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Posts: 16/20
(03-Apr-2003 at 02:50)
Raze

Raze --

It seems raze is not getting the offense bonus as it should for some reason. We just had several failed raze attacks where Angel calculated more than enough mod offense to break, but the attack failed. Then immediately after, another guy sent significantly less mod op and succeeded with a traditional attack...

I can only see a couple possibilities for this.
Either Angel is not calculated raze properly, but I checked its figures and it does indeed add up the numbers correctly...
Or raze is not getting the bonus it used to get within Utopia itself. The magnitude of the difference in the calculated raze attack vs the successful traditional suggests that raze is not getting ANY bonus at all currently.

Note that my statement of "significantly less mod op" was on the same target, after accounting for troop losses from the failed raze attempts.

Has anyone else noticed this?

Last edited by o a t h, 03-Apr-2003 at 02:51.
#1  
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(Posted as fireme)
Posts: 81/440
(03-Apr-2003 at 03:12)


when i raze it caculates it right for me.
#2  
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Posts: 17/20
(03-Apr-2003 at 03:51)
Right, angel calculates it alright but what I'm saying is that the mod op angel is showing does not seem to be what is really sent.

Have you razed this age? What % success did angel give it?
#3  
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Posts: 95/138
(03-Apr-2003 at 04:46)
It most likely was just a streak of bad luck. If you didnt have 100% success calculated by angel there still is a chance to fail. So i you had 0% it is possible for you to have failed those attacks. as for the traditional that succeeded it could have been luck again...maybe he had 70% chance and got through. Also could have been something simple as maybe MP or GP spell running on out the traditional attack was launched giving that person a better chance of success.
#4  
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Posts: 200/285
(03-Apr-2003 at 06:13)


Maybe the one who is doing the traditional attack is an Avian. Avian dont care about fort.
#5  
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Posts: 18/20
(03-Apr-2003 at 06:16)
Right, I understand the conditions. The reason I'm concerned is because all of these were minimized. The target was Vortexed and had protection off.

As for the % chance of success in Angel, I have never failed in over 3 ages using 75%. Maybe I'm just lucky, eh?

Some additional evidence that something is broken with raze. I just did one, assumed protection as there were no mages around for a vortex, had the newest survey showing 0% forts... and it succeeded. BUT, I calculated it as a traditional attack (in other words I didn't click the raze button in Angel, but did a raze as my attack choice). I got "A tough battle took place, but we have managed a victory!".

With the raze button clicked in Angel, I would have had roughly 20% more op than he had dp, which is generally "Our army has emerged victorious!" or something to that effect.

So, like I said it my first post... raze is apparantly adding no op bonus at the moment.

I wasn't asking for WHY or HOW a raze could fail... I'm perfectly aware of these factors. The point is that 3 veteran attackers in my kingdom won't simply "make a mistake" all in a row, like that. One factor not considered...Town Watch... but that is impossible as the target is Human
#6  
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(Posted as tsachi)
Posts: 356/2669
Donated $0.56
(03-Apr-2003 at 06:25)


i razed someone by using 51%, u need more than 50% to break a target, i had 50.2% and i broke someone, i always use amounts between 50.1% to 51%, and i never failed.
#7  
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Posts: 19/20
(03-Apr-2003 at 06:26)
Quote:
i razed someone by using 51%
This age?
#8  
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Posts: 203/285
(03-Apr-2003 at 06:29)


One thing. Did they raze the target using SOM???? Som generally cant be trusted lol. Use CB. Sometime veteran can make this kind of mistake.
#9  
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Posts: 20/20
(03-Apr-2003 at 06:43)
CB, SoM, Survey. Of course... if you have to rely on SoM, get two and use Angel's interpreting utility in the attack calculator.
#10  
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(Posted as ZuZu NA)
Posts: 360/1250
Donated $4.00
(03-Apr-2003 at 09:52)


either:
the person had protection/town watch on, and it ended then another person attacked.

or the person who attacked after was an avian (immune to forts)

something is wrong with your angel

you made a mistake in milatary calc (example, war science, happiness,) or made a mistake when sending the troops out

i've razed 4x this age all successful
#11  
View Public Profile Find more posts by Utopian Muse Add Utopian Muse to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 620/928
(03-Apr-2003 at 10:39)


town watch is only good once

random number factor? also they may of changed the bonous and seen as angle hasn't got this ages figures yet (for attacking) then they might have changed it to stop people razing monarchs and the like to get a win

It's amazing I won. i was running against peace, prosperity, and incumbency -- George W. Bush
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#12  
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Posts: 68/102
(03-Apr-2003 at 18:07)
Quote:
they might have changed it to stop people razing monarchs and the like to get a win
bah. Razing monarchs doesn't get wins unless your kingdom is winning anyway.

But we've had some troubles with Raze also. Our guys are just calculating it as a traditional hit now, and it seems to work fine.

Vincent
Razus Maximus
#13  
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Administrator
Posts: 5090/8414
(15-Apr-2003 at 23:03)


question Re: Raze

Quote:
(Originally posted by o a t h)

Raze --

It seems raze is not getting the offense bonus as it should for some reason. We just had several failed raze attacks where Angel calculated more than enough mod offense to break, but the attack failed. Then immediately after, another guy sent significantly less mod op and succeeded with a traditional attack...

I can only see a couple possibilities for this.
Either Angel is not calculated raze properly, but I checked its figures and it does indeed add up the numbers correctly...
Or raze is not getting the bonus it used to get within Utopia itself. The magnitude of the difference in the calculated raze attack vs the successful traditional suggests that raze is not getting ANY bonus at all currently.

Note that my statement of "significantly less mod op" was on the same target, after accounting for troop losses from the failed raze attempts.

Has anyone else noticed this?
Aerath reported a similar problem to me as well, and I know he can be trusted in doing everything right. However, he suggested that Raze gets reduced effects in intra-kingdom attacks. Was this the case for you?

Brother Green, Utopia Angel creator.
#14  
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Posts: 2699/4687
Donated $5.44
(16-Apr-2003 at 02:03)


In fact, I just failed an intra KD raze. (First failed attack in ages, not assuming a serious amount of booze )

Mod Off sent w/ Raze on : 52k
Mod Off sent w/ Raze off : 47k
Mod Def was 49k

Got the much too weak msg...

I know the info I had was 100% correct. It looks as though Raze gives no more bonuses anymore... (at least, intra KD, not sure about out of KD razes).


Famous for nowty by nature
#15  
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Posts: 1/20
(16-Apr-2003 at 02:12)
I attempted a raze in war against their monarch. I checked everything twice and didn't miss anything. Had 100% chance success with 4% extra offence sent(I think)
I also got message that my forces were much too weak.
#16  
View Public Profile Find more posts by littlejohn Add littlejohn to your Buddy List Reply with Quote
Posts: 175/550
(18-Apr-2003 at 18:59)
my kingdom has noticed over the past age that the raze bonus doesn't seem to exist, intra-kd or not. So, we've stopped checking the box.
#17  
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Posts: 373/557
(18-Apr-2003 at 20:36)


the other possibilty is that at least one of these people was a freak personality and you had either lucky or unlucky result depending on your P.O.V

a friend is someone who will bail you out of jail...
a real good friend however is some one who is sitting next to you and saying"how the fuck did we end up here!"
#18  
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Posts: 401/639
(19-Apr-2003 at 02:35)
Quote:
(Originally posted by Zauper TR)

my kingdom has noticed over the past age that the raze bonus doesn't seem to exist, intra-kd or not. So, we've stopped checking the box.
Last age it was ok, this age I don't know.
#19  
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(Posted as D0mi)
Posts: 170/2339
Donated $13.40
(19-Apr-2003 at 02:46)


when you failed, you may have killed alot of his troops, thus letting the other person get in easier
#20  
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