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Posts: 205/1971
(17-Jun-2007 at 10:17)


Language (Non-English)

Quote:
Our languange rule specificly says, that you must provide translation to foreign words. If translation is not provided, you will get warned.
the above is a quote from a warning that Drizzt got after posting a Chinese character without posting a translation...

yet, countless times i have seen posts get warned for Non-English when the post clearly has a translation beside it... i dont understand what the problem is with a non-english phrase, as long as it is translated... especially if it allows such posting in the rules, as Lord Menchalior said, and from the rule itself below:

Quote:
Person and entity names in their original languages are allowed, as well as short expressions, provided an English translation is included.

Tax collectors are a valid military target - chobham
#1  
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(17-Jun-2007 at 11:45)


Translations must be easily confimed by moderators and acurate.

If Drizzt would like to challenge this warning then we have a thread dedicated for such an event that he is aware of.

Edit: Upon review I found no English translation in his post for the character, assuming I did it properly.

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"
R.I.P. InJustice!
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EWE-tah

Last edited by Saint Sinner, 17-Jun-2007 at 11:52.
Edit reason: see above
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(Posted as Starfriend)
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(17-Jun-2007 at 12:03)


Also keep in mind that it's just relatively recently that we started being more lax on the non-English rule, to allow stuff as long as an easily verifiable translation is provided.


"If You Fall, Ill Be There"
- Floor


Last edited by Starfriend, 17-Jun-2007 at 12:04.
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(17-Jun-2007 at 12:06)


Quote:
Edit: Upon review I found no English translation in his post for the character, assuming I did it properly.
no there wasn't in his post... its jsut the warning message on his WP page reminded me of the translated posts that have been warned...

Quote:
Also keep in mind that it's just relatively recently that we started being more lax on the non-English rule to now allow stuff as long as an easily verifiable translation is provided.
fair enough then

Tax collectors are a valid military target - chobham
#4  
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(18-Jun-2007 at 02:49)


Originally Posted by Drizzt:
I should know, my brother's name was supposed to be 力.
He clearly states that it is a name. You can say names in other languages...can't you? And people can't really translate names into english. I mean Andres may have a name in english that it is like (Andrew), but Andrew is not Andres. And shouldn't be forced into a translation.


Quote:
If Drizzt would like to challenge this warning then we have a thread dedicated for such an event that he is aware of.
Why should he have to when the mod is clearly in the wrong?

I am the darkness in your life, I am the light
I am the end of your tunnel, I am the beginning of your future
I am the end, your end. I am the path to your salvation.

Your bane, or your hope. You decide.
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(18-Jun-2007 at 04:38)


Re: Language (Non-English)

Originally Posted by Brightbane: View Post
Why should he have to when the mod is clearly in the wrong?
Because that is his account not yours or anyone else posting in this thread. I also seem to remember people complaining about warnings of other people was warnable... unless the new lax rules stopped that... or my old memory is giving me bad info.

Never Forget

September 11, 2001
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(Post has been warned)
(18-Jun-2007 at 04:48)


Quote:
Because that is his account not yours or anyone else posting in this thread. I also seem to remember people complaining about warnings of other people was warnable... unless the new lax rules stopped that... or my old memory is giving me bad info.
But i'm not complaining about him getting warned, I'm complaining about the mods being to arrogant to correct a simple mistake that they made. Even when it is pointed out to them in a non aggressive way.

I am the darkness in your life, I am the light
I am the end of your tunnel, I am the beginning of your future
I am the end, your end. I am the path to your salvation.

Your bane, or your hope. You decide.

Last edited by Brightbane, 18-Jun-2007 at 04:50.
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(18-Jun-2007 at 05:27)


Re: Language (Non-English)

Originally Posted by Brightbane: View Post
He clearly states that it is a name. You can say names in other languages...can't you?
Yes, so how do you "say" that one?



Quote:
And people can't really translate names into english. I mean Andres may have a name in english that it is like (Andrew), but Andrew is not Andres. And shouldn't be forced into a translation.
We are talking about a symbol here, its a bit different.

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"
R.I.P. InJustice!
Hit me up on Facebook

EWE-tah
#8  
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(18-Jun-2007 at 05:42)


Ooh nice, somebody already made this thread.

In a PM convo with LM, he told me that a translation must be included within the post. I think this is very redundant; anybody that's reading the thread would already know what it means if it was translated previously, especially if it was in the same conversation.

Both Hopey and Acadian already gave a translation, which is exactly why I didn't give one myself.

Here's Acadian's

https://forums.utopiatemple.com/showthread.php?p=1582036

s o u l f i r e
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(Posted as Starfriend)
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(18-Jun-2007 at 06:43)


Re: Language (Non-English)

Originally Posted by Brightbane: View Post
He clearly states that it is a name. You can say names in other languages...can't you? And people can't really translate names into english. I mean Andres may have a name in english that it is like (Andrew), but Andrew is not Andres. And shouldn't be forced into a translation.
I disagree, for all we know it could've meant "shithead". We still have to be able to verify it easily, and it's so much harder when things are written in kanji.


Originally Posted by Drizzt: View Post
Both Hopey and Acadian already gave a translation, which is exactly why I didn't give one myself.
Acadian's post was 17 posts before yours. Hopeys was one before that. In addition to that they were made about eleven days apart. Had you made your post just after theirs I'd have accepted your argument, but under these circumstances we simply cannot.


"If You Fall, Ill Be There"
- Floor


Last edited by Starfriend, 18-Jun-2007 at 06:46.
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(18-Jun-2007 at 17:21)


You think that its hard to read back 17 posts? You can even skip the ones that aren't about Acadian's tattoo, and honestly, it only takes a minute or two to read everything (the posts that matter, that is).

Eleven days apart doesnt mean much either. Just read up to the top of the page (or maybe previous page if you arent reading 40 a page like me). As I said, anybody that actually wants to know what I'm talking about wouldn't have a hard time at all going back to someone else's translation.

If you want to be a nitpick, maybe you should warn yourself for saying "kanji" (too bad its impossible). There isn't even a translation for that in this thread.

Kanji = Japanese for "chinese word"


Oh, and, have to stick this in-- It's MUCH easier to translate stuff when its in its "kanji" form. Just copy and paste into a translator. Translators don't translate spelled out chinese/japanese words

s o u l f i r e

Last edited by Drizzt, 18-Jun-2007 at 17:26.
Edit reason: clear up diction
#11  
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(Posted as Starfriend)
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(18-Jun-2007 at 20:55)


Re: Language (Non-English)

Originally Posted by Drizzt: View Post
You think that its hard to read back 17 posts? You can even skip the ones that aren't about Acadian's tattoo, and honestly, it only takes a minute or two to read everything (the posts that matter, that is).

Eleven days apart doesnt mean much either. Just read up to the top of the page (or maybe previous page if you arent reading 40 a page like me). As I said, anybody that actually wants to know what I'm talking about wouldn't have a hard time at all going back to someone else's translation.
Which defeats the whole "being easily verifiable". Which is why we have that requirement.

Originally Posted by Drizzt: View Post
It's MUCH easier to translate stuff when its in its "kanji" form. Just copy and paste into a translator. Translators don't translate spelled out chinese/japanese words
That's assuming that everyone has support for those characters in their browser. LM didn't, so I had to show him a screenshot to make him understand what I was talking about.


"If You Fall, Ill Be There"
- Floor

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(19-Jun-2007 at 03:42)


Re: Language (Non-English)

Originally Posted by Starfriend: View Post
Which defeats the whole "being easily verifiable". Which is why we have that requirement.
Right.. what'd I spend my whole last post trying to tell you?

Quote:
That's assuming that everyone has support for those characters in their browser. LM didn't, so I had to show him a screenshot to make him understand what I was talking about.
Better than spelling the words out, which instead of hard for some people, would be impossible to verify.

s o u l f i r e
#13  
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(Posted as Iris Hope)
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(20-Jun-2007 at 00:38)


Sorry to interrupt, but i got to say , there is no way a "shithead" , or even a more crude "****tard" or anything like that can be represented by a single chinese word. It doesn't work that way.. To give such a meaning you will need at least 2 individual words to make the phrase.

I personally feel that while that single word has its meaning (where the meaning has been given in previously posts very clearly), and from his posts it is clear that that word is a name of his brother, which is true. But yea..

-= Il y a toujours espoir :: There Is Always Hope =-
~ Nothing is as real as a dream. The world can change around you, but your dream will not.
Responsibilities need not erase it. Duties need not obscure it.
Because the dream is within you, no one can take it away. ~

This too, shall pass.. You will not be just a memory.
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(20-Jun-2007 at 06:36)


Re: Language (Non-English)

Originally Posted by Iris Hope: View Post
Sorry to interrupt, but i got to say , there is no way a "shithead" , or even a more crude "****tard" or anything like that can be represented by a single chinese word. It doesn't work that way.. To give such a meaning you will need at least 2 individual words to make the phrase.
Yeah, and how exactly are we who don't know the language supposed to know that?


"If You Fall, Ill Be There"
- Floor

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(Posted as Iris Hope)
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(20-Jun-2007 at 19:15)


well, i understand you wouldn't if you do not speak the language, but it is not a different character posted. That character has been posted before his post, and its meaning explained. I believe you mentioned my post directly above his? So anyone reading it will see mine, and the explanation given, and know that meaning.

Seeing that the posts above weren't wrong, which i think implies that it is acceptable and the meanings given were correct and given, how can that same character, used without a combination with any other characters, that is clearly stated to be his brother's name, mean any different? Even in English meanings of the words don't really change unless combined with something else (tho please do correct me if i am wrong).

-= Il y a toujours espoir :: There Is Always Hope =-
~ Nothing is as real as a dream. The world can change around you, but your dream will not.
Responsibilities need not erase it. Duties need not obscure it.
Because the dream is within you, no one can take it away. ~

This too, shall pass.. You will not be just a memory.
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(20-Jun-2007 at 19:54)


Re: Language (Non-English)

Originally Posted by Iris Hope: View Post
well, i understand you wouldn't if you do not speak the language, but it is not a different character posted. That character has been posted before his post, and its meaning explained. I believe you mentioned my post directly above his? So anyone reading it will see mine, and the explanation given, and know that meaning.
And seeing just how long time had passed between your post was made and Drizzt's, I hardly think it's unreasonable to not remember if a single chinese character has or hasn't been posted before. Right? Right.


"If You Fall, Ill Be There"
- Floor

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(21-Jun-2007 at 16:58)


Quote:
And seeing just how long time had passed between your post was made and Drizzt's, I hardly think it's unreasonable to not remember if a single chinese character has or hasn't been posted before. Right? Right.
If this was an actual real time conversation you might've had a point here. But this is a forum, where posts, long time ago or not, are displayed and can be easily read. And our conversation in the pictures thread was fairly short before I threw in the already defined Chinese character.

s o u l f i r e
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(21-Jun-2007 at 21:20)


Re: Language (Non-English)

Originally Posted by Drizzt: View Post
If this was an actual real time conversation you might've had a point here. But this is a forum, where posts, long time ago or not, are displayed and can be easily read. And our conversation in the pictures thread was fairly short before I threw in the already defined Chinese character.
Do you expect everyone, people who had read the older posts in question and those who hadn't, to read back over a dozen posts to see if that was the character YOU posted about? Get real.

You got warned, several people were involved in the decision that you should be warned. Now please quit hogging the thread with your complaint. If you wish to complain about it, you know exactly which thread to do it in. Let me tell you straight up though that what has been said here will be said there as well.


"If You Fall, Ill Be There"
- Floor


Last edited by Starfriend, 21-Jun-2007 at 21:24.
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(21-Jun-2007 at 21:36)


Quote:
Do you expect everyone, people who had read the older posts in question and those who hadn't, to read back over a dozen posts to see if that was the character YOU posted about? Get real.
I frequently read back up to two pages (40 posts) if I am confused about something, and if I don't find what I am looking for I will usually just ignore it. I wouldn't be surprised if that was what other people did.

Quote:
Now please quit hogging the thread with your complaint.
So sorry that the multitudes of other complaints that have been brought up in this thread have been ignored.

I am the darkness in your life, I am the light
I am the end of your tunnel, I am the beginning of your future
I am the end, your end. I am the path to your salvation.

Your bane, or your hope. You decide.

Last edited by Brightbane, 21-Jun-2007 at 21:37.
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