, and there is a God, where will you be? At judgement you would be in trouble. And, if you do believe in God, and there turns out to be no god (although there is a God, this is hypothetical), then you won't have anything to worry about. Although, believing for those reasons is selfish and the Most High will see right through it, believing is a lot safer than not. 1.Wow, the man must love you if he answers your prayers directly. 2.I was like you. Hell, the thought of there not being a god scared the hell out of me. I always thought that god would care for me, no matter what. I can understand that you've had prayers answered almost directly, that's what it seemed like to me too. Then I start getting these vibes, I start checking out guys, I start, well, being gay. Suddenly, I start hating myself. God says he hates gays, and I don't want him to hate me, I won't be gay. I was a suicidal wreck. I finally stop believing, I felt it was the only way to save myself. I started questioning what I saw, instead of blindly following it. I don't need no lord or god to save me, I have my online big bro's. They are the ones that have kept me sane, not some half baked nut in the sky with a beard. If ther somehow is a god, and I refused to believe in him, too bad for me. I'll deal with it then and there. I don't think he exists, but I at least I dotn' call you all fools for believing so, unlike what converters call atheist. Don't come here to convert, you won't be getting any converts here. Izzy is back and older than ever! |
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Posts: 155/328
(03-Jan-2003 at 21:33)  |
Sorry to tell you this, but gays are looked down upon by more than just some people that go to church. You won't escape it by not believing in God anymore. Also I would like to know which religion it is whose God hates gays... While it is a shame that some members of a church might treat you poorly for who you are.. that is probably representative of only the select few who hurt you. Not the church they belong to.
Than again, even if you are told that God hates gays... Why should that stop you from believing in God? In your shoes I would simply see these others as wrong and follow my own feelings. "We shall show mercy, but we shall not ask for it." |
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Posts: 97/331
(03-Jan-2003 at 22:32)  |
I dont believe in gods, but i believe in spirits, forces. I just listen a report on a mummy, !
 ! lol, the guy who wrote the first mummy story (little thing coming back to live with toilet paper on him!) wrote his story when the mummy of a priest who tried to put in the egyptian religion the fact that anyone mummyfied could come back to life thousands years ago...  Luke44 - Lord Of MySelf |
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Posts: 54/183
(04-Jan-2003 at 00:55) |
Digi Kid Izzy: Why do you think God "hates gays"? I don't agree with you on that. He may hate same-gender sexual activity, but he would never hate the person doing it!
Zero Genesis - 126465022 Part of the UT Christian Community
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(Posted as Muzzle)
Global Moderator Posts: 556/3863 (04-Jan-2003 at 05:45)  |
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(Originally posted by ZeroGenesis)
Digi Kid Izzy: Why do you think God "hates gays"? I don't agree with you on that. He may hate same-gender sexual activity, but he would never hate the person doing it! Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it. Some people are like Slinkies- absolutely useless, but always fun to push down stairs! Last edited by Azure Dragon, 04-Jan-2003 at 05:46. |
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(Posted as Digi Kid Izzy)
Posts: 485/4024 (04-Jan-2003 at 06:10) |
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(Originally posted by jago1)
well i just have to say ......those who dont believe in god dont deserve to live......well i would call them LOW LIVES.....lower beings with no understanding....hope the Gods show mercy on your 'petit' souls ..... Izzy is back and older than ever! |
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(Posted as dourag0n)
Posts: 5/15 (04-Jan-2003 at 06:25) |
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well i just have to say ......those who dont believe in god dont deserve to live......well i would call them LOW LIVES.....lower beings with no understanding....hope the Gods show mercy on your 'petit' souls .....
Also, what is with, "the GODS?" You say you beleive in one God. Maybe either a person just grabbing attention, or a fool who is saying two things, basically the opposite. Deal with it that you can't change everyone's mind and that not all people agree with you. |
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(Posted as Muzzle)
Global Moderator Posts: 559/3863 (04-Jan-2003 at 06:26) |
Thanks for that highly intelligent comment Jago. That greatly hinders the case your religous friends make.
Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it. Some people are like Slinkies- absolutely useless, but always fun to push down stairs! |
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Posts: 42/42
(04-Jan-2003 at 06:51)  |
Thank you Captain Obvious...
What is it, exactly, that you hoped to acheive with that wonderful, wise, & witty insight, jago1? I'm not paranoid... I'm just observant. |
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Posts: 3/24
(04-Jan-2003 at 08:49) |
tell you the truth...
if u don't believe fine with me...just don't ask "WHY?" during Judgement Day i am in this world along with other brothers and sister just to tell everybody who i believe in and thats it... and to tell you...here is what i believe in... you and i are sinners...we commited sin (anything that is wrong)...stealing and lying... we are all suppose to die just as today if u commit a crime, you get thrown in jail or you get killed... BUT...one major BUT...  your Creator...God Himself...came down to this place call earth and humbly die for you...YOU...why did he die for you? To save you from death...to save you from not able to see God...His Name was Jesus...why did He come down to this horrible place...BECAUSE HE LOVES YOU...EVERYBODY...does he love the wrongs we do...no...HE LOVES US FOR WHO WE ARE...period... well...it would been the end and all..but no...to prove that He was God...He rose again the third day...and prove that yes...He was man...but also...He was GOD. that is why you can't found his bones anyway on this face of the earth (i think the Jews could have shot down Christian by showing the body of Jesus)... well you might say you didn't do sin...BUT...have you ever hate someone...i did...that is murder...have you look at a man or woman lustfully...i did...that is commit adultery...have you want that hot porshe on the street...i did...that is coveting...BUT ALL THIS DOESN'T MATTER ANYMORE...WHY?!?!?!?! CUZ JESUS CHRIST DIED FOR YOU AND YOU AND YOU...period...He created you but you fell...and He didn't want you to fall...He picked you up and not let you just stand there...He hug you and embrace you and lead you home many of us would say we don't need him...we can conquer life...easy...NO PROBLEM...but why is there a longing in your heart to lean on something or someone...WHY?...cuz GOD put it there... I thought that i could conquer life too...to the point of almost commiting suicide...i couldn't take it anymore...seriously...i was down so down... Why would you wanna debate if he real of not...why come to this forum and debate...why...WHY?!...because you care...(or you got nothing better to do)  God is real and i believe in Him...if you want to believe in Him...pray and ask Him for His help...if not, fine...i don't want you to hear you complain to anybody during the last day... by the way...faith is trusting and believing something or someone you can't see, hear, or touch...faith is love...love is faith...ponder about it...do you have faith? it takes faith to believe God is real... TO ALL MA BROS AND SIS...LIFE IS HARD BUT REMEMBER HE IS ALWAYS BY YOUR SIDE LEADING THE WAY... |
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your Creator...God Himself...
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have you ever hate someone...i did...that is murder...have you look at a man or woman lustfully...i did...that is commit adultery...have you want that hot porshe on the street
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Why would you wanna debate if he real of not...why come to this forum and debate...why...WHY?!...because you care...(or you got nothing better to do)
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well i just have to say ......those who dont believe in god dont deserve to live......well i would call them LOW LIVES.....lower beings with no understanding....hope the Gods show mercy on your 'petit' souls .....
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(Posted as Digi Kid Izzy)
Posts: 487/4024 (04-Jan-2003 at 09:42) |
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(Originally posted by ton4052)
tell you the truth... if u don't believe fine with me...just don't ask "WHY?" during Judgement Day
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i am in this world along with other brothers and sister just to tell everybody who i believe in and thats it...
and to tell you...here is what i believe in... you and i are sinners...we commited sin (anything that is wrong)...stealing and lying... we are all suppose to die just as today if u commit a crime, you get thrown in jail or you get killed... BUT...one major BUT... your Creator...God Himself...came down to this place call earth and humbly die for you...YOU...why did he die for you? To save you from death...to save you from not able to see God...His Name was Jesus...why did He come down to this horrible place...BECAUSE HE LOVES YOU...EVERYBODY...does he love the wrongs we do...no...HE LOVES US FOR WHO WE ARE...period...
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well...it would been the end and all..but no...to prove that He was God...He rose again the third day...and prove that yes...He was man...but also...He was GOD. that is why you can't found his bones anyway on this face of the earth (i think the Jews could have shot down Christian by showing the body of Jesus)...
[quote] well you might say you didn't do sin...BUT...have you ever hate someone...i did...that is murder...have you look at a man or woman lustfully...i did...that is commit adultery...have you want that hot porshe on the street...i did...that is coveting...BUT ALL THIS DOESN'T MATTER ANYMORE...WHY?!?!?!?![quote] Your point would be? SOme of us don't care, since we don't believe that everything we do is sin. [quote] CUZ JESUS CHRIST DIED FOR YOU AND YOU AND YOU...period...He created you but you fell...and He didn't want you to fall...He picked you up and not let you just stand there...He hug you and embrace you and lead you home[quote] No, that is a lie. If that was true, I would still believe in him today. You know who was the one that hugged me and lead me home on the rock road called suicide, my online big bro.
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many of us would say we don't need him...we can conquer life...easy...NO PROBLEM...but why is there a longing in your heart to lean on something or someone...WHY?...cuz GOD put it there...
I thought that i could conquer life too...to the point of almost commiting suicide...i couldn't take it anymore...seriously...i was down so down... [quote] Why would you wanna debate if he real of not...why come to this forum and debate...why...WHY?!...because you care...(or you got nothing better to do) [quote] We have nothing else do to do
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God is real and i believe in Him...if you want to believe in Him...pray and ask Him for His help...if not, fine...i don't want you to hear you complain to anybody during the last day...
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by the way...faith is trusting and believing something or someone you can't see, hear, or touch...faith is love...love is faith...ponder about it...do you have faith?
it takes faith to believe God is real... TO ALL MA BROS AND SIS...LIFE IS HARD BUT REMEMBER HE IS ALWAYS BY YOUR SIDE LEADING THE WAY... Izzy is back and older than ever! |
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Posts: 159/289
(04-Jan-2003 at 09:48)  |
Quote:
(Originally posted by Digi Kid Izzy)
Umm, he isn't god, he is the son of god, according to the bible. (I know some stuff, GASP) ------- ------- Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc. Jesus n : a prophet of the first century (circa 8 BC - 29 AD); to Christians he was both God and man--the Messiah sent to save the human race from the sin it inherited through the Fall of Man [syn: Jesus, Jesus of Nazareth, Jesus Christ, Christ, Savior, Saviour, Good Shepherd, Redeemer] "If War is state sponsored Terrorism, then isnt Taxation state sponsored Robbery?"
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Posts: 56/183
(04-Jan-2003 at 11:27) |
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It also takes you being what he wants, a non homosexual. Guess what? He doesn't exists. I have love. I have hope. And I had to earn it all.
Okay Digi Kid Izzy, let me tell you one thing: You say you were once a Christian, and now you have a major hate-complex going against God because you THINK he hates you because you are bi. He doesn't. He loves you for who you are, regardless of whether you are or not, he just doesn't WANT you to be bi. If you're going to hate God, at least get your facts straight. God views same-gender sexual relations as a perversion, but he does not hate those who indulge in such a thing. Your posts also reflect that you feel that you have TRIUMPHED over God merely because you have achieved what you feel to be love and hope - even though you don't believe in him - which he wanted you to have in the first place, granted, not in the same way, but that is irrelevant in this case. This is what I see from the opinions you have posted so far. It is fairly obvious that your being bi is the ONLY core reason that you are anti-God, and whether you like it or not, those reasons ar unfounded... Maybe sometime in the future you will reconsider, maybe not, I may never know myself, I just hope you do. Zero Genesis - 126465022 Part of the UT Christian Community
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(Posted as Muzzle)
Global Moderator Posts: 562/3863 (04-Jan-2003 at 13:55) |
Quote:
(Originally posted by ZeroGenesis)
Okay Digi Kid Izzy, let me tell you one thing: You say you were once a Christian, and now you have a major hate-complex going against God because you THINK he hates you because you are bi. He doesn't. He loves you for who you are, regardless of whether you are or not, he just doesn't WANT you to be bi. If you're going to hate God, at least get your facts straight. God views same-gender sexual relations as a perversion, but he does not hate those who indulge in such a thing. Your posts also reflect that you feel that you have TRIUMPHED over God merely because you have achieved what you feel to be love and hope - even though you don't believe in him - which he wanted you to have in the first place, granted, not in the same way, but that is irrelevant in this case. This is what I see from the opinions you have posted so far. It is fairly obvious that your being bi is the ONLY core reason that you are anti-God, and whether you like it or not, those reasons ar unfounded... Maybe sometime in the future you will reconsider, maybe not, I may never know myself, I just hope you do. I think that is going to far to make a generalisation about Izzy. You dont know him, and to make a broad generalisation about him is totally wrong. And I ask you. Is it God that views homosexual acts as perversions, or is it simply your church's leaders? Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it. Some people are like Slinkies- absolutely useless, but always fun to push down stairs! |
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What is up with the endless arguing here? This will solve nothing and do nothing... *sigh*
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I challenge your Most High because there is no proof of his existance because he causes millions to be persecuted upon.
Everything causes people to be persecuted upon... law, enviroment, politics, economy, money, society, etc... Do you look down upon those as well? -=-=-=-=-=-=-
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What a lot of you religious people seem to do is treat us atheist like if we are lost. Don't you see that you believe in a book that there has never been proof for, or nobody has given this proof? I feel that you people are blind.
There is no solid proof for the bible except on the accounts of Jesus' existance and the spread of the apostles. For all we know it could've been historic fiction or a biography that was exaggerated. So, what's your point? How is it blindness to believe it may be a story with metaphoric meaning, or it could be literal scripture. Please, I'd like to know how am I blind to consider different things?
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Tell me something... have any of you MET God? I think not. You may have, in a dream, in your head. People who are so bent on forcing everyone to believe in God seem like people who would end up leading a cult later in life, brainwashing everyone they meet to have their beliefs.
-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-
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Ok, here we go. Saying there is not proof of the Most High is denying Him. What about in court? If you say there is no proof of someone doing something, yeah, that is saying that they more than likely didn't do it.
Just because there is no evidence, doesn't mean there is no God. Denying God would be denying God. I take my definitions from something called a dictionary.
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Now, you all can believe what you want, as I said, but I strongly urge you to think about what you are doing. And yes, I do believe in Revelation, but, think about it, the VAST majority of it, is metaphors and such. Representational.
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"For all scripture is the breath of God". The Bible is real, whether you like it, or believe it, or not.
b) Contradiction right there. You say it's real. Didn't you just say parts of Revelation were metaphorical? Before I fully rebutt, which scripture is the breath of God? Please tell me exactly which: translation, publication, type, revision, and title is the breath of God? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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Sorry to tell you this, but gays are looked down upon by more than just some people that go to church. You won't escape it by not believing in God anymore. Also I would like to know which religion it is whose God hates gays... While it is a shame that some members of a church might treat you poorly for who you are.. that is probably representative of only the select few who hurt you. Not the church they belong to.
Than again, even if you are told that God hates gays... Why should that stop you from believing in God? In your shoes I would simply see these others as wrong and follow my own feelings. Things are misinterpreted. Laws, politics, etc... But, it could also be based on the time period. During the time when the bible was written, sex was more sacred and more respected than it was now, and only done to create life. What seems right to some thousands of years ago may be wrong today. In some rural cultures, poeple consider rape a good thing for it keeps the population going. |
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Posts: 7/31
(04-Jan-2003 at 19:51) |
"b) Contradiction right there. You say it's real. Didn't you just say parts of Revelation were metaphorical?"
Ok, I'm mainly going to argue with this. Revelation is what John saw when he was exiled. It was a vision type thing. It has a meaning, but some of it may not exactly be clear, some things mean other things, and are not completely literal, you have to take deep thought into them, they mean something and are truthful. Why do you try to pull me from my God? Answer me that. If there is no god, as you think, then what harm will it do for me to believe in Christ? I won't be judged if there is no god, so I have nothing to worry about. Whereas, I actually have a reason. Conversion is important to my religion, for my God loves all. He cares about you all. And Izzy, the Lord my God does not hate bis. He hates the sins everyone commits. He does not hate the person. If you fight your sin, and ask God to forgive you and help you, He will forgive you, and He always loves you. AznBlade, listen, you must not have read my earlier posts, because I have yet to see anyone come up with an arguement that rivals it AT ALL. IT IS A HISTORICAL FACT, THAT WITNESSES OF CHRIST AND WRITERS OF THE BIBLE DIED FOR WHAT THEY BELIEVED AND WROTE!!!!!! Why would they do such a thing if it were not true? Would they die for lies they wrote? That does not make sense AT ALL!!!!! Why would they die to trick people? There would be no point! Christ died for you, and if you wish to refuse His love, then...I feel sorry for you. Christ is amazing. And some people here, they say, they thought being a christian would make them happy, and life easier and such. Well, it doesn't, look at how much we are persecuted for believing Christ is God. We have to stand up to them, and do our best to make them come to the truth. And by the way, someone was talking about how Christ is merely the Son of God, not God himself. He is God, in human form. Part of the Trinity, 3 that are 1, Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Just as you have a mind, heart and body. They are seperate but the same. The Father is like the mind, the Son is like the body, and the Holy Spirit is like the heart. I will pray for you all. And, I can't remember if anyone said it or not, but did any of you say that for arguing with others beliefs, us christians deserve death? I know it was said in a different topic, so, I'll just talk a little about it here. "To me, life is Christ, and death is gain" Paul said this. We cannot accept other religions' beliefs, because our God wishes for us to convert them, because He wants as many people in heaven as possible, but only sinless and holy things can enter heaven, which we are not. And you may argue, "Well, why doesn't God just change it then, so that anything can enter?", I tell you this, why would God want to be with evil? So we must be perfect to enter, and He came to earth as Christ to die for you, and He took your sins to the cross with Him, and He took them upon Himself, and He died, so that you might live, and enter heaven. For since the beginning of time, God-the divine and eternal creator- has made his invisible qualities visible, through creation itself, and so much more, so that men are WITHOUT EXCUSE (this is a bible verse near the beginning of Romans that I altered slightly with my words). You have no excuse to deny the Lord. You make it sound like He should come when you say come, and do what you tell Him to, and not question you. I am sorry, but He is not a pet. He is Lord, why should He do what you tell Him to? He answers prayers because He cares for us, but, espicially, if you challenge Him, why would He show Himself to you, He wants you to have faith, which is believing in what you can't see. But He has made Himself visible, and still you refuse to see. Who are you, to darken the Lord's council with words without knowledge (another slightly altered verse, from Job 40 I believe)? You make it sound like you are so superior, well, at judgement day, if you do not change, you will be the most inferior of all things. Lower than a rat, it will be more fortunate than you, it ceases existence, whereas, you will be tortured forever, and I will pray that you will change your ways. You are just a human, what can a human do? Not much. You have fake love and faith and hope. I myself was once close to suicide. I knew I would never do it though. God pulled me through. I prayed for Him to show me a sign, that He wanted me to remain on earth. He showed me the sign, within the amount of time I asked Him too. I knew I couldn't commit suicide, cause that would be a sin, and I could not repent from it, because I would be dead. I knew that He would pull me through, and He did. I will pray for you all. |
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