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View Poll Results: Women should be permitted to breastfeed...
in the pool. 4 11.11%
on the pool deck. 23 63.89%
off the pool deck (AKA Not at all). 9 25.00%
Who voted? Voters: 36
You may not vote on this poll

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Posts: 1311/1971
(22-Nov-2008 at 23:34)


But the difference is, RA3, breasts and penises are not the same level of "indecency"... breasts aren't even genitals.

I will agree that IF you can go to a bathroom and do it, it's like yeah socially speaking you should be expected to... coz it can make people feel uncomfortable. But if there is not a bathroom or a mothers' room nearby, then there isn't really a problem with it. Like, it shouldn't be illegal, but should be considered to be something you should avoid if it's not too much hassle.

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(24-Nov-2008 at 00:17)


Re: Breastfeeding in the Pool

Originally Posted by Spectre19: View Post
I will agree that IF you can go to a bathroom and do it, it's like yeah socially speaking you should be expected to... coz it can make people feel uncomfortable.
Horse hockey!

The last place I want the mother of my child feeding him/her is in a questionably hygenic bathroom!

I'm also not 'turned on' in the least bit by a woman breastfeading. Anyone who is merely is a sick fetisht and not a normal human being who is at awe when confronted with REAL LIFE.

To be sure, breastfeeding is an affirmation of the grounding of humanity to the sense that while we are superior in so many ways to the mammals around us we are still part of this whole evolutionary experiment.

When I see a woman discreetly breastfeeding in public, I'm left with the sense that we are indeed among the 'chosen' species and do indeed have responsibilities. I'm agnostic, but seeing a human mother breastfeed her child makes me feel closer to a possible creator than any sermon in a cathedral could ever.

I think it's demeaning to women to expect them to 'excuse themselves' to the toilets to be allowed to naturally feed their children. Unless RA3 supports some sort of massive public works project to create 'mother' rooms in all public facilities ... oh ... I can't go on.

RA3 needs to get laid so that he can get over his issues with boobs. Love ya man, but the testoserone buildup is showing.

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Last edited by Michael1, 24-Nov-2008 at 00:22.
#22  
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Posts: 1313/1971
(24-Nov-2008 at 00:58)


Quote:
Horse hockey!

The last place I want the mother of my child feeding him/her is in a questionably hygenic bathroom!

I'm also not 'turned on' in the least bit by a woman breastfeading. Anyone who is merely is a sick fetisht and not a normal human being who is at awe when confronted with REAL LIFE.

To be sure, breastfeeding is an affirmation of the grounding of humanity to the sense that while we are superior in so many ways to the mammals around us we are still part of this whole evolutionary experiment.

When I see a woman discreetly breastfeeding in public, I'm left with the sense that we are indeed among the 'chosen' species and do indeed have responsibilities. I'm agnostic, but seeing a human mother breastfeed her child makes me feel closer to a possible creator than any sermon in a cathedral could ever.

I think it's demeaning to women to expect them to 'excuse themselves' to the toilets to be allowed to naturally feed their children. Unless RA3 supports some sort of massive public works project to create 'mother' rooms in all public facilities ... oh ... I can't go on.

RA3 needs to get laid so that he can get over his issues with boobs. Love ya man, but the testoserone buildup is showing.
Well I mean, I'm not saying it's a big deal... just saying it might make people feel uncomfortable... especially if the mother tries to make a big deal out of it (and it happens - there are women who breast feed their babies in public JUST BECAUSE THEY CAN and it really shits me up the fucking wall. It's like homosexuals kissing in public - I don't shove my tongue down a girl's throat in public, so why would gays want to passionately make out in the middle of a shopping centre? BECAUSE THEY CAN </rant>). Discreetly is fine, and discreetly includes using a mothers' room if there is one available, although I will agree now that you point it out, probably not a good idea in a public bathroom. But I think it is socially expected that a mother doesn't yell out "I'D BETTER FEED MY LITTLE TYKE" and then flop her breast right out, daring anybody to comment.

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(24-Nov-2008 at 03:21)


I breastfed my kids. I always covered my baby up but that was more to keep the baby calm than appeasing other peoples fear of it. They were made to feed a child, not as a sex toy. If people have a problem with it, then its something that they have to deal with. Breastfeeding is the healthiest option for an infant. Not only is it better for their immune system while feeding them formulas can potentially cause of life long allergies. Plus, it is better for the mother. It helps shrink the uterus after giving birth. It lowers the chances of breast cancer and it helps them lose weight.

Plus, there are chemicals that are leached from plastic bottles, so that option isn't very smart either. Unless you want to spend an arm and a leg on glass bottles which are a pain in the ass to find.

Now on the pool question...

If it was my own family pool, sure why not. If it was a public pool, I wouldn't do it IN the pool because some kids pee all over the place. If they want to sit on the side, thats their choice.

To RA3: You go eat on a shitter than some nasty ass has been on and see how wonderful you feel.

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Last edited by mdmflutterby, 24-Nov-2008 at 03:30.
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(24-Nov-2008 at 05:27)


Re: Breastfeeding in the Pool

Originally Posted by mdmflutterby: View Post
To RA3: You go eat on a shitter than some nasty ass has been on and see how wonderful you feel.
I was not advocating that she rub her tits all over the toilet seats before putting them in her baby's mouth.

Quote:
I think it's demeaning to women to expect them to 'excuse themselves' to the toilets to be allowed to naturally feed their children. Unless RA3 supports some sort of massive public works project to create 'mother' rooms in all public facilities ... oh ... I can't go on.

RA3 needs to get laid so that he can get over his issues with boobs. Love ya man, but the testoserone buildup is showing.
Why do you have to make thing personal man? I have no problem with boobs or public breast feeding. I'm merely pointing out that some people have legitimate concerns about such activities in public.

As for "mother's rooms" that's ridiculous. It isn't demeaning or in any way unhealthy to excuse yourself to go to the bathroom. Heck parents need to do it often enough when their babies crap their diapers anyway. Do you look down on people who leave to clean up their kid? I expect not. Do babies die in massive numbers from simply being exposed to bathroom air?

In any event, don't demonize those on the otherside of the issue as having some sort of fetish. The mere sight of a booby is enough to turn on a lot of guys judging from the popularity of the Girls gone Wild series.


Quote:
I will agree that IF you can go to a bathroom and do it, it's like yeah socially speaking you should be expected to... coz it can make people feel uncomfortable. But if there is not a bathroom or a mothers' room nearby, then there isn't really a problem with it. Like, it shouldn't be illegal, but should be considered to be something you should avoid if it's not too much hassle.
That's all I'm saying. And I've never heard of a public pool where there was no bathroom or changing area.
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(24-Nov-2008 at 05:45)


Quote:
That's all I'm saying. And I've never heard of a public pool where there was no bathroom or changing area
Another point though: take for example, if a woman is shopping, just her with her baby... sure, it's not too hard to go to a mothers' room if need be to breastfeed. But at a pool it's different. She is there with the whole family or maybe with some of her friends who are there with their children as well. Seems kinda odd if she has to excuse herself from that and go off to the bathroom if she needs to breastfeed... as I said, as long as she respects that it might make other randoms uncomfortable and does it discreetly.

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(24-Nov-2008 at 06:00)


Re: Breastfeeding in the Pool

Originally Posted by Royal Assassin3: View Post
I was not advocating that she rub her tits all over the toilet seats before putting them in her baby's mouth.
Do you even have any idea how many germs are in a bathroom? The don't even recommend you leaving your toothbrushes out on the bathroom counter because of this.

But seriously, if my baby is crying because its hungry I'm not going to care whether you or anyone else is comfortable. The baby is priority one. Tits were made to feed babies. If you or anyone else get aroused by it or feel ashamed because of it, you really need serious therapy.

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#27  
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Posts: 1315/1971
(24-Nov-2008 at 06:22)


Quote:
Do you even have any idea how many germs are in a bathroom? The don't even recommend you leaving your toothbrushes out on the bathroom counter because of this.

But seriously, if my baby is crying because its hungry I'm not going to care whether you or anyone else is comfortable. The baby is priority one. Tits were made to feed babies. If you or anyone else get aroused by it or feel ashamed because of it, you really need serious therapy.
It's an attitude like this that fucks it all up though

"I don't give a fuck about social boundaries, I'm gonna loudly and proudly flop my tits out whenever my baby starts to show any possible sign of hunger, even though I can feed my kid discreetly without comprimising his safety or health in any way"

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#28  
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(24-Nov-2008 at 09:04)


Hm, I didn't realize this was such a polarizing issue when I first started reading about it. Nor do I really know my own opinion since I've never been in a situation to experience something like this.

A couple of thoughts though.
-If a woman breastfed her baby in a public place, what is to stop someone else from leering at her? As far as I can tell, nothing. Should it happen? Obviously not. Could it happen? Yes. Just as breastfeeding could be uncomfortable for someone else, someone else staring could be uncomfortable for the mother.
-A woman could also breastfeed her baby in the middle of a church service but would it make people very uncomfortable? I honestly think it would. Is there any safety reason why she shouldn't? No, probably not. Not the same thing exactly, but another case of "can, but doesn't have to".
-A woman could be at a pool with a breastfeeding infant and may have other kids that she wants to keep an eye on. Going to the bathroom wouldn't be as feasible an alternative then
-Could a baby be fed with a cup instead of a bottle? I'll admit, I'm not in the know about this.

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(24-Nov-2008 at 20:03)


Re: Breastfeeding in the Pool

Originally Posted by Spectre19: View Post
It's an attitude like this that fucks it all up though

"I don't give a fuck about social boundaries, I'm gonna loudly and proudly flop my tits out whenever my baby starts to show any possible sign of hunger, even though I can feed my kid discreetly without comprimising his safety or health in any way"
If people don't care about what's best for the baby and what the mother wants, why the fuck should she give a fuck for some pervy person feeling uncomfortable because they're religious programing makes the human form wrong instead of beautiful. When in fact, their "god" is the one that created it. Humans are born nude, its humankind and their need to be controlling made clothing because their ashamed of themselves and others.

And on a side note: If the baby can't eat in public, then shouldn't it be prohibited that all people not be able to eat in public? IMO I find it more disgusting that parents let their already overweight child gorge themselves on fast foods and candy. (shrugs)

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#30  
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(24-Nov-2008 at 20:59)


Ok, I'm going to go through this post-by-post. I'm probably going to be trimming some quotes, so if you feel that I wrongly annotated your post, please speak up. Also, I'm going to try to deal with the health and safety posts before I deal with the nudity and general morality of breastfeeding in public, so if I've missed your post, it's probably because I ran out of time.

I also found an article on the original incident.

Originally Posted by Syke: View Post
No, women should probably not be allowed to breastfeed in a public pool. The level of chlorine contamination I have to imagine would be detrimental to the health of the infant, not to mention the other dubious substances that inevitably find their way into pools. On the deck seems perfectly acceptable to me, although you might want to put up a sign recommending women shower before hand if they've previously been in the pool just to avoid any residual chemical traces on the feeding area. Maybe this level of precaution is unwarranted, but barring a study proving it so I think it makes sense enough to be justified.
Having worked with infants in the pool, they most certainly do swallow water. The level of chlorine in in the pool should be between 1.0 and 5.0 ppm, or between 1.0 and 5.0 mg/L. The average level is 2.5 mg/L of free chlorine. This has been recognized as not harmful for the immersion of infants, and infants most certainly do swallow water; the residual chlorine on a mother's nipples is very unlikely to make a difference. Keep in mind that this is exclusively regarding chlorine, and not other potential contaminants.

I do agree with your attitude that caution should be the default unless proven otherwise, however.


Originally Posted by Sabbie: View Post
IN the pool? It would seem that nobody is stupid enough to do that. I wouldn't even take a small baby into a pool with all those other annoying kids splashing around and bumping into you and the fragile tiny baby, let alone try to breastfeed it.
My facility offers "Family Swim" times where the only patrons allowed in the pool are parents with children and children with parents. We occasionally make exceptions, but the overarching guideline is that this is a time that it should be calm in order to allow for parents to take infants in the pool.

This is also why we suspend normal swimming lessons in order to have "Parented Dippers" for children between 6mo and 3 years

Originally Posted by Spectre19: View Post
Aside from that... yes, it's pretty fucking stupid to take an infant into a swimming pool, so it shouldn't be allowed (and I mean under law, as opposed to policy of the pool - it is a safety issue, and parents should be made to be responsible for their children's safety)
I would disagree with you here. The only time I have seen infants in the pool is when they are being held by their parents. Our policy is that if your child is less than 7 years old, you must be within arms reach of them, to a maximum of a ##:## ratio of parents to children. If any of these children cannot swim, they must be in a PFD unless the ratio is ##:##. While this policy is regularly disregarded by parents for toddlers and above, I have never seen a parent leave an infant alone anywhere near the pool. A ##:## ratio is quite safe, and being exposed to water from a young age can be beneficial to children later in life, when learning how to swim.

Originally Posted by Roxtin: View Post
Regardless of if she was in the pool or just around the pool, there are morons abound. Any time the mother decides to feed in public she is paying more attention to the baby (as she should) and less to the morons around her. At any point she could be hit by any said moron which could potentially harm the baby.

In this "hypothetical situation", I wouldn't have asked the mother to leave the public pool - just simply asked her to move a little further away from the high traffic areas immediately around the pool for the safety of her child.
Here you've stated both my concern and my solution. I have no doubts about the concern of parents for the safety of their child, and I personally believe in the right to breastfeed publicly. Knowing the possibility of a rowdy group of kids to be disruptive, however, I would personally suggest a move to the most convenient safe location, which would usually be the edge of the pool, in the most shallow region.

I also happen to be very protective of small children, so if I see a group of teens acting unsafely around one, I immediately eject them from the pool.

Originally Posted by Stewie: View Post
In the pool should not be allowed as there's hygene issues as well as risks to the child. If, however, a mother decides to go to a public pool, and needs to breastfeed her child, there shouldn't be a problem as long as she is away from the pool.
Now for the non-chlorine contaminants.

The statistics that I have been quoted by my supervisor are as follows:

1) Immediately after entering a pool, if you have not showered, you lose approximately 20 000 skin cells
2) The average infant's bottom has 1.6g of fecal matter present
3) The average adult's bottom, no matter how fastideous, has 0.16g of fecal matter present

The average level of free chlorine in the pool is not sufficient to kill fecal chloroforms, many organisms causing vomiting, and no level of chlorine is sufficient to neutralize cryptosporidum. While we, the lifeguarding staff, are bloody well paranoid about preventing foulings, and keeping the pool clean (A fouling turns into 3-5 hours of pay for 1-2 hours of work; we like foulings ), we can only shock (super-chlorinate, to approx. 20 ppm) the pool if fecal matter or vomitus large enough to recover is present. Therefore, there is almost certainly some ambient fecal matter floating around the pool. Lovely, isn't it?

Keep in mind, however, than an infant that has been immersed in the water has already been exposed to all of this before their mouth even touches the nipple. Breastfeeding doesn't create any additional risk of exposure.

Originally Posted by Michael1: View Post
Most pools don't allow food and drink in the pool. If everyone can have a snack on the pool deck I see no reason breastfeeding shouldn't be allowed there. If food and drink is banned entirely from the pool deck, were it me, I'd be finding a different place to sun and swim.
We generally disallow food on the pool deck, due to the following factors:

1) It's an indoor pool; no summer snacking here
2) Our filtering system is great at filtering material that floats, but removing matter that sinks is much more difficult. A hefty portion of food sinks.
3) There isn't really room for it. The pool deck extends, at a maximum, 2m away from the pool itself.

However, drinks are generally permitted, assuming they're in a plastic container. In addition, human breast milk is typically sterile, with the exception of a few notable diseases (HIV & Hepatitis). In the former, however, mothers with HIV are discouraged from breastfeeding at all, and in the latter, the prohibition of open sores would prevent the disease from being transmitted. Therefore, breast milk isn't about to be a reason to close the pool.


Originally Posted by StarOwl: View Post
Hm, I didn't realize this was such a polarizing issue when I first started reading about it.
Surprising, isn't it?


Originally Posted by StarOwl: View Post
-A woman could be at a pool with a breastfeeding infant and may have other kids that she wants to keep an eye on. Going to the bathroom wouldn't be as feasible an alternative then
-Could a baby be fed with a cup instead of a bottle? I'll admit, I'm not in the know about this.
In reverse order: an infant cannot be expected to drink from a cup. In addition, given that it would have to be a plastic cup (Glass is not permitted on pool deck), it wouldn't be changing anything.

As to the initial comment, if a mother wanted to breastfeed her child, chances are she wouldn't be able to adequately supervise any other children she might have with her. I would most likely have any children under her supervision sit on the edge as a safety measure. However, keep in mind I have never seen a parent with an infant and other children all at once. I have seen families where one parent was responsible for the infant and the other parent took charge of the older children, but that's another situation entirely.

In short: If you are taking an infant to the pool, there is no medical reason why breastfeeding shouldn't be permitted, as there is no additional risk involved. There is a risk of being smacked by other patrons, which is why I would recommend that the mother move to a safer location, which may or may not be out of the pool.


Originally Posted by Michael1: View Post
I think it's demeaning to women to expect them to 'excuse themselves' to the toilets to be allowed to naturally feed their children.
I'm currently employed by the YMCA-YWCA. This is probably where some of the reasoning is coming from.

Finally, to the public exposure argument; in Ontario, it is legal for women to go topless wherever a man can go topless; it is the same in NY state. While I can't find a court ruling, Wikipedia and a number of new pages believe it is similarly legal in Manitoba. I'm going to have to track this down, because while I doubt it will ever come up, you never know.

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(24-Nov-2008 at 21:20)


Re: Breastfeeding in the Pool

Originally Posted by Royal Assassin3: View Post
Why do you have to make thing personal man? I have no problem with boobs or public breast feeding. I'm merely pointing out that some people have legitimate concerns about such activities in public.
My apologies. Everyone seems to think we agree so much that when something like boobs come up and we disagree (I love boobs, and think fit women should be encouraged to bare them even if not breastfeeding) I just can't resist the urge to make a big public spectacle of it...

Quote:
As for "mother's rooms" that's ridiculous. It isn't demeaning or in any way unhealthy to excuse yourself to go to the bathroom.
If there are 'nursing' rooms, great for the facility. Kudos to them. But no ... a mother shouldn't have to go to the bathroom to breastfeed her child.
Quote:
Do babies die in massive numbers from simply being exposed to bathroom air?
There's a huge difference from being exposed to bathroom air and eating in a bathroom. I'm sure you would dream of eating in a bathroom, would you? Then why should a baby? Have you seen say, the bathroom at a public beach? I'm afraid to take a leak in those places much less have a meal.

Quote:
In any event, don't demonize those on the otherside of the issue as having some sort of fetish. The mere sight of a booby is enough to turn on a lot of guys judging from the popularity of the Girls gone Wild series.
Have you seen a woman nursing in public? Most wear 'nursing bras' and unless you're all up in the babies grill you're not getting much of a view.

Quote:
That's all I'm saying. And I've never heard of a public pool where there was no bathroom or changing area.
I think a more private portion of the pool deck would be just fine. I understand your sentiment to some extent ... in a culture in which women going topless isn't the cultural norm we don't really want women flashing their boobs overtly, but it's my experience that women nursing their babies generally try to be discreet about and don't just sit around with their boobs hanging out in case junior gets hungry. Generally mothers have a motherly instinct while tending to their infants and aren't trying to be sexually provacative. I say let her do her thing, turn away and give her a bit of privacy. She probably would appreciate that...

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#32  
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(24-Nov-2008 at 23:12)


Breastfeeding is okay in most case. just dont go around exposing half a boob to everyone. But a pool is not okay. There's other children and its not safe generally.

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(25-Nov-2008 at 02:51)


Quote:
If people don't care about what's best for the baby and what the mother wants, why the fuck should she give a fuck for some pervy person feeling uncomfortable because they're religious programing makes the human form wrong instead of beautiful. When in fact, their "god" is the one that created it. Humans are born nude, its humankind and their need to be controlling made clothing because their ashamed of themselves and others.
Whether you like it or not, breasts are a sexual symbol. In our (and most other) culture, you don't walk around flashing sexual symbols unnecessarily. So if you can be discreet about it, there is no point in having an attitude of "Y SHUD I B DISCRETE ITS LYKE TOALLY NATURL LULZ" and then making some bullshit excuse like "nobody cares for the baby's needs" even though the baby's needs don't depend on you overtly showing off your daggers...

Quote:
If the baby can't eat in public, then shouldn't it be prohibited that all people not be able to eat in public?
I was eating a burger at a bus stop one day. Some stupid old hag comes up to me and goes "how dare you eat in public?" or some such bullshit... it was odd =\

Quote:
I would disagree with you here. The only time I have seen infants in the pool is when they are being held by their parents. Our policy is that if your child is less than 7 years old, you must be within arms reach of them, to a maximum of a ##:## ratio of parents to children. If any of these children cannot swim, they must be in a PFD unless the ratio is ##:##. While this policy is regularly disregarded by parents for toddlers and above, I have never seen a parent leave an infant alone anywhere near the pool. A ##:## ratio is quite safe, and being exposed to water from a young age can be beneficial to children later in life, when learning how to swim.
I still don't think an infant should be in a public swimming pool, where there are always dipshits running around and jumping into the pool and stupid crap like that.

But anyway.

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(25-Nov-2008 at 04:52)


Re: Breastfeeding in the Pool

Originally Posted by Narth: View Post
Breastfeeding is okay in most case. just dont go around exposing half a boob to everyone.
But its ok for girls to wear bikini's that are so skimpy they expose themselves? Gotta love the double standard hypocrisy of society.

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#35  
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(03-Jan-2009 at 21:40)


Off the pool deck should mean in the change room. Other than that, I believe that women should not breastfeed in public eye, or at least in an obvious place (like in restaurants.) It's common decency to those around who do not want to see such a thing. Although if it's done with some sort of concealment (like wrapping the baby in a blanket) it would be okay. Just looking over a a baby sucking away is disturbing. Mabey if I ever have a child I'd see this differently, but at the moment, please be discreet.
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(13-Jan-2009 at 23:18)


In the actual pool is bad, for alot of reasons...one being if i can sit in the middle of the pool and drink a soda(which im sure is the case) why should the baby be allowed to breastfeed? That isnt fair, and this is a PUBLIC pool, not the babys personal pool nor the mothers... Next and probably more importantly breast milk is a bodily fluid, I dont want your bodily fluids swimming around in a pool that Im swimming in, sorry. Lastly It probably isnt safe for the baby, Chlorine, urine, ect I wouldnt want my baby sucking on a tit under thosoe circumstances...

On the deck is fine. In a restaurant is fine, pretty much most places is fine, not IN a pool though.

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(17-Jan-2009 at 00:45)


Re: Breastfeeding in the Pool

Originally Posted by Chillin: View Post
Next and probably more importantly breast milk is a bodily fluid, I dont want your bodily fluids swimming around in a pool that Im swimming in, sorry. Lastly It probably isnt safe for the baby, Chlorine, urine, ect I wouldnt want my baby sucking on a tit under thosoe circumstances...
As for body fluids, you mention in your next sentence that there's urine in the water, not to mention sweat and probably saliva. It's already a cocktail of body fluids, so there's really no reason to add one more to the mix. The safety to the baby has already been addressed (and I was initially wrong about it myself). I do agree that babies should not eat wherever adults are not allowed to eat, but I don't understand why you'd say that babies should not be allowed to eat in the pool as opposed to saying that adults should be allowed to eat in the pool (as long as it is a recreational pool and not a pool where people go to swim laps or play waterpolo, in which case it would be inappropriate for kids to be there anyway).

As for morals (which I know you didn't argue against/for, I'm just making a general statement) women should be allowed to bare their breasts wherever men are allowed to, which should contain all public areas; something about freedom of expression.

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(17-Jan-2009 at 01:00)


One thing to say is... I'm fairly certain the pool people don't particularly like bodily fluids such as urine. Most try to avoid that. That'd be a reason to avoid milk as another to add to the mix.

Not saying that's necessarily my view on the breastfeeding part, but just wanted to point that out.

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(23-Jan-2009 at 06:02)


Thats what I meant..its pretty hard to stop someone from pissing in the pool, as you really cant tell....but you CAN tell if someone is breastfeeding in the pool, so you might as well stop it.

I could care less if a woman wants to whip her tits out for whatever reason, trust me, Im all for tits being in the open. But I'm just saying feeding a baby (or anyone eating) IN a pool shouldn't be allowed.

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